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Shortcircuit
01-07-2006, 06:44 PM
As part of my master plan to get rid of MS I'm thinking of installing Suse 10.1 as dual boot with WinXP for a start.

I tried out a 'live' version of I think Linspire a year or so ago and hated it, but after the MS WGA thing I can wait no more :mad:

Does anyone have any heads-up re Suse, any things to watch out for, or problems?... even any better suggestions than Suse.

My main reasons for looking at Suse is because

It'll make use of my AMDs 64bit capability

Supposedly has support for a good range of drivers

Has a 'windows-like' GUI etc.

TGoddard
01-07-2006, 08:10 PM
I'm using Suse 10.1 on this computer and have been using Suse for just over a year now. I experimented with Fedora Core and Mandrake (now Mandriva) and tried Fedora Core 5 again recently but have found Suse to be an excellent distribution for my normal OS.

Although hardware support is always a little tricky as some manufacturers produce only Windows drivers, I've had better hardware support for most things in Suse than out of the box in Windows XP. I don't know whether this is the same in the 64 bit version as I've only used the 32 bit one.

Suse is also being worked on very actively. Between 10 and 10.1 I noticed quite substantial improvements to hardware and laptop support.

Switching operating system can be a challenge. I personally just installed Suse 9.2 the day I got my own computer and never looked back, but your mileage may vary. Once you get used to it, you'll wonder how Windows users cope without a proper package management system, with constant reboots and with only a crippled console!

Shortcircuit
01-07-2006, 09:12 PM
Thanks for that,

I'd read a few reviews by Linux users and they seemed to swing from great to a disappointment (and a few thought 9.2-3 was way better)

Also from what I've read there is not much improvement from 32bit to 64bit, but it seems stupid not to use the 64 bit version as I have a 64bit CPU.

Looks like I'll have to whack in an ethernet card for my router and from what I've read the nVidia drivers are a bit of a pain.

Ah well, here goes a 2 gig d/load :eek:

TGoddard
01-07-2006, 10:15 PM
I ordered my copy from http://www.linuxcdmall.com/. $25 is much better for me at the moment than waiting for days (it would exceed my data cap and download most of it at 64k).

SurferJoe46
02-07-2006, 03:52 AM
Thanks for that,

I'd read a few reviews by Linux users and they seemed to swing from great to a disappointment (and a few thought 9.2-3 was way better)

Also from what I've read there is not much improvement from 32bit to 64bit, but it seems stupid not to use the 64 bit version as I have a 64bit CPU.

Looks like I'll have to whack in an ethernet card for my router and from what I've read the nVidia drivers are a bit of a pain.

Ah well, here goes a 2 gig d/load :eek:

I just know you noticed my problems with a dual-boot with XP and KUBUNTU...it cleaned out and formatted a few of my hdds that I didn't want it to.

The dual boot is just fine with XP and Mepis on my Dell...but the KUBUNTU grub just didn't work well with XP here on a SOYO mobo w/Athlon XP......be careful!

Maybe Lilo would have done better.

Jen
02-07-2006, 07:07 AM
I just know you noticed my problems with a dual-boot with XP and KUBUNTU...it cleaned out and formatted a few of my hdds that I didn't want it to.

The dual boot is just fine with XP and Mepis on my Dell...but the KUBUNTU grub just didn't work well with XP here on a SOYO mobo w/Athlon XP......be careful!
To be fair Joe, your XP setup was hardly considered *normal*. You had to start with 10 hard drives and were using PCI IDE add-on cards? I should also point out that you cleaned out and formatted your hard drives, not Kubuntu - it only does what you tell it to do ...


You should like SuSE Shortcircuit, it has been put together very nicely.

The Auckland LUG (Linux User Group) tomorrow night (Monday) will be looking at the latest developments with SuSE - details (http://www.linux.net.nz/taxonomy/view/or/2). As you can see, it is being presented by Novell themselves (NZ branch). Anyone can attend these presentations. :)

Shortcircuit
02-07-2006, 08:04 AM
That was a bit spooky Jen... in more ways than one :eek:

As soon as I saw the words EYE CANDY I knew it was for me :D

Hopefully I can make it, even though it could be a bit 'over my head'

Thanks for the info Jen!

beama
02-07-2006, 09:53 AM
I dual boot with SUSE 9.2 / XP Pro on a Novell network and the only problem I had was when I install the Novell cleint for SUSE, it said that the that the package dependancies were installed, but on checking ( after the novell client kept throwing errors) they were not so I installed the dependancy packages and all was well.

So my warning, dont always believe want the installer tells you.

Other wise Suse does everything I want it to do. IT picked up all my hardware including the the usb burner and usb cd stacker.

Shortcircuit
02-07-2006, 10:26 AM
So my warning, dont always believe want the installer tells you.

Sounds suspicously like Windows Update to me :p

I've been rummaging around for drivers etc as I've got quite a few peripherals connected to my box. Life will be much easier if Suse recognises them straight off.

Graham L
02-07-2006, 01:21 PM
Almost all distributions have a list of hardware known to work with them. But the simplest approach is to ask Google. "make_and_model_of_ thing name_and_release_of_Linux_distribution" . add "problems" or "driver" to that for more selective results.

Shortcircuit
03-07-2006, 03:18 PM
Well that would have to be the worst computing experience of my life :(

A 2 gig d/load, burn ISOs to CD... try to figure out what the hell they are talking about going through the install. 1st install failed half way... just stopped. 2nd install sure enough stuffed up my XP partiton and XP would no longer boot up.

Since I had Suse finally running decided to stick with it. Tried to install ethernet card, no go. Readme for linux install just said 'Linux maybe (sic) different to Windows'. Great help and again any menu in (Suse at least) linux is double dutch. trying to set up anything from the menus was like wading through half vague and half deliberately confusing information. (Note that I did a considerable amount of 'research' and reading before I took the plunge, so I should have half known what I was doing).

Finally I gave up and tried to boot into XP again... no go, XP had even disappeared from the boot loader menu.

After much swearing I inserted XP CD to do an new install of Windows and what do you know... it wouldn't get past Post.

Now left with a comp no OS and some beeps (most of them from me)

Spent another few hours reassembling old comp so I can run Win98 and know I'm going to be able to get on the net.

My impressions of Suse:

Set up procedure... crap. When I say I want my Windows opsys left intact- that's what I expect.

Ease of install... average. The 'instructions' in the info pane are 'arcane' to say the least. Even with a fair amount of knowledge of computers I had to read some of them a number of times to figure out what the options were.

Boot up... slow. Even by Windows standards.

Eyecandy... sure.

Menus... bad. Just an endless run around between Yast, home, not home, and all the other places you 'might' find what you're looking for (if you can figure out what you're supposed to be doing!).

My overall impression: if you've got any sense and want a system that's relatively easy to set up, with clear 'no crap' instructions/menus, stick with Windows (god, did I say that?) you'll save yourself a LOT of grief... and time.

I don't care if Linux is the 'domain of geeks', by now it should be almost as user friendly as Windows and there is NO excuse for the confusing way things are set up/labeled/explained. Plain English and ease of use is not the same as 'dumbing down'.

As my high school teacher said "Showed promise, but lacking in application" :D

Sadly I'm beginning to wonder if Linux will ever make it as a desk top.

Flames here>

FoxyMX
03-07-2006, 05:07 PM
Well that would have to be the worst computing experience of my life :(
Oh that's sad. :(

Been there, done that, though.... and got my fingers burnt too. :rolleyes:

I have said it before and I will say it again - it is a good idea to use removable hard drive caddies so that you can install and play with Linux on its very own hard drive instead of dual booting if you want to avoid the possibility of getting your Windows trashed. I was going to say it earlier in this thread before you started but nobody seems to take any notice of me and Jen advocating it so I shut up this time.

Hold your horses before doing anything silly at the moment as one of the Linux geeks might be able to suggest a way to get your Windows back again intact.

Jen
03-07-2006, 05:08 PM
So I guess you won't be at the LUG meeting tonight then huh? :p

If your machine is beeping, then you have hardware issues. Installing an OS often gives memory and the hard drive a good work out so any faults present can make themselves known after (or during that). I would try checking the memory for starters.

You shouldn't of needed to install the ethernet card as Linux already knows it is there and will have the appropriate drivers installed. All you need to do is select either DHCP and it will do the rest, or put in your static IP address and other required IP details (eg router/gateway IP etc). :)

Shame you had such a rough first time.

Shortcircuit
03-07-2006, 05:37 PM
Haha Jen, I think I am 'slightly' over computers today :dogeye:

Yeah it's sad, I feel like I gave it good try and it does look like a promising opsys, but far too much drama to get it going... even when I thought the only choice I had was to make it go because I couldn't go back to Windows!

I haven't investigated the post beeps yet, I get to 3 but not 4, so you may be right with the hardware.

I am pretty sure that Suse didn't know my ethernet card was there, but then again- there was nothing to say that it DID know and no success when I did the DHCP part (can't remember the message I got).

Nevermind- it gave the brain a workout :)

Jen
03-07-2006, 06:08 PM
You didn't mention your BIOS brand, but three beeps often indicates memory problems. Open your case and check to make sure the RAM is firmly seated. If you have two sticks of RAM, trying taking one out at a time to see if you can isolate the faulty stick.

Shortcircuit
03-07-2006, 06:27 PM
Bios is a Via K8T800pro on an Asus A8V motherboard... ram 2 sticks of 512 Geil.

On post it normally gives 1-2-1 beeps, but now 1-2-0 then hangs.

Of course they don't give any post 'beep' diagnostics in the manual.

I will fiddle with reseating the ram, but am thinking maybe new nforce4 m/board and a new Seagate Sata2 with NCQ (to add to the 3 other HD's that have died on me)... well, it's a good excuse for spending money :D

Jen
03-07-2006, 06:50 PM
Bios is a Via K8T800pro on an Asus A8V motherboard... ram 2 sticks of 512 Geil.

On post it normally gives 1-2-1 beeps, but now 1-2-0 then hangs.
Hmm ... from what I can tell you have an AMI BIOS. The 1-2-1 is not a normal passed POST code. One single long beep is - Reference (http://www.bioscentral.com/beepcodes/amibeep.htm).

You might wish to start a new thread about this if you require hardware help. :)

dolby digital
03-07-2006, 06:59 PM
Oh dear.

They do recommend backing up your harddrive before you do anything that effects partitions on your hard drive as you cannot give a 100% assurance that it won't end in tears (as yours did). I have done quite a few dual installs and only had the occasional problem.

Linux uses different labels for some things for good reason, the Windows terminology dates back to when a system had DOS and 2 floppy drives and thats all (a: and b:). Linux is more logical in that its hda for the first hard drive, hdb for the second etc etc. Of course if you have a sata drive, then its slightly diffferent, but I digress.

I personally like SUSE although I do use Mandrake and Fedora. Although having said that, my SUSE installs have been without any other OS.

Hopefully you will not write Linux off yet. I still get frustrated by Linux but I get frustrated by Windows too.

dolby digital
03-07-2006, 07:05 PM
The Auckland LUG (Linux User Group) tomorrow night (Monday) will be looking at the latest developments with SuSE - details (http://www.linux.net.nz/taxonomy/view/or/2). As you can see, it is being presented by Novell themselves (NZ branch). Anyone can attend these presentations. :)
Jen, Do you know if the "presentation" is coming down to Wgtn?

Shortcircuit
03-07-2006, 07:33 PM
Yep, it is an AMi bios Jen and from the list sounds like my 'normal' beep 1-2-1 is faulty memory... strange as it has done this from new (with diff ram as well) and I have done a mem test on the ram I got now. I shall investigate... of course it may mean new m/board, HD and 2 gig of ram!

Thanks for the encouragement Dolby, I may try again, but not today, or this week... or maybe next... :)

I wasn't too worried about the Suse install wiping the XP install if I stuffed up as I had only done a clean install of XP a week or so ago, so no great loss so long as I could do a reinstall of XP.

In this instance I don't think it would have helped if I'd backed up my HD first :(

I guess I've got a couple of options:

If the current HD is ok I could install Suse on it and XP on a new drive.

Or I have an external USB HD which I could install Suse on until I 'get it under control'... not sure how nicely this option would play with Windows, or even if it would work.

One thing's for sure- I won't be dual booting XP and Suse on the same HD again.

dolby digital
03-07-2006, 07:49 PM
In all your research, have you considered Xandros. Its only one 700MB cd and it very Windows like. I particularly like the way it does a Network Neighbourhood arla Windows (no Samba in site).

Actually to be honest, I did get rather annoyed with the SUSE dvd I got. Its probably to do with what they put on the dvd itself by the magazine (maybe). Its didn't have a compiler and it didn't have the samba server. I had to find the right versions and download them off the internet and I had some dependency issues :horrified

TGoddard
03-07-2006, 09:17 PM
I don't think any distribution is likely to do better in this case. Since the Windows installation also failed and that's an entirely separate set of software, the memory corruption is probably the cause, not the software side of things. Try running memtest86 (http://www.memtest86.com/). This will tell you whether there is a problem with memory.


If, as seems likely, the problem is in hardware, may I suggest trying it again after the fault is fixed? The terminology can be confusing at first and you will need to modify the partitioning of the disk if you want to dual boot, but once you master the learning curve, which isn't too high for most modern distros, linux can be extremely rewarding. We take for granted things Windows users would think impossible or need expensive software for.

dolby digital
03-07-2006, 09:50 PM
I don't think any distribution is likely to do better in this case.
I was meaning when his pc is running nicely thanks. Different distro's appeal to different people and the cost is minimal to get distro's. If cost really is an issue, your local library hopefully will have some pc magazines with cd's.

Although I like the Xandros file manager, I'm not so keen on it as it trys to hide the command line stuff from you.

Jen
03-07-2006, 09:50 PM
Jen, Do you know if the "presentation" is coming down to Wgtn?It can come right down to your own desktop :nerd: . The last 12 months or so of the presentations are available for download. See here (http://aucklug.debian.co.nz/archive/). You may have to wait a few days for the latest presentation to be uploaded. All I can say about Xgl is wow, wow, WOW :eek:

Shortcircuit
03-07-2006, 10:33 PM
I was meaning when his pc is running nicely thanks. Different distro's appeal to different people and the cost is minimal to get distro's. If cost really is an issue, your local library hopefully will have some pc magazines with cd's.

Although I like the Xandros file manager, I'm not so keen on it as it trys to hide the command line stuff from you.

Cost is not an issue, Windows costs, so does the other software that I have purchased. Sure I use open source software if it works... f/fox, T/bird, Sunbird, O/office all work, but a lot of that sort of stuff has an 'unfinished' feel about it, either that too many people have had a hand in it or the developers assume that users instinctively know what they should do with it.

It's like getting someone to drive a car without a steering wheel and expecting them to know where the alternative controls are... makes for a steep learning curve for anyone... and could cause a few accidents :eek:

The hardware problem may be unrelated to the Suse install... but everything worked fine before that, so I can only assume that installing linux had something to do with it.

Jen
03-07-2006, 10:43 PM
Sure I use open source software if it works... f/fox, T/bird, Sunbird, O/office all work, but a lot of that sort of stuff has an 'unfinished' feel about it, either that too many people have had a hand in it or the developers assume that users instinctively know what they should do with it.

It's like getting someone to drive a car without a steering wheel and expecting them to know where the alternative controls are... makes for a steep learning curve for anyone... and could cause a few accidents :eek: Ah, well you will be pleased how some distros are working to prevent this. Novell/SuSE has a usability lab (in the States) where non Linux users are asked to use the system. They are video-taped and these recordings are used to make the product more intuitive. An example they gave was with the Novell Evolution application (email client). Evolution is not an obvious name if you are looking for the email application, so they adding the description "For emailing and calendar" in the funky new menu they have. They also removed the Send/Receive button as the test users kept clicking that thinking that was how you started a new email (the Send part). All this stuff is part of the new Novell Desktop that is currently being developed and will apparently be part of the Open SuSE release. :)

SurferJoe46
04-07-2006, 08:37 AM
Especially to Jen and any other SuSe users;

Does SuSe come with any appplications or drivers at all? I quote from the site:

Download versions of SUSE Linux do not come with any bundled support offering.

Is this telling me that if I were to try SuSe that I'd have to find my own drivers?

If I decide to try it, will I get default settings on monitors and USB's and printers? Or none at all?

Shortcircuit
04-07-2006, 09:11 AM
No SurferJoe,

one thing Suse appeared to do well was install compatible drivers for most of my hardware (not sure about ethernet, see above). By no support I think they mean no external help.

And yes- you appeared to be right about Linux install trashing your drive :waughh:

SurferJoe46
04-07-2006, 09:36 AM
I am going to go back and bump an older post on this as I have more questions and don't want to hijack another thread (again)

Shortcircuit
04-07-2006, 12:44 PM
Jen- the thought of something being labelled 'e-mail' when it is actually e-mail appeals to me immensely, but then I have a very low IQ :p

Hijack away SurferJoe, my work here is done... until my next attempt to install Linux :D

SurferJoe46
04-07-2006, 02:36 PM
Jen- the thought of something being labelled 'e-mail' when it is actually e-mail appeals to me immensely, but then I have a very low IQ :p

Hijack away SurferJoe, my work here is done... until my next attempt to install Linux :D

I went and got a Ubuntu Live disk, (already have Kubuntu..this is a little different) and I like it a lot...it looks very much like Windows if you squint your eyes just so....but really...it looks like even I could run it.

The version I got was for an AMD64, and it runs ok on this AMD XP...so I guess the cross-association is OK.

As a live cd, it leaves a lot to the imagination as to how it will run as a full install...but there is that one point you made...

Gads! the really slow slow slow boot!!!!!!!!!!!

In my playing with it, I could not for the life of me figger out how to get Firefox running. I used the default browser, the name of which escapes me right now (that's the toughest curve so far...all those goofy names!), but I could not understand what happened...I got all the associated files and stuff, but there's no .exe or install icon anywhere...am I missing something?

Shortcircuit
04-07-2006, 03:40 PM
Yes, SurferJoe, Suse was like booting a wet blanket... slower than XP.

I did notice that on my newer 64bit box both XP and Suse booted up very slowly, but when I installed XP on my older box (less ram and Athlon 1600+ CPU), XP booted much faster. Maybe it's a 64bit thing?

Ubuntu sounds hopeful, especially if it's 64bit compatible and looks like Windows.

Do you think someone with an IQ of 136 could use it... or is it too difficult? :D

TGoddard
04-07-2006, 04:39 PM
Live CDs are always slow to boot and run as they have to load and decompress large amounts of data from the CD. For some reason Suse also has a very slow boot compared to many other distributions. When running there are no speed issues though.

FoxyMX
04-07-2006, 04:40 PM
All the ones I have tried have taken way longer to boot than Windows. :(

It's a Linux thing and requires a lot of fiddling to get that boot time down to a blink of an eye.

dolby digital
04-07-2006, 05:25 PM
Jen- the thought of something being labelled 'e-mail' when it is actually e-mail appeals to me immensely, but then I have a very low IQ :p



If you are still listening... I don't use Outlook cos, well what does Outlook mean to a computer user. :D

Shortcircuit
04-07-2006, 05:29 PM
If you are still listening... I don't use Outlook cos, well what does Outlook mean to a computer user. :D

I did try Outlook years ago, but couldn't get the hang of it because I was always wanting to look out the window.

Thunderbird I can understand because I was brought up on a certain TV program with puppets (sorry marionettes) :D

dolby digital
04-07-2006, 06:14 PM
I did try Outlook years ago, but couldn't get the hang of it because I was always wanting to look out the window.

Thunderbird I can understand because I was brought up on a certain TV program with puppets (sorry marionettes) :D
LOL

Yes, whats in a name eh?

They did amazing things with those puppets. Kids would probably laugh these at them, but they where amazing at the time... although I could never work out how Thunderbird 2 could fly on those stubby wings :confused:

johnd
04-07-2006, 09:14 PM
I have been a Redhat user since 1998 with one small diversion to Mandrake as it was then. Because we are a Novell site at work, I have twice tried to change to SuSE. The reasons were:
1. Compatibility with Novell Netware.
2. The product looked so good on paper and on screen.

Both times I gave up and went back to Redhat or now Fedora. With SuSE I had:
1. software support issues.
2. strange behaviour such as desktops screwing up for no apparent reason.
3. performance issues - it seemed to go much slower on my aging AMD850 than Fedora.

I am not intending to try SuSE again - I know Fedora is not perfect, but it works with no unexplained screwups!

SurferJoe46
05-07-2006, 02:43 AM
Yes, SurferJoe, Suse was like booting a wet blanket... slower than XP.

I did notice that on my newer 64bit box both XP and Suse booted up very slowly, but when I installed XP on my older box (less ram and Athlon 1600+ CPU), XP booted much faster. Maybe it's a 64bit thing?

Ubuntu sounds hopeful, especially if it's 64bit compatible and looks like Windows.

Do you think someone with an IQ of 136 could use it... or is it too difficult? :D

Now that you've mentioned it, yes! My little Dell 750 boots Mepis quite well..not fast, but OK if I need time to take a shower first...it's there waiting for me if I hit the button before getting wet.

Now as to the LIVE versions...I don't see a lot of time-for-boot differential with them, as the Mepis has to do a lot of unpacking too..even though it's a hdd install.

I wish they could set up defaults to boot when they got (intuitively?) older and saw that I just don't have any HP printers nor am I using VOIP either.

All that fluff is what I think slows down the boot. Maybe after a while I will tweak the boot sequence to dump the hardware drivers for stuff that I don't have yet it looks for every time.

All-in-all..it looks promising...especially when XP is no longer supported and I refuse to buy new hdwr...as you see, I am getting crotchitdy and older by the minute. I intend to get worser too! :mad:

Why do we grow so soon old and so late smart?

mantermite
05-07-2006, 08:49 AM
Sounds like you have had some fun with Linux there!!!!!
Must admit my first step into Linux was nasty but mainly cause I didn't know what I was doing when I did it.!!!!!! :badpc:

My first problem was with my sony dvd burner it wouldn't let me install any Linux distros for some reason, fished out my old one and voila perfect install. All done on a separate partion of course so as not to kill the WinXP install.

I think with Linux it pays to have some partial knowledge of partitioning and what packages you think are neccesary, but most of the distros tell you what to do (do remember this was my first turn and I was just reading off the screen the info it gave me). We are expecting it to do it like a Microsoft box so when it starts giving us choices when freak out! MS is good for something then ;)

Be warned Vista has a very similar install to Linux in my opinion, asking which partition do we want to install on, and all the security measures are very similar to a "root" account.

I don't think Linux is for someone that is used to Windows but for a new person who jumps straight into it, I am sure it will make absolute sense if they are shown the right ways as most of us were with Windows.

Shortcircuit
05-07-2006, 09:07 AM
The 'separate' partition was where things started going downhill... Linux did a very good job of screwing that up, even though I had read up on it beforehand ie I made sure I was following the instructions because I REALLY didn't want to screw up the Windows install.

I don't mean to put it bluntly, but it is fairly obvious that a lot (or maybe all) linux converts will be coming from a Windows environment and a large number of them would want to dual boot Linux with Windows until they get the hang of it. It does Linux no favours went it can't even partition a HD properly.

I have no probs with being given choices, but I have to say that most of the choices (in Suse at least) are not clear... it may be fun for someone who has hours to spend playing around and deciphering things, but that to me does not make for a usable opsys.

Vista will not be an option for me no matter how much MS push it, so some form of Linux will eventually find it's way onto my comp (I hope), I just see it as an uphill battle right now.

mantermite
05-07-2006, 09:19 AM
Did you select the option for SuSe to do the automatic partitioning and you selected the area you wanted it to do that?

Or did you do a custom install and partition it yourself?

I'm in two minds about Linux and MS products at the moment, there is the MS train which will always be smiling and waiting to put on with it, but then Linux seems quite "free" at the moment but the learning curve is steep just to install basic packages randomly. Nothing beats a ".exe" over installing in Linux. In saying that how ong will it be when Linux does just package something and install right of the bat. We shall see how Novell go.

Just so you know I have 3 drives and about 7 or 8 partitions, with XP, Vista beta and SuSe 10.1 floating in the system and they do work in harmony.
So there is hope. :thumbs: :thumbs:
When you get it all working, it goes well. And SuSe does take longer than XP to boot but I just hark back to the days when we actually had time to get coffee and food whilst the computer was booting and smile.
The long run of my rant is that it is still a computer and will only do what we tell it. No matter if it is MS or Linux. (or OSX to that fact)

TGoddard
05-07-2006, 09:28 AM
Shortcircuit, did you try to resize the Windows partition? Resizing partitions is notoriously unreliable. You may find it easier if you partition the drive first, then install Windows, and finally install your chosen Linux distro (installing Windows will replace your MBR, cutting out your bootloader without asking you). Suse should automatically detect if there is free space on the drive and the proposed partition setup will use only that space.

I find it really interesting how we become accustomed to installing things in a particular way. Windows users tend to find it frustrating when they move to a Linux distro that they don't have their standard executable, standalone installers. I find it frustrating that I can't download and install the software I need simply by checking a box in Windows like I do here or manage updates through a single centralised service. I suppose this is one of those regions where we become used to one way of doing things and find it hard to change either way.

Shortcircuit
05-07-2006, 09:40 AM
Yes, I already had Windows (unpartitioned) on the HD and let Linux install partition the space as it recognised the XP install. As they say "we live and learn". :waughh:

After that experience I won't dual install XP and Linux on the same HD, it'll either be on separate HDs or comps.

One of the reasons I installed Suse was because it came with firefox, open office etc and I thought wouldn't have to faff around trying to get them running.

Thanks for all your input you guys, I do appreciate it very much, just a bit sad that none of this came out when I originally made the thread asking what to look out for :)

FoxyMX
05-07-2006, 10:36 AM
Yes, I already had Windows (unpartitioned) on the HD and let Linux install partition the space as it recognised the XP install.
Maybe that is where you went wrong? It is much more preferable to have an empty, unpartitioned space on your hard drive for Linux to install to. If you had Windows taking up the entire hard drive you would have had to shrink that partition down to make room then direct Linux to install on the new empty space.

It should have done all that for you during the install but obviously tripped over somewhere along the way. :(

Shortcircuit
05-07-2006, 10:39 AM
Yes, you're probably right in hindsight Foxy- now I just have to clean up the mess :D

SurferJoe46
05-07-2006, 06:30 PM
What gripes me is that I have done one dual-boot successfully, and the other one is all fouled up.

The XP - Mepis on the Dell P-III, 750mhz, 512g, 1-40g hdd, 1-160g hdd and 1 Canon printer and assorted hardware and DSL and a router all work well on that tower.

The other XP - KUBUNTU, on an AMD XP, SOYO mobo, multiple disk system with eid expansion cards etc..got fouled up...but please hear what happened before you laugh.

I was running the LIVE version of KUBUNTU, and decided I liked it a lot, and clicked on the "INSTALL ME!" icon. Sorrow follows...read on:


I got asked what hdd I wanted to put it on, and since I had cleaned a spare 40g unit for just that same reason, I told it to use hdk, which it never squeaked over or had any reservations at all.

It then asked me where I wanted the GRUB to install, and I had about 22g left on my XP-root drive (hda to KUBUNTU, C to Windows), and it accepted that too.

The GRUB proceeded to fdisk hdk, hdj, hdi, and hdh.

Now, I was a little upset that it took license with my command and decided all on it's own volition to do that...I only wanted it to format hdk, not the others!

I didn't know it had done that until it got done and told me it had screwed the install up and it was sorry......and......"Would you like to send a log file to .....whomever?" (like I would know where it filed a log anyway?)

There are no checks and balances in a system that does something irresponsible as that. My disappointment in KUBUNTU, although I like it very much and still want it, is that pure ignorance of the GRUB thing-y.

If it SAID IT COULD do the install, and would use hdk as I wanted (which it recognized on the eid expansion card too) and it was following programmed variables and limitations..etc, then why did it let the install go on, if it was incapable of it in the first place?

It agreed to my requests, it found the drive where I told it it would be, and it proceeded to accept my placement of the program..which was on a totally empty hdd that I cleared off for just that purpose...and then in the end it failed and erased 3 other hdds just for fun.

Big OOPS! :groan: :stare: :blush: :xmouth:

Shortcircuit
05-07-2006, 06:53 PM
hmmm, doesn't give you tooo much faith in a system if it runs off and just does what it wants. Of course it could be a cheeky ploy to rid the planet of Windows.

Linux has found a copy of Microsoft Windows on your computer and can partition the HD to keep Windows. Press Enter to continue> Thank you, your hard drive has now been wiped. :eek:

Or

Linux cannot find any other software on your computer, but has noticed that you have several HD's, press Enter to install on first available HD> than you, Linux has been installed and all HD's have been wiped just in case. :eek: :eek:

TGoddard
05-07-2006, 11:22 PM
That sounds a bit like Windows wiping the MBR without even mentioning it :) Seriously, getting a dual boot machine working can be difficult whichever way around you do it.

SurferJoe46
06-07-2006, 11:16 AM
That sounds a bit like Windows wiping the MBR without even mentioning it :) Seriously, getting a dual boot machine working can be difficult whichever way around you do it.

Well...I am batting .500 here for the two installs...one successfull, on snafu'd.

Graham L
06-07-2006, 12:17 PM
Joe:

I don't know, but I suspect that a Windows installation might not have left much of that system either, Joe.

I know I wouldn't have tried to do my second or first installation (or any) of Linux on a system like that. People who write installation scripts do have some limits to their imagination. (And they have limits to their hardware too: they can only test on "reasonable" configurations.) There's sure to be someone who will have something complicated.

.. Download versions of SUSE Linux do not come with any bundled support offering. just means that if you don't [b]buy Suse from Novell, you can't get support from them. If you buy, you get the full retail thing, maybe with printed manuals, and a "number to call" for support. If you download, all you get is the publicly licenced stuff, and no support. There will be lots of open source applications there. There could well be some of Novell's own applications not publicly licenced. You can't expect that free, like support.

Commercial distributers make their money by selling support, and some applications. They don't sell Linux. The OS is free.

Shortcircuit
30-07-2006, 10:57 PM
Update>

Out of shear frustration with Windows and after trying all sorts of live Linux distros (Ubuntu/Mepis/Freespire latest) along with a live CD of Suse to check that it wouldn't 'throw another wobbly', I bit the bullet and spent the day doing a fresh install of Suse 10.1 64bit.

Call me bloody-minded, but I was determined that Suse wasn't going to beat me and after 12 hours of hair-pulling I think I'm getting there.

Managed to install it on a raid 0 with 2 sata drives (that was a fun start!)

Installed nVidia 'ntune' version on X-something

Installed Minolta laser printer... much more fun!

Installed Linux version of Corel Photo/paint... but can't get it to work even tho I found the folder it's in :(

Went around and around in circles with Yast/Yast control panel/install panel/update panel/printer panel/Kfax server panel... god do they make it hard to install anything !!!

Now at the point where I don't know much more, but have redeemed myself from feeling like an absolute idiot.

It's funny, the arcane instructions to do absolutely anything in Suse start to make sense after about 6 hours of reading them looking for ANY hint of what they might mean.

Windows is relegated to the rubbish bin, I've lost a large amount of hair and fingernails, but I shall sleep fairly soundly in the hope that the box will boot up in the morning :)

Hold your breath Jen, I feel some questions coming on :D

SurferJoe46
31-07-2006, 03:46 AM
I had to stand up, face somewhat in the direction of where I believe NZ to be, and throw you a smart hand-salute.

You might've slept well last night (whatEVER time/time-zone that was) because zombies, from all reports sleep well.

Since you have trashed Windows, though, I don't feel you've met the challenge of a dual-boot......and THAT's the biggie.

Maybe I shouldda only send a 1/2 salute. :p

C'mon....give it a good ol' NZ try.......Dual-boots are de bomb! (insert exploding head icon here)

Still batting .500 here, and still looking for my mysteriously missing H, I, J and K drives.

Laura
31-07-2006, 04:29 AM
Stick with it, Shortcircuit
.
Some of us watching hope for your advice some day.

Shortcircuit
31-07-2006, 07:48 AM
Thanks Laura,

I slept well, well this morning I feel like I've been 10 rounds with a grizzly bear, but the box started up... all my changes were still there and I didn't even have to log into PF1 :)

SurferJoe, thanks for the half salute :p

I thought about trying the dual-boot route option again, but considering last time thought it might be pushing my luck!

Still had heaps of fun setting up as Suse install kept insisting that it wanted to mount something to WindowsC... um which didn't exist any more.

There are still a few little niggles with the set-up, but I'm looking at it from a 'Windows' perspective. I haven't even tried setting up anything to do with video etc yet... may take a deep breath 1st.

phar
31-07-2006, 08:26 AM
I'm still using SUSE 9.3 Profressional still going good Dual boot with Win 98se. Yast is great to use, always self checks for updates (p.s use a Taiwanese server, much faster)

May go to 10.1 one day.

dolby digital
31-07-2006, 05:46 PM
Update>

Out of shear frustration with Windows and after trying all sorts of live Linux distros (Ubuntu/Mepis/Freespire latest) along with a live CD of Suse to check that it wouldn't 'throw another wobbly', I bit the bullet and spent the day doing a fresh install of Suse 10.1 64bit.

Call me bloody-minded, but I was determined that Suse wasn't going to beat me and after 12 hours of hair-pulling I think I'm getting there.

Managed to install it on a raid 0 with 2 sata drives (that was a fun start!)

Installed nVidia 'ntune' version on X-something

Installed Minolta laser printer... much more fun!

Installed Linux version of Corel Photo/paint... but can't get it to work even tho I found the folder it's in :(

Went around and around in circles with Yast/Yast control panel/install panel/update panel/printer panel/Kfax server panel... god do they make it hard to install anything !!!

Now at the point where I don't know much more, but have redeemed myself from feeling like an absolute idiot.

It's funny, the arcane instructions to do absolutely anything in Suse start to make sense after about 6 hours of reading them looking for ANY hint of what they might mean.

Windows is relegated to the rubbish bin, I've lost a large amount of hair and fingernails, but I shall sleep fairly soundly in the hope that the box will boot up in the morning :)

Hold your breath Jen, I feel some questions coming on :D


Well done. We all knew you could do it. Those instructions aren't that bad are they (I don't know, I never read any install instructions for SUSE but then I suppose although not a Linux geek like Jen :p, I do run 3 linux boxes).

Ask away (questions), we'll just answer with another question :waughh:

Jen
31-07-2006, 06:00 PM
Those instructions aren't that bad are they (I don't know, I never read any install instructions for SUSE but then I suppose although not a Linux geek like Jen :p, I do run 3 linux boxes).I have you know I do read the man pages or how-to's ... mostly :p


Installed Linux version of Corel Photo/paint... but can't get it to work even tho I found the folder it's inIf you didn't install this program into your /home/shortcircuit directory, then you shouldn't be poking around other folders starting it ...

Spit out your problems/error messages and what folder (full path) and file name you are trying to start the program from. :)

Good start so far, keep it up! :D

Shortcircuit
31-07-2006, 06:08 PM
Thanks DD... after a few hours of cursing I wasn't sure I could do it. I must say that I've seen more error messages so far in Linux than I ever have in Windows, maybe a good thing, maybe not :)

First questions:

I have an external Maxtor HD usb drive That I used with XP... mainly has jpegs etc on it. When I plug it in Suse shows it as 'unmounted usb devices'... not 1 but about 5 with varying amounts of gigs. KDE daemon pops up multiple windows asking what I want to do but if I try to view any of the files some of them show in konquerer as home/sys/floppy etc... some I can't open and get unable to mount error or similar.

Is there any way I can view the files off the HD, or is it because the disk is formatted for Windows?

Question 2, I installed Wine through YaST and install seemed to go fine, but no references to Wine anywhere in the system menus. I want to install copy of Corel Draw on Wine and not sure what to do?

Shortcircuit
31-07-2006, 06:47 PM
Hmmm... what are man pages Jen? :D

Well, I did manage to get the Corel tar unpacked into a home folder. YaST seemed to find it and install it, but the same as with Wine it's nowhere to be seen :(

I also tried clicking on the 'install' icon in the Corel folder and got a terminal window pop up saying 'enter superuser (root) password' but can't type anything in there... must be time for a drink!

PS I have a Windows copy of Corel that I can install running Wine, or I have the 'Linux Corel' version as a tar just to make things clearer. My prefered option would be the Windows version running on Wine.

Jen
31-07-2006, 07:26 PM
Hmmm... what are man pages Jen? :D
man (http://faqf1.net.nz/index.php?title=How_do_I_...#What_are_helpful_comm ands_to_know) servant ready to serve up the pages. :p


Well, I did manage to get the Corel tar unpacked into a home folder. YaST seemed to find it and install it, but the same as with Wine it's nowhere to be seenWhat did you do to get YaST to install it? Did you just double click on the package? Why can't you type in the root password? Is there a README file in the Corel folder? Go into the Corel folder and hit F4 (a terminal window should open). Then enter in at the prompt:

ls -apl [hit enter] (note, those are lowercase L's)

Post back here with that result.


PS I have a Windows copy of Corel that I can install running Wine, or I have the 'Linux Corel' version as a tar just to make things clearer. My prefered option would be the Windows version running on Wine.Not sure how well the Windows versions of Corel Photo/Paint works under Wine, and I believe the Linux port of that application still requires Wine to run.


Any reason for not using Gimp instead?

Shortcircuit
31-07-2006, 07:37 PM
man pages different than I'm used to... no pictures ;)

Jen, I followed your instructions and here's what I get in the terminal:

lxuser@linux-8bnj:~/CorelPHOTOPAINT9Lnx> ls -apl
total 4338
drwxr-xr-x 4 lxuser users 280 2006-07-30 14:53 ./
drwxr-xr-x 30 lxuser users 1800 2006-07-31 19:30 ../
drwxr-xr-x 4 lxuser users 232 2000-06-27 08:12 dists/
-r-xr-xr-x 1 lxuser users 3112 2000-06-23 07:34 getlibcver
-r-xr-xr-x 1 lxuser users 4378020 2000-06-24 15:58 install
-r--r--r-- 1 lxuser users 3824 1998-03-25 09:25 newdaisy.gif
-r--r--r-- 1 lxuser users 31302 2000-06-27 01:25 ReadmeFirst.html
-r-xr-xr-x 1 lxuser users 9677 2000-06-23 07:34 remove-graphics9
drwxr-xr-x 3 lxuser users 256 2000-06-27 08:12 Setup/
-r--r--r-- 1 lxuser users 282 2000-06-27 08:15 volinfo.txt
lxuser@linux-8bnj:~/CorelPHOTOPAINT9Lnx>

Is that good or bad?

Er, next question- Now what do I do?

PS, Gimp is OK but I'm very used to Corel and really don't like all the seperate windows floating around the desktop in Gimp

Jen
31-07-2006, 07:40 PM
-r--r--r-- 1 lxuser users 31302 2000-06-27 01:25 ReadmeFirst.htmlDouble click on this file and see what it has to say about installing/launching the application.

Shortcircuit
31-07-2006, 09:31 PM
I got Corel to install ok from it's own installer, but can't get it to work from there. The install window just said 'Corel is now installed and ready to use'.

I guess it's too much to hope that it would put a nice icon in my KDE graphics menu or on the desktop? :(

Jen
31-07-2006, 09:45 PM
If you install applications using that method, then often you will not get any icons on the KMenu automatically added. But you can add them yourself easily enough.

The next trick is finding what you need to enter to start the application. Did it mention what you needed to enter in that ReadmeFirst.html?

Have you now got in the CorelPHOTOPAINT9Lnx folder a file called "corel" or similar that is a shell script? If you hover over the files, it should show you in the status bar at the bottom of the window what sort of file it is.

Otherwise, do the ls -apl again to see which file is the launcher (the launcher might of been created after you had run the installer file).