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user
20-04-2005, 12:55 PM
Just wondering if anyone else is noticing an increase in the spam creeping through the spam filter with Xtra over the last week or so. I emailed them about it but they missed the point and waffled on about settings wrt the filter function.
Also, I get spam through which has been ID'ed by the Yahoo spam filter with the title containing [spam] in it so you can identify it easily and deal with it. Xtra does not seem to be able to catch some of these. If another filter can catch them, why can't Xtra's do so also. I think it is becoming increasingly useless or not being updated often enough.
Anyone else's thoughts?

Steve

ninja
20-04-2005, 01:05 PM
Spam filters are difficult to maintain and update. Spammers are constantly looking for ways to get around them so filters are eternally trying to catch up.

My thoughts are that it's free, quit yer whining. They don't have to provide a spam filter, spam is not their fault.

Efficiency of filtering will change from day to day, build a bridge and get over it.

user
20-04-2005, 02:24 PM
Spam filters are difficult to maintain and update. Spammers are constantly looking for ways to get around them so filters are eternally trying to catch up.

My thoughts are that it's free, quit yer whining. They don't have to provide a spam filter, spam is not their fault.

Efficiency of filtering will change from day to day, build a bridge and get over it.

You seem to miss my point with your personal attack. Of course I know that spammers are looking for new ways to overcome filters. One of my points was that the Yahoo filter seemed to have little problem IDing the spam which Xtra cannot. No, they don't have to provide a spam filter but when they advertise it as part of the attraction to sign up for them, then it should do the job.
If you can't add anything to the topic, then don't bother to reply.

bonzo29
20-04-2005, 03:42 PM
No nonsense response.

I havn't noticed an increase in missed spam with xtra

Cicero
20-04-2005, 04:48 PM
You seem to miss my point with your personal attack. Of course I know that spammers are looking for new ways to overcome filters. One of my points was that the Yahoo filter seemed to have little problem IDing the spam which Xtra cannot. No, they don't have to provide a spam filter but when they advertise it as part of the attraction to sign up for them, then it should do the job.
If you can't add anything to the topic, then don't bother to reply.
Well said User :thumbs:

pctek
20-04-2005, 05:28 PM
Xtra has always seemed to have a poor spam filter.

Speedy Gonzales
20-04-2005, 05:34 PM
Just get something like spampal and ban/blacklist the whole domain.

Like I do, bet u wont get so many spams then :cool:

Sounds like Ihugs. Even tho I've turned theirs off I still get email saying its not spam (when the few spam do get thru, which get blacklisted after I see it), lol its useless.

Myth
20-04-2005, 06:18 PM
Also, I get spam through which has been ID'ed by the Yahoo spam filter with the title containing [spam] in it so you can identify it easily and deal with it. No doubt you would have heard of a little word called 'spoofing'?

Just because the address or whatever is identified by Yahoo, that doesn't mean it is the actual address.
Sometime in the future; Yahoo may identify your email address as the source of the spam; now if Xtra were to act on that, you would undoubtedly lose your account.

Thats possibly why Xtra is not acting on the information. False addresses

user
20-04-2005, 06:48 PM
No doubt you would have heard of a little word called 'spoofing'?

Just because the address or whatever is identified by Yahoo, that doesn't mean it is the actual address.
Sometime in the future; Yahoo may identify your email address as the source of the spam; now if Xtra were to act on that, you would undoubtedly lose your account.

Thats possibly why Xtra is not acting on the information. False addresses

I don't think you understand what I wrote. I am the creator of some egroups which are now run by Yahoo. Because the egroup creator recieves emails from spammers, they must first pass through the Yahoo spam filter. Yahoo identifies them as spam and inserts [spam] into the header of the email so they can be dealt with by the recipient. I am not the source of the spam ito sender address, there is no mention of spoofing my address. Your points are irrelevant to the query I originally posed. The Xtra filter still acts on the original spam email with the only difference that of the [spam] added to the header, the content and sender address the same. Yahoo would appear to have a better filter than Xtra currently. When Xtra first brought in the filter, spams dropped to almost a handful each week. Now they are on the increase again the past few weeks. The content and headers are enough for me to delete them without further investigation. If they are that obvious, then the filter should capture most of them beforehand. Perhaps it is simply a bad few weeks for spam? HTH.

ninja
20-04-2005, 08:37 PM
You seem to miss my point with your personal attack. Of course I know that spammers are looking for new ways to overcome filters. One of my points was that the Yahoo filter seemed to have little problem IDing the spam which Xtra cannot. No, they don't have to provide a spam filter but when they advertise it as part of the attraction to sign up for them, then it should do the job.
If you can't add anything to the topic, then don't bother to reply.What I added was a valid contribution no one else had discussed. It also wasn't personal, if you elected to take it that way thats your problem.

Yahoo = Huge

Xtra = Tiny in the grand scheme of things

Huge = more resources to spend on the phenomenal task of managing spam

Tiny = less resources to spend on the phenomenal task of managing spam

Spam filtering is a huge job, it requires huge amounts of hardware and a lot of input. It's not a service that you profit off, it costs a crapload to provide so investing more time in tweaking it every 5 minutes because someone found a new way around it is hardly likely to be high priority.

Why don't you compare the amount getting through to the amount getting caught. It's probably just a surge in the amount of spam arriving, hence more gets through.

I do this for a living, it ain't a science. And just imagine how much you'd whine when the filter was too restrictive and started catching valid e-mails. ISP's are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Tom McB
20-04-2005, 09:25 PM
I have an account with Xtra with aliases setup for other members of the family. 3 weeks ago, I noticed a few spam getting thru on my wife's email address to the same account. We promptly deleted these and a couple more arrived the next day. These were mostly from hotmail addresses the legitimacy of which we are not so sure.

Anyway, I sent a polite report to xtra (spamreport@xtra.co.nz) and we have not had a repeat incident so far.

I have no complaints about xtra's spam service and do recognise that by the nature of these things, some nasties would slip the net (sorry about the pun) from time to time. Meanwhile, the household was reminded about this nuisance and the vigilance in not clicking on links too hastily.

andrew93
20-04-2005, 09:34 PM
I certainly don't disagree with what ninja has posted (damned if they do and damned if they don't) but FWIW I have e-mails routed via The Packing Shed in Pukekohe to Xtra - and like the Yahoo e-mails for 'user', a number are tagged as "spam" by The Packing Shed that are not tagged as spam by Xtra. I would have thought The Packing Shed was a lot smaller than Xtra so maybe size is not the issue - rather it could be the spam detection software that is used?

In answer to the original question, yes I have seen an increase in the past 2 weeks - not a biggie though, I report them to Xtra and promptly delete.

user
20-04-2005, 09:55 PM
Thanks for the useful responses to a simple question.

Ninja - "quit yer whining". and "build a bridge and get over it" do not constitute part of any helpful response and are rather aggressive. My rule of thumb is that the language is acceptable if you would be happy to talk to your boss/superior in this way if they asked the same question. I doubt if your tone would be acceptable... Perhaps you don't realise that you are doing this?

PaulD
20-04-2005, 11:12 PM
Yahoo users get to nominate mail as SPAM, thus providing real time tuning for Yahoo's filters. If hundreds of different people point to an originating address as a spammer, that address is probably worth blocking.

Metla
20-04-2005, 11:25 PM
everything I get from Yahoo is spam.....

Agent_24
21-04-2005, 01:36 AM
yep, I have noticed 3-6 spam emails a day (normally 0-1) recently, however it has happened before, and been cured before. just keep reporting the spam to xtra.

I think xtra does a good job of getting rid of spam, as I get only a few spam a day with the blocker on, as opposed to about 95+ a day with it off.. :mad:

ninja
21-04-2005, 01:50 AM
My rule of thumb is that the language is acceptable if you would be happy to talk to your boss/superior in this way if they asked the same question.Well you ain't my boss, and you sure as hell ain't my superior.

Metla
21-04-2005, 01:57 AM
heh heh heh.

I wish i could let fly with some of the language I have directed at bosses over the years,but I would imagine I would get a permanent ban, and all mention of me removed from the history books.....

tedheath
21-04-2005, 09:03 AM
Firstly I have a problem with xtra spam filter in that deletes my trademe searches. A fair few Nigerian type letters are getting through.
I find Hotmail spam filter the better than yahoo mail. Hotmail would be lucky to get 4 spams a week through.
Secondly ban Ninja from this forum for ever, or send him some sedatives.

tedheath

ninja
21-04-2005, 09:35 AM
Firstly I have a problem with xtra spam filter in that deletes my trademe searches.There ya go. Damned if they do.

A fair few Nigerian type letters are getting through.Damned if they don't.

I find Hotmail spam filter the better than yahoo mail. Hotmail would be lucky to get 4 spams a week through.This doesn't mean anything "4 spams a week through" if you only get 6 spam messages indicates a crap filter. "4 spams a week through" if you get 1000 spam messages indicates God's gift to spam filtering.

Proportion is what it's all about. If you get a higher amount of spam, proportionally a larger number will get through. Simple maths.


Secondly ban Ninja from this forum for ever, or send him some sedatives.:groan: do ya feel better after that?

steelsporran
21-04-2005, 12:38 PM
Just mailed Xtra that I've had 4 in a week (usually 0) asking why. The latest even has "BUY" in the title!
I have suggested that if I have to open it to get to "the report as spam" button then the spammer has won, so why not link the report button to the select box?

KiwiTT_NZ
21-04-2005, 01:25 PM
My mum is on CLEAR.NET She gets so much spam accumulation in her SPAM folder that her total mailbox gets full and messages get bounced. There is no option to automatically delete SPAM filtered mail. Everyday almost, she needs to go to the WEBMail interface and clear out her SPAM folder so she can continue to received email.

I have suggested she change her email address and notify all the people in her address book, but to no avail.

I wish there was an option to automatically delete all spam

Agent_24
21-04-2005, 02:12 PM
Firstly I have a problem with xtra spam filter in that deletes my trademe searches.
That's odd, all my trademe emails get through fine :illogical

Misty
21-04-2005, 09:12 PM
Xtra has always seemed to have a poor spam filter.

I have no troubles at all. Xtra seem to screen 100% of our SPAM, probably about 3 a day -- with no significant exceptions. I can only think of one type which has been missed - we did get one which was addressed to "Fred" from an email address which had the same user name but Fred.Dagg@juno.co.nz ---not Fred.Dagg@xtra.co.nz. We did not read the email so no idea what it was about !
That was pretty tricky though and you would not expect that it would be picked up !!
Misty :thumbs:

Prescott
21-04-2005, 09:18 PM
gmail has a good spam filter

steelsporran
22-04-2005, 10:10 AM
Just mailed Xtra that I've had 4 in a week (usually 0) asking why. The latest even has "BUY" in the title!
I have suggested that if I have to open it to get to "the report as spam" button then the spammer has won, so why not link the report button to the select box?
Is Panda spam? I've just mailed xtra asking why I've got another from the same address I reported yesterday.

ninja
22-04-2005, 01:54 PM
Is Panda spam?What?

I've just mailed xtra asking why I've got another from the same address I reported yesterday.Spam filters don't block addresses. For a start, if you only submitted it yesterday it probably hasn't been processed yet. And secondly, blocking addresses is a waste of time, spam filters work on characteristics.

FrankS
22-04-2005, 02:19 PM
Curious to know if anybody has been receiving Russian language spam in the past few weeks, on an average get about 80 mails a day, about 30 are picked up as spam by Xtra, up to another 10 are Russian, the rest are good. Xtra has started picking up some of the Russian crap. One advantage of using MailWasher is that by filtering you can quickly bounce back and blacklist unwanted Russian spam. So far have only had 2 cases of blacklisted spam being repeated only for the next day.

Tom McB
22-04-2005, 04:38 PM
spam filters work on characteristics
That would be the third category if the explanation on this site (http://www.e-contentworks.com/newsletters/spamfilters0903.html) were accurate.

<sigh> build a good mousetrap and somebody will find a better mouse... :(