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Strommer
10-03-2005, 10:19 AM
Is it OK to simply pull out a USB Flash Drive when finished using it?
Or should it first be closed somehow?

The flash drive that I have did not come with any instructions.
Data: USB 2.0, 256 Mb, WinXP Home.

Metla
10-03-2005, 10:23 AM
Nope, its not a good idea.

When the drive is plugged in an icon will apear on the taskbar, before you remove the drive you need to click this icon which will start the "safely remove hardware" process.

godfather
10-03-2005, 10:26 AM
Technically you are advised to "Stop" the device using the "safe to remove hardware" icon that should be in the Tray.

The danger is that the PC still has buffered writes to do, and the files could get corrupted on the flash device.

Having said that I admit that I usually do not bother, and have not yet been caught. I am aware of some that have lost the files however, and needed to reformat the device.

Your choice, you know the value of the files stored on it I guess.

Metla
10-03-2005, 10:30 AM
I need to check my eyes, I could swear i just saw GF state he throws caution to the wind and just yanks the drive.

muhahahaha.

Murray P
10-03-2005, 11:01 AM
I need to check my eyes, I could swear i just saw GF state he throws caution to the wind and just yanks the drive.

muhahahaha.

No Mets, I think you need someone else to check your eyes, obviously yours aren't up to the task :D

Strommer
10-03-2005, 11:14 AM
Having said that I admit that I usually do not bother, and have not yet been caught. I am aware of some that have lost the files however, and needed to reformat the device.

Thanks GF, et. al. I too have not bothered to end the device properly, but have wondered what the worst could happen.

Thanks for the laugh, Metla. Nice start to the TradeF1 web site/

Graham L
10-03-2005, 11:50 AM
The reason you should tell the system you are removing the device is that OSs keep directories of disk in memory. When the contents change, the copy of the directory in memory is updated immediately. The copy on the disk is not. Similarly, writes to disks are buffered in memory, and may not be physically performed immediately.

If the "disk" is removed before the directory is written out to it, it will have an out-of-date directory. Not helpful. If you pull the disk while the directory is being written, it will have a corrupted directory. Even less helpful. :(

You are less likely to have problems with partly transferred files if you are too hasty, because if you interrupt the process at that stage there won't be a directory entry for the partial file. ;)

This is a problem with a history ... it goes back to CP/M (which is what DOS was based on). If you changed floppies without telling the system, it would use the diirectory of the old disk (which it still had in memory) to access the new disk. This was not a Good Thing. That's what Ctrl/C was for in CP/M: it meant "I have changed floppies, read the directory from the new one".

It's probably not a major problem (apart from the aggrieved messages from the OS) if you wait a reasonable time after the last operation you have used it in. All modern OSs write out all buffered stuff to disks regularly. (Linux users will see the disk light flicker every five seconds --- Linux has always gos something to tell the disks. Windows probably does the same, at a similar interval. )

Just don't pull a flash disk while its activity light is on. ;)

I always tell the system. When I remember to.:)

Murray P
10-03-2005, 12:07 PM
Thanks for the laugh, Metla. Nice start to the TradeF1 web site/

Looking good isn't it. Have you read the forum rules? Hilarious, even the spelling mistakes which I never noticed and make no comment on whatsoever.

pctek
10-03-2005, 02:16 PM
The USB interface standard was created with the hot-swappable feature in mind. Any USB device can be inserted or extracted while the computer is on. This applies to USB flash drives as well.
http://www.usbflashdrive.org/usbfd_faq.html#howdoi

There used to be a problem with floppies with the FAT and directories not being written properly if the application/OS hadn't closed the files and flushing the buffers.

theother1
10-03-2005, 03:59 PM
I have an idea that the "safely remove USB drive" icon is only available in XP.
I have win98se on the other box and I am sure that it doesn't appear in that.
You can look at the drive and see if the light has gone out, however, the USB socket on the back of the W98 box is installed upside down and it becomes a contortionists act to get down on the floor behind the box and try and see if the light is on.
I just give it plenty of time and yank it.
Rob

Metla
10-03-2005, 04:06 PM
I have had 2 die on me after yankin them out, No idea if it was releated or if there time was just up.

One just refused to be detected on any comp,and the other would reduce in size by whatever sized file was put on it, It started at 256mb, if I put a 128mb file on it then moved to a different machine it would decide there were no files on the device and its total size was now 128mb.....Multiple formats didn't help,

theother1
10-03-2005, 06:04 PM
Metla, are you pushing it for fun or do you have clearance to advertise or am I missing the joke??????

Murray P
10-03-2005, 06:20 PM
Win 2k has the safely remove icon in the system tray as well, don't know about any other OS's, thought it was a driver thing not OS dependent.

AFAIK, the tradeF1 thing is sanctioned the same way chatF1 is. As long as it's not directly associated with PC World and IDG.

FoxyMX
10-03-2005, 06:30 PM
Metla, are you pushing it for fun or do you have clearance to advertise or am I missing the joke??????
http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=54565&highlight=buy+sell

Strommer
10-03-2005, 10:37 PM
It's probably not a major problem (apart from the aggrieved messages from the OS) if you wait a reasonable time after the last operation you have used it in. All modern OSs write out all buffered stuff to disks regularly. ... Just don't pull a flash disk while its activity light is on.

Thanks to Graham and others for putting more geek :nerd: stuff in my head. It is a good feeling to be better informed. :D

I will take more care of my flash drive from now on.

By the way, I have assumed that these USB 2.0 flash drives will not work in Win98 / Win98SE / or WinME. It has to be Win2000 or XP, or Linux. Correct? How about WinXP flash memory being transferred to a Mac?

zqwerty
10-03-2005, 10:51 PM
I have a USB 2.0 flash drive working on Win98SE, it came with a CD which gave the OS the ability to run it. Win2K just worked.

Metla
11-03-2005, 12:42 AM
Lemon Chiffon???

I say no more.


Muhahahahaha.

FoxyMX
11-03-2005, 09:18 AM
Having said that I admit that I usually do not bother, and have not yet been caught. I am aware of some that have lost the files however, and needed to reformat the device.Geez Godfather, I really didn't want to hear that. When I first got my USB flash drive I didn't bother stopping it before removing until I read your sage advice to do so many moons ago and now you're telling everyone you don't practice what you preach. :p



By the way, I have assumed that these USB 2.0 flash drives will not work in Win98 / Win98SE / or WinME. It has to be Win2000 or XP, or Linux. Correct? Rubbish. I use mine in every PC that has USB ports in it, whether Win 98, 98SE, ME, 2000 or XP. The older versions, eg 98, 98SE and ME require the drivers to be loaded from the supplied driver CD first though, but 2000 and XP just get on with reading the thing. My Fedora drive also has no problems with it.

It's magic. :)

Jeremy
11-03-2005, 09:30 AM
By default XP and I assume most other OSs are configured for "fast drive removal" or similar. This makes the drive slower, but it writes data as soon as it can, so that it doesn't matter so much when you do a "surprise" removal. Just like Graham said, wait for the activity light to stop flickering and it's all good.

FoxyMX
11-03-2005, 09:46 AM
One little thing I discovered just the other day is that in Win XP you only need to left-click on the USB icon in the Tasktray then click on "Safely remove hardware" to get it removed. Previously I was right-clicking on the icon and choosing "Safely remove hardware" which brought up a window to choose which USB device to disable. This method involved five clicks whereas the former method has only two.

Trust me to be such a slow learner. :groan:

Strommer
11-03-2005, 09:49 AM
The older versions, eg 98, 98SE and ME require the drivers to be loaded from the supplied driver CD first though,

Thanks for the useful info, Foxy.

Graham L
11-03-2005, 02:37 PM
W98 doesn't provide a safe remove icon for the USB device (though it has one for PC Card). But I rightclick on the Removable Disk device in My Computer, and use Eject. Same effect ... tells the system the device is to be removed, even though there isn't any little man to push the plug out.

Murray P
11-03-2005, 02:50 PM
W98 doesn't provide a safe remove icon for the USB device (though it has one for PC Card). But I rightclick on the Removable Disk device in My Computer, and use Eject. Same effect ... tells the system the device is to be removed, even though there isn't any little man to push the plug out.

You're having us on, right? If there's no little man, who in hell has been gobbling up all the food and drink, including a bear after 4 oclock on a Friday, that I've been putting in the PC's food tray all these years (the Food Depositor & Dispensory)?? Come on smarty pants answer that one, I don't think you know what your talking about buddy.

Graham L
11-03-2005, 03:32 PM
There's the little man who opens the CD drawer in my W98 laptop,when I use Eject on the CD. But his union rules don't let him touch a USB connector.

godfather
11-03-2005, 03:54 PM
...who in hell has been gobbling up all the food and drink, including a bear ....

Heard of being hungry enough to eat a horse, but a bear?

Neil McC
11-03-2005, 04:35 PM
"One little thing I discovered just the other day is that in Win XP you only need to left-click on the USB icon in the Tasktray then click on "Safely remove hardware" to get it removed. Previously I was right-clicking on the icon and choosing "Safely remove hardware" which brought up a window to choose which USB device to disable. This method involved five clicks whereas the former method has only two."
Thanks from me too, FoxyMX, for that info.I've been having trouble with my card reader, which is seen as a drive,turning off as well as my outboard hard drive when I've used the 5 click method.Now it doesn't.

Metla
11-03-2005, 06:06 PM
Must breed em tough down Wellington way.

Murray P
11-03-2005, 07:37 PM
Must breed em tough down Wellington way.

First we wrestle them, then we pop what's left of em in the wiz and suck em up with straws made out of blackberry canes :angry

The thorns on the canes a real useful too for picking the fluffy bits out of your gullet :thumbs:

Graham, you need to de-unionise your PC staff lad. Never managed to make it stick in Windows though, the blighters are always taking extended breaks, go slows and strikes :groan:

zqwerty
11-03-2005, 11:09 PM
"Safely remove hardware"

And in Win2K as well, thanks for that info, I have spent a lot of time going through the aformentioned rigmarole.

gibler
11-03-2005, 11:53 PM
It's probably not a major problem (apart from the aggrieved messages from the OS) if you wait a reasonable time after the last operation you have used it in. All modern OSs write out all buffered stuff to disks regularly. ... Just don't pull a flash disk while its activity light is on.

Thanks to Graham and others for putting more geek :nerd: stuff in my head. It is a good feeling to be better informed. :D

I will take more care of my flash drive from now on.

By the way, I have assumed that these USB 2.0 flash drives will not work in Win98 / Win98SE / or WinME. It has to be Win2000 or XP, or Linux. Correct? How about WinXP flash memory being transferred to a Mac?

With 98 you need the drivers and they tend to be specific to the maker/model of the flash drive. This can confuse some people as they see others using their faslh drive but their one isn't recognised.

Mac OS 8.5 or higher and OS X can all work just fine (assuming you format the usb drive with FAT). OS X will leave a trail of files like .DS_Store and sometimes ._filename. OS 9 gives you the joy of leaving folders such as TheVolumeSettingsFolder Network Trash and others. You just ignore them.

Mac to Windows problems are usually mostly filenames with characters such as /?<> etc that are allowed on a Mac but Windows will reject them. OS 9 filenames tend to not have file extensions on them so adding them will allow windows to find an App to open them.

Moving people from OS 9 to XP is a real pain when they have loads of files named "Meeting # 12/3/03" etc. Okay there are tools to rename them but they don't seem too stable :yuck:

Zygar
12-03-2005, 06:37 AM
You're supposed to STOP devices?
.... :horrified

Jeremy
12-03-2005, 09:24 AM
You're supposed to STOP devices?
.... :horrified
In linux you can't even eject a CD-ROM until you've told the operating system that you need to.

Misty
12-03-2005, 02:04 PM
I have an idea that the "safely remove USB drive" icon is only available in XP.
Rob

It is available in Windows ME too !!
Misty :cool: