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JJJJJ
13-09-2005, 02:37 PM
This afternoon I have a 25 degree temp in the air surrounding my computer.
Playing with MS Flight Sim. I am getting pauses "for reloading" every two or three minutes. At other times scenery is losing it's colour and detail.

After closing down game and finding my probe details I have a CPU temp of 54. a motherboard of 48, and a temp of 44 in Hard disk. I realise this is getting a bit warm but it should be OK. Well within limits.

After leaving comp idleing for ten minutes while I got myself a drink the temps have settled at 44, 38 and 31.

I have another case fan that is not monitored.

I realize these temps are probably not completely accurate, but they are an indication.

Does my game problem sound like an overheating problem?

Metla
13-09-2005, 02:40 PM
No.

Sounds like a disk acessing issue.

Kill off background apps, and do a defragg.

JJJJJ
13-09-2005, 02:57 PM
The program has a partition all to itself and "defrag" won't even try and defrag the drive.

Battleneter
13-09-2005, 05:09 PM
No.

Sounds like a disk acessing issue.

Kill off background apps, and do a defragg.


I agree, sounds like disk pages or fragmentation. MS flight sim runs crappy on less than a gig of ram. On a gig it runs well on my PC.

JJJJJ
13-09-2005, 05:16 PM
I agree, sounds like disk pages or fragmentation. MS flight sim runs crappy on less than a gig of ram. On a gig it runs well on my PC.
It's got a gig of ram. And it only started playing up in the heat this afternoon

Graham L
13-09-2005, 05:52 PM
25 degrees? "Heat"? About time you got an air conditioner, anyway, and made your contribution to using up the extra cheap electricity made available by the miracle of the market.

tweak'e
13-09-2005, 06:45 PM
After leaving comp idleing for ten minutes while I got myself a drink the temps have settled at 44, 38 and 31.


pull the side of the case off and watch what happens to the case and haddrive temps. if they drop you have a casee cooling problem.

memphis
13-09-2005, 11:07 PM
1.How many case fans do you have and which way are they blowing?

2.Are the case fans blocked by anything?

3.Is your case cabling tidy and out of the way of the air flow?

4.Is your case dusty inside?

5.What graphic card have you got?

6.What cpu do you have?

(put a better cpu hsf on, 92mm/120mm cpu heat sink fan (Zalman,Thermalright etc..),put a better vga cooler on (Zalman,etc..),have 120mm case fans if your case will fit them). :thumbs:

:2cents:

Trev
14-09-2005, 09:02 AM
Take the side off the case and get an ordinary household fan and blow into it and see what that dose.

Trevor :)

Metla
14-09-2005, 09:07 AM
Are you all mad?

Not a single thing Jack mentioned points to heat being an issue, its a wild stab in the dark.

tweak'e
14-09-2005, 09:24 AM
Are you all mad?

Not a single thing Jack mentioned points to heat being an issue, its a wild stab in the dark.

yep...stark raving bonking mad !

if those temps are correct a few pauses are going to turn into one permanent pause.

as far as actually fixing the pauses it depends on if its actually pauses because of loading from the drive ie is the hd light flashing during the pause?. i have seen overheating pc's display the same symptoms, mostly overheating PSU's causing voltage drop while under load.
if the pauseing is only in one game then its proberly just a game issue.

Battleneter
14-09-2005, 09:32 AM
It's got a gig of ram. And it only started playing up in the heat this afternoon


Have you defraged your drive? this can make a huge difference. The Teperatures you have mentioned are fine.

Battleneter
14-09-2005, 09:39 AM
Are you all mad?

Not a single thing Jack mentioned points to heat being an issue, its a wild stab in the dark.


I agree, its as bad as poeple saying "I think its a Motherboard problem".

That one drives me nuts also.

PEOPLE THE HUMAN COMFORT LEVEL IS 21 Celsius. 25C is not hot for a PC and that's assuming the case censor can be trusted for an accurate reading, and usually licking your finger and poking it inside you case and guessing will be just as close.

NOT ONE PERSON ASKED WHAT TYPE OF CPU HE HAS, yep it matters when talking about temperatures.

Maybe its the flux capacitor or the deflector array causing the problem!!


Scotty try rebooting the warp core!

tweak'e
14-09-2005, 09:44 AM
most be early morning or something.....JJJJJ said ROOM temp was 25, case temp at idle was 38 and the fact that the case temp went up to 48 under load means the case has no airflow.

40+ degrees case temp is really bad for the pc. life span is reduce to half (roughly put)when you go over 40 degrees.

Battleneter
14-09-2005, 10:00 AM
most be early morning or something.....JJJJJ said ROOM temp was 25, case temp at idle was 38 and the fact that the case temp went up to 48 under load means the case has no airflow.

40+ degrees case temp is really bad for the pc. life span is reduce to half (roughly put)when you go over 40 degrees.


Just went back to read the original post he said

25C Air around PC (not sure how he measured that, its a mute issue)

CPU 54C (fine for a Athlon or 3gig ish Intel CPU under load)

MB 48C ( hard to say, this may be a sencore located under or near the CPU to give you an external CPU temperature, this would be the most likely and as such is fine)

HDD 44C (Depends on the Make, but for a 7200 or 10000 RPM drive this is fine, they do get hot)


He can take his case side off if he likes lol, but i would suggest a defrag first, or at least analyse to see if it needs it :rolleyes: .

How about a background process stealing processor time? lol I would be looking at this issue also before issueing heat warnings.



Your mistake is with "Case temp" you are assuming the MB reading is in fact a case temp wich is probably wrong, if his case temp was 40+ I would dare say his CPU temp would go way over 54C lol, way way over, its all relative.

memphis
14-09-2005, 12:37 PM
Quote:by Battlenetter

NOT ONE PERSON ASKED WHAT TYPE OF CPU HE HAS, yep it matters when talking about temperatures.

Quote:by Memphis

6.What cpu do you have?

As you can see I did. :D

Metla
14-09-2005, 01:01 PM
Doesn't everybody here know that Jack as an AMD 64 3200,an Asus Nforce3 and a 9800pro (that he isn't very happy with, but then I did say at the time to get a 6600GT)

tweak'e
14-09-2005, 06:48 PM
Your mistake is with "Case temp" you are assuming the MB reading is in fact a case temp wich is probably wrong, if his case temp was 40+ I would dare say his CPU temp would go way over 54C lol, way way over, its all relative.

mobo temp is considered case temp. as you mention location etc has a big influence on it and as jjjj mentioned they are not very accurate sensors. thats why doing such a simple quick test like removing side panel of the case will show IF there is a case cooling problem or just incorrect sensors.

while this may not have anything what so ever to do with his problem its worth cheaking exspecially as it takes all of 30 secs to test it.

memphis
15-09-2005, 12:29 AM
Quote:by Metla

Doesn't everybody here know that Jack as an AMD 64 3200,an Asus Nforce3 and a 9800pro (that he isn't very happy with, but then I did say at the time to get a 6600GT)

No I did not know as he did not post his system specs. :groan:

A poster wanting help should allways post the system specs. of their computer as it helps people to help them.

Should be mandatary I get sick of asking all the time when someone wants help and they tell you nothing about their computer.

They should know and if they dont then use windows to tell you and/or the free programmes that tell you.
Such as:
XP Home/Pro:Start, Control Panel,System

Everest Home Edition

PCMark 04

3DMark 05

SiSoftwear Sandra 2004

Belarc Advisor

And many other free products as well no doubt.

Could the Administrators make a sticky of those programmes and then when people ask for help and they dont post system specs. or dont know system specs.,we can tell them to go to the sticky.

You dont have to endose them or whatever just list them and say these may help you so you can help people to help you and they can download whatever one they want to use.

They are all free as well.

It would help all concerned and lead to faster help for people.

Thank You.

:thumbs:

:2cents:

JJJJJ
15-09-2005, 04:48 AM
Sorry Memphis, didn't think system specs would have helped.
Been doing a bit of experimenting.Things are back to normal again. I think my problem occured because of high ambient temp. and a prolonged vigourish flight. Couldn't reproduce the fault again.
Inside of case still spotless and cables all neatly stowed.Fans all working.
My video card (Radeon 9800 pro) seems to be running a bit warmer ,but no probes on it. Can still hold a finger on it though.
I have had a new monitor (Viewsonic 19" Field Value
Monitor ViewSonic VX924 [NoDB] (PS3052201238)) Running in DVI.
Do these use more power (and more heat) ?
Thanks to everyone for suggestions. :confused:

Jen
15-09-2005, 06:45 AM
A poster wanting help should allways post the system specs. of their computer as it helps people to help them.

Should be mandatary I get sick of asking all the time when someone wants help and they tell you nothing about their computer.

They should know and if they dont then use windows to tell you and/or the free programmes that tell you.

Could the Administrators make a sticky of those programmes and then when people ask for help and they dont post system specs. or dont know system specs.,we can tell them to go to the sticky.
There is a very comprehensive PressF1 FAQ on this, which includes how to find out your system specificiations:

FAQ- How To Get Effective Help on PF1. Help Us to Help You. (Not the Pocket Version.) (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/faq.php?faq=faq_pressf1_root#faq_new_faq_item_101) - section 10 covers system information. :)

Battleneter
15-09-2005, 09:02 AM
mobo temp is considered case temp. as you mention location etc has a big influence on it and as jjjj mentioned they are not very accurate sensors. thats why doing such a simple quick test like removing side panel of the case will show IF there is a case cooling problem or just incorrect sensors.

while this may not have anything what so ever to do with his problem its worth cheaking exspecially as it takes all of 30 secs to test it.


I dissagree completely, Many manufactures put a 2nd sencor near the CPU to optain a external CPU reading. Many cheaper boards do not have a case sensor at all.

The lack of information about the system means guessing that temperatures are to high are exactly that "guessing". You may be right but you may be wrong.

Its kinda like giveing a patient Chemotherapy because the Patient THINKS he has cancer.

Metla
15-09-2005, 09:08 AM
That aside, What Tweak'e said is true, it only takes 3.2 seconds to point a fan at it, even if all it does is discount theroy #1.

And that aside as well, From what Jack has said about not being able to replicate the isssue,and that it happened after an extended period of use I would still suggest it was simply struggling for resources and accessing the harddrive, Hell, In good old windows fashion it was probally resizing the page file while he was ingame.....

Battleneter
15-09-2005, 09:10 AM
Doesn't everybody here know that Jack as an AMD 64 3200,an Asus Nforce3 and a 9800pro (that he isn't very happy with, but then I did say at the time to get a 6600GT)


A 6600GT is a bit faster than a 9800 pro, but it centainly isn't worth the $300 upgrade cost for an extra 30% ish performance boost. I have a 9800XT and have looked very closely at the 6600GT. Most 6600GT's are only 128MB which means they "may" struggle in games coming up like F.E.A.R etc.

The better idea is to save some more dollaroes and buy a real upgrade ie 6800GT, or wait for the next gen cards to drop a little more which is what I am doing.

tweak'e
15-09-2005, 09:12 AM
I dissagree completely, Many manufactures put a 2nd sencor near the CPU to optain a external CPU reading. Many cheaper boards do not have a case sensor at all. 90% of mobo's have a mobo sensor at the far end of the board. granted cheap ones often have no sensors at all. i've yet to see one with an external sensor close to the cpu (not including the "under the cpu" cpu sensor)


The lack of information about the system means guessing that temperatures are to high are exactly that "guessing". You may be right but you may be wrong. exactly they why we test things first.


Its kinda like giveing a patient Chemotherapy because the Patient THINKS he has cancer.
no, its about TESTING to see IF the patient has cancer.

Battleneter
15-09-2005, 09:22 AM
That aside, What Tweak'e said is true, it only takes 3.2 seconds to point a fan at it, even if all it does is discount theroy #1.

And that aside as well, From what Jack has said about not being able to replicate the isssue,and that it happened after an extended period of use I would still suggest it was simply struggling for resources and accessing the harddrive, Hell, In good old windows fashion it was probally resizing the page file while he was ingame.....


yes and only 1 min to swap the ram

and 1 min to swap the CPU

and 1 min to swap the video card

and only 10 minutes to swap the motherboard.

See my point? guess guess guess, we could do this all day.


Logical process of elimination is the way to solve the problem, starting with software.

Another obvious suggestion before looking at hardware would have been to try another high end game to see if problems occurs there to. If not then its highly unlikly to be hardware (including heat).

I see the same suggestions over and over in these threads, "Heat,PSU,and motherboard"

As I read theses suggestions they get :groan: and :rolleyes:

drcspy
15-09-2005, 09:43 AM
and only 10 minutes to swap the motherboard. .......hell that's quick......

Battleneter
15-09-2005, 10:01 AM
90% of mobo's have a mobo sensor at the far end of the board. granted cheap ones often have no sensors at all. i've yet to see one with an external sensor close to the cpu (not including the "under the cpu" cpu sensor)
exactly they why we test things first.

no, its about TESTING to see IF the patient has cancer.


Point 1

Never seen a CPU Sensor? really??. They are very common on Athlon socket A class boards as Athlons don't really have an internal core Sensor, wich was a major thing missing from the Architecture. Also noted them on other classes of boards but less common.

Have a close look and see if you can see one in this picture.

http://www.overclockers.co.nz/ocnz/reviewimage.php?id=03boardnforce20soltek0075frn2rl 0105&file=2phase.jpg


Point 2
You don't seem to know much about the PC market, do you think Dell,HP and IBM use $200 motherboards in most of there Desktop PC's or $70 boards?.

Who do you think is the largest supplier of motherboards in the world is , Asus, Gigabyte?, MSI

Ill give you a hint, you will probably never guess, its none of those, although I have seen clueless article’s describing how Asus is the largest (cough wrong).

Battleneter
15-09-2005, 10:04 AM
and only 10 minutes to swap the motherboard. .......hell that's quick......


Actually depending on the case etc, I could do it in 5 minutes, maybe less especially if its an all onboard job..... wow, I can also touch my nose and rub my tummy at the same time!.

Metla
15-09-2005, 10:12 AM
Who do you think is the largest supplier of motherboards in the world is , Asus, Gigabyte?, MSI

Ill give you a hint, you will probably never guess, its none of those, although I have seen clueless article’s describing how Asus is the largest (cough wrong).

Its ECS and PCChips, though PCChips own ECS so its both....sort of ..

Anyhow, there are 2 different markets, and Asus ship more boards to the market but ECS/PCChips sell more to OEM's, Giving Asus THE #1 spot for selling motherboards.

Simple?

Battleneter
15-09-2005, 10:22 AM
oth....sort of ..

Its ECS and PCChips, though PCChips own ECS so its both....sort of ..

Anyhow, there are 2 different markets, and Asus ship more boards to the market but ECS/PCChips sell more to OEM's, Giving Asus THE #1 spot for selling motherboards.

Simple?


Dam you got it, you wern't suppose to lol Yep "Hengseng Technology"

I can't remember market share figure's but its something like 70% to the OEM's (so called brand names).

So my point is after all that, chances are the average end user has a cheap nasty fully cut down ( but ok) motherboard rather than a full featured board in there PC. I was simply shooting down the 90% of motherboards have case sencors statement, which I know is not true as I have probably repaired 5000+ machines of all brands.

JJJJJ
15-09-2005, 12:56 PM
yes and only 1 min to swap the ram

and 1 min to swap the CPU

and 1 min to swap the video card

and only 10 minutes to swap the motherboard.

See my point? guess guess guess, we could do this all day.
:

10 minutes to swap the motherboard. :D :D
The comp I have now took me 8 hours to remove old board and fit new one. Two hours just to get the front UCB connected. And another hour to work out where the wires for front switches etc. went.

Can I call on you next time? I'rd even give you a cup of coffee, but you'rd be finished and gone before it brewed

Battleneter
15-09-2005, 01:04 PM
10 minutes to swap the motherboard. :D :D
The comp I have now took me 8 hours to remove old board and fit new one. Two hours just to get the front UCB connected. And another hour to work out where the wires for front switches etc. went.

Can I call on you next time? I'rd even give you a cup of coffee, but you'rd be finished and gone before it brewed


lol 8 hrs, what have you only 1 arm? hehe I think your pulling my leg.

Keep in mind i do this for a job. When I was a PC Bulider I could assemble a PC in about 30mins, the record at work is 9 minutes to post (everything laid out ready to go).

I replaced My radiator in my car a few months back and according to my car forum its a 45 minute job, 4 hrs later and a lot of swearing I was finished and as for working on my house..

tweak'e
15-09-2005, 02:40 PM
Point 1

Never seen a CPU Sensor? really??.
wake up and READ or are you just blind ???
i never said anything about not seeing a cpu sensors. the discussion was on case/mobo sensors not cpu sensors.

i said i've yet to see one with an external sensor close to the cpu (not including the "under the cpu" cpu sensor) which exactly what you have just said.
just to make it clear for those who are blind and deaf........apart from the external cpu sensor the early boards (socket A -socket7) i have never seen a mobo with a mobo/case sensor that is close to the cpu, there are normally at the end of the mobo. the early mobo's have a cpu sensor under the cpu not a case/mobo sensor.

Graham L
15-09-2005, 02:46 PM
It's interesting that "heat" or "temperature" threads cause so much "overheating".

Perhaps some of the people need proper cooling. The CPUs aren't the problem. :cool:

tweak'e
15-09-2005, 03:05 PM
sorry graham...its been a "fun" day so far........ ;)

FoxyMX
15-09-2005, 05:33 PM
Perhaps some of the people need proper cooling.
Mmmm... particularly the ones with Foot in Mouth disease. ;) :D