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symiggy
17-10-2005, 11:23 AM
I go through this mental exercise every time I need to upgrade my system.
Although I am by no means an expert, all the experience that I do have with computers is with PC, and this is probably true for most computer users in NZ.
However both my brother and his wife are professional photographers and they swear by their Macs. And literally beg me to change to that format every time I'm in the market for a new system.
I would really appreciate hearing the views of the experts on this forum since I have found their comments and suggestions very helpful in the past.
Thanks.

Metla
17-10-2005, 11:34 AM
Depends on why they insist a Mac is better.

Generally you will have to spend at least twice as much money on a Mac to get one with the same capabilites of a PC. The upgrade path is limited and expensive, Repairs generally have to be done through the proper channels so they too will be expensive if required.

They are only as stable as a good quality XP computer,and in many cases less so.Some find the OS more intuitive.Software is limited and you generally either end up forced to use what Apple iforce on you as part of the bundle or shell out big bucks.

I would suggest you ask them to list why they think you should switch...

Rob99
17-10-2005, 11:46 AM
Would also help to know what you want your new computer to do. Play games, email and surf, word processing, software development, movie making, music making, etc

symiggy
17-10-2005, 11:48 AM
Metla: I would suggest you ask them to list why they think you should switch...

They are both heavily into graphic manipulation (being photographers) and they feel that Macs excel in this department, this is not however particularly relevant to my situation, but they also stress that they find Macs more stable and reliable and less vulnerable to various malware that stalks the Web and I really do not have the experience to argue this one way of the other since all my personal experience is with PC.

symiggy
17-10-2005, 11:53 AM
Would also help to know what you want your new computer to do. Play games, email and surf, word processing, software development, movie making, music making, etc

Rob99:

Essentially a bit of everything.
Email and surf mainly.
Also Word processing, image manipulation and movie making, Power point presentations etc.
But in fact nothing really high powered.

mark c
17-10-2005, 11:55 AM
It al depends on what peeps have already asked above.

What do you want to use it for?

For graphics editing Macs are the way to go - is what I've always undersood.

I kind of think Mac enthusiasts get to a be bit like Scientologists, not in the sense of being brainwashed but that they have found The One True Path.

I only know one person with a Mac and he's a zealot. Whenever I talk to him about comps all I get is Mac Mac Mac. :2cents:

http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=23442&highlight=Mac+or+PC

...........is a thread here about the same topic.

mark c
17-10-2005, 11:56 AM
It al depends on what peeps have already asked above.

What do you want to use it for?

For graphics editing Macs are the way to go - is what I've always undersood.

I kind of think Mac enthusiasts get to a be bit like Scientologists, not in the sense of being brainwashed but that they have found The One True Path.

I only know one person with a Mac and he's a zealot. Whenever I talk to him about comps all I get is Mac Mac Mac. :2cents:

P.S. Try a search here at Pressf1, lots of threads just like this.

symiggy
17-10-2005, 12:02 PM
Mark c: I only know one person with a Mac and he's a zealot. Whenever I talk to him about comps all I get is Mac Mac Mac........

This is exactly my experience with my brother and his wife, but they are so adamant about the virtues of Macs, that whenever I'm in the market for a computer I wonder if I'm missing something somewhere.

Metla
17-10-2005, 12:09 PM
Macs have no advantage over PC's when it comes to photo-manipulation, they are neither faster at it or have better software.

Going back to the first post I made, you will have to sepend far more on a Mac to get one that is comparable to a PC.Modern hardware takes this sort of task in its stride without breaking a sweat. And there is of course many free tools for the PC user, from the excellent Picassa2 right through to the Gimp.

Macs are less at risk from the nasty crap you get off the net, so you will have to spend 15 minutes a month doing maitenece on a PC, or just Factor Nod32 into the purchase.. Some users allow their systems to be trashed but I think their naivety is a large factor.

I would suggest you buy a good quality PC for a couple of grand and spend the $2000 saved from not buying a MAc on a holiday......Muhahahahaha.

symiggy
17-10-2005, 12:15 PM
Metla:

Thanks for your words of wisdom.
I will probably get a system based on a AMD64 chip since PCs are all I'm familiar with... but it's always good to know that the experts are of the same opinion.

Metla
17-10-2005, 12:23 PM
Just remember we haven't heard from the Mac-heads yet....

Edward
17-10-2005, 01:17 PM
/me smacks head on wall

why must we go through this again?

Anyway, there's nothing special about a mac other than "security" which justifies the large price

qyiet
17-10-2005, 01:50 PM
Upsides for me:

Malware.. Macs are technically a bit less vunerable than windows, but much more obscure, so are much less targeted.

The other trick is the "pretty" factor. In my opinion not so much for the OS X. But for the box itself. I'm considering getting a mac mini as my next PC, mostly because it's tiny, will surf the web and play WoW.

This is a frontroom PC, and I realise I could have a much bigger/noiser PC which would do the same thing for approx 1/2 the price. But it would be better suited for the office than the front room.

Downsides I don't think people have mentioned yet:

Compatability:
Some stuff just dosn't work with macs. This is not apple's fault, just some hardware never had drivers created, and some software cannot be aquired. Small market, lots of work to make it happen. Some manufactures just don't care. (Autodesk, I'm looking at you)

Relearn time:
If you are happy with how stuff works on a WinXP and feel you know your way around, be aware that you will be dropped back in newbie land when you start to use a new OS..

-Qyiet

Rob99
17-10-2005, 01:52 PM
I have seen some of my photoshop files opened on a kick-arse mac in a print shop, I created the files in photoshop on a PC, they opened them up in the same version of photoshop but on a mac, not only did my PC open the 100+Mb files faster but rendering another background on my PC takes around 30seconds to 2+minutes on the mac.

And if you are just a general user you will get better value for money out of a PC.

As Metla has suggested if you add NOD32 you will have no security issues either.

Edward
17-10-2005, 02:00 PM
The other trick is the "pretty" factor. In my opinion not so much for the OS X. But for the box itself. I'm considering getting a mac mini as my next PC, mostly because it's tiny, will surf the web and play WoW.

But then again you can always get a Shuttle pc which still has the ability to be customised in the same way any PC can, yet still retain the modern sound system look :cool:

Shortcircuit
17-10-2005, 02:12 PM
You could look at it this way- a Mac is the Audi of the computer world, it's got a nice badge, just made with VW parts :D

Rob99 is right, there is NOTHING that a Mac can do better than a PC, it's just how you look while you do it that matters.

qyiet
17-10-2005, 02:30 PM
But then again you can always get a Shuttle pc which still has the ability to be customised in the same way any PC can, yet still retain the modern sound system look :cool:Yeah I know, but by the time I do that I have lost the price advantage, and the shuttles are still twice the size.

Mind you the sort of shuttle I would build up would be a whole lot gruntier than a mini :) edit: and cost more than twice as much as a mini.. once I start with building my own, I have trouble stopping :p

-Qyiet

mark c
17-10-2005, 02:40 PM
I think it all boils down to this............

If you're a Mac enthusiast, get a Mac.

If not, get a PC.

Have a play on the macs your rellies have got, see if you like it, if you're blown away by the wonders of it, then you will be a mac enthusiast, so the decision will be easy.

Cicero
17-10-2005, 04:15 PM
Waiting to hear what the rellies say is so much better.

gibler
17-10-2005, 06:46 PM
From someone who has a jaded view of both (yep I support both and to be honest I don't care what someone uses).

The mac - Pros:

- Virus/Spyware free - completely negated if you know what you are doing with Windows
- OS X allows you to easily install stuff as packages (or you just copy the app to whether you like, no dll hell etc). No registry stuff.
- More attractive gui (??)
- UNIX tools available
- Software/hardware is under tight control by Apple, so fixing problems shouldn't be hard.

The mac - Cons:

- They aren't cheap and you really need to spend more to buy Applecare (i.e. extend the piddly 1 year warranty to 3 years). Having said that gettting stuff repaired isn't an issue (as long as you are near a Applecare repair outfit).
- The users can spend loads of time getting their mac to play nice with PCs (much better these days)
- Some of their designs annoy me e.g. one memory slot in a mini mac.
- Using OS X and fixing problems is very different from Windows.
- The printing system (CUPS) can be niggly.
- Apple's marketing dept. spreads a lot of FUD.
- Not a gaming platform

I won't go into the Pro and Cons of Windows/PC too much.
The PowerPC Processor hasn't been improving much as late, Athlon 64s will easily beat Macs. Just about all hardware will have drivers for Windows.

Wait and see what happens when OS X on Intel based macs goes mainstream. I'd myself, just like to see Apple not bringing out new operating systems so often.

To sum up: PCs and Macs are just different :)
Try not to be a zealot, as you will bore people to death ...

Elephant
17-10-2005, 07:59 PM
Mark c: I only know one person with a Mac and he's a zealot. Whenever I talk to him about comps all I get is Mac Mac Mac........

This is exactly my experience with my brother and his wife, but they are so adamant about the virtues of Macs, that whenever I'm in the market for a computer I wonder if I'm missing something somewhere.

I would suggest you look at what software you currently run.
Is there a Mac equivalent which of course there will be but not in all cases.
I know a Guy I built a computer for (PC) so he could run various Flight Sims. He went overseas and I sold this computer for him on his behalf. While overseas he bought a Mac and spent a lot of money on emulators so he could run MSFlightSim 1997. Needless to say he had problems so I built him another (PC).

Check out what investment you have in your Operating System plus all software which runs under that O/S.

Can you afford to replace all the software?

We have not yet got to the learning curve for a new O/S have we?

As Metla says and I agree in this case. You will get more bang for your buck from a PC.

When buying a new PC I would suggest you go for IBMPC compatible and not for a name brand in general. (Price for a Dell I can't match right now there again underpowered IMHO) Ensure you get all CDs with the computer more particulaly the Motherboard drivers and the Operating system.

If you really need to upgrade it makes sense to me to keep all software and your current hard drive and also your current CD or DVD and floppy if you need it. Modem, Sound card etc.

Change the motherboard, CPU and Ram to suit.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Forgot to say the Mac users don't appear to be here in large numbers so maybe if you have one you won't need help. Possibly they don't own up and just take it back to a Tech.

Elephant
17-10-2005, 08:10 PM
Just remember we haven't heard from the Mac-heads yet....

And I have to admit that we are quite unlikely to.
They are about 10% of computer owners and they never go wrong do they!

bob_doe_nz
17-10-2005, 08:49 PM
I know I'm going to be flamed/toasted/beaten to a pulp for this...

But reading threads in other computer forums about M$ v.s Linux or MacOS, some of these REAL die hard Linux users really sound like Macsters...

When you think about it in many cases they say things similar to them...
e.g
They are really quick to defend their position on using 'nix
"My computer is invunerable to viruses"
"Its gonna pwn M$"
etc etc
:2cents:
(/me Waits for the buckets of poo)

plod
17-10-2005, 11:42 PM
Well I guess is everyone has been waiting my reply, so hear goes
1) don't listen to your brother/sister inlaw, get them to show you why they think you should change. I can give you lot's of reasons but they will all get shot down on this forum wether they arewrong or right, so I won't bother
2) Asking that question in a windows orientated forum is always going to tell you windows,
3)If you have to get the opinion from people you don't know to make an informed decision on a purchace, its not going to be informed?
4) IF you have a lot of money invested in the windows platform, you probably better staying there
5)If I was buying one at the moment thiss would be my choice (http://store.apple.co.nz/public/product/group.php?pgid=AP01)

Metla
17-10-2005, 11:58 PM
Plod's link should convince just about anyone not to buy a Mac.

Sue
18-10-2005, 07:54 AM
There may not be so many of us but most Mac users just use their computers rather than spending hours downloading the latest patches, trying to get rid of the latest spyware / malware / viruses etc on Windows PCs and using much of their computers speed running antivirus software.

Learning your way around a new OS isn't difficult. I didn't have a problem and neither did my 70 year old friend when switching to Mac after many years on Windows.

I have & use Mac OSX 4 (Tiger) and XP Pro SP2, the PC is gathering dust in the corner because the Mac suits me.

Those who make their living fixing up PCs are not going to suggest buying or using a Mac. Metla is NOT unbiased nor does he have much if any experience using a Mac full time.

Use a Mac for a while, see if it suits you and check that the software you need is available. You can always use VPC to run windows software if you actually have too ~ I don't have any on my Mac, not needed.

Better yet wait for the Intel Macs and run Mac, Linux & Windows on the same box if you know what you are doing.

Greven
18-10-2005, 08:41 AM
I haven't used a mac in a couple of years, but last time I tried one, I got really frustrated with the fact that a whole lot of mac developers designed their menus around the assumption that noone was going to bother plugging in a 3 button mouse. It gets really annoying when the right click menu is useless, or even non-existant.

plod
18-10-2005, 08:56 AM
been using a tree button mouse now for a couple of years with no problems, what os was Greven? maybe os9, and even that you can use a multibutton mouse

Safari
18-10-2005, 09:46 AM
symiggy - you have the perfect opertunity to compare the two systems with access to Macs.
Most of the comments on this thread are by people with little or no experience using Macs and only the opinions from those people who use both Macs and PC's can be considered useful.

Although many business users require Windows-specific applications that won't run on the Mac, a good percentage of Windows users today require only very basic services, including word processing, email, and Web browsing. These needs are well served by a Mac or even by a Linux-based PC, both of which are arguably safer today than Windows machines.

Do your own research and make an informed opinion.
Start with this link
http://www.apple.com/switch/

Read this article from Paul Thurrott who is a Microsoft man
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Windows/Article/ArticleID/47086/47086.html

Read some of the comments at the bottom of the article from people who actually use macs such as this one.

People are switching to the mac in a two-step process. First, they start thinking about it because of (in order of importance): (1) Windows security nightmare, (2) good experience with iPod/iTunes/iTMS, (3) hear good word of mouth from mac users (also good press reviews).

Then, they go look at the mac and decide to do it. Why? Main reason - they now realize for themselves its simply BETTER MADE and does everthing they want to do BETTER and EASIER.
The only people sticking with windows after they see the mac are gamers; DIY/geek/knowledgeable types that like the added flexibility; paralyzed people that are too afraid to change; corporate types that have to have an "IBM" like they use at work

Metla
18-10-2005, 09:47 AM
LMFAO.

Cicero
18-10-2005, 09:50 AM
LMFAO.
I don't think that quite covers Saf's post. :)

plod
18-10-2005, 10:16 AM
I have seen some of my photoshop files opened on a kick-arse mac in a print shop, I created the files in photoshop on a PC, they opened them up in the same version of photoshop but on a mac, not only did my PC open the 100+Mb files faster but rendering another background on my PC takes around 30seconds to 2+minutes on the mac.

And if you are just a general user you will get better value for money out of a PC.

As Metla has suggested if you add NOD32 you will have no security issues either.
Unless you can quote the spec's of each machine, that is pretty mush useless imformation. It's like saying a ford is faster then a holden only to find out the holden is a base model and the ford is there top model

Metla
18-10-2005, 10:27 AM
Better off compareing the price rather then the specs.

Cicero
18-10-2005, 10:50 AM
Better off compareing the price rather then the specs.
Both Saf and I don't agree and if your argument only runs to LMFAO,then I think our argument is won.

Metla
18-10-2005, 11:10 AM
Both Saf and I don't agree and if your argument only runs to LMFAO,then I think our argument is won.

heh?

Apple quoted customer fluff pieces are a joke,worthless and weak, Not worthy of anything more then mockery. To say that most users tasks are so lightweight that you should spend double on an under-powered Mac is madness.

And Mac specs and workrates will always be less then a PC, so to compare specs is reduntant, See what you get for your money and then hit them up side by side.

$2000 PC VS $2000 MAC, hell, lets swing it to Apples favour, $2000 PC VS $4000 Mac, The PC will still crush it,Kill it, and deficate on it.

Rob99
18-10-2005, 11:36 AM
Unless you can quote the spec's of each machine, that is pretty mush useless imformation. It's like saying a ford is faster then a holden only to find out the holden is a base model and the ford is there top modelI cant post any specs of the MAC :( but a ford will never be faster than a Holden no matter what the specs are.

Greg
18-10-2005, 12:51 PM
Symiggy's just gotta face the facts, that Macs are only for pretty boys and those other users that simply don't know better.

Eg, just because Macs are purportedly a little less susceptible to virus and hacking damage, does that mean you never go out onto the harbour unless you're in a bloody navy frigate?

BIFF
18-10-2005, 01:01 PM
I have owned both platforms. Macs are nice as they are a complete package, all the hardware and software just works out of the box. I would recommend one for my mother who just wants a computer to do her work on. PCs have so many damn things that can be configured. If they were cars the Mac would be a Rolls, the PC would be some tacky boy racer car that goes 'pish' when they change gear, and a dash with engine management gadgets all over it.

The fact is however that I gave away the Mac to a loving home and only use PCs now. Guess it's because my frankenstein PC is super fast and I deep down like tweaking the thing constantly.... so don't go thinking I'm a Mac fanboy, I just can see the appeal of Macs to some people.

Graham L
18-10-2005, 01:07 PM
Bloody hell, Greg. :groan: I am absolutely certain that a lot of "pretty boys and those other users that simply don't know better" use PCs, too.

The difference between Apple Mac computers and IBM PCs is that they are different. That's it. That's all there is to it.

WHY DO PEOPLE PERSIST IN THESE STUPID SLANGING MATCHES?

What people use first will usually be their preference. It's the one they can use most naturally and easily, (or "least" unnaturally).

Symmigy: Your relatives like the Mac. They're used to it. If you are used to the PC, you are not obliged to change. Agree to differ. ;)

Metla
18-10-2005, 01:15 PM
The difference between Apple Mac computers and IBM PCs is that they are different. That's it. That's all there is to it.





When there is over a thousand (or 2) dollars difference i think its safe to say there is more to it then they are just different, If you got the same capabilities for the same price then thats all it would come down to,whatever floats your boat.

What sort of person would recomend you spend more and recieve less?

Probally the sort of person that quotes marketing fluff as a rebuttel......

Safari
18-10-2005, 01:45 PM
Calm down Graham- it is not a slanging match, it is a discussion on a forum where peoples opinions are shared.

"What people use first will usually be their preference"
Not true. They use what is thrust in front of them. For eg people don't use IE because it is their preference, it is because they are not aware of any other alternatives and it is only through forums like this that they are made aware of other programs or systems which can make their computer experience more enjoyable.

Symmigy has a mind of his own, he is aware he is not obliged to change, he was wanting some opinions and information on whether he should change.
Discussions about other operating systems and programs can be very helpful for a lot of people and makes them think about what they are using and whether alternatives are viable for them.

Graham L
18-10-2005, 02:12 PM
Discussions of the relative "merits" of Apple and Microsoft OSs are a waste of time. As I said, the OSs are different. End of discussion. Or it should be. If carried on, they frequently degenerate to ad hominem attacks on the proponents of the "other" OS. What are you talking about? "I like X because it's faster"/"I don't like X because it's slower"/ "X doesn't do Y" / "Yes it does"/ "No it doesn't"/ "Does"/ "Doesn't" ...

I am firmly of the opinion that those who start their computing with Apple Macs usually find the Mac user interface easiest. Those who start with MS will usually find that easiest. It's not easy or intuitive to switch between the two. I started using computers before either, but I find MS (marginally) easier to use because CP/M-DOS was copied from OSs which I was familiar with. But "a plague on both their houses". ;)

Browsers and other applications can often be be fruitful subjects of discussion. But even then, the "discussions" too often become more like
religious wars than a rational presentation of facts.

Safari
18-10-2005, 02:24 PM
easy[/b] or intuitive to switch between the two. .

Thats nonsense Graham, can't agree with that.
I use both Macs and Windows and have no trouble switching between the two as does my daughter who easily uses both. Most of the Mac users on this forum are also regular users of Windows systems. I know dozens of other people who use both and have no problem using either system

Graham L
18-10-2005, 02:34 PM
Did you miss the word "usually"?

It doesn't apply to you, so it can't apply to anyone, so must be "nonsense"?

By the way, the vast majority of computer "users" are not regular denizens of this or any other computer forum?

I'll do a C.B. here, and "unsubscribe" from this thread.

plod
18-10-2005, 05:26 PM
I'm hoping either Metla or one of the other pc builders in the forum would instead of rattling off stuff like it's overpriced and that sort of carry on, could take a little bit of time to carry out a small exercise for me
1)price up a shuttle pc (no mouse, keyboard, or monitor)with similar specs to the superdrive macmini link is here (http://www.apple.co.nz/hardware/macmini/techspecs.php) , the pc should be 32bit running xp home
2) the same as above, but with imac either the 17 inch or 20 inch, link here (http://www.apple.co.nz/hardware/imac/techspecs.php) ,this should be 64bit processor with either xp pro or xp 64bit, and including monitor keyboard and mouse.
The prices need to be for somebody that walks off the street and not for yourself or a mate..
I am genuinely curious, thanks if I get any replys

Elephant
18-10-2005, 06:26 PM
Plod's link should convince just about anyone not to buy a Mac.

It may be that I am actually scared of a Mac. I can deal with almost any PC including Laptops when it comes to upgrading.

I don't wish to get anywhere close to a Mac in case I get infected.

Buy a Mac. They never go wrong do they?

Well if you want a Mac go buy one. It is your money after all.

Metla
18-10-2005, 06:41 PM
I'm hoping either Metla or one of the other pc builders in the forum would instead of rattling off stuff like it's overpriced and that sort of carry on, could take a little bit of time to carry out a small exercise for me
1)price up a shuttle pc (no mouse, keyboard, or monitor)with similar specs to the superdrive macmini link is here (http://www.apple.co.nz/hardware/macmini/techspecs.php) , the pc should be 32bit running xp home
2) the same as above, but with imac either the 17 inch or 20 inch, link here (http://www.apple.co.nz/hardware/imac/techspecs.php) ,this should be 64bit processor with either xp pro or xp 64bit, and including monitor keyboard and mouse.
The prices need to be for somebody that walks off the street and not for yourself or a mate..
I am genuinely curious, thanks if I get any replys



No,go do your own research, No trained seals here, And if your unable to do the groundwrk then your just as unable to aprciate the results.Besides, there aren't any new systems avaolable as underpowered as the minimac.....

But here is a start.

http://www.computermedic.co.nz/items.php?item_id=640

plod
18-10-2005, 06:58 PM
No,go do your own research, No trained seals here, And if your unable to do the groundwrk then your just as unable to aprciate the results.Besides, there aren't any new systems avaolable as underpowered as the minimac.....

But here is a start.

http://www.computermedic.co.nz/items.php?item_id=640
20inch Imac looks a bargain comparing it to your link similar speed processors,
I can't see how your argument stands any more after posting that link?
P.S.. I think the manufacturer link is broken because it keeps going back to the assemblers webpage

Elephant
18-10-2005, 07:19 PM
Symmigy has a mind of his own, he is aware he is not obliged to change, he was wanting some opinions and information on whether he should change.
Discussions about other operating systems and programs can be very helpful for a lot of people and makes them think about what they are using and whether alternatives are viable for them.

How do we know whether this person is Male or Female? Are you assuming?
My main point is whether the change is viable.

There is no reason to change anything unless the change will give an advantage.

Personally I see no reason to change from WipXPPro SP2. It works for me.

That is the main point, If it works then do not fix it.

There again. If there is a perceived advantage then there may be a need to change.

Edward
18-10-2005, 07:21 PM
maybe because he made it? :illogical

Anyway, does the iMac have 2gb of RAM? What about 400gb of hard drive? 5.1 speakers? How about a top of the line graphics card with 256mb of ram? 5 button scroll mouse? No? I'm sorry, I'm failing to see the "bargain" element

Metla
18-10-2005, 07:48 PM
20inch Imac looks a bargain comparing it to your link similar speed processors,
I can't see how your argument stands any more after posting that link?
P.S.. I think the manufacturer link is broken because it keeps going back to the assemblers webpage

Wallow in your ignorance, The linked comp would slay the G5.

Nice call with the Manufacturer/assembler link though, Granted it only reloads the page because its a dead end.

Perhaps I should change that link on the system listing to assembler.....

plod
18-10-2005, 07:59 PM
maybe because he made it? :illogical

Anyway, does the iMac have 2gb of RAM? What about 400gb of hard drive? 5.1 speakers? How about a top of the line graphics card with 256mb of ram? 5 button scroll mouse? No? I'm sorry, I'm failing to see the "bargain" element
No you are quite wrong edward, he assembled it, he had no input into the design of any of those componets, if he did my apologies, but then he wouldn't be living in wanganui.
His has no builtin wifi,bluetooth. My question wasn't what his most expensive pc was, It was what would one with similar spec's.\
I thought the pc builders around here would have taken up the challenge just for the sake of proving me wrong and justify there continued arguments against the mac.....
Not to get away from the original posters questions it would have been a good excersise for him/her to see

Elephant
18-10-2005, 08:00 PM
[QUOTE=Safari]Calm down Graham- it is not a slanging match, it is a discussion on a forum where peoples opinions are shared.

"What people use first will usually be their preference"
Not true. They use what is thrust in front of them. For eg people don't use IE because it is their preference, it is because they are not aware of any other alternatives and it is only through forums like this that they are made aware of other programs or systems which can make their computer experience more enjoyable.

OK should I use a Burroughs 3500 and program this in COBOL as I did in the early 1970s?

I got dragged kicking and screaming into Windows as I worked and that was from MSDOS 6.22 into Win 3.11.

The interesting part as usual is that you need to learn more.

The Burroughs 3500 I used to program is now only a memory.

As you say there are alternatives.

It occurs to me that people can buy what they want.

plod
18-10-2005, 08:01 PM
Wallow in your ignorance, The linked comp would slay the G5.

Nice call with the Manufacturer/assembler link though, Granted it only reloads the page because its a dead end.

Perhaps I should change that link on the system listing to assembler.....
I don't disagree with you Metla but my point was for something with similar spec's or price
P.S you should really stop Edward from answering questions for you

Safari
18-10-2005, 08:04 PM
maybe because he made it? :illogical

Anyway, does the iMac have 2gb of RAM? What about 400gb of hard drive? 5.1 speakers? How about a top of the line graphics card with 256mb of ram? 5 button scroll mouse? No? I'm sorry, I'm failing to see the "bargain" element

Not everyone wants or needs 2gb of ram or 400gb hard drives.
The type of things some of the regular forum members get involved with may require specs like that but for the average computer user they are not required. I do everything I want with only 256 of ram.

I would rather have a 20in widescreen iMac for $2700
http://www.magnummac.co.nz/iMac/iMacG5.html

than this one for $4600
http://www.computermedic.co.nz/items.php?item_id=640

But that is only my opinion as it suits my requirements, others may need higher specs and are prepared to pay more.

Metla
18-10-2005, 08:12 PM
I don't disagree with you Metla but my point was for something with similar spec's or price
P.S you should really stop Edward from answering questions for you

The video card in the system I linked to represented approx $1200 of the cost,reduce that down to the equilivent Video card in the G5 system you linked to earlier, remove the game,and your a few hundred cheaper then the G5 you linked to, and still miles ahead on overall specs.....

plod
18-10-2005, 08:18 PM
The video card in the system I linked to represented approx $1200 of the cost,reduce that down to the equilivent Video card in the G5 system you linked to earlier, remove the game,and your a few hundred cheaper then the G5 you linked to, and still miles ahead on overall specs.....
O.K for the stupid, and yes thats me, what do you call miles ahead on overall specs,

Cicero
18-10-2005, 08:22 PM
The video card in the system I linked to represented approx $1200 of the cost,reduce that down to the equilivent Video card in the G5 system you linked to earlier, remove the game,and your a few hundred cheaper then the G5 you linked to, and still miles ahead on overall specs.....
You have a good point there Met,I doubt there is a counter argument to your well reasoned exposition.

plod
18-10-2005, 08:32 PM
You have a good point there Met,I doubt there is a counter argument to your well reasoned exposition.
Symiggy stated what his needs were and it wasn't for a $1200 graphic's card to play games with.
I think you missed the point to the exercise I had asked Metla and any other pc builder to do, I also think metla missed the point so you are foregiven

Cicero
18-10-2005, 08:41 PM
Symiggy stated what his needs were and it wasn't for a $1200 graphic's card to play games with.
I think you missed the point to the exercise I had asked Metla and any other pc builder to do, I also think metla missed the point so you are foregiven
I think Symiggy has been well answered and you are now complicating the issue,we must keep things simple,don't you think. :)

plod
18-10-2005, 08:49 PM
I think Symiggy has been well answered and you are now complicating the issue,we must keep things simple,don't you think. :)
Yes you are right, Symiggy has been well answered with a whole lot of rubbish from both sides of the fence, hence my question..
Metla really doesn't need you bloating his ego either it doesn't answer questions and is no help to anyone tring to :p
Exposition "part of a play or work of fiction in which the background to the main conflict is introduced" is probably a much better meaning to the word in thisthread

qyiet
19-10-2005, 05:14 PM
Well you lazy buggers, I tried it, and did the maths.

Here is my iMac G5 20" vs the Metla BF2 special. (http://www.quietbox.ath.cx/media/non-wow/Summary.htm)

A couple of points here.

I got all my pricing from the apple US store, the computer medic website, or the techpac (NZ wholesaler) RRP.

I only added to the starting packages: I did not downgrade anything.

I did not look for bargins, I took the first part I found that was about the same.

I apologise for the bad formatting.. this was done quickly.

My summary: pricing is similar, although by the time you get it to NZ it would probably cost a lot more to go apple.

-qyiet

plod
19-10-2005, 05:41 PM
Well you lazy buggers, I tried it, and did the maths.

Here is my iMac G5 20" vs the Metla BF2 special. (http://www.quietbox.ath.cx/media/non-wow/Summary.htm)

A couple of points here.

I got all my pricing from the apple US store, the computer medic website, or the techpac (NZ wholesaler) RRP.

I only added to the starting packages: I did not downgrade anything.

I did not look for bargins, I took the first part I found that was about the same.

I apologise for the bad formatting.. this was done quickly.

My summary: pricing is similar, although by the time you get it to NZ it would probably cost a lot more to go apple.

-qyiet
Cheers for the hard work, So it basicly show's spec for spec mac's arn't more expensive to own, seems the pc builder already new this so didn't bother answering as it would have blown thier theorys out of the water

Metla
19-10-2005, 05:43 PM
Uh....I cant view your page properly in IE or firefox.

And to be fair if your going to use american pricing for the Apple then you should do the same for the PC parts.....

plod
19-10-2005, 06:11 PM
ok i did mine from the apple nz site using 2gig of ram similar spec's to Qyiet's one.
Items in your basket Item Code Qty Remove Unit Price Extended Price
iMac G5 20" APPMA064X/A NZ $3,099.00 NZ $3,099.00
1GB PC2-4200 DDR2 SDRAM (533Mhz) iMac G5 Oct 05 AESSTA-IMACG533/1G NZ $342.68 NZ $685.35
Service Charge MISCSTORELAB 1 NZ $50.00 NZ $50.00
Battlefield 1942 Deluxe Edition AES618870106403 NZ $99.95 NZ $99.95
LaCie - 250GB d2 Extreme Triple Interface Hard Drive AES300790A NZ $545.63 NZ $545.63
Protection Plan Enrolment Kit iMac/eMac APPM8851FE/B NZ $309.00 NZ $309.00
Shipping NZ $20.00

Total. NZ $4,808.93
Your Personal Reference *

2 gig of ram is an option, apple's price for a 2gig stick is very high

Metla
19-10-2005, 06:23 PM
and still bundled with an 8x speed optical drive and a last generation CPU?

When I get time ill spec out a system that is similar to the first one you linked to, Though Im thinking I should use a Socket A cpu to match tech levels....

Elephant
19-10-2005, 06:24 PM
Thats nonsense Graham, can't agree with that.
I use both Macs and Windows and have no trouble switching between the two as does my daughter who easily uses both. Most of the Mac users on this forum are also regular users of Windows systems. I know dozens of other people who use both and have no problem using either system

The word "intuitive" really gets up my nose.

What does this mean?

You know what you have to do before you do it!!! Rubbish.

I just like using software that allows me to acheive a result.
My software in that I have a considerable investment in allows me to do just that.

I will admit that I did not like changing from MSDos 6.23 to a windows environment but the fact remains that I did. I still have a MSDos program (Terminate) that still runs here under WinXP.

plod
19-10-2005, 06:28 PM
and still bundled with an 8x speed optical drive and a last generation CPU?

When I get time ill spec out a system that is similar to the first one you linked to, Though Im thinking I should use a Socket A cpu to match tech levels....
hmm, yours has only a 19inch monitor with lower resolution, last generation cpu? still current so I will call it current generation cpu same as your one.

Elephant
19-10-2005, 06:39 PM
ok i did mine from the apple nz site using 2gig of ram similar spec's to Qyiet's one.

2 gig of ram is an option, apple's price for a 2gig stick is very high

Have you figured in prices for support as well? If I were presented with a Mac I would not know where to start.

plod
19-10-2005, 06:46 PM
Have you figured in prices for support as well? If I were presented with a Mac I would not know where to start.
I didn't know either when I got mine, just did what I did when I got my first windows system, looked at it for the first day then started exploring.
As far as support concerned thats what can be used forapplecare (http://www.apple.co.nz/applecare/default.php)
or forums, you your self is either here to offer or ask for help, same stuff for a mac

Metla
19-10-2005, 06:58 PM
hmm, yours has only a 19inch monitor with lower resolution, last generation cpu? still current so I will call it current generation cpu same as your one.


Makes no difference what you want to call it, Its not a great CPU.

The G5 has a nice screen, though those high resolutions are beyond useless, And I do wonder what happens when it starts to dim,gets stuck pixels or develops a fault....do you then just dump the entire system?

Makes less sense then a combined VHS/TV....

Standing_Amazed
20-10-2005, 01:31 AM
Having used PCs for years I bought a Mac Mini last Friday. I have a Shuttle which I use for games and I wanted something sererate for serious stuff. OSX 10.4 seems to have every thing I need except for a real office suite, so I downloaded Open Office for it and now my serious machine has it all.

It was on special and it cost only $899 for the 1.4 model - that's 1.4 ghz in Mac land not PC land. It feels snappier than my PC which runs twice as fast. When I got the wee beastie home I connected it to my network and powered on. I was presented with a few pages of questions and within less than 10 minutes I was cinnected to the internet and downloading my email. Sweet.

It's a quarter the size of my Shuttle and nearly silent. The Mini lives on a rimu writing desk in the lounge, connected to an LCD screen and cordless mouse and keyboard - the whole thing looks clean and sexy.

Apples blurb that "it just works' is certainly true. it's many years since I sat in front of a monitor and made little cooing noises - there's so much that's cool and fresh and new after using Windows.

For those of you who reckong thatr upgrades are impossible I had the thing apart and a new stick of DDR ram installed within minutes - any techie could do it, even Metla!

I really think that if you haven't owned bot a PC and a Mac then you're in no position to judge which is the better system. I will keep the Shuttle for games simply because of the vast range of games available, but for office stuff, emails, surfing etc it's the mac Mini all the way for me. I don't know about being brainwashed, but who is it that finds it so hard to leave Windows for a newer, brighter life without registery woes?

qyiet
20-10-2005, 08:49 AM
Uh....I cant view your page properly in IE or firefox.Sorry about that Metla, It was only kinda working for me in firefox, and I had to get going.

Here is a pdf (http://www.quietbox.ath.cx/media/non-wow/General.pdf), it should work better for you.


And to be fair if your going to use american pricing for the Apple then you should do the same for the PC parts.....

I realise that you havn't seen this yet because that first link was not loading. right, but for the US pricing, I put a conversion from USD to NZD at the bottom, (which was cheaper than the BF2) but to make a more accurate picture of what would happen in NZ I also took the pricing ratio between US base mac, and the NZ base mac and applied that to the USD total. Needless to say the price I got out of it was not cheaper (thanks renassiance for looking after you customers, thats why we love you :mad: )


hmm, yours has only a 19inch monitor with lower resolution, last generation cpu? still current so I will call it current generation cpu same as your one.

Plod, before you get too carried away explaining how wonderful the extra inch of screen space is, remember that the BF2 still has a huge video card in it, that the G5 can't match.


-Qyiet

Metla
20-10-2005, 09:14 AM
It was on special and it cost only $899 for the 1.4 model - that's 1.4 ghz in Mac land not PC land. It feels snappier than my PC which runs twice as fast.

Right, You have managed to configure your "twice as fast PC" to run slower then a minimac and you think to give me stick?...ROFLMA.




For those of you who reckong thatr upgrades are impossible I had the thing apart and a new stick of DDR ram installed within minutes - any techie could do it, even Metla!

The words used were limited and expensive.


As for the Minimac, Its a nice little niche product, Would probally buy one for my granny.

Metla
20-10-2005, 09:39 AM
Alrighty

The G5

NZ $3486
20-inch widescreen LCD
2.1GHz PowerPC G5 processor
512MB memory (533MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
250GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load 8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon X600 XT graphics with 128MB DDR memory

Upgrading it to 2GB is a whopping $2,313.06, Presumibly plus GST, Guess that must me a limitation of the motherboard, They only reasoning I can see for it is if the supplied Mobo just can't take 2GB and has to be upgraded to a model thats less the suck. Well worth asking at your local Apple dealer before you make a purchase.

If its just price rorting then why would anyone take their bizzo to them?

The Optical drive is an 8-Speed, Love to see the reason for that, most probally just so they can charge an extra $400 for a 16 speed drive. Is it dual layer?, no idea, thats probally another $400 as well.

The CPU (as illistated by the fallout and the move to Intell) is underpowerd in relation to todays hardware, Stuck in last generation.

Nice screen though, I still haven't been told what the Apple fan does when it starts to dim,die or develops a defect.

Whoa, What a deal, Quick, Throw them as much money as you can, They just work (i would expect better but meh). I can't imagine the day I ask a car salesman how good the latest Falcon is and get told "it just works".Lmao.

Alrighty, So how to spec up a machine that uses a last generation CPU,512mb ram, An outdated DVD drive and match it up with a screen that will take the entire rig down with it if it breaks?

***, I would even sell such a pile of crap, even if it did manage to "just work".

Safari
20-10-2005, 09:57 AM
Having used PCs for years I bought a Mac Mini last Friday. I have a Shuttle which I use for games and I wanted something sererate for serious stuff. OSX 10.4 seems to have every thing I need except for a real office suite, so I downloaded Open Office for it and now my serious machine has it all.

It was on special and it cost only $899 for the 1.4 model - that's 1.4 ghz in Mac land not PC land. It feels snappier than my PC which runs twice as fast. When I got the wee beastie home I connected it to my network and powered on. I was presented with a few pages of questions and within less than 10 minutes I was cinnected to the internet and downloading my email. Sweet.

It's a quarter the size of my Shuttle and nearly silent. The Mini lives on a rimu writing desk in the lounge, connected to an LCD screen and cordless mouse and keyboard - the whole thing looks clean and sexy.

Apples blurb that "it just works' is certainly true. it's many years since I sat in front of a monitor and made little cooing noises - there's so much that's cool and fresh and new after using Windows.

For those of you who reckong thatr upgrades are impossible I had the thing apart and a new stick of DDR ram installed within minutes - any techie could do it, even Metla!

I really think that if you haven't owned bot a PC and a Mac then you're in no position to judge which is the better system. I will keep the Shuttle for games simply because of the vast range of games available, but for office stuff, emails, surfing etc it's the mac Mini all the way for me. I don't know about being brainwashed, but who is it that finds it so hard to leave Windows for a newer, brighter life without registery woes?

I must congratulate you for being so honest with your comments.
If any of us Mac users say things like that here we get comments like this.

"Apple quoted customer fluff pieces are a joke,worthless and weak, Not worthy of anything more then mockery. To say that most users tasks are so lightweight that you should spend double on an under-powered Mac is madness"

Hopefully your post will go some way to convince people that what we say are not fanatical outbursts but actual personal experiences based on using both Macs and Windows systems.

Metla
20-10-2005, 10:08 AM
The would be true if I had just pasted in comments from an XP marketing page......

Anyhow, feel free to counter anything I have said (do it properly, links to a Mac promotional page doesn't cut it) I realise I am as one sided as the Mac heads so a balanced view is welcome.

My view of the G5

Poorly speced
Poor value
Poor design

Your personal view that "its just great" doesn't hold much water....Im still yet to see a single benifit above the fact that its not targeted by malicious code.

Safari
20-10-2005, 10:08 AM
Right, You have managed to configure your "twice as fast PC" to run slower then a minimac and you think to give me stick?...ROFLMA.





The words used were limited and expensive.


As for the Minimac, Its a nice little niche product, Would probally buy one for my granny.

LOL Metla.
Your credibility will suffer if you keep on with trying to justify every inaccurate comment you make.

plod
20-10-2005, 10:09 AM
Alrighty

The G5

NZ $3486
20-inch widescreen LCD
2.1GHz PowerPC G5 processor
512MB memory (533MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
250GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load 8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon X600 XT graphics with 128MB DDR memory

Upgrading it to 2GB is a whopping $2,313.06, Presumibly plus GST, Guess that must me a limitation of the motherboard, They only reasoning I can see for it is if the supplied Mobo just can't take 2GB and has to be upgraded to a model thats less the suck. Well worth asking at your local Apple dealer before you make a purchase.

If its just price rorting then why would anyone take their bizzo to them?

The Optical drive is an 8-Speed, Love to see the reason for that, most probally just so they can charge an extra $400 for a 16 speed drive. Is it dual layer?, no idea, thats probally another $400 as well.

The CPU (as illistated by the fallout and the move to Intell) is underpowerd in relation to todays hardware, Stuck in last generation.

Nice screen though, I still haven't been told what the Apple fan does when it starts to dim,die or develops a defect.

Whoa, What a deal, Quick, Throw them as much money as you can, They just work (i would expect better but meh). I can't imagine the day I ask a car salesman how good the latest Falcon is and get told "it just works".Lmao.

Alrighty, So how to spec up a machine that uses a last generation CPU,512mb ram, An outdated DVD drive and match it up with a screen that will take the entire rig down with it if it breaks?

***, I would even sell such a pile of crap, even if it did manage to "just work".the 2 gig of ram is when yiu max it out to 2.5 gig only having two slots.
you can put in two 1gig sticks at a fraction of the cost if you bothered to read my post

Metla
20-10-2005, 10:11 AM
Thats nice Plod, I'm happy for you.

So the G5 does use a budget board that only has 2 ram slots.

Nice.

Safari
20-10-2005, 10:20 AM
The would be true if I had just pasted in comments from an XP marketing page......

Anyhow, feel free to counter anything I have said (do it properly, links to a Mac promotional page doesn't cut it) I realise I am as one sided as the Mac heads so a balanced view is welcome.

My view of the G5

Poorly speced
Poor value
Poor design

Your personal view that "its just great" doesn't hold much water....Im still yet to see a single benifit above the fact that its not targeted by malicious code.

The comment I pasted was actually from Paul Thurrotts site and not an Apple site. You are aware who he is I take it.
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Windows/Article/ArticleID/47086/47086.html

Metla
20-10-2005, 11:24 AM
I know who he is, Didnt care for him or his work before or after that opinion piece, I don't partulary care for Windows or OSX, my points were price (value for money) specs , performance and design.

People may think intergrating the computer into the screen is a nifty idea, I consider it sacrificing pratical thinking for image.I wouldn't touch any system produced by any company with that design

Anyhow,A similar specced machine to Plods G5 link, 1 inch smaller screen, better optical drive,better motherboard, better cpu,Better GPU, better performance,better value for money, better price.

AMD K8 64bit Athlon 3500
512mb DDR 400
iCute Case w/400 PSU
Gigabyte Nforce 4 Motherboard
Ge-Cube X700 D3 PCI-E 256MB TVout DVI
Lite-on 16x dual Layer DVD-Writer
Seagate 250GB 7200.7 S-ATA
Philips 190S6FB 19" LCD

$2450

Well, that still leaves a good $1000 difference if you wanted to buy a 20" lcd, if you remove the 19" lCD that frees up another $600 for that extra inch.

qyiet
20-10-2005, 01:26 PM
the 2 gig of ram is when yiu max it out to 2.5 gig only having two slots.
you can put in two 1gig sticks at a fraction of the cost if you bothered to read my postUm.. not true plod. The *old* iMac G5s had 2 ram slots, with a max of 1 GB per slot.

The new ones have 512 of not removable ram and 1 ram slot that can accept a max of a 2GB stick of ram. so you can't use a new iMac G5 with 2x1GB ram sticks.

-Qyiet

qyiet
20-10-2005, 01:32 PM
...
People may think intergrating the computer into the screen is a nifty idea, I consider it sacrificing pratical thinking for image.I wouldn't touch any system produced by any company with that design
... *blink* ... like say any laptop or tablet PC manufacturer ever?

edit: sorry, I think I misread that.. I thought you ment you would not touch a system made by a company that had made, at some time or other, a computer that was intergrated into the screen.

-Qyiet

Metla
20-10-2005, 01:37 PM
The exception being laptops.....

qyiet
20-10-2005, 01:38 PM
The exception being laptops.....Apologies, see the edit above.

-Qyiet

qyiet
20-10-2005, 01:52 PM
Anyhow,A similar specced machine to Plods G5 link, 1 inch smaller screen, better optical drive,better motherboard, better cpu,Better GPU, better performance,better value for money, better price.

AMD K8 64bit Athlon 3500
512mb DDR 400
iCute Case w/400 PSU
Gigabyte Nforce 4 Motherboard
Ge-Cube X700 D3 PCI-E 256MB TVout DVI
Lite-on 16x dual Layer DVD-Writer
Seagate 250GB 7200.7 S-ATA
Philips 190S6FB 19" LCD

$2450

Well, that still leaves a good $1000 difference if you wanted to buy a 20" lcd, if you remove the 19" lCD that frees up another $600 for that extra inch.


Your video card is still on the hevey side, you need to add:
a 640x480 webcam (the motorised one I used was a abit over the top),
a IR remote (I don't know where you would look for this on it's own)
a couple of firewire ports
wireless lan
bluetooth.


if you want a phillips screen with the same res as the G5 try the

20" WSXGA LCD widescreen monitor
200W6CS/00

Philips site won't link directly (sorry)

-Qyiet

Standing_Amazed
20-10-2005, 02:55 PM
Right, You have managed to configure your "twice as fast PC" to run slower then a minimac and you think to give me stick?...ROFLMA.


Once again you wear your ignorance as a badge of honour ;) The actualy CPU speed cannot be compared that simply, nor can the amount of RAM, so we're not comparing apples to apples. My new Mac Mini doesn't have the same amount of crap that windows has, therefore it doesn't require the same speed or RAM to outperform my Shuttle. It is also cooler, quieter amd smaller that the Shuttle (which was already small, quiet and small in the first place.

Is anyone else concerned that 90% of consumers are conned by salemen to think that speed is the be all and end all? Your typical home user (who doesn't want to play games) really only needs a computer around the 1ghz mark - but as a salesman Metla will ridicule that idea.

You should either experience a Mac for yourself or accept that you're not qualified to comment in this thread. Please stop this childish "mine is better that yours" attitude. They're both great for different reasons.

Metla
20-10-2005, 03:03 PM
Once again you wear your ignorance as a badge of honour ;) The actualy CPU speed cannot be compared that simply, nor can the amount of RAM, so we're not comparing apples to apples. My new Mac Mini doesn't have the same amount of crap that windows has, therefore it doesn't require the same speed or RAM to outperform my Shuttle. It is also cooler, quieter amd smaller that the Shuttle (which was already small, quiet and small in the first place.

Is anyone else concerned that 90% of consumers are conned by salemen to think that speed is the be all and end all? Your typical home user (who doesn't want to play games) really only needs a computer around the 1ghz mark - but as a salesman Metla will ridicule that idea.

You should either experience a Mac for yourself or accept that you're not qualified to comment in this thread. Please stop this childish "mine is better that yours" attitude. They're both great for different reasons.



Can I call you an idiot?

You sir are an idiot.

I am well aware of the performance of the CPU's and the overall systems, that is without any consideration of the clockspeed. Nor do I or have I ever sold any CPU based on its clockspeed alone.


If you need any advice on how to configure your shuttle then just ask.

Biggles
20-10-2005, 03:13 PM
Can I call you an idiot?

You sir are an idiot.

Mav vs PC threads. God vs non-God threads. Reactionary red-necks vs tree-hugging lefty threads. They all seem to bring out the worst in people. As a benign deity (hey, I spelt it right!), it saddens me to see how you humans squabble and fight over these non-important issues. I suggest you stop slagging each other off and focus on the important things in life, like smelling the flowers, helping old ladies across the road, and handing over 20% of your income to the Church of the Ultimate Elected Deity so they can build me a really groovy mansio .... ah, I mean cathedral, on the shore front overlooking lake Wanaka.

It shall be done.

plod
20-10-2005, 03:17 PM
Um.. not true plod. The *old* iMac G5s had 2 ram slots, with a max of 1 GB per slot.

The new ones have 512 of not removable ram and 1 ram slot that can accept a max of a 2GB stick of ram. so you can't use a new iMac G5 with 2x1GB ram sticks.

-Qyiet
oh ****, you got me on that one, Plod please read before opening mouth

mark c
20-10-2005, 03:30 PM
Bruce is right. Praise Bruce.

On reading all this it seems to me Macs are for people who aren't interested in what's under the bonnet and have got heaps of spondulics.

The rest of us for one or other of the reasons above have PCs.

Luuurve my PC :D

[Edit: Ooops. No that's not right. Plenty of Mac users are also comp enthusiasts. Oh well, back to the fray then.]

Cicero
20-10-2005, 04:03 PM
Must say that apart from the tendency to degenerate into a joust,which is a pity,I have learn-ed quite a bit re Mac V PC,so far I think PC is the way to go,for me.

Thanks chaps.

Metla
20-10-2005, 04:14 PM
The jousting is the best part..


Be a sad day if Safron and Plod give up on the cause.

Safari
20-10-2005, 04:34 PM
The jousting is the best part..


Be a sad day if Safron and Plod give up on the cause.

It would be a dull forum without it.
This is a hot thread, over 1100 views so what does that say.
Second thoughts... Don't Metla.

Elephant
20-10-2005, 06:19 PM
the 2 gig of ram is when yiu max it out to 2.5 gig only having two slots.
you can put in two 1gig sticks at a fraction of the cost if you bothered to read my post

Has anyone noticed that the original posters last post was about 2 1/2 days ago?

I would suggest that Zymiggy has probably gone and bought a Mac by now (or not) as the case maybe. I would think not in so far as the last post was about an AMD64.

We now appear to be talking amongst ourselves as it were.

The main thing I worry about is file formats. If I create a file using Word, Works or Paint Shop or Photoshop then send it via Email can that person open the file?

mark c
20-10-2005, 06:27 PM
I would think not in so far as the last post was about an AMD64.

Forgive my ignorance here but does that mean that Macs have their own processor manufacturer? They don't use either Intel or Athlon? (Yes I know I could look it up myself but hey I enjoy the fray.)

plod
20-10-2005, 06:32 PM
Has anyone noticed that the original posters last post was about 2 1/2 days ago?

I would suggest that Zymiggy has probably gone and bought a Mac by now (or not) as the case maybe. I would think not in so far as the last post was about an AMD64.

We now appear to be talking amongst ourselves as it were.

The main thing I worry about is file formats. If I create a file using Word, Works or Paint Shop or Photoshop then send it via Email can that person open the file?
Yes he chose to go amd, he started a new thread..
As far as file's go, the only file I haven't been able to open is a publisher one,
Any office file will open, photoshop and so on
it will not open a exe file but I guess thats why they are virus and malware free

maccrazy
20-10-2005, 10:47 PM
Forgive my ignorance here but does that mean that Macs have their own processor manufacturer? They don't use either Intel or Athlon? (Yes I know I could look it up myself but hey I enjoy the fray.)
Apple currently uses PowerPC processors in all of it's systems. They have been using PPC processors since the early nineties (prior to that were 68k etc) when the PPC alliance was formed between Apple, Motorola and IBM. They are based on a different architecture to Intel and AMD processor and for this reason there is debate over the relative speeds and MHz ratings etc. Motorola manufactured the G3 and still manufactures the G4 for Apple's laptops. The G5, which is used in desktops, is manufactured by IBM. Apple made a decision earlier this year to begin using Intel chips and will start the transition early next year. Up until now, PPC chips have had a number of performance advantages over x86 architecture, however with new generation chips arriving soon it appears Apple feels that the PPC will loose it's current edge and is therefore going to use Intel chips.

In regard to the original poster's question, the best way to make your decision is to go to your local Apple reseller, Harvey Norman, Noel Leeming etc. and try out a Mac. I have used both platforms and definitely prefer Mac OS X (due to better security, nicer interface, more user friendly software etc), but I know many of the people bashing Macs in this thread haven't actually used one in many years - if at all. The only reason you may not want to buy a Mac is if you are a gamer because it often takes a little bit longer for titles to come out for Mac OS X and games like Half Life etc aren't available at all. If you just play games every so often like I do, there are no real problems. UT2004, Doom 3 etc are available.

My advice would be to seriously consider a Mac because for everyday use there is nothing Macs can't do (except get viruses :p ). If for some reason you really need to use a Windows application, you can always install VirtualPC which emulates Windows. The new iMacs would be a good starting point as they are priced pretty reasonably and should do everything you need to do. :thumbs:

mark c
20-10-2005, 10:53 PM
Thank you maccrazy.net

Cicero
21-10-2005, 07:30 AM
Thank you maccrazy.net
Scraping the barrel there Mark.
You can do better. ;)

qyiet
21-10-2005, 09:29 AM
Has anyone noticed that the original posters last post was about 2 1/2 days ago?
.. <snip> ..
We now appear to be talking amongst ourselves as it were.

The main thing I worry about is file formats. If I create a file using Word, Works or Paint Shop or Photoshop then send it via Email can that person open the file?Yeah the OP went with the idea of a PC and started another thread about specs needed for windows visata, We've been talking among ouselves for a while now, but debate is where people learn things (sometimes :) )

As for file formats I've never seen a problem with altered rendering or anything like that when using the appropriate progam (eg Word for MacOS opens Word for Windows Docs just fine). The only problems I've seen is where someone uses a program that is not available for the other platform, the last example of that I saw was a Design Web Format (DWF) document. Autodesk have yet to release a DWF viewer for OS X so people wanting to open DWFs are left in the cold.

-Qyiet