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View Full Version : guys, great news from our friend telecom..



jackyht2002
13-02-2006, 09:16 AM
hey our friend now willing to drop the price for broadband starting april.. see what you think

http://www.telecom.co.nz/chm/0,5123,205112-203090,00.html

i think it is great, i am going to pay on the plan that i am paying now with a 5MB and 3.5Mb download speed

finally, telecom listen our word... looking forward to it!!!

jacky

Metla
13-02-2006, 09:32 AM
uh....The plans are crap.

Basic $29.95 200MB 256kbs 128kbs

None of them represent value for money.

Rob99
13-02-2006, 09:39 AM
2Mb to 3.5Mb who is going to even notice, advertising ploy.

They need to more than double the speed 5-10Mb

Metla
13-02-2006, 09:41 AM
Personally I would like to see them triple the upload speed (at least) and stop trying to pretend that 200mb is worth $30 bucks, or that 1gb is worth $50.

Its a scam, and insulting.

Myth
13-02-2006, 09:55 AM
uh....The plans are crap.

Basic $29.95 200MB 256kbs 128kbs

None of them represent value for money.True.. I personally will still look around at the end of my year (June/July)
Who would you recommend? (looking for nil connection issues [which from what I hear from some counts out Ihug], low latency; basically no issues)

Also: looking for minimum of 20G per month limit, hopefully at 2Mbps, for what Im paying now ($50 per month) or less

Rob99
13-02-2006, 09:58 AM
True.. I personally will still look around at the end of my year (June/July)Thats still a long way off, I would wait to see whats being offered then.

Billy T
13-02-2006, 10:05 AM
I was hoping that they would improve the full-speed plan as well but I phoned and they are being very non-committal at this stage.

At present I pay $79pm for 2-8 mb download and 5-600 kbs upload speeds with a 1 gig cap for my home business. I've been on that plan since 2000 and have only exceeded the cap once, but it does get tight some months.

I am beginning to wonder if I would notice the reduction in speed, and whether it is worth the extra $20 per month. I do a lot of web searching and the extra speed is very helpful, though I do notice major slow-downs when the network is busy.

What is the best speed check site to see what I am actually getting as up/down speeds? If I am not getting the full speed benefit, that helps me decide what I do about it.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Tukapa
13-02-2006, 10:45 AM
Whipdy-poo!

I am going to get upgraded from 2Mbps to 3.5Mbps which I will hardly notice the difference. My upload stays the same, my data cap stays the same and my monthly charge stays the same.

Now that's progress for ya! Pass the Tui.

technophobia
13-02-2006, 10:53 AM
I agree with you all telecoms new plans are crap and not to mention over priced, the only thing i can say which is good news is that by the beginning of next year telecom are going to upgrade their entire network including roadside cabinets reducing from 700 to 200 roadside cabinet for the whole of nz and also by the time thats all done we will be getting broadband speeds of 24mbps a second its a long way off but im looking forward to it.

gibler
13-02-2006, 11:13 AM
I agree, these plans are a waste of time. It costs $20 extra just to get your upload increased to a level they should already be (and then the caps aren't increased).

for $70 (incl their tolls) you can get Ihugs 20 GB (+20 GB offpeak) plan and they don't count the uploads, plus they just throttle you back to 64K.

Those high end Telecom plans are bringing back the "what the hell is this outrageous bill about situations", when people blow their caps (what Telecon are terming 'overage').

Greg
13-02-2006, 12:17 PM
At present I pay $79pm for 2-8 mb download and 5-600 kbs upload speeds with a 1 gig cap for my home business. I've been on that plan since 2000 and have only exceeded the cap once, but it does get tight some months.

What is the best speed check site to see what I am actually getting as up/down speeds? If I am not getting the full speed benefit, that helps me decide what I do about it.
I was on that plan for a while too. But with gaming it was wholly inadequate.

Probably the most reliable place to check your theoretical download speed is www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/speed.

But in real world situations you seem to be getting, like I was, speeds quite lower than that. When I downloaded large files I typically got 3 - 6 Mb/s. And occasionally lower and higher.

So for me, going on to the 3.5 Mb/s will be a pretty noticable increase from my 2Mb/s. But for you, I doubt you'd notice much of a drop. I'd highly recommend looking at one of the new plans with the bigger caps, as long as you went with one of the 512Kb/s upload plans.

bizzack
13-02-2006, 12:19 PM
Everyone seems to be saying i-hug is the best ISP around? I'm just finishing up my one year prison term with Telecon... anyone have any suggestions of who i should rehabilitate with?
I do lots of downloading, and lots of online gaming, so I need a good ISP that goes PING!

bonzo29
13-02-2006, 12:49 PM
I suspect unbundling will never happen and Telecom latest offer will be the last for this year. Other methods of transmission seem to be the only real way of getting world competitive rates.

Anyone know what progress worldwide has been accomplished in the provision of broadband via the electrical mains route?

Trev
13-02-2006, 01:14 PM
How about a 1mb plan of 20gb per month and 512 upload.

Trevor :)

stu161204
13-02-2006, 01:20 PM
These new plans from Telcome suck!! No way in hell are we going to pay $79.95!!!! for 3.5M Down / 512 up :mad: :groan:

Greg
13-02-2006, 01:33 PM
These new plans from Telcome suck!! No way in hell are we going to pay $79.95!!!! for 3.5M Down / 512 up :mad: :groan:Nah they're great. If you use Telecom for tolls, and are an existing Xtra customer, then it's only $59.95. :thumbs:

But I'd still pay $79.95 anyway.

Nomad
13-02-2006, 02:25 PM
These don't interest me. $60 is too expensive.
A $30 or $40 is like my max price but pushing it.
At home generally I use it for downloads and surf thats it really, a single user at home or a 2 user at most.

Having a look at the prices, well it is good to hear if it is correct same price, and you get faster speed, could be better but hey, least something for free compared to yesterday.

Having a look at the prices for my budget nothing has changed 128k upload and 2MB download. $30 for 256k connection, haha and 200MB lol. Nothing has changed for most users IMO thou some computer geeks may be a tad better off as some of those may be more willing to pay a bit more. $40 is only equipped with 1GB traffic. But I guess in a way if its $30 for 256k 200MB its close to some ISPs for flatrate dialup, if you use the 200MB in a few days I guess you still have 64K.

Do existing Xtra customers have access to better prices Greg?

Tukapa
13-02-2006, 02:29 PM
Nothing extra or special for existing customers. I think I even read that existing customers will be swapped over at a slower rate than new customers so that is how much Telecom like their existing clientele.

Greg - for $59.95 I can't see you getting 512 up. I am on the same $59.95 plan and from what I can see we will be stuck at 128 up.

Of couse I could be wrong. It has happened twice in the past. :D

Greg
13-02-2006, 02:48 PM
Greg - for $59.95 I can't see you getting 512 up. I am on the same $59.95 plan and from what I can see we will be stuck at 128 up.

Of couse I could be wrong. It has happened twice in the past. :D
On this (http://www.telecom-media.co.nz/releases_detail.asp?id=3280&page=index) page, look at the Pro Broadband plan @ $79.95. Then note the following extract:

"Existing residential plans will have their download speeds increased to maximum possible speeds of either 2 or 3.5 Mbps. Xtra will be progressively upgrading all current customers to the faster specifications for no change of price"

Tukapa
13-02-2006, 03:22 PM
What I think that means is that as we are on the Adventure plan already they will increase our upload speed to 3.5Mbps but everything else remains the same (including the price). I guess it comes down to individual perception of their wording however I think neither of us will see an increas in our upload speed.

I am hoping you are right but...........

Tukapa
13-02-2006, 03:23 PM
Oops...I meant to say our download speed to 3.5Mbps (wpuldn't that be a nice upload speed!).

They only mention downloads in that little excerpt you have qouted Greg.

maccrazy
13-02-2006, 05:21 PM
Big wow. 3.5MBit is nice to have, but it doesn't address the main flaws in the New Zealand broadband market. One, slow upload speeds, two, small data caps and three, high prices. The cheapest plan is a joke, my family goes through twice that much bandwidth in a day.

The current network can support up to 8Mbit upstream and 1MBit downstream and they don't even offer plans at those speeds. Telecom needs some competition or we will be stuck in the dark ages forever - both price wise and speed wise...

Nomad
13-02-2006, 05:43 PM
IMO you can have tiny and huge priced plans if you so like, those will be the outliners.

But you do imo need a affordable family internet account like a 5GB 2Mbit or 1Mbit plan that pple can check email and surf and do some downloads like a game demo or the windows patch. If this isn't addressed the bulk users are never able to get away from dialup. The avg household prob wouldn't want to pay more than an avg $30 a month for it. I feel that households having a adequate internet connection shouldn't need to have a price tag of Sky TV on it, if one so wishes to have a price tag of Sky TV that should be the BB deluxe package that one wants to obtain. If any kinds of BB connection comes witha deluxe tag then pple will just get something cheaper like dialup, that maybe in NZ dialup is seen as adequate and BB are seen as luxury items I do not know.

200MB for $30 Telecom is silly IMO becos Windows XP Sp2 can blow it up even during the download. Telecom BB plans are not even able to address the current situation of safe internet usage.

maccrazy
13-02-2006, 05:47 PM
But you do imo need a affordable family internet account like a 5GB 2Mbit or 1Mbit plan that pple can check email and surf and do some downloads like a game demo or the windows patch. If this isn't addressed the bulk users are never able to get away from dialup. The avg household prob wouldn't want to pay more than an avg $30 a month for it.I'd say the average household with two teenagers needs a 10GB - 15GB cap, but other than that I agree with you. :)

SolMiester
13-02-2006, 05:52 PM
Yes, cant understand the $30 200MB plan, whats that for? If anything, that should be $30 1GB, 256/128 plan for basic so NZ can upgrade away from dial-up, i would want to see who is gonna take up that plan...lol

stu161204
13-02-2006, 06:10 PM
From TVNZ: http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411319/659962

Telecom broadband offer criticised


Feb 13, 2006

The founder of the internet provider Slingshot has called Telecom's latest broadband speed offer a joke.

Telecom's internet service provider (ISP), Xtra, is to launch new download speeds and pricing on broadband services from April.

New deals will offer the same broadband prices for both business and residential customers, which will mean a big price drop for business customers, Telecom says.

The move follows a Commerce Commission ruling in December on the unbundled Bitstream Service (UBS) and a subsequent commercial agreement between Telecom and TelstraClear.

But Slingshot chief executive officer Annette Presley wants the government and the Commerce Commission to create a level playing field.

She wants to see the process changed so that smaller internet providers do not have to fight larger providers through the legal system.

Telecom's new plans also include download speeds of up to 3.5 megabits per second (mbps) and three new services that offer an increased upload speed of 512 kilobits per second (kbps).

Existing residential plans will have their download speeds increased to maximum possible speeds of either two or 3.5 mbps.

Xtra will be progressively upgrading all current customers to the faster specifications for no change of price, and some plans will move to a lower price, Telecom says.

A new entry level plan will also be introduced, priced from $29.95, providing what the company calls "a dollar a day broadband" for people who want a basic broadband service.

"We want to attract new-to-broadband and new-to-internet customers - and this new Xtra Basic plan will help do that," says Matt Crockett general manager of Telecom's Wired Division.

Telecom will make the speeds available to other ISPs on a wholesale basis.

The new services will be available to customers from early April with existing customers receiving the upgraded speeds progressively from that month on, Telecom says.

Still too slow

Meanwhile, New Zealand's leading IT lobbyist says there's a risk internet access speeds will grow at an unacceptably slow rate if Telecom gets its way in a dispute with Call Plus, Ihug and Orcon.

Telecom Users Association chief executive Ernie Newman says the three ISPs want the Commerce Commission to force Telecom to offer its wires for internet transmission at unconstrained speeds.

But he says Telecom is trying to thwart Commerce Commission intervention by offering access at 3.5 megabytes per second.

Ihug and Call Plus could not be reached for comment but Orcon says it is unlikely to battle Telecom through the Commerce Commission.


Source: TVNZ Interactive/RNZ

maccrazy
13-02-2006, 06:39 PM
A new entry level plan will also be introduced, priced from $29.95, providing what the company calls "a dollar a day broadband" for people who want a basic broadband service.

"We want to attract new-to-broadband and new-to-internet customers - and this new Xtra Basic plan will help do that," says Matt Crockett general manager of Telecom's Wired Division. :lol: :lol: :lol: I think he meant to say: "We want to attract new customers who don't understand how the internet works and then when they blow their tiny 200MB cap (20MB of which will be lost maintaining the connection), charge them 2c per MB until the end of their billing cycle."

Misty
13-02-2006, 07:25 PM
Well, personally I am looking forward to going from my current Explorer plan, which is

256/128 with a 3Gb cap
to
3.5Mbps/128 with a new 5Gb cap --- with no increase in cost

...but then that will meet all my needs for now and speed up my experience exponentially !

However, thinking in terms of the country's overall needs, we do need unbundling very soon !!!!
Misty :stare:

Greg
13-02-2006, 07:56 PM
They only mention downloads in that little excerpt you have qouted Greg. :groan: Mate - look at the Pro Plan column - "3.5M/512K"

taxboy4
13-02-2006, 08:06 PM
:groan: Mate - look at the Pro Plan column - "3.5M/512K"

I'm sticking with IHUG - 40GB + 40GB Heavy user plan - all you can eat - I've been burnt with uncapped plans before and I'm sure IHUG will update their plans with the new speeds this year also.

I find IHUG help, online homepages etc all very good to deal with - though my peer to peer downlaods can be slow...

Still under Telecom i got 3 - 4 days before i ate my 10GB cap and got stuck on dial up for 27 days - would rather pay more and have pretty fast braodband all Month

Go IHUG!!!!

Battleneter
13-02-2006, 08:20 PM
hey our friend now willing to drop the price for broadband starting april.. see what you think

http://www.telecom.co.nz/chm/0,5123,205112-203090,00.html

i think it is great, i am going to pay on the plan that i am paying now with a 5MB and 3.5Mb download speed

finally, telecom listen our word... looking forward to it!!!

jacky


So you are currently being COMPLETLY ripped off now and you are happy that they are providing you a slightly better but still woeful service (128K up) at still ridiculous pricing?

Congratulations with 3.5MB, you can blow your pathetic 5 gig cap in only 3.5 hours at full speed, and then go straight to premium dialup speed you must be so fond of, yea lets all celebrate!

If you torture a prisoner long enough he will be extremely happy when you ease off slightly, you are that prisoner!!

BakugekiNZ
13-02-2006, 08:27 PM
Well, personally I am looking forward to going from my current Explorer plan, which is

256/128 with a 3Gb cap
to
3.5Mbps/128 with a new 5Gb cap --- with no increase in cost

...but then that will meet all my needs for now and speed up my experience exponentially !

However, thinking in terms of the country's overall needs, we do need unbundling very soon !!!!
Misty :stare:


I am in the same situation, and I am quite happy about it! I am fully aware of the fact we are being ripped off, but now I can relax just a bit more regarding cap. I don't know what some of you guys are downloading to get through your 10 GB caps, but since I don't have the desire to download DVDs or whatever is required to DL that much...

So I've gone from disappointed to less disappointed.

LLU plz!


So you are currently being COMPLETLY ripped off now and you are happy that they are providing you a slightly better but still woeful service (128K up) at still ridiculous pricing?

Congratulations with 3.5MB, you can blow your pathetic 5 gig cap in only 3.5 hours at full speed, and then go straight to premium dialup speed you must be so fond of, yea lets all celebrate!

If you torture a prisoner long enough he will be extremely happy when you ease off slightly, you are that prisoner!!

Thats a bit harsh mate! Not everyone needs that much cap, I know I've never hit dialup speeds, that person probably hasn't either.

Battleneter
13-02-2006, 08:39 PM
I am in the same situation, and I am quite happy about it! I am fully aware of the fact we are being ripped off, but now I can relax just a bit more regarding cap. I don't know what some of you guys are downloading to get through your 10 GB caps, but since I don't have the desire to download DVDs or whatever is required to DL that much...

So I've gone from disappointed to less disappointed.

LLU plz!



Thats a bit harsh mate! Not everyone needs that much cap, I know I've never hit dialup speeds, that person probably hasn't either.



It's not harsh at all. I 100% agree not all users need large data caps, but the prices we pay in NZ means we SHOULD get much bigger caps, doesn't mean you have to use a 20 gig cap just because you have it. Don't buy into Telecom BS "most users don't need a bigger cap so we don't provide it".

Its nice to know however you can pretty much do what you want without the fear of being badly throttled, especially at the prices we pay.

Also there is no defence for 128K uploads speeds on any 2MBor above plan, it causes higher latency for online gamers and basically if you want to upload anything forget it? Just Telecom trying to prevent the average user from using VOIP and that's a fact Jack!

ughnz
13-02-2006, 08:41 PM
Umm, it seems to me that people are being blinded by the carrots and not looking at the big picture.

The key to this issue is the TOLLS service, not data.

If telecom is realy keen to make an effort then drop the discount for tolls. This is what telecom fears the government doing, so they are trying to bribe us into keeping things the way they are.

If you wont better broadband, and better competition then look at the WHOLE and not just one part.

maccrazy
13-02-2006, 11:13 PM
I don't know what some of you guys are downloading to get through your 10 GB caps, but since I don't have the desire to download DVDs or whatever is required to DL that much...

Here is an example of how one could use 10GB:

Download a game demo: 500MB
Listen to online radio for an hour or so per day: 2GB
Download two HD movie trailers: 200MB
General usage per day: 150MB x 30 = 4.5GB
Download system updates: 200MB
Download application updates: 200MB
Buy some music online: 300MB
Download a funny video someone sent you: 300MB
Random other things: 1GB

That gets you to 9.2GB of usage quite easily. Now obviously not everyone is going to use that much, but some will use much more. What say they want to download a 1080i movie trailer instead of a 720p one? Or perhaps they use 250MB of data each day for general usage. Throw in a bit of VOIP (which Telecom would understandably be worried about) and it very quickly adds up. I'm not a fan of unlimited or unmetered solutions but a 25GB cap would be ample for most people. :)

Greg
13-02-2006, 11:22 PM
What a pathetic argument. How about don't download trailers and demos, and use an average 20 megs browsing and emails, then 3gigs per month would be more than adequate for most people.

It's a known fact that 90% of Internet usage is used by 10% of people, and most of that is unlawful p2p traffic.

BakugekiNZ
13-02-2006, 11:30 PM
That doesn't seem so crazy I guess...
I average about 100 MB a day, which is pretty good considering my cap is 3GB
I know I would probably download more media if I didn't have to worry about cap.

The cap is what dampens my "broadband" experience (not even actually broadband :|), not the speed, if I think about it.

stu161204
13-02-2006, 11:35 PM
Here is an example of how one could use 10GB:

Download a 2+ GB website account 3 - 4 time due to server issues...

Ninjabear
14-02-2006, 12:09 AM
Telecom new plans still doesn't attract me $150 for the top plan.what a rip off!!

Im going with Ihug!

Barnabas
14-02-2006, 02:46 AM
ok ok, sorry but I just cant resist......I am currently surfing at 8 megs down 1 meg up with no limit and including 40 tv channels through the phone line for 19.95 per month (pounds).

While the tube in london may suck I am loving the internet.

Hmmm, looks like another linux distro is out. Might as well download it....just because I can.

B.

Ninjabear
14-02-2006, 04:40 AM
Lol.SAme..Im in Hk returning to NZ on saturday.Back with dialup for a few days before connecting to ihug 2mbps

Im surfing at 10 megs up and 10 megs down with no data cap.

I watched quite a few cartoons online.

I just updated Norton 10mbs worth of update in a few seconds instead of like waiting unpatiently with dialup.

sam m
14-02-2006, 05:58 AM
Here is an example of how one could use 10GB:

Download a game demo: 500MB
Listen to online radio for an hour or so per day: 2GB
Download two HD movie trailers: 200MB
General usage per day: 150MB x 30 = 4.5GB
Download system updates: 200MB
Download application updates: 200MB
Buy some music online: 300MB
Download a funny video someone sent you: 300MB
Random other things: 1GB

That gets you to 9.2GB of usage quite easily. Now obviously not everyone is going to use that much, but some will use much more. What say they want to download a 1080i movie trailer instead of a 720p one? Or perhaps they use 250MB of data each day for general usage. Throw in a bit of VOIP (which Telecom would understandably be worried about) and it very quickly adds up. I'm not a fan of unlimited or unmetered solutions but a 25GB cap would be ample for most people. :)


yeah riiiggghht - I believe you ;)

At least my friends that are on 10GB plan are honest. They tell me they download movies, music etc and they ***** and moan like most here.

I have 2 comps connected 24/7. Two kids using them constanty online. Windows box set to update automatically and linux box I update regularly downloading different applications sometimes daily.

Yet to hit 3GB and cant see any reason for a faster upload (no movies to share I suppose)

Cant see how anyone can use more than 10GB let alone 5GB.

just started using skype so that might make a difference but time will tell

maccrazy
14-02-2006, 08:57 AM
Opps, you're right sam_m. I meant 10 songs times 3MB each so 30MB not 300MB - now you have another 270MB to do with what you please. ;)

Here are another couple of things that chew through bandwidth:

1) If you have a website (which was mentioned earlier in the thread) and want to make a full site backup once a month, depending on the size of the site, around 500MB of transfer would be needed. Or if you need to upload a large file, even the with the improved upsteam speeds, it is still going to take a while. Now, some people would argue that it affects a small number of people. But say there are 1000 websites in New Zealand earning $5000 per year from ecommerce or advertising, thats a $5 million contribution to the economy. Next you could say, if you are earning $5000 per year, surely you can afford to speed $150 per month on Jetstream. The thing is that it still makes a huge dent in profits and it is harder to be competitive with other international sites. That is just a small example, I believe there are other industries that have far bigger problems with broadband speeds and datacaps.

2) Have you ever used Google Earth? It's a great program for viewing satellite image from around the globe. If you haven't tried it, it's definitely an essential download, though once again, it can use large amounts of bandwidth.

3) Online gaming. I'm not really into it myself (I probably play computer games for about 2 hours total per month), but that wasn't in my earlier list. Bandwidth is needed.

These are just facts, many families may fit within a 5GB cap, but is it unreasonable to expect reasonably priced plans for those that use more? I don't think anyone can expect the same sort of prices as countries with densely populated cities in Asia etc but at the moment the limitations on broadband are too restrictive. :) :2cents:


Im surfing at 10 megs up and 10 megs down with no data cap.
I could get used to that. :p What sort of connection is it though? Cable?

Tukapa
14-02-2006, 09:19 AM
:groan: Mate - look at the Pro Plan column - "3.5M/512K"

Yep - I can read.

All I am saying is I am interpreting Telecoms latest 'offer' different than you are. And seeing as how they haven't actually told us what we are getting yet then either one of us could be right.

From their own website


From early April you will automatically be upgraded to a faster plan - with either a drop or no change to your monthly plan charge.

By keeping us on the Adventure plan they have done this (Have they not? - our download speed has increased to 3.5Mbps for no change in monthly plan)


We will be in touch shortly to let you know of any changes that affect you.

They haven't told us yet what exactly we will be getting.

While I would like to think that your interpretation is correct because I would very much like to be upgraded to the Pro plan for no extra money, I can't see Telecom doing that. To get the 512 upload I still think we would have to pay the extra $20 month.

Why don't we agree to disagree and see what eventuates come April. :o

vodafone
14-02-2006, 09:23 AM
That is a pathetic Move By telecom. They think we are all stupid!! Basic plan which is $29/month has cap of 200MB!!!!!. What a Joke Telecom. I hope the commerce commission rips you apart. I could kill Theresa if see her walking down the street someday.

Greg
14-02-2006, 09:29 AM
All I am saying is I am interpreting Telecoms latest 'offer' different than you are. And seeing as how they haven't actually told us what we are getting yet then either one of us could be right.

From their own website

From early April you will automatically be upgraded to a faster plan - with either a drop or no change to your monthly plan charge.You're arguing against yourself there - why do you have a problem with them either reducing your costs, or increasing your speed? :confused:

[edit]

seeing as how they haven't actually told us what we are getting yetYeah I agree with you there - they weren't 100% conclusive in what their statement said. Although mainstream TV news last night seemed convinced that my viewpoint was correct. (although of course that's News for you - they always "know" better") ;)

bonzo29
14-02-2006, 09:32 AM
Look at this, The mind boggles, more procrastination.
What has this government been doing over the past six years?


"The Government agrees New Zealand is not up to speed on the broadband issue and is promising action, but does not want to rush through changes.

Telecom has announced a new broadband deal which will be launched in April. The new services will provide a download speed of 3.5 megabits per second. At the moment, the top speed is two megabits. A new upload speed of 512 kilobits will be available. Currently, the company offers 128 kilobits.

Communications Minister David Cunliffe says the Government does not want to intervene too quickly, because of the risk mistakes could made, but he says Telecom's new broadband speed of 3.5 megabits is not good enough and comes at the last minute when the Government is starting to talk tough.

But Mr Cunliffe says the knock-on impact of policy changes needs to be considered as the Government does not want to stop Telecom investing in technology."

Greg
14-02-2006, 09:47 AM
Bonzo - those calls by the Government are pretty fair I reckon. If it came to introducing easier access to say, a new "wonder" drug, and things screwed up, well they'd have a lot to answer for.

These things take time, and as I've been proclaiming since early yesterday, it's a significant, albeit not gigantic, step forward for us consumers.

bonzo29
14-02-2006, 09:57 AM
Greg,
A good point, it's important not to be too hasty but hasn't this "wonder drug" been on the world market for some time now with proven results.

stu161204
14-02-2006, 11:12 AM
Some more on this:

Telecom's broadband cut 'overdue' (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10368166)

UPDATE: No faster UBS leaves providers in lurch (http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/28363DAAB75B1F61CC2571140028E35A)

This time from the Govt:

Greens criticise Telecom's broadband move (http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/default.asp?id=59477)

Govt says Telecom's broadband offer not enough (http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/default.asp?id=59482)

PM may signal moves on broadband (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/660281)

sam m
14-02-2006, 01:12 PM
Some more on this:


This time from the Govt:

Greens criticise Telecom's broadband move (http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/default.asp?id=59477)


Read who it was from: Nandor (the druggie who I wonder why the police havent arrested for drug possession yet) Tanzcos

- stopped reading

sam m
14-02-2006, 01:28 PM
Opps, you're right sam_m. I meant 10 songs times 3MB each so 30MB not 300MB - now you have another 270MB to do with what you please. ;)


I was referring to the 'buying' part.


Here are another couple of things that chew through bandwidth:

1) If you have a website (which was mentioned earlier in the thread) and want to make a full site backup once a month, depending on the size of the site, around 500MB of transfer would be needed. Or if you need to upload a large file, even the with the improved upsteam speeds, it is still going to take a while. Now, some people would argue that it affects a small number of people. But say there are 1000 websites in New Zealand earning $5000 per year from ecommerce or advertising, thats a $5 million contribution to the economy. Next you could say, if you are earning $5000 per year, surely you can afford to speed $150 per month on Jetstream. The thing is that it still makes a huge dent in profits and it is harder to be competitive with other international sites. That is just a small example, I believe there are other industries that have far bigger problems with broadband speeds and datacaps.

If I send some pics via email which can be 2 - 3MB each. I dont sit there and watch them go - I agree that it takes a while on 128k but I simply click send and let them go in the background while I do something else. Businesses need faster upload I agree but why do YOU need faster upload is the question.




2) Have you ever used Google Earth? It's a great program for viewing satellite image from around the globe. If you haven't tried it, it's definitely an essential download, though once again, it can use large amounts of bandwidth.


Nope - but even if I did - are you saying that you would spend a considerable amount of bandwith staring at the earth. Is this for study?? I think I might go outside and watch the sky for free.



3) Online gaming. I'm not really into it myself (I probably play computer games for about 2 hours total per month), but that wasn't in my earlier list. Bandwidth is needed.


Spent many an hour playing MOHAA for a few years - lost interest now, but even then I was only on 128k/128k. Nope didnt hit 3GB.



These are just facts, many families may fit within a 5GB cap, but is it unreasonable to expect reasonably priced plans for those that use more? I don't think anyone can expect the same sort of prices as countries with densely populated cities in Asia etc but at the moment the limitations on broadband are too restrictive. :) :2cents:

I could get used to that. :p What sort of connection is it though? Cable?

I agree that you have quoted uses for bandwith but still not convinced that higher caps are necessary. Is it possibly bandwith envy? He's got 10GB so I want 20!! My kids talk like that.

stu161204
14-02-2006, 01:43 PM
Businesses need faster upload I agree but why do YOU need faster upload is the question.

Have you tried uploading a 7.56mb website?? (With 154 files & 3 folders), it tacks a good 10 - 15 or so mins to upload it.

sam m
14-02-2006, 01:47 PM
Have you tried uploading a 7.56mb website?? (With 154 files & 3 folders), it tacks a good 10 - 15 or so mins to upload it.

No, but are you saying that in the 10-15min of uploading you can do nothing else?

stu161204
14-02-2006, 01:54 PM
No, but are you saying that in the 10-15min of uploading you can do nothing else?

Yep, as normally when I do uploading of websites that will be at the end of a job & I have to wait in till itís done before I can do any thing else as I have to include the time it tacks to upload a website.

maccrazy
14-02-2006, 04:57 PM
Businesses need faster upload I agree but why do YOU need faster upload is the question.It's not a huge, huge issue for me, as you said, you can go away and come back later but why should you have to do that when people living in countries similar to New Zealand don't have to. We all know it is possible for New Zealand to have a better broadband service but while Telecom has a monopoly over the telephone lines nothing will change.


Nope - but even if I did - are you saying that you would spend a considerable amount of bandwith staring at the earth. Is this for study?? I think I might go outside and watch the sky for free.That was an example. Is it essential? No it isn't. If I could never use it again, my life would change very little. However, it doesn't take anything away from the fact that as new technology emerges, faster internet access is needed to take advantage of it. For example, you could stream TV through your broadband connection instead of the usual aerial or satellite. You could say there are no suppliers of such a service in New Zealand (apart from R2 which isn't really up to everyday use) but until broadband has the capacity for such services to be viable they won't emerge. TVNZ and Canwest aren't exactly likely to consider such an option while the majority of the country has a broadband cap of 10GB or less.

Graham L
14-02-2006, 05:26 PM
So the ultimate ambition is to have television through a broadband connection.

Oh dear.

Words allowable here fail me.

sam m
14-02-2006, 06:05 PM
Nope - still not getting it. Finish this sentence please.

"I use 10GB+ per month regularly because I legally download............"

Metla
14-02-2006, 06:13 PM
Nope - still not getting it. Finish this sentence please.

"I use 10GB+ per month regularly because I legally download............"


....Whatever I damn feel like.

What are you a failed cop?

You think anyone has to justify anything by you?

Wake up.

sam m
14-02-2006, 06:19 PM
....Whatever I damn feel like.

What are you a failed cop?

You think anyone has to justify anything by you?

Wake up.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Metla
14-02-2006, 06:26 PM
So the ultimate ambition is to have television through a broadband connection.

Oh dear.

Words allowable here fail me.

You do of course realise that the entire push for DRM is directly related to the vision of MS to deliver all media (be that television,movies,music,games,news feeds,) straight to you via broadband, to be displayed on your high end HDTV?

Hell, the Xbox was founded on this concept, Selective television.

Billions upon billions of dollars have been sunk into the project that you are unable to find words to describe.



Not that I would touch it, simple old text and graphic sites do me fine, Have no intention of spending a brass razoo to watch any media content (when I can just steal it.....Muhahahahahaha)

Antmannz
14-02-2006, 06:34 PM
Hmmm.... I can barely believe most of the responses posted here.

About 2 weeks ago, you were all up in arms over an approx. $4 increase in your monthly phone bill.

Now Telecom offer an increase in download speed for free, and a reduction in price for business customers, and all I can see here is "whine, whine, whine".

UNBELIEVABLE !!!

Battleneter
14-02-2006, 07:07 PM
Hmmm.... I can barely believe most of the responses posted here.

About 2 weeks ago, you were all up in arms over an approx. $4 increase in your monthly phone bill.

Now Telecom offer an increase in download speed for free, and a reduction in price for business customers, and all I can see here is "whine, whine, whine".

UNBELIEVABLE !!!


NZ has had to put up with a poor overpriced under spec broadband (a term used lightly)for years now. Yesterday they improved things a little in an attempt to quieten down the growing discontent with there monopoly.

Try getting a clue about the state of broadband in NZ before you get too happy about these measly improvements.

Don't mistake a slight improvement in a cynical attempt to shut you up as a good thing, otherwise the ploy has worked.

Slightly better can still = CRAP!

dwnz
14-02-2006, 07:44 PM
What a pathetic argument. How about don't download trailers and demos, and use an average 20 megs browsing and emails, then 3gigs per month would be more than adequate for most people.

It's a known fact that 90% of Internet usage is used by 10% of people, and most of that is unlawful p2p traffic.

Im not sure if this has already been said, but: The internet has changed. There are people like me who like listening to internet radios and downloading big files, and the 10gb limit doesnt go very far (plus i am sharing it with 4 other people, all downloading and playing games atc)...And the upload speeds are still way to slow...slowing down my website.

And there is nothing about static ip's...so i assume you can still only get them on business plans...

Daniel

maccrazy
14-02-2006, 09:05 PM
....Whatever I damn feel like.

What are you a failed cop? :D Nice one Metla.

maccrazy
14-02-2006, 09:23 PM
So the ultimate ambition is to have television through a broadband connection.

Oh dear.

Words allowable here fail me.

I can guarantee you that it will be an increasingly common option (maybe not here, but overseas) within the next year or two. Some people would say: Why do you need satellite when you can get analogue TV (or whatever they are using at the moment) using a regular aerial? It is the same concept, but an alternative to satellite that is more adaptable to changes in technology. :)

chiefnz
14-02-2006, 10:22 PM
I think the new offerings from Telecom are pathetic to say the least... a 1.5MB/s increase in speed will hardly be noticed by any current 2Mb user. As stated by users on this forum and others in media publications this latest move by Telecom is nothing but a diversion tactic to keep the government off its back... a tactic a lot of people out there are hoping has not worked.

The only way Telecom is going to get any sort of warm reception... and I'm not saying that they would if they achieved this would be to...

1) Increase the download and upload speeds (upload speeds should at a minimum be 50% of the maximum download speed)
2) Remove or increase data caps (increase = at least 2 and a half times the the the size of the biggest data cap available)
3) Lower the price

Also on a personal note I would like to say that it disheartens me that some of the posts were derogatory comments about what other users have to say...

for example (and this is just a random one I chose)

What we all do with our data allowance is our business? Now whether you're a "responsible conservative" bandwith user ir whether you're a normal "raging downloading machine" is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is which ever one you are it wold be nice to be able to do it faster, more often and at a lower price (3 aspects which are very hard to find in any single planned offered.)

So I say to you all...

Rather than slag each other off about what we use our data caps for and asking for justicfication as to why people can't do things this, that or the other way... why don't we concentrate on the bigger picture and join together to improve what we all agree to be a very dismal excuse for broadband internet.

It doesn't matter whether you go through 10GB or not.... it doesn't matter if you don't need a 2Mb upload speed or not and it doesn't matter whether you like watching TV online or not... What does matter is that we can shape things now so that all these are available regardless of whether you want or need them.

And finally my final act of defiance towards Telecom...

TELECOM... YOU SUCK BIG ONES... WE WILL GET YOU... YOU THIEVING SELFISH B#%*!DS!!!!!

Cheers

chiefnz

Myth
14-02-2006, 11:08 PM
Here is an example of how one could use 10GB:

Download a game demo: 500MB
Listen to online radio for an hour or so per day: 2GB
Download two HD movie trailers: 200MB
General usage per day: 150MB x 30 = 4.5GB
Download system updates: 200MB
Download application updates: 200MB
Buy some music online: 300MB
Download a funny video someone sent you: 300MB
Random other things: 1GB

That gets you to 9.2GB of usage quite easily. Now obviously not everyone is going to use that much, but some will use much more. What say they want to download a 1080i movie trailer instead of a 720p one? Or perhaps they use 250MB of data each day for general usage. Throw in a bit of VOIP (which Telecom would understandably be worried about) and it very quickly adds up. I'm not a fan of unlimited or unmetered solutions but a 25GB cap would be ample for most people. :)Incredible load of BS your figures seem to be (its like watching Windows users saying the sky is falling when all that happened was MS were a day late releasing a non-critical patch) ... I especially like the one on using 2Gig for online radio.. nicely exaggerated :)

Sounds like you should PR for Xtra :)

notechyet
15-02-2006, 06:23 AM
Hello

I haven't spend much time reading through this post.
Just want to mention that people like me (rural) and there is quite a number in NZ are totaly disapointed as the main interest for those Telecomunication giants are the centers as there is obviously more money to be made there with ugrading the speed then serving the rest of the country.
Me (and a number of others)being two k's from the telecom exchange is to much for them to do any upgrade so we have to be happy with a "fence wire" alike connection.
I can only hope that the get pusht to change theyr attitude and commitment!

Gion

sam m
15-02-2006, 07:59 AM
....Whatever I damn feel like.

What are you a failed cop?

You think anyone has to justify anything by you?

Wake up.

didnt think so.

Is "whatever I damn feel like" a sign on your shop window? If so lead the way cos I am sure that you would be miffed if I went to your shop and took "whatever I damn feel like"

personthingy
15-02-2006, 11:05 AM
Read who it was from: Nandor (the druggie who I wonder why the police havent arrested for drug possession yet) Tanzcos

- stopped readingStill a valid point Nandor had.

As for "arrest for possession" me thinks your ignorance is showing. Nandor was long ago quoted to say he smokes sometimes, but not when working because it would slow down his head while at work. So where's the possession? Perhaps it's good to consider what people say before writing someone off as a "druggy" simply because someone is honest enough to admit having once smoked.

And oops... all my points are now invalid because even though i nolonger smoke, i did, and i've served time for possession and cultivation.

Feel free to write me off with that great logic of yours.....

As for the Telecom arguement, granted, there's a long way to go before things are up to international standard, but what we are seeing here is an improvement. This is a good thing, right?

The networks basic DSL spec has sped up. I'm sure that means other ISPs will be able to give betterdeals than they have been. All good news me thinks. Much of it it is exactly what people have been moaning for :confused:

Metla
15-02-2006, 11:40 AM
didnt think so.

Is "whatever I damn feel like" a sign on your shop window? If so lead the way cos I am sure that you would be miffed if I went to your shop and took "whatever I damn feel like"


Heh?

That makes sense to you?

You declare people as theives if they are after a service that fits their needs, be it that their requirments are different from yours.

Narrow vision.

And I fail to see how asking if you can steal my goods is related to anything but pure stupidity. Go ahead, You have my full permission to try anything you like.


**Lights up a Doobie, Fires up some Alice in Chains....

personthingy
15-02-2006, 01:56 PM
Here is an example of how one could use 10GB:

Download a game demo: 500MB
Listen to online radio for an hour or so per day: 2GB
Download two HD movie trailers: 200MB
General usage per day: 150MB x 30 = 4.5GB
Download system updates: 200MB
Download application updates: 200MB
Buy some music online: 300MB
Download a funny video someone sent you: 300MB
Random other things: 1GB

That gets you to 9.2GB of usage quite easily. Now obviously not everyone is going to use that much, but some will use much more. What say they want to download a 1080i movie trailer instead of a 720p one? Or perhaps they use 250MB of data each day for general usage. Throw in a bit of VOIP (which Telecom would understandably be worried about) and it very quickly adds up. I'm not a fan of unlimited or unmetered solutions but a 25GB cap would be ample for most people. How diverse! I could easily use up twice my 5 gig telstra-cable cap downloading *nix distros to try on my next machine.

I also managed to blow my friends datacap (telecom/xtra 1Gb) by doing a system upgrade while at her house. D'oh. I updated and pulled over 500Mb's in just over an hours download.

sam m
15-02-2006, 02:42 PM
Heh?

That makes sense to you?

You declare people as theives if they are after a service that fits their needs, be it that their requirments are different from yours.

Narrow vision.


heh? The thieving part is to do with the need to have higher caps. Not that service is either too expensive or too slow.

So far no one has openly said that they need the higher caps for legitimate reasons. If then can justify it, they I would support them, if they cant then what are they crying about?

maccrazy
15-02-2006, 02:45 PM
I especially like the one on using 2Gig for online radio.. nicely exaggerated :)

Sounds like you should PR for Xtra :)My calculation was: 1 hour per day x 31 days x 128/8 = 1.78GB, rounded to 2GB. For people who have their stereo rigged up to their computer, more than one hour per day is probably quite common. :)


How diverse! I could easily use up twice my 5 gig telstra-cable cap downloading *nix distros to try on my next machine.I guess that's why there is so much debate in this thread. Some people don't use 5GB, some are happy with 10GB while others need 20GB or more, but few can understand the other's requirements. :p

Edit:


heh? The thieving part is to do with the need to have higher caps. Not that service is either too expensive or too slow.

So far no one has openly said that they need the higher caps for legitimate reasons. If then can justify it, they I would support them, if they cant then what are they crying about?All of the things I put in the example that has been quoted a few posts above are legit. Our connection usage for the last few days: 534.29MB, 751.18MB, 232.83MB. Illegal content downloaded: None. :)

Organicpete
15-02-2006, 02:51 PM
Still a valid point Nandor had.


Good onya Personthingy :)
The Greens usually make valid points. The almost pathological response they receive from a small minority continues to amaze me. Some people need something to hate it seems.

I hope the people posting in this thread also put pen to paper and send their views to MP Cunnliffe and the PM. (no stamp required)

Pete

personthingy
15-02-2006, 03:03 PM
So far no one has openly said that they need the higher caps for legitimate reasons. Ey what? What is "legitimate reasons"? I thought downloading *nix distros, updating ones computer, picking up emails, surfing the web, and no end of other uses were "legitimate" reasons for wanting broadband that flew..

And for reference, there are such things as legitimate music downloads, just cause some people can't be bothered looking doesn't mean they don't exist.

But each to there own and who are we to judge? I want fast internet for my reasons, and my neighbour may want it for theirs. live and let live.. If we all wanted the same stuff, we may as well just share a CD between us.

But anyway, most of us want faster bigger better broadband with red racing stripes, flames on the side, and a thumping great V8. Our reasons are our own, and i believe there is no debating the "i want" side of the argument. If one wants, one does, simple really :stare:

The only debate is if what one wants is possible, and if telecom are holding back, and what, if anything can or should be done about it.

personthingy
15-02-2006, 03:22 PM
Hello

I haven't spend much time reading through this post.
Just want to mention that people like me (rural) and there is quite a number in NZ are totaly disapointed as the main interest for those Telecomunication giants are the centers as there is obviously more money to be made there with ugrading the speed then serving the rest of the country.
Me (and a number of others)being two k's from the telecom exchange is to much for them to do any upgrade so we have to be happy with a "fence wire" alike connection.
I can only hope that the get pusht to change theyr attitude and commitment!

GionThe entire telecom network is being rebuilt, local exchanges are being removed. Eventually the will be just 17 ( ? ) exchanges feeding the entire telecom NZ network, with fibre links to small metal boxes that form local distribution points for the last K or so. This is happening all over the country, and will mean anyone close enough to a distribution point to have a phone line, will be close enough for DSL. This wont happen overnight, i think its a 3 year plan that was started about 6 months ago.

It will bring telecoms entire network up to the standard that Telstras network is, something that many of us here in CHCH have been enjoying for some years now.

So there you go Gion, your upgrade is on the todo list.

intel hunter
15-02-2006, 03:40 PM
Hi

I have been looking at all the replies on this subject, and while I agree
with some, I don't agree on all. There have been some, (albeit very small)
advances in the past year or two in so called "broadband", but I feel
as long as the present government don't do something more positive, we
are going to stay at the bottom of the heap, as we nearly are now.


All the so called promises by the government so far to "do something" to
make Telecom toe the line have amounted to nothing. Its so easy to say
one thing but mean another. If you have a politician that has a spine and
does something to fix a problem, you normally find he is tossed out, or
relegated to the opposition very quickly. You normally find that any one
worth their salt, is swallowed up by the old boys school, and then become
impotent as to getting anything done.


As to the problem at hand, I am with Orcon 2mb 1 gig autosense, it
doesn't take very long to blow that. In fact I am usually well over by
the time they let me know. And that's just surfing, emails, and updates.
The new plans that Xtra are rolling out begins April 1st, anyone see the
relevance? Seriously though, I feel that it is just a stalling tactic, as
they know that if the pursestrings, sorry, the copper lines are
unbundled, then their monopoly is gone, and I don't think the
shareholders in California would like to lose so much money. The
government would also lose their cash cow.

Metla
15-02-2006, 03:51 PM
heh? The thieving part is to do with the need to have higher caps. Not that service is either too expensive or too slow.

So far no one has openly said that they need the higher caps for legitimate reasons. If then can justify it, they I would support them, if they cant then what are they crying about?

Why do you think anyone has to justify there requirements to the likes of you?

What a bizarre person you must be, The issue is getting a product that is value for money, and extremly limited caps in no way represents value for money, The fact you presume everyone to be theiving is of zero cosequence to the issue.

Zero, as in nothing, not relivant, nada, zip, etc etc.The only thing you are accomplishing is a big slur against others due to your narrow vision.

Cptn Hotshot
15-02-2006, 04:03 PM
Data caps are only a mechanism to screw more money out of the consumer. It serves no real purpose other than to segment the market. It is another play on what they did with dial up ... set a time limit and if you wanted more you paid more ... now look at what they offer on dialup .... basically a free for all.

Im with Metla on this!

Graham L
15-02-2006, 04:19 PM
Data caps are a mechanism to stop greedy individuals putting up the cost for everyone. If you have to pay more to use more, that's a step towards what they call "user pays". User pays seems to be one of the desirable things touted by enthusiasts for the market economy.

You can have more megabits or gigabits. Just be prepared to pay for them. If you want to control this, get the appropriate hardware and buy the bandwidth direct. You can sell what you don't use to your friends. (But they will complain bitterly about the charges unless you subsidise them heavily. Or do as all ISPs do, supply enough people who don't use their full "entitlement" but pay the same, so they subsidise the big users).

Cptn Hotshot
15-02-2006, 04:36 PM
I dont disagree with you, Graham L, but how much is too much?

Currently I am on an Ihug 4GB a month 256/128KB plan for $39.95. I normally use just over 3GB per month. If I move to their 2mb/128 then for the same price I get a 2+2GB (peak/off peak) limit imposed, which I would blow since I dont use the off peak times, resulting in throttled back to 64K.

It is a balance between what is good v what is bad. In my case, to change plans ito get the current higher speed is bad.

The point is that the lower end data caps set are too low and the price is too high.

What Telecom offers is a disgrace to both the consumer and the ISPs they wholesale to.

Greg
15-02-2006, 04:44 PM
What Telecom offers is a disgrace to both the consumer and the ISPs they wholesale to.That's the kind of bollocks I've been reading for two days now.

Put it like this - you don't like Coke? You don't buy it. If there's no other drink on the market, get tap water. But if you want Coke's new Cherry flavour, at a little less cost than Coke, then buy it for the price it's offered at. Too expensive, or not enough in the bottle? Go back to tap water.

It's all your choice wiener.

Metla
15-02-2006, 04:58 PM
Why on earth would you suport unrealistic prices, poor value for money and poor product which only serves to make the rich richer?

personthingy
15-02-2006, 05:07 PM
My uninformed argument on the subject of caps and bandwidth use goes like this.

Theres a stonking great pair of fibreoptic multicore multiband cables linking this country and Ozy to America called the Southern Cross. There are other links from Oz to Europe as well that help feed us, Once it was barely used, and it cost an awful lot of coin to put in, so the few users there were were paying far too much for the bandwidth. Now there is a humungus amount of people connected to the net. There is a humungus amount of people pulling data through these 2 cables that are not yet loaded near capacity.

The link that feed us directly from the states has a capacity of 120Gb/sec. For some time not all the fibres within the cable were even lit up as there was no point. I'm not sure of the current situation, but i suspect we are now finally starting to utalise the cable properly. I'd been real keen on solid facts from anyone who actually knows what they are talking about.

A similar observation could be made of the NZ backbone cables that Telstra and Telecom have, it was once all very underutalised, but population and demands have increased, so the backbone fibre now has a lot more contributors to its running cost.

Most countrys backbone cables have dark (unused) fibre, remember google has been buying it up. so again, there is a system in place with massive capacity that is only now starting to get utalised

Economy of scale suggests that with more users the costs of keeping these cables live are proportionally reduced, and i would expect that to be reflected in the cost to the consumer.

Somehow, this is where its all falling down. :(

Greg
15-02-2006, 05:14 PM
Why on earth would you suport unrealistic prices, poor value for money and poor product which only serves to make the rich richer?Fair question, and easily answered... I support Telecom for the same reason I support Microsoft. I like their products/services; they do their job, and enable me to do my job. At a price I can afford. And they give me a reason for living.

Ok, I lied about the last point... I have other reasons for living. :D

maccrazy
15-02-2006, 05:49 PM
I support Telecom for the same reason I support Microsoft. I like their products/services; they do their job, and enable me to do my job. At a price I can afford. And they give me a reason for living.Telecom and MS (though the courts may disagree) are very different. Microsoft doesn't have exclusive control over CD distribution. If you don't like Windows you can go and buy a Mac or install Linux. If you don't like Jetstream you have no realistic alternative, and no-one else can compete with them as they have exclusive control of the national telephone system.

To put the situation in a different way. Would you be satisfied if you had to pay NZ$150,000 for a car that is worth NZ$30,000 in the US? It is the same car, but one shipping company has exclusive rights over the waterways so no other ships can access the ocean to compete with them. Is this fair? No, if other companies can afford to invest in the industry they shouldn't be restricted because one company was lucky enough to unfairly gain control over the ocean many years ago. In case you aren't following, the ocean is the telephone system. ;)

The question you have to ask yourself Greg is: Are we getting the same value for money as other countries? The answer is no, and I personally don't understand why some people think that we are. True, we have to fund a huge cable that links us to Australia and the US, but in the US they also have to fund their backbones which as just as big, and probably more complex as they have to have a much greater capacity and aren't just a straight cable running from A to B. The reality is that broadband shouldn't cost more than 10% more than elsewhere. If Telecom was really worried about international traffic they would increase the cap for national traffic and lower local data charges to encourage people to host their websites in New Zealand or download from local mirrors. :)

Cptn Hotshot
15-02-2006, 06:34 PM
Fair question, and easily answered... I support Telecom for the same reason I support Microsoft. I like their products/services; they do their job, and enable me to do my job. At a price I can afford. :D
I am pleased you are happy. Stay with what you have got and pay what you do then.

The rest of us are after a better deal out of what is readily available (at a realistic price) but Telecom choses to control and not release to the market. So I guess when the power of the people manages to loosen the strings of Telecom, you no doubt won't come on board and will stay with the inferior offering that you currently have.

Being dominant in the market isnt necessarily good either, mate!
Each to their own.

Nomad
15-02-2006, 08:08 PM
If Greg is right that means the average family and thus the avg houshold will just not adopt broadband internet. The avg household isn't going to spend $60 or $80 for a monthly access to internet.

DangerousDave
15-02-2006, 08:15 PM
If Greg is right that means the average family and thus the avg houshold will just not adopt broadband internet. The avg household isn't going to spend $60 or $80 for a monthly access to internet.

I promised myself I was going to avoid this debate because it always leads to the same retarded arguments. None the less, broadband is a luxury item, since when was playing computer games and downloading pr0n needed for the average family. We have needs, which the average family should be satisfising before broadband.

Ninjabear
16-02-2006, 05:59 AM
Even though some may say that overseas has such and such and nz has nothing like overseas and tells other to move elsewhere nz instead.I hear alot of people comparing australian broadband but NZ does have to compete with australia.

NZ and broadband in Nz does have to compete against australia and the rest of the world.There are some businesses which require broadband.

If NZ don't have the potential to compete with the rest of the market at least telecom should provide us a decent broadband .


Im sure most of the average families isn't able to afford $60-$70 for broadband internet.

I certainly wouldn't be able to afford $90 for ihug 40+40GB plan unless I share the connection against 3 other people in our flat.

maybe if I lived in a hostel i would let people use my internet by giving them a wireless usb adaptor and hook it up with a router and ask them if they do require broadband they can pay me $10 a month.

I am waiting to see whats to come later this year..


Hopefully we will see something interesting