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Erayd
06-06-2006, 06:10 PM
After reading through some of the old FAQs (and the latest FAQ thread (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=69582)), I would like to propose a change in the Press F1 FAQ system.

Since most of these were written, a lot has changed - software has been updated, new technologies (and their related problems) are now available to the general user. I feel that the existing system doesn't do a good job of keeping track of these changes.

I suggest that the entire FAQ section be replaced with a 'howto' wiki. The topics that really are 'frequently asked about' can be easily linked to from a single page. A wiki offers a much greater scope for change, and this way the knowledge contained in the FAQ section wouldn't ever go out of date.

What do others think?

somebody
06-06-2006, 06:49 PM
Sounds like a great idea...

robsonde
06-06-2006, 06:51 PM
sounds good to me.

Jen
06-06-2006, 07:15 PM
I like the idea too. The current format of the FAQ is very hard to maintain, and I think Bruce only does it when he has time and it is a very low priority. A Wiki or similar format that would allow a select group of people to edit the information to keep it up to date would be ideal. However, back to reality ... Bruce et al are very busy people, and making modifications like this would get a low priority. No harm suggesting it though. :)

Erayd
06-06-2006, 07:22 PM
Does it really need to be done by Bruce etc. to get it started? If someone was happy to donate server space, it could be set up by someone else (with Chill & yourself as mods) and run from there until someone finds the time to tranfer it to the PF1 server.

Jen
06-06-2006, 07:37 PM
That is one way of doing it. See what Bruce thinks of the whole idea. :)

Dannz
06-06-2006, 07:38 PM
If the need arises i am able (and happy) to provide hosting etc

FoxyMX
06-06-2006, 08:27 PM
There is no reason that a FAQ section has to be hosted or maintained by PressF1 like it is now any more than ImageF1 and ChatF1 are. As long as it is made clear that it is not affiliated with PF1 then there is nothing stopping anyone creating such a FAQ Wiki.

bob_doe_nz
06-06-2006, 08:50 PM
Do you want this faq wiki to be a closed access or freely editable one?

Or more to the point, can there BE a closed access wiki?

Dannz
06-06-2006, 09:15 PM
Wouldnt closed access be better? - with people who can be trusted to contribute sensibly let to edit?

and it can be done:
MediaWiki: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Preventing_Access#Disable_anonymous_edits
Moin: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/SecurityPolicy#head-6fa9077402b1eedb648d64c338debcd32a899776
(also uses ACL's)

Dannz
06-06-2006, 09:21 PM
Regarding closed access what about this?
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ModernCmsTheme

Moin Based Wiki -- it looks like a normal site to regular users and a wiki to editors.
this means that regular users that dont have much knowledge about wikis wont get confused.

bob_doe_nz
06-06-2006, 09:27 PM
Sweet...candy candy candylike candy

Prescott
06-06-2006, 10:08 PM
I wouldn't mind writting some stuff for the wiki....

bob_doe_nz
06-06-2006, 10:26 PM
Same here, just gotta remember that not everyone is a seasoned user when it comes to computers... :xmouth:

Erayd
06-06-2006, 10:53 PM
There is no reason that a FAQ section has to be hosted or maintained by PressF1 like it is now any more than ImageF1 and ChatF1 are. As long as it is made clear that it is not affiliated with PF1 then there is nothing stopping anyone creating such a FAQ Wiki.
The reason I suggested hosting it on the PF1 server is that it could be integrated with the vBulletin user database. It could then be set up so only PF1 members can edit. That way it would be (mostly) free of spam, subject to the same terms of use as the PF1 forum and easy to use - only one user / pass to bother with.

stu161204
06-06-2006, 11:36 PM
Wouldnt closed access be better? - with people who can be trusted to contribute sensibly let to edit?

You have a Good point there DanielF :)

Also having a Press F1 FAQ Wiki sounds like a Good idea :)

I can also help with the hosting/getting the domain name or just general looking after it i.e.: upgrading the Wiki so it does not get hacked, removing any spam links/ comments etc… or writing some stuff for the wiki as well.

stu161204
06-06-2006, 11:41 PM
The reason I suggested hosting it on the PF1 server is that it could be integrated with the vBulletin user database. It could then be set up so only PF1 members can edit. That way it would be (mostly) free of spam, subject to the same terms of use as the PF1 forum and easy to use - only one user / pass to bother with.

One problem with that is people would join PressF1 just to Spam it & make more work for the PressF1 Mods.

Plus security issues i.e. like what would happen if the Wiki got hacked? PressF1 could also get hacked/loss data??

& database size / disk space available & CPU usage From PressF1 could the server cope with both PressF1 & the Wiki??

My :2cents:

Prescott
06-06-2006, 11:45 PM
Im sure you could make it so that only the people that Bruce chooses to make the FAQ/Wiki can modify it.....

Erayd
06-06-2006, 11:54 PM
All excellent points. I guess I was hoping that the spam issue wouldn't be a problem - judging by the amount of people that join to spam PF1, I was assuming that the number who spam the wiki would be similar.

Noting the server issue - what if only the authentication was handled by the PF1 server? When logging into FAQF1 the server would send an md5 hash of the user/pass to a script on the PF1 server which would reply valid/not valid. This would avoid the issue of PF1 being hacked, as only one PHP script would need to be vetted. Access to this script could also be limited to only the IP of the FAQF1 server.

Dannz
07-06-2006, 08:39 AM
I got bored last night and setup a media wiki .. wiki.
Im in the middle of setting up the edits etc. Ill post a link for people to have a look and see what they think.

Re the authenticiation issue. - Bruce et al are likely to be too busy to spend the required time on setting up the auth'ing with the PF1 server. The mods and maybe a few of the more responsible members of pressf1 could look at who gets access. As has been said above this doesnt need to be affiliated with IDG (much like ChatF1/ImageF1)

Morgenmuffel
07-06-2006, 08:43 AM
I hate to put a dampner on things,

But i think the wiki would have to be hosted away from PF1 with its own login scripts etc, just read the last thread on the pressf1 clock, it would probably be quite a low priority, and it would involve hacking of the vbulletin script, which could end up time consuming after all pressf1 is free

don't get me wrong i like the idea of a wiki, as it would be a lot easier to keep up to date when new issues arise, (remember the billion or so service pack 2 threads)

which reminds me

anyone else read this in the howtos (http://pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/pcw.nsf/hthard/2A8792679D4E48C6CC25717A0016519C)

Dannz
07-06-2006, 09:00 AM
On Second thoughts... ill post the link after school - im late already :xmouth:

Erayd
07-06-2006, 09:28 AM
...and it would involve hacking of the vbulletin script.Why? No hacking needed, that was what I meant about using a separate script. All that needs to happen is for this (separate) script on the PF1 server to have access to the username, password, kick & ban fields on the PF1 database. Such a script would be really short (less than a page long) and as such would be really easy and quick for Bruce et al to look at from a security point of view before uploading to the server. There is no worry about compromising vBulletin - the code for that isn't touched.

Jen
07-06-2006, 09:43 AM
I think the KISS principle would work best for a Wiki. The Wiki is for public viewing (members/non-members) so no login is required. The editors would have their own username/password with authentication being handled by the Wiki site. The Admin of the Wiki would set up the edit user accounts for those writing/editing the FAQs.

The Unofficial Wiki FAQ idea is an entirely separate entity to PressF1 - hence the "not affiliated with IDG" etc part.

somebody
07-06-2006, 10:07 AM
Is there not some facility in VBulletin to allow you to change user permissons for separate parts of the board - eg. change the permissions in the FAQ section so that people with x number of posts have edit permissions? I'm not familiar with VBulletin software specifically, but I'm sure I've seen it done somewhere before.

Erayd
07-06-2006, 10:12 AM
I think this is possible (PHPBB can certainly do it) but I think a wiki would be nicer anyway - a lot easier to use & change. Plus, as mentioned above, it saves some very busy people the time needed to set it up.

Biggles
07-06-2006, 10:20 AM
This gets the big thumbs up from me. A much better way of doing it than what we can do here and keeps it fresh and up to date.

As Captain Picard would say: "Make it so".

Dannz
07-06-2006, 05:38 PM
The wiki is in the process of being setup now (i seem to have volunteered to set it up) - any graphics/design people around that could make a logo for us?

Erayd
07-06-2006, 05:43 PM
Why not ask Bruce if we can nick this one (http://idg.net.nz/pcwpressf1/head_pf1.gif). Then just replace 'Press' with 'FAQ'. Bruce?

Perhaps #faqf1 on freenode would be a better place to organise this, (at least for now), as it's a lot faster than watching the forum threads.

Dannz
07-06-2006, 05:52 PM
Im There (#faqf1)

Jen
07-06-2006, 05:55 PM
Why not ask Bruce if we can nick this one (http://idg.net.nz/pcwpressf1/head_pf1.gif). Then just replace 'Press' with 'FAQ'. Bruce?

Perhaps #faqf1 on freenode would be a better place to organise this, (at least for now), as it's a lot faster than watching the forum threads.Sorry, no nicking permitted. The graphics associated with PressF1/IDG are not for use on third-party websites. This is why ImageF1, TradeF1 and ChatF1 all have their own colour scheme and graphics and don't mention PressF1 as part of the website name. You will have to come up with something original. Good chance for those keen designers ;)

BTW, you can use ChatF1 to discuss the house-keeping stuff for this FAQ Wiki as you do not need a IRC client. Anyone can join in that way.

stu161204
07-06-2006, 06:31 PM
Iam on ChatF1 if any one wants to talk about the PressF1 Wiki

Erayd
07-06-2006, 09:54 PM
Before I add it - is the IRC FAQ (http://pressf1.co.nz/faq.php?faq=faq_pressf1_root#faq_pressf1_faq_08) still valid? Should it be ditched or kept?

stu161204
07-06-2006, 10:00 PM
Before I add it - is the IRC FAQ (http://pressf1.co.nz/faq.php?faq=faq_pressf1_root#faq_pressf1_faq_08) still valid? Should it be ditched or kept?

I think it’s still valid, I have just added it to the Wiki anyhow, we can always remove it if its wrong :)

Jen
07-06-2006, 10:02 PM
All the original FAQs still exist, the ones that didn't get copied into the FAQ section of vBulletin. You can find them by going into Advanced Search and then putting in:
Keyword: FAQ
And then selecting from the dropdown list: Search Titles only

If you are copying across existing FAQs, remember to keep the original author's name as credit for their work. Some of the author's are still around and might want to update their FAQ themselves. :)

bob_doe_nz
07-06-2006, 10:07 PM
I thought Foxy did most of them didnt she?

stu161204
07-06-2006, 10:23 PM
If you are copying across existing FAQs, remember to keep the original author's name as credit for their work. Some of the author's are still around and might want to update their FAQ themselves. :)

Yep we are :)

Greg
07-06-2006, 10:29 PM
which reminds me
anyone else read this in the howtos (http://pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/pcw.nsf/hthard/2A8792679D4E48C6CC25717A0016519C)Thanks for that link. Interesting.

Re the wiki idea - it's great. Seems that Bruce is happy for it to be part of the PressF1 site, so making a third party site seems unneccesary.

Jen
07-06-2006, 10:32 PM
Re the wiki idea - it's great. Seems that Bruce is happy for it to be part of the PressF1 site, so making a third party site seems unneccesary.Bruce is happy for the Unofficial FAQ Wiki idea created and maintained by the PF1 users actually. It isn't part of the PressF1 site.

Erayd
07-06-2006, 10:42 PM
The wiki is located here (http://imagef1.net.nz/faqf1). Can anyone figure out how to add users to this thing? DanielF was in the process of blocking self-registration, and now he's gone offline. The result of all this is that only DanielF, stu161204 (also offline) and myself are registered on the site. It would be nice to have some help :)

Aha, he just set it so that I can add users. PM me with you email address and I'll add you.

stu161204
07-06-2006, 10:51 PM
Can anyone figure out how to add users to this thing?

I think DanielF was setting up the users manually for now…


The result of all this is that only DanielF, stu161204 (also offline) and myself are registered on the site. It would be nice to have some help :)

You don’t have to do it all tonight ;), I will do some more on it tomorrow & over the next few days… :) & I think DanielF may set-up more users to edit the Wiki over the next few days…

Erayd
07-06-2006, 10:54 PM
He just set it up so that I can add users. PM me with your email address to get added.

zqwerty
08-06-2006, 02:03 AM
Here is a simple Logo, let me know what you want, small version:

http://imagef1.net.nz/files/FaqF1sm.gif

and big version:

http://imagef1.net.nz/files/FaqF1.gif

Greg
08-06-2006, 02:18 AM
Bruce is happy for the Unofficial FAQ Wiki idea created and maintained by the PF1 users actually. It isn't part of the PressF1 site.If it becomes an unofficial PressF1 wiki then it doesn't matter whether Bruce or anyone else approves of it - it can just be done regardless.

Greg
08-06-2006, 02:21 AM
Here is a simple Logo, let me know what you want, small version:

http://imagef1.net.nz/files/FaqF1sm.gif

and big version:

http://imagef1.net.nz/files/FaqF1.gifLousy. Ditch the icky background colour, and make the "faq" font either lower case or upper case, not mixed.

b1naryb0y
08-06-2006, 08:36 AM
My Attempt at a logo

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/FaqF1logo.gif

zqwerty
08-06-2006, 09:12 AM
If you want to make it conform to the current and temporary design trends/fads and end up looking just like every other site churned out by rule followers then go ahead. And as for mixing/nonmixing case sizes, what a load of B.S. Overbrite colors make a site look like a circus, appealing to low attention span morons.

Erayd
08-06-2006, 10:59 AM
I think whatever logo we end up using will need to go with the colour scheme / style used on the Wiki. B1naryb0y, your logo has promise but will need to ditch the background colour - it's way to "in your face". We want visitors to be concentrating on the content, not the logo.

SurferJoe46
08-06-2006, 11:52 AM
The WIKI is good, and there's one that I read and add to every once in a while.

I like the Leo Leporte WIKI because it allows anyone to read it, but only those with the password to edit it.

Now, and I might be very off base here, can there be a password set automatically by a rand(0) generator that gets e-mailed nightly or whatever time span needed to those who are active and really users of F1?

I mean that there's gotta be a way to see those names that are constant features, and those that joined three years ago to just repair or ask about one or two questions. The ones that are always here or are here a lot of the time, should get the password nightly.

The true list of current users can't be all that large...right?

It seems to me that anyone who would misuse the WIKI would only be someone who is already banned or just a casual user and they would not have a password to destroy it.

I cannot imagine anyone who really likes being here spamming or damaging the site. They could be banned or punished by the mods.

Erayd
08-06-2006, 12:25 PM
The Wiki (http://imagef1.net.nz/faqf1/) is already set up so that only registered users can edit. It does not take its credentials from the PressF1 server, so PM DanielF or myself with your email address to have your username added to the Wiki.

The nightly password isn't such a great idea - as there are several different levels of access, such an approach would require re-writing large portions of the MediaWiki software. It would also break edit-tracking, as it currently tracks all page edits by time and username.

b1naryb0y
08-06-2006, 12:27 PM
How about this logo?

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/FaqF1logo2.gif

SurferJoe46
08-06-2006, 12:36 PM
How about this logo?

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/FaqF1logo2.gif


I like that one...not flashy.....looks professional and conservative

Erayd
08-06-2006, 12:46 PM
Perfect! Now we just need Dan to put it on the site (it's his webhost). Unfortunately he's at school, so it'll have to wait until tonight.

Dannz
08-06-2006, 04:59 PM
Logo Added.

Erayd
08-06-2006, 11:37 PM
The FAQF1 Wiki (here (http://imagef1.net.nz/faqf1)) has come a long way in an extremely short space of time, and most of the existing FAQs have been transferred. Thanks to all those who have helped make it a reality.

There are currently six people editing / transferring / writing FAQ pages, and the more the merrier - any help is greatly appreciated, as the more people we have working on it the faster it will be completed.

The main task still needing to be done is going through and updating the old FAQs, checking for dead links etc. It would also be good to write some new ones, and recover some of the FAQ threads that never made it (e.g. the home networking thread that started all this).

Cheers,
Bletch

FoxyMX
08-06-2006, 11:42 PM
I still have all the FAQs in my CardFile so will be able to find and retrieve the "missing" ones quite easily. Will do that over the next day or two in between jobs.

Greg
09-06-2006, 12:04 AM
How about this logo?

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/FaqF1logo2.gif
It's beaut.

stu161204
09-06-2006, 12:06 AM
Make sure you vote for what Press F1 FAQ Wiki Domain name we use: http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=69677

Erayd
11-06-2006, 02:38 AM
The 1am move to the Dreamhost servers didn't go exactly as planned. The result was a wiki that refused to load.

Because we (DanielF & I) don't want to lose edits (by having several different versions of the database) both the old and the new versions are offline. Keep a lookout though - we'll attempt to get it back up and running as soon as possible. We'll be trying a complete MediaWiki reinstall in the morning and see if that fixes the problem.

Once the wiki is functioning properly again, we'll restore the database content and re-enable editing.

Sincere apologies for the downtime.

Cheers,
Bletch

Erayd
11-06-2006, 12:06 PM
The wiki is back! We still have no idea what was wrong with it, but after a fresh install on a different database everything seems to work. It's now online at http://faqf1.dannz.net.

Cheers,
Bletch

stu161204
11-06-2006, 12:49 PM
Some one forget to re add the logo ;)

Erayd
14-06-2006, 08:54 PM
The first version of the new Wiki (http://faqf1.dannz.net) theme has been completed. Please post your comments and suggestions here (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?p=462377).

Cheers,
Bletch

bob_doe_nz
15-06-2006, 12:27 AM
Bletch and co.
I hope you don't mind but I've expanded a bit on the favourite programs bit.

http://faqf1.dannz.net/index.php?title=PF1_users%27_favourite_programs

I felt that Multimedia could use its own category since there's a lot of it.

And maybe system applications could do with one too?

I've taken most of whats been added from the old link and added a few more free programs that might be worth noting.

I've temporarily placed txt files of the list of programs here (http://pages.quicksilver.net.nz/tony.lee.at.home/misc/programs_f/)

Erayd
15-06-2006, 06:22 PM
bob_doe_nz: no-one will mind if you do this kind of thing, unless you're destroying something. That's the spirit of a wiki :-)

Version two of the theme has also been uploaded (comments same place as last time (http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?p=462377)), and the site is now at its permanent home - http://faqf1.net.nz.

Jen
15-06-2006, 07:49 PM
Is it possible to have a print-friendly button for the FAQs? I just tried previewing the print page function in Firefox (under Linux) and it didn't look too flash. For me, it had a border around the body content plus very wide margins which made the text on the page sort of squashed in the middle rather than spread out like normal formatted page. It also ran right off the bottom of the page as well, but that could just be my settings.

Screenshot of Print Preview (http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/faq_print_preview.png).

bob_doe_nz
16-06-2006, 12:22 AM
Bletch...
This is what I get in Opera when I scroll...
http://imagef1.net.nz/bob_doe_nz/files/screenie.JPG

Hmm, FoxyMX on the other hand is having other problems.

Also, how about this logo? (http://imagef1.net.nz/bob_doe_nz/files/TBAR_Copy.png)

Looks a little more like PressF1's but also probably infringes on copyright too :(
Rhubarb Man, I mean Bruce Buckman, can we get your comments on this?

Erayd
16-06-2006, 01:11 AM
Is it possible to have a print-friendly button for the FAQs? I just tried previewing the print page function in Firefox (under Linux) and it didn't look too flash. Cheers for that. It's using the default print stylesheet, but I can certainly change that ;) I'm not too sure why it's going off the bottom like that, but I know it's something I did - it used to work. Gotta fix that...

Erayd
16-06-2006, 01:14 AM
The Opera bug:
To me that looks like Opera isn't rendering floats properly. The 'About' & 'Log In' links are contained in a right-floated div nested inside the main navbar, and therefore should always appear in the top-right of it. All other browsers I have tested this in seem to work that way. Any Opera experts that could shed some light on this (and how to fix it)?

Love the logo, but yes, it probably does infringe copyright. Bruce?

FoxyMX
16-06-2006, 09:38 AM
The Opera bug:
To me that looks like Opera isn't rendering floats properly. The 'About' & 'Log In' links are contained in a right-floated div nested inside the main navbar, and therefore should always appear in the top-right of it. All other browsers I have tested this in seem to work that way. Any Opera experts that could shed some light on this (and how to fix it)?
I think I had this problem with one of my sites once but I can't remember which one and how I fixed it. I will ask on the Opera forums for advice - they are very good there.

bob_doe_nz
18-06-2006, 12:31 AM
Bletch:
Would you consider that PF1 favourite programs (http://faqf1.net.nz/index.php?title=PF1_users%27_favourite_programs) stub complete and removed from the stubs list?

Erayd
19-06-2006, 12:32 PM
Up to you - if you feel it's complete, just remove the {{msg:stub}} from the top of it. It will then no longer be flagged.

FoxyMX
19-06-2006, 12:53 PM
Bletch:
Would you consider that PF1 favourite programs (http://faqf1.net.nz/index.php?title=PF1_users%27_favourite_programs) stub complete and removed from the stubs list?
Complete?

I don't think that FAQ is complete yet. Far from it. :illogical

You can probably remove it from the stubs list if you want to though.