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The_End_Of_Reality
09-11-2005, 03:17 PM
Hey guys.

I have a random question (or two) about water cooling.

What are the benefits of water cooling and are they large?

If it goes wrong and leaks wont it damage your system?

Thanks in advance for your input :D

bob_doe_nz
09-11-2005, 04:08 PM
I don't use water cooling so I don't know...

SurferJoe46
09-11-2005, 04:26 PM
I have water cooling on this setup...and I think it is great for the hot Summer months here (reverse of NZ?..can't get the idea that Winter is hot and summer is cold!~)

Anyway...I haven't had any trouble with it in 4 years. I am not a gamer and just play with OC for fun. I originally used cooler air from under the house to cool the system with a 120 VAC squirrel cage blower under the house supplying air to the side port of the tower. I quit after the musty smell got too strong.

Water coolers like most everything else are proportionate in quality with money paid. As such, and since I got mine for free...ahem!....There are a few different styles and I don't offer any professionalism here, but the water for mine circulates thru the small freezer compartment of the wetbar sized refirgerator I have here in this room. I can get temps down to 40F very easily.

There isn't any condensate formation here and that might not be the rule in high humidity areas. Living in a semi desert with little or no actual air moisture might not be the same in a seaport town or tropical rain forest.

Hope any of my blather helps even a little.

Metla
09-11-2005, 04:30 PM
In NZ winter isn't especially cold , summer is pretty crappy, Nothing that really could be called hot, we may have a few warm days, but not many....

techie
09-11-2005, 04:50 PM
In NZ winter isn't especially cold , summer is pretty crappy, Nothing that really could be called hot, we may have a few warm days, but not many....
Not sure about you, but I'm hot as anything here (Auckland). It's not sunny.. just rather humid... hate it!

As for watercooling, I haven't heard anyone tell me their pipes burst or anything like that yet. But unless you're doing heavy overclocking, there is little point in it.

SurferJoe46
09-11-2005, 04:51 PM
HEY! I have one reason for not using water cooling.........

The PSU discharge heats the room where the tower is and I don't have to open the heat vents here...saves a little on heating bills.

Prescott
09-11-2005, 04:51 PM
depends if where you are for winter ;)

this year it was an abnormally hot winter.

Metla
09-11-2005, 04:52 PM
hmm....Spent near 5 years in Aussie, Makes our hot days look lame.

I remember jumping in the pool at 3 in the morning to cool down, and finding the water temperture was like a hot bath.....

chiefnz
09-11-2005, 05:08 PM
Why do you want to use a water cooling setup?

It's not neccessary if you're not a hard core over-clocker or benchmarker.

Despite the high quality of water kits today the only thing I will say is this...

Water and Electicity DO NOT play well together!!!

cheers

chiefnz

SurferJoe46
09-11-2005, 05:20 PM
I agree chief...but a toy is still a toy.....even though I am not a clocker or a gamer, it is kinda fun just for the sake of learing new and different things.

Having 8 200 gig hdds is kinda crazy too...but I'll probably never fill them up with movies and music either.

It's kinda like having a really hot Chevy engine, overbored .125", big cam and 13.5:1 compression ratio that gets 2 miles per gallon with a pair of quads and progressive linkage and a 3,000 RPM stallspeed convertor...........it's FUN!

Greven
09-11-2005, 07:08 PM
One of my friends used to use water cooling, but he went back to air cooling because maintaining the water cooling was too annoying. He kept getting air bubbles in the pipes.

lazydog
09-11-2005, 07:40 PM
I used to use water cooling but i kept sucking up the water.....Oh, we're talking about computers :D

The_End_Of_Reality
09-11-2005, 08:08 PM
Why do you want to use a water cooling setup?

It's not neccessary if you're not a hard core over-clocker or benchmarker.

Despite the high quality of water kits today the only thing I will say is this...

Water and Electicity DO NOT play well together!!!
I was just looking at different cooling possibilities but it seems the best is still plain old fans :D

Thats true i am going to OC my new comp but not to the point where i need water cooling i doubt and the risk of leakage is too high.

You couldn't be more right about that :p

vapo
09-11-2005, 09:50 PM
By the time you've spent that money on watercooling gear you could've just bought yourself a faster CPU.

It's good for a while though, it's interesting to set up and you can overclock further. It can get annoying later on with the high maintenance, and even worse if there is a leak.

If you want a system that just works day to day without much effort then watercooling isn't really what you want.

DangerousDave
10-11-2005, 12:41 AM
I'm guessing that it'll be quieter as well. A bigger CPU is gonna mean a bigger fan (probably), if you're looking for quiet it'll work. Then again, loud music works just fine to fix that problem.

Greven
10-11-2005, 08:43 AM
Water cooling isn't that much quieter - you just move the huge fan from the CPU to the radiator.

SurferJoe46
10-11-2005, 02:19 PM
Does anybody know the name of the electronic devices that generate cool............er......or rather remove heat? :waughh:

I saw them online once and forgot to bookmark the site...but they run on electricity, mount on the chips and cool them like a refrigerator.

Graham L
10-11-2005, 02:23 PM
IBM used water cooling on some mainframes because they had to. There was so much heat to get out of some of their modules that air couldn't do it. It was very expensive. Cray used Freon cooling on some of their supers. It was very expensive.

Some radio transmitters use water cooling, to get rid of kilowatts. The more advanced installations boil the water, because that removes much more heat.

Air is cheapest and if it leaks nothing gets damaged.

Greven
10-11-2005, 05:23 PM
Does anybody know the name of the electronic devices that generate cool............er......or rather remove heat? :waughh:

I saw them online once and forgot to bookmark the site...but they run on electricity, mount on the chips and cool them like a refrigerator.

I know what you are talking about, but I'll be buggered if I can spell it. It uses phase change cooling right?

SurferJoe46
10-11-2005, 07:18 PM
IBM used water cooling on some mainframes because they had to. There was so much heat to get out of some of their modules that air couldn't do it. It was very expensive. Cray used Freon cooling on some of their supers. It was very expensive.

Some radio transmitters use water cooling, to get rid of kilowatts. The more advanced installations boil the water, because that removes much more heat.

Air is cheapest and if it leaks nothing gets damaged.

I saw a Cray once and it was cooled by liquid nitrogen..a lot cooler that freon by far at -195.79 C, -320.42 F. The US Navy was leasing the unit from Cray as they could not afford to buy it! Imagine that!

The "tower" was the size of a hassock in a hotel lobby..round and about 5 foot tall...even looked like a hassock too. The circular boards were placed in positions to minimize the length of hard wires to and from the various components. The whole tower was kept cold as possible to get closer to 0 Kelvin..still a long way off from that...but the idea is that the colder the chips, the faster they worked.

bob_doe_nz
10-11-2005, 08:06 PM
Now who voted yes I wonder :annoyed: :badpc: :p

Metla
10-11-2005, 09:04 PM
A computer as BIG as a thick clump of grass or a footstool?

Uh.......doesn't sound jaw dropping impresive, I have a couple here easily big enough to be a foot stool.....

SurferJoe46
11-11-2005, 05:21 AM
A computer as BIG as a thick clump of grass or a footstool?

Uh.......doesn't sound jaw dropping impresive, I have a couple here easily big enough to be a foot stool.....

Yeah Met, I wasn't impressed either.

I was working for a cryogenic gasses company (Paul Division of Air-Reduction, later of Airco) in Buena Park and the bigwigs needed another driver to deliver 3,500 gallons of LNOx to a government facility in San Jose, to a naval installation.

I got picked as lowest man on the roster (because the overtime wasn't that big for me anyway), and we tanked up and delivered it.

We got a nice semi-tour of the place and I actually saw the Cray behind glass from about 30 feet away.

It was indeed not impressive. It was round and had what looked like the cushions on one of those round hassocks one sees in the lobby of a hotel. It was about 5 or 6 feet tall and in diameter, about 8 or 10 feet...just like a round resting place in a major hotel lobby. It was chrome and deep red in color...but that might have been lighting too. Here's a picture (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/~lsmarr/photos/kids%2520in%2520cray.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/~lsmarr/photos/supercomputers.html&h=358&w=500&sz=40&tbnid=BmrszLIIMRMJ:&tbnh=90&tbnw=127&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcray%2B%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3 D%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG) of it for you to see.


That wasn't the support stuff for it, as the liquid nitrogen was in large tanks under the deck and I saw the tape areas. The tapes were huge...about 2 feet in diameter and they looked like the typical mad scientist's laboratory except there weren't any spark generators. Everything was spotless and glass or chrome.

All-in-all, the room it was in was rather small...not counting the tape/data areas and the high ceiling. There were some military guards and they were heavily armed....and a few white coats walking around slowly. I guess I was in a visitor's galley of some sort...there was glass between the antiroom I was in and the Cray.

This (http://http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/~lsmarr/photos/kids%2520in%2520cray.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/~lsmarr/photos/supercomputers.html&h=358&w=500&sz=40&tbnid=BmrszLIIMRMJ:&tbnh=90&tbnw=127&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcray%2B%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26lr%3 D%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG) looks like the one I saw, and this MIGHT be the same room...but I guess they all look the same anyway.

Like I said, it wasn't all that impressive. I was running C>64's at that time and I was eagerly looking forward to this moment..what a let down!

SurferJoe46
11-11-2005, 05:24 AM
That second link is somehow wrong...sorry! I didn't do it!