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lewisc
01-10-2005, 04:43 PM
I own one of those cheap Warehouse Dells (sob), with tacky integrated audio, (SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio.) Using WindowsXP is there anyway that I can increase the amount of RAM allocated to the audio? I know I have a few megs to spare as I upgraded to 768mb a few months ago.

Thanks.

Metla
01-10-2005, 05:00 PM
Intergrated audio merely hands the work over to the cpu, which hits performance, they don't have ram allocated to them as such. And this performance hit is usually only evident when playing games.

If your playing games on a Warehouse Dell then your really barking up the wrong tree...

What exactly is your system doing that you think can be attributed to the intergrated audio?

pctek
01-10-2005, 07:52 PM
I own one of those cheap Warehouse Dells (sob), with tacky integrated audio, (SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio.) Using WindowsXP is there anyway that I can increase the amount of RAM allocated to the audio? I know I have a few megs to spare as I upgraded to 768mb a few months ago.

Thanks.
Thats not a major worry. My sound card developed a fault so now I have reverted to onboard sound (its not a bad MB though). I'll wait for the new range of Creative cards before replacing it. I don't have any issues with games...

If you are worried about games, the lack of graphics in the PC, possibly its CPU and more than likely the low amount of ram will be far more important.

Metla
01-10-2005, 11:21 PM
A crappy motherboard won't help the peformance either.....right across the ...uh....board...

lewisc
02-10-2005, 12:26 PM
I was just hoping I could increase the performance while playing games, I didn't think it was worth buying a sound card, but I'm sick of my computer running so slowly when it comes to sound. And yes I know it's sound because turning down the quality makes it stuff up so much less!

For example, I'm playing BattleField Vietnam, and maybe once every 10 times, if I'm flying in a jet while listening to the ingame radio, shooting, getting shot at and sending a backup request, the game will freeze and only come back when the sound has stopped. Sometimes the whole game crashes. I turn down the audio quality and presto, it runs smoothly again.

And about the dell coment, I have a new graphics card, new ram and a second hard drive. It loads games faster than my friends $2000 pc and crashes less often in about 80% of applications, boots at about 5 times the speed and just handles everything more smoothly. (His problems aren't caused by software either, he formatted and re-installed key apps only, still took friggen ages to boot.)

Plus I've been saving all my spare cash for buying parts for a dual-booting Linux/Vista pc next year

Metla
02-10-2005, 01:25 PM
Suggest you tell hm to install his motherboard drivers.

Anyhow, The audio is loading up the cpu, a sound card is your only option.

http://www.ihatedell.net/

Battleneter
02-10-2005, 02:12 PM
I was just hoping I could increase the performance while playing games, I didn't think it was worth buying a sound card, but I'm sick of my computer running so slowly when it comes to sound. And yes I know it's sound because turning down the quality makes it stuff up so much less!

For example, I'm playing BattleField Vietnam, and maybe once every 10 times, if I'm flying in a jet while listening to the ingame radio, shooting, getting shot at and sending a backup request, the game will freeze and only come back when the sound has stopped. Sometimes the whole game crashes. I turn down the audio quality and presto, it runs smoothly again.

And about the dell coment, I have a new graphics card, new ram and a second hard drive. It loads games faster than my friends $2000 pc and crashes less often in about 80% of applications, boots at about 5 times the speed and just handles everything more smoothly. (His problems aren't caused by software either, he formatted and re-installed key apps only, still took friggen ages to boot.)

Plus I've been saving all my spare cash for buying parts for a dual-booting Linux/Vista pc next year


Ok you are definately barking up the wrong tree.

This is paging as it loads voices and sounds. Install more system ram will resolve this. It isn't really anything to do with your sound card, although it may appear that way.

The exact same problem occurs with Battlefield 2 (the latest version in the BF series).

I am not sure about Battlefield Vietnam to be honest as I hated it, but BF2 requires over 1 gig of ram (more than 1 gig 1.5- 2 etc) to solve this.
Its crappy programming in my opinion but I would nearly stake my life on it this is the problem, very well know. I also recal Battlefield Vietnam ran like dog bollocks when I did try it, and I am fairly sure I only had 512MB at the time.

BTW run a defrag, MAY help a bit.

Metla
02-10-2005, 02:19 PM
Gonna disagree with you there, the worst of the intergrated audio chipsets can load up as much as 30 to 40 percent onto the cpu, espcially when asked to playback multiple audio files at the same time.

Causing instant ja-ja-ja-jam, My money is on an audio card sorting out the issue perfectly.

Hopefully the thread starter will report back if he fixes it, and we will see if I can keepy money

Battleneter
02-10-2005, 02:30 PM
LOL most games don't need a tweak guide but...

Have a good read of this tweak guide for BFV, having a quick read myself, looks like all the same issues as with Battlefield 2, so I believe Battledfield 2 is probably just a evolution of the same crappy game engine. 512MB minimum(key word minimum). As with BF2 I am guess over 1 gig, you may need to read the forums further.

http://www.tweakguides.com/BFV_1.html


"A lack of RAM and sub-optimal virtual memory settings, especially when combined with overclocked memory (and/or aggressive RAM timings), can lead to lots of small in-game loading pauses, longer loading times and memory conflicts leading to freezes, crashes to desktop, and even sudden reboots."

Battleneter
02-10-2005, 02:43 PM
Gonna disagree with you there, the worst of the intergrated audio chipsets can load up as much as 30 to 40 percent onto the cpu, espcially when asked to playback multiple audio files at the same time.

Causing instant ja-ja-ja-jam, My money is on an audio card sorting out the issue perfectly.

Hopefully the thread starter will report back if he fixes it, and we will see if I can keepy money

Yep your wrong sorry, you are 100% right 10 years ago.

I am only using OB sound, If I open up media Player and play a wav file "without the visulations" my CPU usage is below 5% in fact basically doesn't move. Not exactly scientific I know, but it proves a basic point. I think your out of touch with the technology on this one.

BTW if O/B sound took up say 40% 10 years ago of a CPU, do you have any idea how much faster CPU processing time is now? do the math.

Have a quick look at this, to calculate a Pie to the place of... takes some of the fastest home PC's now 33 seconds where some of the older 486's etc 18 days+. My point is CPU's barely notice this load now, not even slightly.

http://pifast.hexus.net/pifast.php

Regardless of this side argument, I know I am right with Battlefield Vietnam, have a quick "google", there seems to be a lot of people with this issue (just like Battlefield 2).

Metla
02-10-2005, 02:52 PM
hmmm.....Like I said, I have money on it...

Anyway, Last article I read on was at Toms hardware about 3 years ago, They were getting 20 or 30 pecent performance loss when the intergrated audio dumped a large task to the cpu (multiple sounds)

I'll see if I can find it on their site, I presume they archieve everything....

Battleneter
02-10-2005, 03:10 PM
I admit 10 years is probably an exaggeration, and you could argue brand of OB sound differ (and I am sure they do). But I will say anything over a 1 gig Celeron under normal gaming use is no longer a concern, same type of argument as software modems.

Ok as for the specific game issue, something I should have pointed out.... there are many sounds going all the time in Battlefield Vietnam, tanks, guns, aircraft, many channels all the time. The main time the lag occurs is on voices "team mates saying tank spotted etc". So logically this makes little sense if it was sound card related.

This is because the game engine is a hog and cannot load everything into memory. This has the effect of "its a sound issue", and when I first got Battlefield 2 this is exactly my first thought (along with many others).

After much reading I upgraded past 1 gig to 2 gig and the problem was solved. As I said google seems to suggest Vietnam has the same issue which is no surprise as its the same software house, and similar engine.

I am betting if he runs another high end game like Doom3 it won't do this sporadic lagging.

Metla
02-10-2005, 03:18 PM
Right, I say we hijack his machine and have a look at it...

Anyhow, My comp ran BF2 fine at medium settings with 512mb, I did upgrade to 1Gb and that has shortened load times but....well... I never had any stuttering issues to worry about in the first place.

If you mean run fine at the highest possible settings, well my video card wouldn't cut the mustard....

My laptop also runs Bf2 damn fine, though at low detail, 1024x768 res, no stuttering.

Of course running higher AA and detail will bring either of my rigs to their knees....

Battleneter
02-10-2005, 03:36 PM
There definitely are people that run BF2 on less than 1 gig and they report it runs fine. Many others report the micro lagging.

It may well be an interpretation of what is smooth or just a bizarre anomaly.

Some also have stated 512MB video cards will stop lagging. (I have my doubts), but maybe it can load more textures into video memory saving system ram for other objects, so maybe that fits.

In any case the more ram solved it for me and all others I read in other threads, and I am most definitely running the same on board sound I can assure you which eliminates it by logic (the processor time it takes is still exactly the same).

Symtom and the actual cause are two differnt things.



Actaully "edit" my software memory monitor shows BF2 loads a lot more than 512MB of data, you MUST be getting some lag as it pages on that 512MB rig? I can't believe your not?

Maybe your idea of smooth differs from others?

pctek
02-10-2005, 03:55 PM
Ah a fight.
Actually Metla is right. You can't say some people have 512 and its fine and others 1 gb etc etc. Its the total of your components.
Anything the onboard hardware - whether its sound or modems or whatever can't cope with will always try to get the CPU to help.

Here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/sound_for_games-04.html#conclusion
It makes no difference whether this is a PII and onboard whatever chipo sound there was then or todays Athlon 64 and AC97 or whatever.

You can get away with onboard sound to a point as in my case - my CPU is grunty, I have tons of ram as well not that it probably matters. It does ok, but of course its not going to cope if I suddenly try to have all the fancy sound effects and settings maxed out in the game settings.
All depends on what type of onboard sound it is too. They aren't all equal.

BF2 is known to want good hardware.

Battleneter
02-10-2005, 03:56 PM
Right, I say we hijack his machine and have a look at it...

Anyhow, My comp ran BF2 fine at medium settings with 512mb, I did upgrade to 1Gb and that has shortened load times but....well... I never had any stuttering issues to worry about in the first place.

If you mean run fine at the highest possible settings, well my video card wouldn't cut the mustard....

My laptop also runs Bf2 damn fine, though at low detail, 1024x768 res, no stuttering.

Of course running higher AA and detail will bring either of my rigs to their knees....


Lol sorry to spam

But YOU ARE TRIPPING HOLMES

BF2 runs LIKE CRAP on 512MB of ram, you are either mistaken or expectation of performance is very low.

"However it is quite clear that BF2 requires a lot of memory to operate. Basically many of the pauses/freezes are related to loading information from the hard drive, and for those of you with only 512MB of RAM this will happen very often, particularly at the start of a match and whenever new areas/items are encountered."

http://www.tweakguides.com/BF2_3.html


If you want to argue this, start posting threads showing me all the people running BF2 on 512 and are happy, ill do the opposite!

Battleneter
02-10-2005, 04:23 PM
Ah a fight.
Actually Metla is right. You can't say some people have 512 and its fine and others 1 gb etc etc. Its the total of your components.
Anything the onboard hardware - whether its sound or modems or whatever can't cope with will always try to get the CPU to help.

Here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/sound_for_games-04.html#conclusion
It makes no difference whether this is a PII and onboard whatever chipo sound there was then or today's Athlon 64 and AC97 or whatever.

You can get away with onboard sound to a point as in my case - my CPU is grunty, I have tons of ram as well not that it probably matters. It does ok, but of course its not going to cope if I suddenly try to have all the fancy sound effects and settings maxed out in the game settings.
All depends on what type of onboard sound it is too. They aren't all equal.

BF2 is known to want good hardware.

Interesting article, and I Now concede the impact on SOME of the OB sound chipsets are greater than I thought BUT a lot less than Metla thought.

Its a good artcial with up to 15% drop (keep in mind the Audigy often show 8%) so its the difference that is relevant **7%** ish. The Nvidia solution is OB and does very well. 7-10% impact is reasonably relevant, but its not exactly a criplling %40 which has been bantered about either.

BUT!!!!!!!!! READ CAREFULY.

This artical discusses frame rate performance across the board. This is NOT the issue of distinct lagging every 10 seconds etc when a voice module is loaded.

So I stick 100% to my guns, the Battlefield Vietnam issue is memory related, a external sound card will not solve the problem.

Suggesting a sound card will cost him money and he will still have the problem.

Metla
02-10-2005, 06:19 PM
Lol sorry to spam

But YOU ARE TRIPPING HOLMES

BF2 runs LIKE CRAP on 512MB of ram, you are either mistaken or expectation of performance is very low.

"However it is quite clear that BF2 requires a lot of memory to operate. Basically many of the pauses/freezes are related to loading information from the hard drive, and for those of you with only 512MB of RAM this will happen very often, particularly at the start of a match and whenever new areas/items are encountered."

http://www.tweakguides.com/BF2_3.html


If you want to argue this, start posting threads showing me all the people running BF2 on 512 and are happy, ill do the opposite!


Argue?

Why would I argue a fact?, no skin off my nose if your experience is different. Start posting threads as evidence indeed....LMFAO at you.Pure comedy.

Though your welcome to call in and see it any time you like.

Metla
02-10-2005, 06:23 PM
Interesting article, and I Now concede the impact on SOME of the OB sound chipsets are greater than I thought BUT a lot less than Metla thought.

Its a good artcial with up to 15% drop (keep in mind the Audigy often show 8%) so its the difference that is relevant **7%** ish. The Nvidia solution is OB and does very well. 7-10% impact is reasonably relevant, but its not exactly a criplling %40 which has been bantered about either.

BUT!!!!!!!!! READ CAREFULY.

This artical discusses frame rate performance across the board. This is NOT the issue of distinct lagging every 10 seconds etc when a voice module is loaded.

So I stick 100% to my guns, the Battlefield Vietnam issue is memory related, a external sound card will not solve the problem.

Suggesting a sound card will cost him money and he will still have the problem.



My figures were off?

Ah well, I did read the article just the once and it was a couple of years ago.

Try a soundcard yourself, it may help your own lagging issues, I personally wouldn't be without mine.

pctek
02-10-2005, 06:46 PM
Interesting article, and I Now concede the impact on SOME of the OB sound chipsets are greater than I thought BUT a lot less than Metla thought.


This artical discusses frame rate performance across the board. This is NOT the issue of distinct lagging every 10 seconds etc when a voice module is loaded.

So I stick 100% to my guns, the Battlefield Vietnam issue is memory related, a external sound card will not solve the problem.

Suggesting a sound card will cost him money and he will still have the problem.
Really for BF2 you should have 1Gb, a 3200+ or higher CPU, not a Sempron and at least a 6600GT. And a sound card would be good too.
Probably a bit much if the current PC doesn't meet those specs but with the new lot of games coming out soon, such as FEAR, its heading that way as far as gaming hardware goes.

And stutter in the sound - he might want to turn off EAX for one thing. That would help...

lewisc
02-10-2005, 07:07 PM
It's not just BattleField Vietnam, I just used it as an example. Is it guaranteed that more RAM will solve it? Because I have a friend with only 512megs and he runs games fine, I figured it was becuase he has a sound card and a better processor that he runs so much smoother. As much of this thread as I've followed has given me the following choices (correct me if I'm wrong):

1) More RAM
2) Get a Sound Card
3) New computer becuase Warehouse Dell's are so bad. And yes I agree, they are shocking!

And these are the problems with these options:

1 RAM) Only 2 RAM slots, (not much of a problem) but could be a waste of that 256 stick.

2 Sound Card) Might not solve the problem, cost's a fair bit, might not be worth it on my current pc.

3 New Computer) Really this would solve all problems as long as I bought good parts (and I would now, I've come a long way since I made the decision to purchase that computer. The problem with this is that I have almost no money, and it would be about a year before I could afford a new pc from scratch. Also, I would rather wait til I finished school and got to Uni before I got a new pc, as I would only really need one then. At the moment it's only for recreation.

So what's your advice? To me it looks like more RAM is the best option.

Metla
02-10-2005, 08:00 PM
My advice is to pick up a Soundblaster Live off of trademe, they should go for $20 or $30 bucks.

Though as we can see above there is some disagreement.

The proof is in the pudding.

lewisc
02-10-2005, 09:55 PM
Thanks for the advice, on no income at the moment it could be a while. I spent my last $40 on lift+ and coffee...