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Annanz
15-10-2005, 07:32 PM
Can anyone recommend good Firewall???

Reason why I ask is because when I installed Norton Internet Security 2005 it prevented me from seeing program list in Add or Remove programs. If the program list did appear it took about 5 minutes to see. After I removed Norton Internet Security 2005 was able to see Add or Remove programs list straight away.

CliveM
15-10-2005, 07:46 PM
Try Zone Alarm.

Renmoo
15-10-2005, 08:17 PM
Try Zone Alarm.
I will second to that. Check out Sygate Personal Firewall as well. There had been various threads created regarding good recommendation of the firewalls, search for them via the search function. :cool:

Cheers :)

kjaada
16-10-2005, 06:37 AM
While you are at it check out the tosts on getting rid of Nortons It can be a real
foul up if you do not do it right.

Battleneter
16-10-2005, 08:42 PM
Try Zone Alarm.

Zone Alarm is a piece of CRAP. There is no way to set up a manual port forward which means it can't limit search results in P2P programs etc. If your using a P2P program, you probably arn't even aware its limiting your results or download speeds.


Sygate is a good personal firewall, fully configurable and doesn't act annoy you constantly.

oh and I third the "get rid of Nortons" OMG there security suit is a resource pig.

Greg
16-10-2005, 09:01 PM
Kerio

Jen
16-10-2005, 09:20 PM
I would like to recommend Agnitum Outpost - free edition (http://www.agnitum.com/products/outpostfree/download.php). It is easy to setup and configure and will suit most home users needs.

imarubberducky
17-10-2005, 05:19 PM
Windows Firewall with XP SP2

its good enough, security is so overrated/

sambaird
17-10-2005, 05:33 PM
Windows Firewall with XP SP2

its good enough, security is so overrated/

i completly disagre

Renmoo
17-10-2005, 06:00 PM
Windows Firewall with XP SP2

its good enough, security is so overrated/
:yuck: :yuck: :yuck:

Battleneter
17-10-2005, 06:08 PM
i completly disagre


It comes down to what your trying to protect. If its a home PC with nothing really important other than used for browsing a and a few games, then I think the SP firewall is fine WITH good antivirus.

Good AV will prevent the try hard hackers/phreakers from getting access with a mianstream trojan etc (SP2 firewall will stop/ and or warn on many of these also).

A REAL hacker that can bypass the SP2 firewall fairly easily , has better things to do with his time than access your home computer.

If you have a business PC or something important to protect then a 3rd party firewall is the way to go but they are more hassle for the end user.

Jen
17-10-2005, 06:09 PM
XP SP2's firewall is probably "good enough" for the basic home user, and it is certainly better than nothing. The major problem is that it only blocks inbound traffic. If you had a trojan/virus onboard it would have free rein back out into the internet. A third party firewall will alert you that a new program/process is trying to access the internet. If this process/program is unfamiliar it is supposed to alert the user something is not quite right. Does not stop the user still clicking OK blindly to grant it access to stop the annoying wee alert popping up all the time :rolleyes:

tweak'e
17-10-2005, 06:11 PM
Windows Firewall with XP SP2

its good enough, security is so overrated/
every person i know that has every said that has very quickly changed their tune after being infected.

the only people who think security is overrated have their heads buried in the sand :badpc:


A REAL hacker that can bypass the SP2 firewall fairly easily , has better things to do with his time than access your home computer.

bollocks. home pc's are comman targets either for dos attacks or simply a route to hide behind. those with broadband connections are often more sort after but dailup can be used.

mark c
17-10-2005, 06:29 PM
I've been using ZoneAlarm for about 6 years and works fine. Don't know about the P2P issue because I never do that anyway. For your "average home user " it's fine.

Though the "AHU" (average home user) might well be one of the most vulnerable categories of users because not only not being very tech-savvy they might also be the ones who spend time surfing the *ahem* sites on the net.

And that's asking for it.

Battleneter
17-10-2005, 06:34 PM
every person i know that has every said that has very quickly changed their tune after being infected.

the only people who think security is overrated have their heads buried in the sand :badpc:



bollocks. home pc's are comman targets either for dos attacks or simply a route to hide behind. those with broadband connections are often more sort after but dailup can be used.


You must live on another planet with a different version of XP, because I am the opposite, every pesron I know has no problem as long as they are running decent AV.

SP2 blocks Dos attacks what the heck are you talking about !

Battleneter
17-10-2005, 06:44 PM
I've been using ZoneAlarm for about 6 years and works fine. Don't know about the P2P issue because I never do that anyway. For your "average home user " it's fine.

Though the "AHU" (average home user) might well be one of the most vulnerable categories of users because not only not being very tech-savvy they might also be the ones who spend time surfing the *ahem* sites on the net.

And that's asking for it.


As for ZA you can keep it. It semi blocks P2P programs "such as limits search results and speeds" and there is no way to set up a manual port forward, which is what I found a few weeks ago when giving it another chance. Many of the sites say "if your having problems with ZA get a better firewall" lol and I am NOT jokeing.

ZA is Garbage, Sygate is light years better for example.


Also many end user's worry about every alert thinking that they are under
attack constantly, even though most alerts are legit network traffic. That and they have huge amounts of trouble setting up manual port forwards and often don't know how to answer when promted for program access.

So there is a BIG flip side to your argument. In many cases I would prefer to take my chances with SP2 doing the work for them, (no offence to the more technically challenged).

Misty
17-10-2005, 07:52 PM
I have been with ZoneAlarm for a number of years and don't know any other.
Most of the time ZoneAlarm does a fine job but since moving to Windows XP find that every so often I have to disable it to access email and the web. Because I can access email and the web after disabling (when even a reboot will not work) then I have to assume that it is this firewall which is getting overenthusiatic. Not much consistency !

I must get around to trying Kerio or one of the others. :nerd:
cheers
Misty

Battleneter
17-10-2005, 08:45 PM
I have been with ZoneAlarm for a number of years and don't know any other.
Most of the time ZoneAlarm does a fine job but since moving to Windows XP find that every so often I have to disable it to access email and the web. Because I can access email and the web after disabling (when even a reboot will not work) then I have to assume that it is this firewall which is getting overenthusiatic. Not much consistency !

I must get around to trying Kerio or one of the others. :nerd:
cheers
Misty


Um with respect, having to do that means ZA is not fine, you should not have to ever dissable your firewall. Once you disable your firewall for even a short time its much worse than running the SP2 firewall by iteslf, you have kind of proven what I have been saying without realising it.

I find ZA flakey like that too, sometimes it allows access to resources NP at all, others times it interfares. If you must run a 3rd party firewall ditch ZA and download Sygate personal firewall, you won't regret it, as easy to use and fully configurable.

mark c
17-10-2005, 08:58 PM
http://www.download.com/3000-2092-10049526.html

free to try 30 bucks to buy forgive me if I have become accustomed to freebies but ZA works hunky dory and costs nothing

(so you've gotta work at it a bit more, so what have you got a comp for?)

subatomicguy
17-10-2005, 09:30 PM
Norton Internet Security is fine most of the time, but I agree, it is a bit of a resource pig. I had 256MB of Ram (Recommended) and upon startup, took about 5 minutes to load fully. Now that I have upgraded to 1GB Ram, it's just a matter of seconds before the Norton Symbol appears in my taskbar. Norton has an excellent firewall, which notifies of all inbound and outbond traffic that can cause harm to your computer. I'll stick with Norton Internet Security for the time being. 9/10

John H
17-10-2005, 09:41 PM
http://www.download.com/3000-2092-10049526.html

free to try 30 bucks to buy forgive me if I have become accustomed to freebies but ZA works hunky dory and costs nothing

(so you've gotta work at it a bit more, so what have you got a comp for?)

Um, did you not read the line down the bottom of the page saying Sygate is free for personal use?

I have used Sygate on all three computers for about three years after giving Zone Alarm the big heaveho for being utterly pestilential, and vastly prefer Sygate to ZA. I upgraded to Sygate Personal Firewall Pro, but frankly I wouldn't bother - the free version is good enough for most users.

I have checked my computers with www.grc.com, and they come up as Stealth on all ports.

I haven't tried the other two mentioned (Kerio or Agnitum Outpost), but I have heard good reports of the former.

mark c
17-10-2005, 09:51 PM
Damn. No i didn't see that. Thanks.

imarubberducky
17-10-2005, 09:59 PM
Windows Firewall IS good enough, yes i understand it only monitors inbound connections, however if you have good antivirus protection, you should be fine. (I use McAfee).

Obviously im talking about home users, buisness users should stay well away

And security is commonly overrated. Ive had people on this forum and others recommend having 2 firewalls and 3 different anti-spyware programs.

It's more important to be careful when using a computer and not visiting dodgy sites, downloading random files (i.e. movie files on p2p are never going to be 300kbs), and opening random emails, or ParisHiltonNaked!.png from you're MSN buddies. Doing so is a much more smarter way to be safe - and it doesn't hog your resources.

My advice: Use Mozilla Firefox, Windows Firewall, a reasonable anti-virus program (AVG might be good enough - never used it, so maybe someone else can offer their opinion) and ocassionally scan for spyware. You'll be fine.

tweak'e
18-10-2005, 09:54 PM
You must live on another planet with a different version of XP, because I am the opposite, every pesron I know has no problem as long as they are running decent AV.
SP2 blocks Dos attacks what the heck are you talking about !
SP2 firewall dosn't stop dos attacks, what planet are you on! ! ! ROFLMAO the sp2 update brought in connection limiting which slows it down a bit but thats all. it certainly dosn't give the user any indication that they are being used for attacking someone.


Windows Firewall IS good enough
what good is a firewall that dosn't help you control what your pc does on the net?


however if you have good antivirus protection, you should be fine
all of you seem to be assuming that an AV actually works all of the time. news flash! they don't always work! for eg this everning i did a quick cleanup of cuzzies pc. AV caught a few things but the firewall told me there was more. i got rid of 5 others and that was only a very quick look at it.

also AV's do not pickup or stop legit progams from sucking away your rather exspencive broadband or hogging your dailup. for eg the keyboard driver that kept checking for updates every few seconds. its legit, not malicous in any way but it is well know to cost you a fair bit in wasted data useage.

a good firewall is a very handy tool which can save your butt......well more like your bank acc, MS firewall isn't going to stop that trojen from sending out your banking passwords and Av's don't always pick it up either. a good firewall will give the user an opportunity to save themselves. however what the user does with that opportunity is up to them.

SurferJoe46
19-10-2005, 08:44 AM
I had a long discussion in days and weeks past with people over this same issue.."this is better than that...and my dog is bigger than yours" stuff.

Actually, there are very few "rules" as to firewalls and their use...but there are a few axioms to observe. I was writing to a friend who got a bunch of freebees and they totally messed up his puter. XP-Pro hadda be full reinstalled and then all the other stuff he likes had to be brought back too. In telling him what not to do, he was concerned with finding his Windows Firewall turned off all the time...the info other than that might interest the original questioner here:


Well....there are things that go bump in the night inside your computer, but turning off the MS firewall is not one of them.

Actually...here's the real poop:

1) YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE SOFTWARE FIREWALL RUNNING AT A TIME
2) YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE HARDWARE FIREWALL RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME AS #1 ABOVE.

So...in an act of kindness, ZA turned off M$'s firewall...that's a good thing..or not.

If you have more than one software firewall running, they will collide with each other and you won't get online at all..too much confusion!

I heartily recommend the following:

The best thing is to have a router and a firewall. Routers (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?childpagename=US%2FLayout&packedargs=c%3DL_Product_C2%26cid%3D1115416832116&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper) (decent ones, and this is the one I use) have a dynamic IP address generator and a static one that keeps most any drive-by hackers and trojans out of your system.

I personally feel that if a person has a router with a physical firewall, then they have a lot going for them in the first place. Adding another software firewall is just a lot better in the long run.

Any dissention over that here? :stare:

tweak'e
19-10-2005, 11:02 AM
Well....there are things that go bump in the night inside your computer, but turning off the MS firewall is not one of them.[/B]

[B]Actually...here's the real poop:

1) YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE SOFTWARE FIREWALL RUNNING AT A TIME
2) YOU CAN ONLY HAVE ONE HARDWARE FIREWALL RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME AS #1 ABOVE.

If you have more than one software firewall running, they will collide with each other and you won't get online at all..too much confusion!

I heartily recommend the following:
The best thing is to have a router and a firewall.

I personally feel that if a person has a router with a physical firewall, then they have a lot going for them in the first place. Adding another software firewall is just a lot better in the long run.

Any dissention over that here? :stare:

roughly right. with hardware firewalls it dosn't really matter how many you have, its just wasted dollars to have more than one hardware firewall.

also what is a hardware firewall? hardware (ie pc) running software firewall. so why not just leave out the extra hardware and use a software firewall ? (mind you external adsl modems work far better than internal/usb ones so the firewall is a bonus)

correct with multi software firewalls, more than one can cause problems and some will ask for the others to be removed before it can be installed.

SurferJoe46
19-10-2005, 12:23 PM
Hey tweak'e: this leaves me with another question, and as you seem to be up on this stuff, I heard that one can use another puter as a firewall too. It seems to me it said that you can use one between the DSL router and the puter you are going to use online.

What's your take on this?

What software would it need to perform that service?

I know they both need NIC's, but is that about all the hardware they need?

Will the cpu speed on the middle puter need to be equal to or greater than the speed of the other one?

Would a CAT5e cable be sufficient for the data transfer?

KiwiTT_NZ
19-10-2005, 12:52 PM
I have to chime in here.

My recomendation is as follows;

1) Lock down the users who access the web. i.e. do not surf as an administrator. (NOTE: Default setting for a single user install of Windows XP) The administrator has full access to the registry, windows system files, etc. Not an access level to be used lightly.

2) Use a good stand-alone free firewall. (not one with heaps of extra's like pop blockers, antivirus, phishing protection etc.)

3) Use a good anti-virus program without a firewall included (e.g. Avast, AVG, etc.)

4) Use Firefox, with adblock

5) Use Processguard to stop any rogue programs and trojans, who have not yet being detected by the Anti-Virus vendors and the signatures have not being updated.

FoxyMX
19-10-2005, 05:39 PM
I heard that one can use another puter as a firewall too. It seems to me it said that you can use one between the DSL router and the puter you are going to use online.
That is correct, and you can also use it on dialup as well, not just with DSL.

These firewalls usually have Linux as their OS and are dedicated to firewall use only, ie you can't use them to surf the internet, play music, etc. They don't have to be high-speced, in fact it is one use that an old computer can be put to when it has "retired" from general use due to becoming too slow.

Some of the firewalls that I am aware of are Smoothwall, m0n0wall, Firestarter and Debian firewalls. Information on all can be found on Google.

These firewalls are very good at what they do and are especially useful on a network of computers. The only drawback is that they do not monitor and control outgoing traffic which to many, including me and obviously tweak'e, is as important as controlling incoming traffic. This means that if one requires outgoing traffic control then a software firewall will also need to be used on each computer which then becomes a bit of an overkill.

Information on the hardware specifications the computers required for these dedicated firewall machines can be found at each of the firewalls' websites but as I said before, it is a good use for an old retired machine. And yes, they obviously need NICs. I am not sure about what type of cable they require but I believe it would be CAT5.

Graham L
19-10-2005, 05:45 PM
There's no reason why a Linux based firewall can't stop outgoing traffic. It's just a matter of making the appropriate rules. The hardware needed is minimal. I think there's one which can be loaded from one floppy. You should have either two Ethernet cards or one Ethernet card and a modem depending on what your internet access is.

Battleneter
19-10-2005, 07:08 PM
SP2 firewall dosn't stop dos attacks, what planet are you on! ! ! ROFLMAO the sp2 update brought in connection limiting which slows it down a bit but thats all. it certainly dosn't give the user any indication that they are being used for attacking someone.


what good is a firewall that dosn't help you control what your pc does on the net?


all of you seem to be assuming that an AV actually works all of the time. news flash! they don't always work! for eg this everning i did a quick cleanup of cuzzies pc. AV caught a few things but the firewall told me there was more. i got rid of 5 others and that was only a very quick look at it.

also AV's do not pickup or stop legit progams from sucking away your rather exspencive broadband or hogging your dailup. for eg the keyboard driver that kept checking for updates every few seconds. its legit, not malicous in any way but it is well know to cost you a fair bit in wasted data useage.

a good firewall is a very handy tool which can save your butt......well more like your bank acc, MS firewall isn't going to stop that trojen from sending out your banking passwords and Av's don't always pick it up either. a good firewall will give the user an opportunity to save themselves. however what the user does with that opportunity is up to them.


I find your views on the SP2 firewall outdated and inaccurate at best, not to mention paranoid. SP2 firewall and a Good AV and updates is all the "average" home user needs.

MS updates SP2 firewall, will stop Dos attacks with the removal of raw sockets. Your opinion is out dated. I agree new vanurabilities may be found so I will give you that, but recent examples have show MS is fast to shut these threats down with updates.

You CLEARLY don't deal with end users. Many users struggle to deal with 3rd party firewalls not knowing how to answer security access prompts, and as for setting up port forwards....

Is MS SP2 firewall good?, NO its adequate for a certain level of user, and you clearly are having problems comprehending the difference.

Your veiws on a trojan not being recognicsed by your antivirus and therefore may squeeze through is laughable, you are "technically corrrect", however you may also be struck by lighting or a metiorite

Myth
19-10-2005, 07:46 PM
And they say ignorance is bliss :p

FoxyMX
19-10-2005, 09:58 PM
I find your views on the SP2 firewall outdated and inaccurate at best, not to mention paranoid. SP2 firewall and a Good AV and updates is all the "average" home user needs.It depends on who your "average" home user is. A family with a couple of teenagers would definitely need a third-party firewall whereas a retired couple with entirely different browsing habits *may* get away with just the SP2 firewall and a good AV.

Having said that, however, I had a rather tricky trojan to deal with last week on the computer of a retired couple. AVG did detect this particular one but could not do anything other than alert them of its presence. Thanks to Outpost the trojan's attempts to "phone home" was blocked so it did no further damage.

This trojan must have got itself onto the computer via email as I could find no evidence of dodgy sites in the browser's history (and the owners would not have known how to delete the evidence) so that couple certainly learnt of the benefits of a third party firewall.



You CLEARLY don't deal with end users. Many users struggle to deal with 3rd party firewalls not knowing how to answer security access prompts, and as for setting up port forwards....I agree that many users find firewalls difficult to operate to begin with but once permissions are set for the browser, email client and whatever other legitimate programs need access they don't normally need to think about the firewall again until the alarm bells start ringing.

I also admit that some users are utterly hopeless with understanding and using a firewall and for those users I just set up the Windows firewall and hope for the best.


Your veiws on a trojan not being recognicsed by your antivirus and therefore may squeeze through is laughable, you are "technically corrrect", however you may also be struck by lighting or a metioriteI disagree with that. Several trojans have managed to escape detection by my previous anti-virus program (AVG) at different times and the only indication I got of their presence was from my firewall's alerts. A trojan cleaner got rid of them but I hate to think what mischief they would have got up to if I had been using just the Windows firewall.

Metla
19-10-2005, 10:10 PM
I have the XP firewall killed off, all my ports open on my router, and my C drive shared, On a wireless network......Muhahahahaha.

Anyhow, I see multiple comps running malicious code that is ignored by AV's, pulled a keylogger off one today. Nortons (god bless it) was oblivious, whacked on ZA (shock horrer) and what do ya know, dodgy looking pos was trying to access the net.

Final stunning move was to install AVG which detected and removed it as soon as it finished installing.....

Myth
19-10-2005, 10:18 PM
Did you remember to pirouette afterwards :p

Yes rather funny what Nortons misses and AVG finds

tweak'e
19-10-2005, 10:30 PM
SurferJoe46- I heard that one can use another puter as a firewall too. It seems to me it said that you can use one between the DSL router and the puter you are going to use online
as alreay mentioned you can use another pc as a firewall, funny enough running a software firewall on nother pc is terma hardware firewall...go figure :confused: for a home pc its overkill, if a person struggles with a software firewall how the hell are they going to manage setting up, running and maintaining another pc that most likly is running a completely different OS. for some reason some IT pro's insist that hardware firewalls are the ONLY good firewall and is what all home users should have.


There's no reason why a Linux based firewall can't stop outgoing traffic. It's just a matter of making the appropriate rules.
how do you make a rule to stop sehuerfmb.exe that uses IE and the same ports etc and when the offending program is on another pc on the network?


MS updates SP2 firewall, will stop Dos attacks with the removal of raw sockets you don't NEED raw sockets to DOS attack


You CLEARLY don't deal with end users. Many users struggle to deal with 3rd party firewalls not knowing how to answer security access prompts i take the time and trouble to TEACH them how to use it, something a lot of techs are slack on.
your attitude is like these dumb isp's that make youy remove all tools (which can be used to fix the problem) on your pc before they will do anything. they will much rather have people infected then spend a few more minutes actually solving the problem. the only people that seam to be against personal firewalls is help desks and IT pro's.


Is MS SP2 firewall good?, NO its adequate for a certain level of user, and you clearly are having problems comprehending the difference. the lower level the user is (as you put it) the more important it is for them to ave such tools. your not doing them any favours by dumbing down there sicurity.


Your veiws on a trojan not being recognicsed by your antivirus and therefore may squeeze through is laughable, you are "technically corrrect", however you may also be struck by lighting or a metiorite
is it raining metiorites over there or something ??
infected pc's is the most comman problem with pc's. 95% of pc's i fix are infected with something and its comman as mud for AV's to miss it.

simply put MS firewall is not suited to any home user. its a mere minimal bandaid. also don't forget its only XP users that have it, people with other OS's use something better.

edit: just to add.....

this is all nothing new. years ago pro's where saying "no need for AV", then it was "no need for firewall", then "no need for personall firewall, hardware firewall is ok", now its "MS firewall is good enough". its the same old ***. they all eventually learn the cost of poor sicurity.

Battleneter
20-10-2005, 07:43 PM
as alreay mentioned you can use another pc as a firewall, funny enough running a software firewall on nother pc is terma hardware firewall...go figure :confused: for a home pc its overkill, if a person struggles with a software firewall how the hell are they going to manage setting up, running and maintaining another pc that most likly is running a completely different OS. for some reason some IT pro's insist that hardware firewalls are the ONLY good firewall and is what all home users should have.


how do you make a rule to stop sehuerfmb.exe that uses IE and the same ports etc and when the offending program is on another pc on the network?

you don't NEED raw sockets to DOS attack

i take the time and trouble to TEACH them how to use it, something a lot of techs are slack on.
your attitude is like these dumb isp's that make youy remove all tools (which can be used to fix the problem) on your pc before they will do anything. they will much rather have people infected then spend a few more minutes actually solving the problem. the only people that seam to be against personal firewalls is help desks and IT pro's.

the lower level the user is (as you put it) the more important it is for them to ave such tools. your not doing them any favours by dumbing down there sicurity.


is it raining metiorites over there or something ??
infected pc's is the most comman problem with pc's. 95% of pc's i fix are infected with something and its comman as mud for AV's to miss it.

simply put MS firewall is not suited to any home user. its a mere minimal bandaid. also don't forget its only XP users that have it, people with other OS's use something better.

edit: just to add.....

this is all nothing new. years ago pro's where saying "no need for AV", then it was "no need for firewall", then "no need for personall firewall, hardware firewall is ok", now its "MS firewall is good enough". its the same old ***. they all eventually learn the cost of poor sicurity.


lol Read what I said properly, SP2 firewall no longer allows Raw sockets, your Dos attack argument is dead, I suggest you catch up your knowledge of the SP2 firewall before you comment on it.


If you deal with 3 end users a week then I am sure you have the hours to spend teaching end users how to use 3rd party firewall, and then take the 30 calls afterward asking about access prompts and questions about the 300 serious attacks they see in there security logs that is probably just legit traffic, oh and why does my firewall interfare with my apps, ie P2P, OH and how do I set up a port forward.

There is such a thing as wasteing end users time as well, even if you have the best intentions. Sometimes the most simple works best.

tweak'e
20-10-2005, 08:01 PM
lol Read what I said properly, SP2 firewall no longer allows Raw sockets, your Dos attack argument is dead, I suggest you catch up your knowledge of the SP2 firewall before you comment on it.

do your homework/schoolwork <sigh>

while the sp2 does stop raw sockets you DON'T NEED to use raw sockets to mount a dos attack. they have been and will continue to do dos attacks without ever useing raw sockets. raw sockets just makes it easier to mount more advanced types of dos attacks. blocking raw sockets certainly helps but it dosn't mean your pc can't be used in a dos attack. once the pc has been infected and the trojen allowed access to the net (sp2 won't stop it) then it can be used for almost anything.

Battleneter
20-10-2005, 08:15 PM
lol I see your annoyed, good to see you have reverted to abuse.


I generally agree with your raw socket comments you are "technically" correct, although you have seemed to have changed direction a bit lol.


The way I see it there are 3 types of network secuirty people.

#1. The Paranoid type where EVERYONE needs a third party firewall and is constantly under attack from all the evil Terrorist hackers.
#2. The sensible poeple that evaulate individual security needs based on the users needs, balancing inconvience with benefit.
#3. The Don't care a less, don't need any firewall, AV or updates, whats a hacker?

I see you as a #1 and myself as a #2. We will probably never see eye to eye on this subject and frankly it is of no concern to me.

KiwiTT_NZ
20-10-2005, 09:42 PM
Well we #1'ers have been battle hardened and seen the damage these things do to friends and family PCs as well as viruses/worms flooding the workplace.

Telling people their work is corrupted and cannot be recovered is hard. Therefore we will do all we can stop it happening to others.

Battleneter
21-10-2005, 07:51 AM
Well we #1'ers have been battle hardened and seen the damage these things do to friends and family PCs as well as viruses/worms flooding the workplace.

Telling people their work is corrupted and cannot be recovered is hard. Therefore we will do all we can stop it happening to others.



As I very much work in this field, the vast majority of users effected in the way you are describing are either running out of date AV, few upodates and or no firewall at all. Also no spyware detector does not help.

The End users that run good AV, updates and the SP2 firewall are not having problems (also no hassle). I know the people in this thread that say that is not enough for basic end users, are either out of date with there knowledge or have no experience with this level of user or protection.

The hassle vs Benefit always need to be taken into account, otherwise you are a #1 and there is not hope for you.

KiwiTT_NZ
21-10-2005, 08:11 AM
The internet is a very harse place these days, and every available protection should be used. However, I agree with you that any solution we install should be easy to use.

Misty
29-10-2005, 04:40 PM
Got over my inertia and procrastination today and decided that too risky to continue shutting down ZoneAlarm just so that I could get on the net. I have downloaded and now have running Kerio (and have uninstalled ZoneAlarm). So far everything looks fine and can get on the net no problem - what a relief !!! :rolleyes:

I will have a look at Sygate and other suggestions when have a bit more time.
cheers
Misty :)

Battleneter
29-10-2005, 04:47 PM
Got over my inertia and procrastination today and decided that too risky to continue shutting down ZoneAlarm just so that I could get on the net. I have downloaded and now have running Kerio (and have uninstalled ZoneAlarm). So far everything looks fine and can get on the net no problem - what a relief !!! :rolleyes:

I will have a look at Sygate and other suggestions when have a bit more time.
cheers
Misty :)


Good call, ZA is bollocks. Make you wonder why ZA rates so well in certain magazines. If one was paranoid one might think its all the advertising Zonelabs do in those magazines or backhanders or something, much like the Bermuda triangle we will probably never know.

vinref
29-10-2005, 05:24 PM
Got over my inertia and procrastination today and decided that too risky to continue shutting down ZoneAlarm just so that I could get on the net. I have downloaded and now have running Kerio (and have uninstalled ZoneAlarm). So far everything looks fine and can get on the net no problem - what a relief !!! :rolleyes:

I will have a look at Sygate and other suggestions when have a bit more time.
cheers
Misty :)

Distrowatch has a list of linux-based firewalls here (http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major). Just install on an old throwaway like a 486 or an early pentium as a gateway, and administer them from a browser on another machine.

ClarkConnect, Smoothwall and IPCOP I know are fairly easy to install and administer, and stuff like port-forwarding are no problem. Some of them even have web proxies and IP masquerading, which contribute to security. The proxy can be configured quite easily to kill all unwanted web content, and some can even shape and limit traffic, and significantly speeds up your browsing experience through caching.

Most (all?) are free (open source) downloads.

You will still need an AV if you run Windows though.