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matty3
13-08-2006, 04:05 PM
Hey,

I've just come back from the library and I got a great book out on Linux. It includes a bootable trial disc that I'm going to try now.

I think I might install Linux on a seperate partion to Windows and I was just wondering what Linux you would recommend. The author recommends Mandrake but the book got published in 2004.

Thanks in advance,

~Matt :-)

Shortcircuit
13-08-2006, 04:13 PM
To be brutally honest- none, unless you just want to 'play around with it' and not have it as your main opsys.

Also be careful installing Linux, myself at least had Windows stuffed that way.

If you 'must' have a go Ubuntu is supposed to be an easy starter, you might be better to try a live CD first so you don't screw anything up.

Hhel
13-08-2006, 04:22 PM
matty3
Greetings. Some versions of Linux (eg Mepis and Knoppix) can be run as a Live CD. That means you just put them in the CD drive and reset. Each can then run without upsetting your Hard drive partitions. You can experiment, connect to the web and so on. At the end of that experimentation period, when you log off, your computer is back running windows again.

Of those two, (and there may be others) Mepis then allows you to install to a partition on your hard disk. It has a built in partition manager so you can set up the necessary partitions without disturbing Windows. At the end of all of that, you will have the ability to dual boot ie either Windows or Linux.

Asking Linux users which is the best version to install is rather like asking a real car nut what is the best make. You will never get a Ford fan to advocate Holden and viceversa.

I have tried Mandrake (now called Mandriva) but didn't like it. I have also tried two versions of Knoppix - but only as the Live CD's that they are designed to be. A couple of versions of Mepis have been used. Years ago, I tried Corel linux but couldn't make any headway with it.

I have settled on Xandros and am currently using Xandros 3.0 Deluxe. However, a later version X4 was released in June. The download ones of X3 are free (called Open Circulation Edition or OCE). The Deluxe or Business editions have to be paid for. I now have no Windows on my computer and don't miss it at all.

If you have a look on Trademe, and search for any version eg Mepis, you will find a guy in Palmy advertising heaps of varieties. I have dealt with him and no problems. You can for example, get Xandros 3.02 OCE for $5 post free from him. But he has plenty there to choose from.

Happy hunting.

Jim

Chrisn
13-08-2006, 04:27 PM
Why pay for linux? its supposed to be free you can order copys for free from http://shipit.ubuntu.com , http://shipit.kubuntu.com , http://shipit.edubuntu.com and yes they do send to NZ :D

Jen
13-08-2006, 04:38 PM
This may be of help as well: What distribution will suit me (http://faqf1.net.nz/index.php?title=What_is_Linux#What_distribution_wi ll_suit_me).

I also would not install the library book CD edition, as it is quite out of date now. You should be able to find more recent Linux books in the library, or they can order them in for you.

vinref
13-08-2006, 04:40 PM
Hey,

I've just come back from the library and I got a great book out on Linux. It includes a bootable trial disc that I'm going to try now.

I think I might install Linux on a seperate partion to Windows and I was just wondering what Linux you would recommend. The author recommends Mandrake but the book got published in 2004.

Thanks in advance,

~Matt :-)

Go for a distribution that has very good documentation and a large, active and helpful community. You will need them. These requirements all fit Ubuntu. It also appears to be very beginner-friendly in its approach. It also has a solid basis - Debian. It is therefore very stable and secure.

Just don't go thinking that Linux is Windows and expect to do things exactly as you would in Windows. You will be setting yourself up for frustration and failure. But if you persist, you will find it rewarding.

jupiter1
13-08-2006, 04:42 PM
Hi
I tried 2 live cd versions but found them to be sloooow and not easy to use.
I then got ( a highly recomended ) version of Fedors 4 and over a couple of days managed to completly trash my windows 2k install.
I know stick with the devil I know until I get an old spare machine.
Good luck, you may need it !
Cheers,

Myth
13-08-2006, 04:49 PM
Ubuntu has one thing going for it.... marketing
It has been marketed as THE replacement to Windows (although personally I think its crap). Xandros makes a better replacement IMHO
But, I would follow the above suggestions and get a LiveCD to play round with first. Last time I looked, Mepis looked great and responded better. And its a LiveCD too :). It is kinda based on Ubuntu (mainly the packages (applications you download and install with the help of the Package Manager)), but I think a marked improvement on it.

But... each to their own...

matty3
13-08-2006, 05:00 PM
Because the guy in the book reccomends Mandrake I might have a look at that and just see.

Thanks for all your help,

~matt :-)

Mackin_NZ
13-08-2006, 05:29 PM
Because the guy in the book reccomends Mandrake I might have a look at that and just see.

Thanks for all your help,

~matt :-)

Good move, Mandriva (formerly Mandrake) is my favourite Linux disto. I'm currently running 2006.0 and 2007.0 will be out in a few weeks.

You can order the "Power Pack" version which comes with all the non-free license stuff preconfigured for you from www.lsl.com.au. For about $35 + shipping you can get the Power Pack DVD and an errata DVD with all the updates released since 2006.0. Saves you a big download.

Once you get used to Linux you'll love it. Linux Rocks!

Twelvevolts
13-08-2006, 07:59 PM
Knoppix is soooo cool - and you can run it off a CD (or DVD for some editions). Otherwise Fedora gets my vote right now.

matty3
13-08-2006, 08:33 PM
I'm actually going to try out quite a few and see what one I like best. I think I might go with Mandrake though.

~Matt :-)

P.S. Thanks for all your replies - 2 pages!!!

Murray P
14-08-2006, 12:15 AM
Matty, there is only one, I repeat only one distribution for you to use, the one that is currently installed.

That's the beauty of Linux, many distros to suit a particular level of competency or type of computing and most, if not all, down-loadable for free.

My personal fav is Mepis. I agree with Tazz, it's superior to Ubuntu because of superior hardware detection, stability, and good choice of apps. It pretty much works out of the box, unless you have some odd hardware.

I would also agree that you should start off with a distro that allows you to run it as a live CD. You'll need enough RAM and reasonably modern/fast CD/DVD to run it at a reasonable clip. It will never run as fast as an installed OS though (well maybe if you have enough RAM to set up a humungous RAM drive).

Please, don't install an old distro from a book. If you're going to experiement, ie. trying multiple distros, anything more than running a live CD, use at the very minimum a seperate hard drive to install to.

Oh, and, depending on the distro and what level of competency in it you achieve, Linux is more than capable of being a replacement OS for any other OS, including windows. The naysayers' are only talking from personal experience, which says it all really. :lol:

matty3
14-08-2006, 05:54 PM
Matty, there is only one, I repeat only one distribution for you to use, the one that is currently installed.

What do you mean?


Please, don't install an old distro from a book. If you're going to experiement, ie. trying multiple distros, anything more than running a live CD, use at the very minimum a seperate hard drive to install to.

The CD I have is just a Live CD. You can't install it from the disc I don't think.

Thanks for your help.

~Matt :-)

TideMan
14-08-2006, 08:52 PM
Whichever distro you choose, you need to commit to persevering with it.
I'm a Linux user of 4 months now and I'm slowly becoming comfortable enough with it to solve my own (simple) problems.
Like Hhel, I use Xandros and the user forum has been extremely helpful in sorting out the more troublesome ones.
The most difficult thing, I've found, is installing programs. There's lots of open source (free) stuff out there, but many of them are not easy to install.
Unlike Windows, there are several versions of Linux and you have to find the right flavour (e.g., RPM or Debian) for your distro. As well as that, you have to resolve all the other programs the one you're installing needs for it to run.
Also, unlike Windows, it's often easier to download the source code (usually a .tar or .tar.gz file) and compile and link it yourself. This can be surprisingly easy if the author has included a script that does all the work.

One thing I found really excellent was the way Xandros set up my Internet and LAN (using Samba). It was totally transparent and I've never had to touch it. I turned the machine on and instantly had access to the Internet as well as all the Win XP machines in our LAN. And it's totally reliable (unlike the Win XP equivalent which for reasons unknown goes AWOL from time to time and says it can see anybody else).

We've got an old machine that needs a brain transplant (mobo + CPU) because of bad caps and when it comes back from surgery we'll probably just install Xandros on it and not bother about Windows at all.

Hhel
14-08-2006, 09:45 PM
Tideman,
Unlike you, I have one username here and a different one on Xandros forums. (You remember that I emailed you the other day about someone wanting help with "f2c"

My signature here will make the final link (as if you haven't worked it out already).

Jim

matty3
15-08-2006, 04:02 PM
Okay, I've downloaded Mandriva and then I put the file onto a cd. I booted up the computer and then it puts up this console thing and I just want to know how do I get to like the main interface - desktop.

Thanks for your help.

~Matt :-)

Jen
15-08-2006, 05:43 PM
You downloaded the Mandriva One (http://www.mandriva.com/en/community/mandrivaone) version?

Never seen this one boot up, but didn't it give you any prompts what to enter to start it? What does the page you end up on actually say?

dolby digital
15-08-2006, 06:13 PM
To be brutally honest- none, unless you just want to 'play around with it' and not have it as your main opsys.

Also be careful installing Linux, myself at least had Windows stuffed that way.

If you 'must' have a go Ubuntu is supposed to be an easy starter, you might be better to try a live CD first so you don't screw anything up.
Come on SC, you really want to suggest SUSE. I know you do. :D

I you won't, then I will.... SUSE is a nice distro. I use it as a desktop distro but tend to use Mandrake/Fedora as a server distro. My advice is try some live cd's before you commit to installing one. SUSE has a live cd/dvd.

TGoddard
15-08-2006, 07:19 PM
I've been using SuSE for about 1 1/2 years now and am now on 10.1 (started with 9.2). I've found it to be simple to install and use, sufficiently flexible for 'power user' needs, secure and quite pretty whether you choose KDE or GNOME (I like both).

Shortcircuit
15-08-2006, 09:55 PM
Come on SC, you really want to suggest SUSE. I know you do. :D

I you won't, then I will.... SUSE is a nice distro. I use it as a desktop distro but tend to use Mandrake/Fedora as a server distro. My advice is try some live cd's before you commit to installing one. SUSE has a live cd/dvd.

OK, I'll take the bait :D

Try SuSE... and you won't go back to Windows, because you won't have any Windows left :)

Seriously guys... and girls, I sit here and listen to all this Linux is wonderful talk and it's about as much fun as talking to someone who owns a Mac.

In the real world Linux, or at least any form of the half dozen distros I've tried, just doesn't cut it compared to Windows. I have a lot to grumble about with XP and Microsoft in general, but the functionality, compatibility and yes- ease of use is light years beyond Linux.

Computerwise, I have never felt so crippled since I tried to achieve anything using Linux.

There ain't no use having a decent LCD monitor if you can't adjust the colour settings, there ain't no use having a decent Video card because functionality is nobbled, there ain't no use having having a DVD recorder when you can only record CDs, there ain't no use trying to do any pro graphics stuff because the Gimp doesn't cut it, there ain't no use having a top end (well known brand) wireless keyboard and mouse because they aren't supported (and according to the makers never will be), there ain't no use having a standard wired keyboard because the keys are switched around... the list is kind of endless, so I'll stop there.

Flame all you like people or just stick your head in the sand- I've tried Linux (more than once and more than 1 distro). It's a good solid opsys if you want to do basic things and that's about it. Anything more is just asking for grief and frustration :(

Jen
15-08-2006, 10:31 PM
OK, I'll take the bait :D
I will too then :p


In the real world Linux, or at least any form of the half dozen distros I've tried, just doesn't cut it compared to Windows. I have a lot to grumble about with XP and Microsoft in general, but the functionality, compatibility and yes- ease of use is light years beyond Linux.Every person is different to what they need from an OS. For me Linux is just what I expect and want. Everything works as well. Mind you, I only buy peripheral hardware from vendors that support Linux, my way of showing my appreciation for providing this service.


Computerwise, I have never felt so crippled since I tried to achieve anything using Linux.Window users are not supposed to be able to just use Linux and figure it all out. They must start from scratch again, a bit hard for some people to understand and work through and this will be the biggest stumbling block on whether they will suceed or not. I had it easy, didn't know much about Windows to start with. I had never used DOS or any command line stuff before in Windows apart from the odd fdisk venture. I can now do stuff in Linux without much effort, yet Windows still baffles me. You ought to see me trying to use cmd.exe in Windows at work and navigate around. I'm completely useless. :lol: Infact, the less you know about Windows, the easier it will be.


There ain't no use having a decent LCD monitor if you can't adjust the colour settings, there ain't no use having a decent Video card because functionality is nobbled, there ain't no use having having a DVD recorder when you can only record CDs, there ain't no use trying to do any pro graphics stuff because the Gimp doesn't cut it, there ain't no use having a top end (well known brand) wireless keyboard and mouse because they aren't supported (and according to the makers never will be), there ain't no use having a standard wired keyboard because the keys are switched around... the list is kind of endless, so I'll stop there.I have a very nice LCD which works perfectly, and installing the nVidia drivers gives me all sorts of funky display tweakes via their control panel. My DVD recorder works great without having to install any additional program to use it first. K3b rocks! Also plays all my video DVDs too. Wireless keyboards/Mice should work fine. My mouse does. You may not get all the mulitfunctional keys working as it is up to the manufacturer to provide the source or drivers for Linux. Again, buy products from manufacturers that support Linux.


Flame all you like people or just stick your head in the sand- I've tried Linux (more than once and more than 1 distro). It's a good solid opsys if you want to do basic things and that's about it. Anything more is just asking for grief and frustration :(Again, it is not for everyone. People should use whatever OS suits their requirements. Linux is more than basic, it goes far beyond what you can achieve in Windows when it comes to fine tuning and complete control over your system (if that is what you want).

I can't think of any reason why I would want to use Windows at home. I have a hard drive here with WinXP installed on it, but that hasn't been booted for nearly two years now - that must say something.

I actually started with SuSE 8.1 and installed it without ever seeing Linux before. Only had seen a couple of screenshots, but a couple of users on PF1 were using it and it got me curious. I then moved onto Red Hat 8.0 and bought a book on it so that I could learn as I went. I have never looked back and I am still learning. :)

Linux is obviously not for you, and you did not enjoy the experience. Fair enough. Other people will not have the same experience you did, so for them it will be different, new and functional for their needs.

bob_doe_nz
15-08-2006, 10:50 PM
Miss Banny Pants not know use command prompt in Windows?
GASP! :eek:

Jen
15-08-2006, 10:55 PM
Miss Banny Pants not know use command prompt in Windows?
GASP! :eek:Yes, so it is just as well the main application I use at work runs on a Unix system :thumbs:


Sorry for the topic hijack Matty3 :)

Myth
16-08-2006, 03:20 AM
Again, it is not for everyone. People should use whatever OS suits their requirements. Linux is more than basic, it goes far beyond what you can achieve in Windows when it comes to fine tuning and complete control over your system (if that is what you want). I will definitely second that. Like Jen I have a fully operational desktop OS hooked up to a network with a local printer accessible from all windows machines on the network. File sharing is enabled too :) My dvd player/burner works fine, as does the Ti4200. Have sound, can play mp3, ogg, and even wma (don't ask). Can even play some games (UT, Quake, NWN...)

I started with FC3, went on to FC4, and was Chilling_Silence (chilly willy to some of you :p) who got me curious about Gentoo. It was hard (Gentoo likes the command line interface, but you can do most stuff graphically), but when you succeed... damn what a feeling :D
Incidentally, I used to dual boot (with XP Pro), but I wiped my windows partition about 3 or 4 months ago (deliberately). Had no real use for it and it was using space :D

But ... each to their own... no flaming coming from this corner

Shortcircuit
16-08-2006, 01:19 PM
I'm so happy that you are all happy with Linux and that's fine.

I'm just sad that the 'blinkers are on', either from my side or the other way around.

experiences with SuSE:

Nvidia drivers:

In XP complete colour control including brightness/contrast/gamma/digital vibrance/sharpness in all channels inc. RGB separately. Also options for diff AGP/anitaliasing etc.

In Suse limited to brightness/contrast in total with no options for separate channel correction (from memory... and I'd love to know how Jen got everything to work!)

Monitor, Samsung digital:

In XP option of monitor calibration GUI

In Suse 'basic' non GUI with limited adjustments, not possible to save adjustments between boots.

Keyboard and mouse, Logitech wireless:

In XP full control of all keys and buttons with options to assign keys/buttons.

In Suse not supported at all.

Also in Suse 'standard' keyboards swap key assignments so that keys such as @ and " are reversed.

Printer, Minolta laser:

In XP GUI with options including 'supply status'.

In Suse nothing but 'Cups'.

M/board:

In XP options to overclock through GUI direct from Windows etc

In Suse nothing.


All of these parts are 'new' and up to date, I see no point in purchasing parts or peripherals to 'thank manufacturers for their support of linux' if they don't have the features or usability of 'Windows ready' components.

Strange that we have two IT guys who both have a dislike of Windows and run our Linux servers etc, but have both said to me "Don't bother with Linux, the learning curve is too steep and it will never do what Windows can do as a desk top."

I just think someone is missing out here, and after trying Linux I don't think it is me. So Jen, I had a 'bad experience' with Linux... the burning question is- should I have had a bad experience or is it par for the course?

Myth
16-08-2006, 03:26 PM
the burning question is- should I have had a bad experience or is it par for the course?Most users new to linux have one of those. I know I had a few.
Its like learning to ride a bike, inevitably you will fall off, its up to you whether you get back on and have another go

Shortcircuit
16-08-2006, 03:48 PM
Most users new to linux have one of those. I know I had a few.
Its like learning to ride a bike, inevitably you will fall off, its up to you whether you get back on and have another go


That's a relief, I thought that I had suddenly become incompetent :D

I may be too battered and bruised to 'get back on the bike'... but maybe if I buy some training wheels :)

PS, also meant to add that, unlike Jen who just plays DVDs, I tried to record to DVD under SuSe using (I think) kb3, but it refused, it would record to CD though :thumbs:

Jen
16-08-2006, 05:30 PM
I may be too battered and bruised to 'get back on the bike'... but maybe if I buy some training wheels :)Good on you if you do decide to take another look at a future time. You may wish to check out removable drive caddys so that you can completely separate the two OSs for extra peace of mind. I might also suggest that you just install and explore for starters without leaping in and trying to compile applications from source on day one or other challenging activities. :p


PS, also meant to add that, unlike Jen who just plays DVDs, I tried to record to DVD under SuSe using (I think) kb3, but it refused, it would record to CD though :thumbs:No, I burn DVDs too without problems. You might need to run the K3b wizard to set permissions etc if it seemed to ignore your burner.

Re the bad experience, it depends on what you do. You only ever hear about when things go wrong on forums etc, and rarely does someone post saying how straight forward it was. Any OS can give a person a bad experience. My record is four repeated installations in less than two days due to some, um, creative tinkering on my behalf :rolleyes:

BoboTheClown
17-08-2006, 07:53 AM
My subjective 2p

Try SLED 10 (downloadable from Novell), the Gnome 3D desktop is quite enjoyable providing you have a 3D capable GPU. Alternatively go for the OpenSuse 10.1 version.

To update these Suse products are relatively painless, there is a package manager called Smart Package Manager, you can use the version for OpenSuse 10.1 on SLED 10 as well. ( http://labix.org/smart ). It also supports other distros, so well worth the look.

Although I have cut my teeth on RedHat I found the desktops in Mandriva and Fedora unrefined compared to the polished Suse desktops versions of KDE and Gnome. Remember, this is only my opinion, 99.995% Linux users will likely disagree with me.

Using Samba I have managed to fully integrate my Linux system with the Window$ network I have at home, the MS machines can even print to my shared USB printer. Wireless with WEP keys works 100% on my laptop, so too with a bit of fiddling does my Vodafone 3G card.

But in the end it is up to you to try them until you find a distro you like, it boils down to your personal taste and specfic needs. An example, I simply don't like Ubuntu due to it's colour schemes, brown just doesn't do it for me.

Enjoy playing, remember, Linux is a voyage to satisfy your curiosity to discover alternative options, not a destination.

dolby digital
17-08-2006, 07:20 PM
Although I have cut my teeth on RedHat I found the desktops in Mandriva and Fedora unrefined compared to the polished Suse desktops versions of KDE and Gnome. Remember, this is only my opinion, 99.995% Linux users will likely disagree with me.


I tend to agree with you. When I first tried SuSE 9.1 I thought that this looks really polished. I didn't come with the compiler for some strange reason so I had to download it, but other than that its been good although I still use Windows for my camera.