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View Full Version : Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 (free now)



beama
15-07-2006, 07:03 PM
Microsoft Virtual pc 2004 is now free and can be downloaded here (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx)
The installer says that win2k and winxp pro are the supported install platforms but Im using it on xp home with no ill effects so far.

zqwerty
15-07-2006, 09:29 PM
Can you give a brief description of how you are using this program?

Nermal
15-07-2006, 10:27 PM
Is it only the Windows version that's free?

beama
16-07-2006, 08:00 AM
Can you give a brief description of how you are using this program?

The best advice is I can give is read the intro pages that the link I gave goes to There is a flash prestitation that expalins its functions far better than I could here.

Its microsofts version of vmware. From my brief look at it, it may even allow virtual machines created in vmware to used, but I havent tried this yet.


Is it only the Windows version that's free?

The supported install platforms are xp pro and win2k but I have installed it (with some objection from the installer) on xp home but some functions are disabled.

As with any software of this type before trying it out back up your valuable data, as one mistake could mean a reinstall

Ill know more about it when Ive had a chance to try it out at work.

somebody
16-07-2006, 09:16 AM
VMWare Player and VMWare Server have also been released as free software now.

Morgenmuffel
17-07-2006, 02:00 PM
Thanks for the link, I have played around with Qemu and VmWare player for most of my emulation needs, and Virtual PC seems to allow me to play with some of the O/s that i couldn't get to work in the other emulators, finally got to try out BeOS Max, and it was really responsive (I had assumed it would be sluggish)
Ironically I had problems testing out M$ operating systems, got to track down a copy of DOS 6 and MS wfw 3.1 (and a copy of microsoft BOB, to see if it really was that Bad)

Cheers

mejobloggs
17-07-2006, 03:54 PM
It looks really cool, I just can't figure out why I would use it :(

Could you run linux on it, so that if you wanted to use linux, you wouldn't have to reboot?

linw
17-07-2006, 04:17 PM
That's interesting info. Thanks for the headsup.

Neil McC
17-07-2006, 04:41 PM
It looks really cool, I just can't figure out why I would use it :(

Could you run linux on it, so that if you wanted to use linux, you wouldn't have to reboot?

That's what I was wondering too.And which is the easiest one to try first!!

beama
17-07-2006, 05:54 PM
Installed 98se no problems even managed to install a Novell Client and login to a Novell network.
Installing ubuntu now let you know how it goes

btw
If installing a MS OS such as 98se the virtual machine will use the host OS drivers . Well thats want I found with the 98 install and no 98 didnt have the drivers for the machine native to OS.

mejobloggs
18-07-2006, 12:12 PM
Wohoo, this thing is great fun. Apparantly VMWare is better though? <shrug> just what i'm told.

Nermal
18-07-2006, 12:40 PM
The supported install platforms are xp pro and win2k but I have installed it (with some objection from the installer) on xp home but some functions are disabled.

I'll take that as a Yes.

Master_Frost
18-07-2006, 12:48 PM
It looks really cool, I just can't figure out why I would use it :(

Could you run linux on it, so that if you wanted to use linux, you wouldn't have to reboot?


If you wanted to test something like new beta drivers for example without screwing up your PC, you could use a virtual machine to do so (if it screws it up no big deal)

Software developers and even network admins often use virtual machines.

mejobloggs
18-07-2006, 12:59 PM
Can you stick Mac OS on a virtual machine?

SurferJoe46
18-07-2006, 01:22 PM
A little lost here...got the prgm dnldd, and I tried to install 98SE...it mounted the drive ok, and then it asked if I wanted to use the cd-rom, cd-rom assist or boot from hd.

I said to use cd-rom, and then it went to format the c drive which is my root disk.

I hit the kill switch and rebooted into XP all well and good...but what did I do wrong?

Is it just going to make a partition on the c drive or is it going to remove my XP and re-write 98SE to the c drive?

Do I need to leave the cd w/98SE in the cd drive to make it work or can I actually install 98SE in a new partition?

Confused, to say the least.

mejobloggs
18-07-2006, 01:56 PM
SurferJoe, it goes like this....

First you create a virtual machine

Then it creates a .vhd (virtual hard drive), which is stored as a file on your pc.

So, yours might be win98.vhd sitting in a folder you specify. Your virtual machine will treat this as a harddrive.

So when it says its going to format c:...

You are running that virtual machine, which is really a seperate pc. That pc sees it has one drive, and its called c:, and so it will format it, and install win98 on.

All that happens inside your virtual hard drive, so nothing gets affected on your pc, only that file you created.

Not sure if I explained that properly.. Someone else here can clean up my mess ;)

SurferJoe46
18-07-2006, 02:09 PM
Just to run all the options, is there a way to use a different (away from the root drive) hdd for the v/m?

I know Windows likes "c" drives for accessing programs, but is it possible to use, say my "K" drive for it?

...or is this nothing to worry about?

Remember that I lost a couple of hdds to grub installer b4...just a little leery here that's all!

mejobloggs
18-07-2006, 02:41 PM
The virtual machine is a seperate machine. If you went on my pc and formatted C, it wouldn't format C on your pc.

Nermal
18-07-2006, 02:43 PM
Can you stick Mac OS on a virtual machine?

No, and since the Mac version doesn't seem to be free, you can't do vice versa either.

mejobloggs
18-07-2006, 02:50 PM
Is the only reason because of the CPU? Because Mac OS needs uh... a mac cpu? (Yes, I admit, I know nothing about macs)

I read something about Intel's being able to run mac and windows. But I have AMD, so no matter.

Graham L
18-07-2006, 03:04 PM
You can emulate the Mac OSs. You could run the new Mac OS versions made for "Intel 86" processors on a virtual "Intel" (or AMD) processor.

All Macintosh OSs up to the very latest have been compiled to run on non-"Intel 86" processors. The machine code is not the same.

Nermal
18-07-2006, 03:11 PM
Is the only reason because of the CPU? Because Mac OS needs uh... a mac cpu? (Yes, I admit, I know nothing about macs)

I read something about Intel's being able to run mac and windows. But I have AMD, so no matter.

Mac OS needs a Mac. While the latest ones do have Intel CPUs, they're still not generic PCs.

As mentioned above, it's sometimes possible to get Mac OS running, but it's not licensed for use on non-Apple hardware.

SurferJoe46
18-07-2006, 03:38 PM
The virtual machine is a seperate machine. If you went on my pc and formatted C, it wouldn't format C on your pc.

I must've taken my stupid pills tonight... :D I still have a bad time trying to understand just where the v/m lives.

A yes or no on the following questions will help:


Is the v/m c drive really on the root (C) disk?

Do I need to have the cd in as a "live" cd to make it (98SE) run?

Is the v/m not like grub or vice-versa?

Will I be able to "see" the v/m in My Computer?



What acctually gets formatted...a virtual c drive or the real c-drive?




As you can see..I am still very lost here by the terminologies and not wanting to repeat the blunder by grub for KUBUNTU again. I just got all that repaired.

Scouse
18-07-2006, 03:51 PM
Hi mejobloggs. Re: The virtual machine is a seperate machine. If you went on my pc and formatted C, it wouldn't format C on your pc. What? I'm trying really hard to follow this thread.... but what?

beama
18-07-2006, 04:05 PM
Installed 98se no problems even managed to install a Novell Client and login to a Novell network.
Installing ubuntu now let you know how it goes


ubuntu took ages to install the xserver didnt like being run virtually could be a distro thing though.
One thing I have noticed THIS program is ram hungry, first time Ive seen a paging file error meassage on this machine.

OH well xp install next

mejobloggs
18-07-2006, 05:18 PM
Ok, someone else explain, heh.

All my knowledge comes from my 5 minutes of using it. Didn't even manage to finish installing ubuntu cause it took so long.

I thought memory useage for this was suprisingly low.

I think when you install ubuntu, you have to choose the 'use safe graphics' boot option to make it work properly. After you have booted and isntalled, you can then install your nvidia drivers or whatever.

I want to get Safari on one of these somehow.

Morgenmuffel
18-07-2006, 06:11 PM
For an unofficial list of working O/Ss see here

http://vpc.visualwin.com/




Is the v/m c drive really on the root (C) disk?

Do I need to have the cd in as a "live" cd to make it (98SE) run?

Is the v/m not like grub or vice-versa?

Will I be able to "see" the v/m in My Computer?





What virtual PC does is that it creates a vitual computer, it pretends to be a brand new virginal computer that you can install software on, to install the software it needs too create a virtual harddrive on your machine which is just a FILE (.vhd file) on your normal harddrive
When Virtual PC goes to format "C:\" it is only formatting the contents of that vhd FILE, NOT your real C:\, it should have no effect on your machine

Virtual PC only acts on that .VHD file, all its activities are done on that file

You won't be able to see the V/M in "my computer", but you will be able to see the .VHD file that contains it, (if you use VMware you actually write ti the virtual harddrive from your normal real computer)

this is also a good explanation

http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/vpcfaq/VPCFAQ6-InstallingGuestOS.html





I found installing Ubuntu under vmware slightly longer than normal but it seemed to run well, mind you that was installing it in vmware player using the workround that was out 4-5 months ago

Morgenmuffel
18-07-2006, 06:28 PM
I want to get Safari on one of these somehow.
Assuming you mean the Mac OSX browser

Then this might be of interest

http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/about.html

It isn't very advanced but some of the screenshots look promising

TGoddard
19-07-2006, 02:53 PM
One advantage of virtual machines is the ability to take snapshots or copies of the state of the hard drive, perform a potentially dangerous operation (such as starting Internet Explorer), and have to option to revert to the snapshot if problems occur.

TGoddard
19-07-2006, 02:57 PM
People might also like to look at Xen. On Intel processors with VT support (including the new dual core ones) it can run all x86 operating systems including Windows at near native speed. AMD will be releasing their equivalent towards the end of the year (Xen will support that too). Without hardware supported full virtualisation, Xen can only run Linux and some BSD variants with a kernel patch (this comes with some distros such as SUSE).

SurferJoe46
19-07-2006, 03:20 PM
OK...the scarey part is over and the install is happening as I type this...of course, it's happening to my Dell with UBUNTU and XP-Pro.

It sure is slow installing, though! :dogeye:

I am not going to mess this puter up.

mejobloggs
19-07-2006, 04:42 PM
If I install my Windows XP into a virtual machine, that's going to treat it as a seperate machine right? So uh.. MS is going to lock me out or something when I try to connect my pc and the virtual pc to windows update?

SurferJoe46
19-07-2006, 05:36 PM
Well...got 98SE all in and running...it's cool and I used the full screen mode too...looks like it oughtta!

Interesting question there Mejobloggs....I got to M$ for info with the 98SE install v/m and I had no troubles with them at all...of course, I inserted the true key for that version of 98SE too! (I don't think M$ really cares about 98SE now anyway!)

It went online all by itself without much help from me, and I'm on the same LAN as the original system uses.

I also installed Firefox while I was there in 98SE v/m, and it works too!

Now I might try 2000 or even ME just for kicks.

BTW: How can I expand the virtual file size? I need a little more room to install 98SE SP1.2.5 from a third party. :confused:

Shortcircuit
19-07-2006, 07:43 PM
I am not going to mess this puter up.

Oh yes, that's what I said doing a dual install of XP and Suse Surferjoe... I now have more or less new comp and I'm WAY to scared to try virtual PC.

You try it first :D

mejobloggs
19-07-2006, 10:05 PM
Uhh... With virtual PC, your new pc will be even safer.

It means that anything you might be tempted to isntall, but looks dodgy, you can install on a virtual pc and give it a test drive to see if its ok. If its not ok, then who cares, just don't save the virtual pc session, and it will be reset back to your perfectly clean install.

Rob99
19-07-2006, 11:26 PM
BTW: How can I expand the virtual file size? I need a little more room to install 98SE SP1.2.5 from a third party. :confused:
Your Virtual PC is stored in a folder on your hard drive, which you probally already know, when you add to it it will grow.

VMware is great for learning networking, you can have 2 or 3 virtual PC's running at the same time, just clicking from one to the other adjusting the settings untill you have them all talking to each other.

I use it mainly for trying out versions of Linux, I also have Win98 as a machine to load up just incase I have to do a walkthrough with someone over the phone.

Chilling_Silence
20-07-2006, 12:50 AM
Just remember all:

Virtualization and Emulation are quite different!

This might be a good place for many to start:
http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=compare+virtualization+software+with+emul ation&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Second link down gives this read from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization

SurferJoe46
20-07-2006, 02:00 AM
98SE is running very well...I forgot how ugly it was...nyuck, nyuck! :eek:

Now I'm gonna try to upgrade to ME....yup!

So far everything works...I just want to know if it remembers these changes and installs I am making............hmmmmm

Reboot will tell all.

Another question: I read the sites that Chill sent, and I still wonder if there's any chance of infections via malware and trojans etc to the rest of my system as I don't have all the security updates yet for 98SE

So far, there are no problems with the emulator...just the ugliness of 98SE brings back memories of an IBM ThinkPad w/266 processor! Yuck!

mejobloggs
20-07-2006, 08:25 AM
I have heard that some people use a virtual machine for 'sandbox' internet browsing. Where they have a virtual machine that has no connections to the other pc's on the network (except for maybe 1 folder where they can save stuff to their real pc), and they can safely thrash around the internet.

How would I go about setting up one of these?

Chilling_Silence
20-07-2006, 08:46 AM
Nope, not really...

Most of the time when setup I believe the virtualization uses NAT by default, you can setup networking between both your real OS and the virtualized one. Just setup a normal network share :)

mejobloggs: I know a fair few people who go online only from a virtualized Linux desktop, because they know its much safer....

Prescott
20-07-2006, 09:11 AM
Now I'm gonna try to upgrade to ME....yup!


Don't upgrade to ME, its a terrible version of Windows. Win98 is far better...

SurferJoe46
20-07-2006, 12:35 PM
Don't upgrade to ME, its a terrible version of Windows. Win98 is far better...

OH....I know it is a dumb thing to do.....just the reason I want to try it.....I want to see if it's as bad as I remember it.....

Also have 2000Pro but it is so closely related to XP it wouldn't be much fun to punish myself with it.

But I DO agree with you about ME. ;)

stu161204
20-07-2006, 12:44 PM
Now I'm gonna try to upgrade to ME....yup!

Win me has a system resource bug, i.e. it does not know how to free up system resources & you will have to reboot it more often then 98 SE (I know I use to like win me, now I like xp :))

PS: try Win 2000 as well :)

stu161204
20-07-2006, 12:47 PM
Also have 2000Pro but it is so closely related to XP it wouldn't be much fun to punish myself with it.

Try it & you will see it not really that closely related to XP (But I could be wrong, as I have never really used 2000 pro.)

Morgenmuffel
20-07-2006, 01:48 PM
Also have 2000Pro but it is so closely related to XP it wouldn't be much fun to punish myself with it.


Definitely do it,
then you can install Virtual PC in your virtual windows 2000
and then install something in that (try 98)
then install QEMU into windows 98
and then put Damn small linux in Qemu,
and do your websurfing in damn small linux,and your computer will be 100% safe (at the speed it will be operating any virusses will die of old age before they can effect your machine

and if you get really bored you could probably install qemu in damn small linux and run Dos 6 with windows 3.11 on it

That should you keep you out of mischief for a while :thumbs:

Sadly enough I was at one stage running a virtual PC ina Virtual PC using vmware and Qemu (or perhaps Vmware and vware or Qemu and qemu),
there is a version of damn small linux that come already installed in qemu, so you just download the whole damn thing and run it and you have linux running on your windows desktop

SurferJoe46
20-07-2006, 02:33 PM
Makes me wanna ask...which came first...the chicken or the egg?

mejobloggs
20-07-2006, 04:43 PM
What are peoples opinions on Qemu vs VMWare vs MS Virtual PC vs Whatever else?

beama
20-07-2006, 06:03 PM
Well Im finished my testing and now I have a dual boot virtual pc (xpro/red hat 8)
why would you want to do this, well all Ill say is I won the bet :lol:

Ive used both vmware workstation and now the microsoft virtual machine and im not willing to rate one above the other I like them both

zqwerty
20-07-2006, 08:19 PM
@beama

Good on you mate, I like a pioneering spirit.

dolby digital
20-07-2006, 09:19 PM
Just downloaded Virtual PC 2004 from Microsoft. Thanks Bill :D

mejobloggs
20-07-2006, 10:08 PM
I found VMWare Player much faster for installing Ubuntu. VMWare is not so easy to use though.

Morgenmuffel
21-07-2006, 09:42 AM
I found VMWare Player much faster for installing Ubuntu. VMWare is not so easy to use though.

Similar to mejobloggs, vmware player was more difficult to use, but then it wasn't designed for installing O/S into, it was created for running the images created with VMware server, (although you can actually install O/Ss in VMWare player), i think VMWare server is however as userfriendly as virtual PC, although i have yet to actually try it myself

mejobloggs
22-07-2006, 10:51 AM
No, I have tried VMWare server as well.

If you want:
Performance, then get VMWare Server
Ease of use, then get MS Virtual PC

But maybe it's just cause I havn't fiddled with both of them enough ;)

jcr1
22-07-2006, 05:09 PM
Downloaded it last night and installed Debian Sarge on it today. It works fine :thumbs:

SurferJoe46
23-07-2006, 06:48 AM
I got a list of what does or what doesn't work on Microsoft V/PC

......might be helpful for youse guys.


http://vpc.visualwin.com/

techiekid
23-07-2006, 10:18 AM
What are peoples opinions on Qemu vs VMWare vs MS Virtual PC vs Whatever else?

Virtual Pc seems quite good from the few hours of emperimental stuff (it crashed knoppix though)
I HATE QUEMU IT IS STUPID AND HARD TO USE
and i have not tried vmware

does anyone know of a good free os that i can use to connect to the broadband with but is not linux (in vpc that is)