PDA

View Full Version : Linux... Windows. Questions



Onyks
22-01-2005, 02:21 AM
Can anyone explain the main differences between WinXp and Linux (new vers)

Does Linux have a specific set of programs or can Windows programs be run?

Could file extensions prevent sharing of data between the OSs?

I am building a new computer (i posted about it too :p) and i just wanted to know how linux, in general, measures up to windows. im way too poor for windows but i could run a non-updatable version if i had to. Id like to do the SUSE Linux eval iso but i dont have a computer as of yet, so i will sit and ponder and hopefully you all will ponder with me.

If theres another alternative that i am unaware of... or if im just way off on what i am talking about plz dont let me be ignorant :D

Thx and have a good one

Tux
22-01-2005, 02:31 AM
win xp is licensed, differnet kernel to the linux kernal, linux is free under the gnu general public license. yes linux can run windows applications under software such as wine. if you are just your box standard internet gaming and email, then windows would be best as it is more common and more compatible with everyday software such as games, and office. While theoretically you could do eveyrthing you could with windows in linux, you need to know what you are doing in windows. I suggest you trying knoppix (bootable from cd), if you like what you are using, i suggest you partition your hard drive to include both a windows version and a linux distro such as mandrake or debian.

Onyks
22-01-2005, 02:47 AM
Thanks for the info
Knoppix, what is it? lol And if possible, where to get?
I will try it. i have some pretty good partitioning software i can get hold of i think

is there a program that allows multi-os setups...? like a prompt that comes right after system/bios checks asking "which OS would you like to use today"?

I still would like to use the -straight from dvd- iso approach to eval linux just for kicks.

Would it be possible to run two hard drives both with separate OS?

Thanks again

Tux
22-01-2005, 02:52 AM
it just called dual booting, its setup in the bios. you can either set it as, if you want it to alternate everytime you boot the computer or ask. Knoppix is a boot from cd os, no installation, you can get it from dse i think for about $4. OS's dont usually come on a dvd however. Yes you can run 2 different hard drives, its just like partitioning one hard drive, it shows up as 2 or more "hard drives" in which you can set the capacity. hwen you set up windows xp it has a partition wizard or you could use the partitioning utilities found in linux when installing or partiton magic

Chilling_Silence
22-01-2005, 08:31 AM
Yes, Linux excels at Dual-Booting.

Basically you want to install Windows first, and then Linux. During installation it should all be done automatically for you.

Ive not been a fan of SuSE - It wasnt stable enough when I last used it in 9.1 personal edition. I would suggest something like Fedora Core 3, or Xandros even.

Knoppix is great, PM me if you want it, I always get the latest versions when I find out about them because its so great to have for so many reasons.

There's many different flavors of Linux Distro's (Distributions), all which have their own specific aim etc.
Xandros is designed for the average joe at home coming from using Windows
Fedora Core is a distro that caters to the tastes of many
Debian has a reputation for being... err... less than easy to install.

Im heading out this morning to help a friend format his PC, and a 2nd friend wipe WinXP and switch to either Xandros or Fedora Core 3. He's having so many virus problem, and spyware etc.
He only does web surfing, email, chatting, and uses MS Word. All this can be easily done on Linux without the outside world knowing you're any different.

I agree with Tux, why not Dual-Boot?

Prescott
22-01-2005, 09:18 AM
Yes, Linux excels at Dual-Booting.

Knoppix is great, PM me if you want it, I always get the latest versions when I find out about them because its so great to have for so many reasons.



i think he is in the USA

and with knoppix you can see your ntfs partions, which is handy.
with these latest games, do alot of them support linux?, overall how good is the support for linux in games?

Perry
22-01-2005, 12:59 PM
Having just made a post on home LAN problems,
how does Linux manage LANs compared to Win OS?

Does anyone know if Quicken runs OK on Linux?

From comments in the thread, is it fair to observe
that if word processing, web-surfing, e-mail, spread
sheets and graphics (incl scanner and OCR) are the
dominant uses, that Linux would serve as well, if not
better than Win?

Perry

vinref
22-01-2005, 01:29 PM
Can anyone explain the main differences between WinXp and Linux (new vers)

Does Linux have a specific set of programs or can Windows programs be run?

Could file extensions prevent sharing of data between the OSs?

Funny thing is, when I really got into open source, Windows-only programs didn't seem to matter so much anymore. I became "independent" of formats, file-extensions, and the like, because open source forced me to learn and to manipulate most of them at will.


I am building a new computer (i posted about it too :p) and i just wanted to know how linux, in general, measures up to windows. im way too poor for windows but i could run a non-updatable version if i had to. Id like to do the SUSE Linux eval iso but i dont have a computer as of yet, so i will sit and ponder and hopefully you all will ponder with me.

Poverty started me down the open source route as well, but now it has become a sort of belief with me. I refuse to buy a PC for more than $100. And that's the great thing with open source. You can have a very useable system for that little money.


If theres another alternative that i am unaware of... or if im just way off on what i am talking about plz dont let me be ignorant :D

Thx and have a good one

Yeah, there are alternatives. I think I have found the best - FreeBSD.

Graham L
22-01-2005, 02:19 PM
Perry: Unix is nearly 30 years old and has been running LANs and WANs for well over 20 years. The Ethernet protocol TCP/IP was built on Unix. The Internet was built with Unix.

Linux is a "*nix". It networks "natively".

Windows isn't. It doesn't.

:D

vinref
22-01-2005, 02:34 PM
Having just made a post on home LAN problems,
how does Linux manage LANs compared to Win OS?

As GrahamL inferred, Linux/Unix were designed from the outset to be multiuser/networked OSs.


Does anyone know if Quicken runs OK on Linux?

Just googled for that, and people have run Quicken on Linux via CodeWeavers CrossOver Office. I have had a look at GnuCash (http://www.gnucash.org) , but double-entry accounting twists my brains. It is meant to be the open source equivalent of Quicken et al.


From comments in the thread, is it fair to observe
that if word processing, web-surfing, e-mail, spread
sheets and graphics (incl scanner and OCR) are the
dominant uses, that Linux would serve as well, if not
better than Win?

Perry

I would say Linux is better in a great many ways, but that is my experience. Give it a go - it's (almost) free. If you don't like it, then just delete and go back to Windows.

Perry
22-01-2005, 02:42 PM
Perry: Unix is nearly 30 years old and has been running LANs and WANs for well over 20 years. The Ethernet protocol TCP/IP was built on Unix. The Internet was built with Unix.
Linux is a "*nix". It networks "natively". Windows isn't. It doesn't.

Succinct and to the point! (Yes, I did know how
it's pronounced. I've been ready to give Win away for
quite some time. I've never used IE, nor Outlook.

I'm almost at the edge. Eudora & Quicken may be my last
stumbling blocks. (Eudora doesn't seem to be available for
Linux, but I see that Opera is available for Linux).

Says he, shaking just a little . . . .

Perry

Perry
22-01-2005, 03:14 PM
Just googled for that, and
people have run Quicken on Linux via
CodeWeavers CrossOver Office. I have had a
look at GnuCash (http://www.gnucash.org),
but double-entry accounting twists my
brains. It is meant to be the open source
equivalent of Quicken et al.
I use the last "personal" NZ version that also
included GST accounting/reconciliation. I.e.
not a business version.


I would say Linux is better in a great
many ways, but that is my experience. Give it a
go - it's (almost) free. If you don't like it, then
just delete and go back to Windows.
The major impediment for me is the down-
time. The pick up and learn new ways
time. What inclines me to even consider the
change is simple: I'm apprehensive about the
future. A crude analogy might elucidate . . .

A new car might have air/con., electric
windows, reclinable seats, power steering, etc.,
but it's still a car in the sense that it persists
with all the things the old car did, in more or
less the same way, but with some extra features.
The new car has a steering wheel, windscreen,
seats, ignition key, etc., but I don't need to sit a
new drivers test to use it. Sure, the power ash
tray may be lost on me, but that's because I don't
smoke.

But with PCs, it's not that way. The changes
between one OS version and another are so
great that it's almost like going from a trike to
a scooter, or a bike to a car. I.e. it's almost a
complete change even though the keyboard,
monitor etc., almost remain constants. As the
damned things get evermore "feature-rich," the
new OS impairs existing users, even if it does
"empower" new users Ė which I doubt.

So I get comfortable Ė stuck in a rut, if you
prefer. My PC does everything I want it to with
not too much grief. Then the h/ware dies and I
find that the old OS doesn't want to work well
on new h/ware, designed seemingly for new
OS. ("I'm sorry sir" says PC Bill Glod, "but
your old driving habits and licence aren't valid
for this machine.")

So, with newer hardware machines, I hope to sit
comfortably for a few years. But with the pace
of PC progress, I'm concerned that when this
generation of h/ware dies, the next OS will be so
baffling, so (needlessly) different, so enigmatic
and possibly so intrusive that I'll be forced to
go and get the typewriter out of the attic.

Will open source and Linux be a form of
insurance against this potential threat?

No, I donít fear change. I started with
CP/M, 8 bit at 4Hz. But I donít want to
grapple with change for the sake of change.

Perry

Graham L
22-01-2005, 03:28 PM
I think Linux will be around for a while. In fact, a version installed now probably won't need to be changed. ;) It doesn't need a new version every year. Or even every five years.

If you started with CP/M, perhaps you should use the command line in Linux, rather than a GUI. I use GUIs only when I have to. :D

You can get the three CDs of Mandrake 10 from DSE (XC4035) for $1 (from only some branches). That's a good distribution.

The "Live CD" versions (which just boot and run from a CD) of Knoppix and Morphix are both in one package from DSE. XC4034 is being quit for $1, XC4043 is presumably a later version is $4-95.

vinref has the order wrong. Unix existed for quite a while before networks were invented. :D Unix was built because there was a PDP7 with no software sitting idle at Bell labs, and the guys wanted to get a game running on it. :D

When it grew to being useful, and was given out to universities, a lot of work was done to improve it. The BSD flavour was developed at University of California (that's why there are a lot of copyright notices in the source code). Bill Joy when a student wrote a lot of the network stuff, designed a workstation to use on a network (the first Sun) and left and formed a company.

Chilling_Silence
22-01-2005, 11:03 PM
I agree, if it works it works, and if you're happy and dont need more then why change?

I however prefer to be slightly more cutting edge...

....In saying that, Fedora have a goal of two to three distro releases per year :)

Graham L
23-01-2005, 02:52 PM
The cutting edge is very often, with good reason, called the "bleeding" edge.

Onyks
23-01-2005, 08:06 PM
Thanks to all about linux/win info i think i will dual it :)

Although im still not sure as to what OS to use other than winXP. Only reason im using XP at all is im used to it and its somethin to fall back on if i screw everything else up.

Thanks folks
___
and yes i realized this was an NZ forum but you guys seemed smart, not to mention the forum is endorsed (right word?) by a mag called pc WORLD - HA! now i notice the sub-title is New Zealand -- umm... oxymoron? -- Oh well ill help when i can with others problems/polls unless you just want my foreign self gone. :p

thx again

Perry
24-01-2005, 12:08 PM
Oh well ill help when i can with others problems/polls unless you just want my foreign self gone. thx again
. . . . . No national differences are likely to intrude, here, so worry not!


I however prefer to be slightly more cutting edge...
. . . . . What do you mean by that?


I think Linux will be around for a while. In fact, a version installed now probably won't need to be changed. It doesn't need a new version every year. Or even every five years.

My question wasn't really about Linux. More about Windows
and how the OS changes may be so great after the few years
of my current h/ware's life expectancy is up, that a new Win
PC will be diabolical as a learning curve and I may simply
not want that bother. For PC techs & professionals, the
changes will be incremental over that same time. For me,
the changes will be more like a seismic wave and engulf
me.

The fundamental dilemma that I see is in just what is
an operating system? The profound problems that seem
to have become inherent in Windows is that it's trying to
be a hybrid of OS & application s/ware. And - given that
I'm a user and not a tech - from my side of the keyboard,
the OS has suffered severely in the attempt to make it
an all things to all PC users. Both in simplicity, stability
and reliability.

Earlier, there was a comment about which Linux?
I found that puzzling. Whey are they varied? I thought
the goal was uniformity and simplicity. What am
I missing to comprehend that remark correctly?

Perry

Chilling_Silence
24-01-2005, 02:13 PM
. . . . . What do you mean by that?

Well, lets just say that rather than wait for RPM's to be built, Ive built a whole OS from Source Code.
Sometimes Im using a version of my fav IM Program Gaim, before their homepage has even been updated :cool:

Mark.p
24-01-2005, 05:08 PM
Some interesting coments. Chill there are some very easy to install Deb distros-Xandros and Knoppix- hdd installs for example. Personnally I prefer a Deb installation and I'm no wiz ;). Perry jump in the water's fine. You may even surprise yourself hah? Venref yes its great for recycling those cast offs-I have a similar philosophy as yours re PC purchases lol. XP does not play all my legacy games, thats whats my win98 box is for. No need at all to use XP in this house hol. Don't even miss it, funny ol thing. Onyx give Linux a crack. Whats the worst you can do? Learn something new maybe? Best of luck.

robsonde
24-01-2005, 05:19 PM
and yes i realized this was an NZ forum but you guys seemed smart, not to mention the forum is endorsed (right word?) by a mag called pc WORLD - HA! now i notice the sub-title is New Zealand -- umm... oxymoron? -- Oh well ill help when i can with others problems/polls unless you just want my foreign self gone. :p



I think that we are all happy to have a USA user, just keep in mind that a lot of prices and shops that we recomend might be a bit different in USA.
EG: i dont think you have DSE shops in USA but it is basicly a electronics shop.

Chilling_Silence
24-01-2005, 06:44 PM
Yes, Knoppix and Xandros, and a myriad of other debian-derivatives

Debian itself is not so easy

I like the looks of NavynOS as a great Gentoo starter

International Visitors? Why not, the www is an international place :)

johnd
24-01-2005, 08:37 PM
Earlier, there was a comment about which Linux?
I found that puzzling. Whey are they varied? I thought
the goal was uniformity and simplicity. What am
I missing to comprehend that remark correctly?

Perry

There is a part that does not vary - that is the kernel. The rest is about freedom and choice so I suggest it is a good thing that there are lots of distributions. However there are some standards that most distributions are starting to work towards.

Mark.p
24-01-2005, 09:31 PM
Thanks to all about linux/win info i think i will dual it :) . -SNIP- Only reason im using XP at all is im used to it and its somethin to fall back on if i screw everything else up.


That's a good idea. Personnally I'd use another system to get the hang of Linux. You can use a lot of OSS proggies the are available on the MS and GNU/Linux OSs. :D

Murray P
24-01-2005, 10:44 PM
Start of with a live CD to get the feel. As has been stated Knoppix is a good place to start. One I have a little bias for is Mepis (http://www.mepis.org/) which is a live CD like Knoppix with the aim of being a Windows replacement like Xandros. It's Debian based, so offers the large Debian software repository and the it's stability (if you want that). It's also a more straight forward install to your hard drive than Knoppix, if you decide to do so.

Another advantage of trying the live CD versions is, typically, the download is smaller, being one or at most two CD's, of course, moot if you purchase online or from a shop.