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volkan
03-01-2005, 02:54 AM
Hi,
I need some help:
I have started a small webdesign, and hosting company.
For my webdesign, I have mainly been using Open Source
CMs, but now I have 2 questions:

1), Im working from home, and im using 'downloaded' programs to
edit pages, photos etc. As im starting a business, could I get in trouble?

2) I have just downloaded a number of Website Templates, from Kazza.
When checking, these templates are about $50 each, and I have about 50 of these. If I edit the pages, am I allowd to use these, without the risk or getting in trouble?

Please share your views.

Cheers
Volkan

george12
03-01-2005, 03:50 AM
Firstly, it is really not a good idea to have your e-mail address as your user name. Spam bots crawl web pages looking for people who have done just that. Perhaps a Mod can change it.

Secondly, do you mean """""download"""" *wink wink* (illegal) or free programs that you have downloaded?

If the latter, then that should be fine. If the former, then you may be in for large penalties, depending on the size of your 'small company'.

Most people who use illegal software don't get caught - but if they do, they realise that piracy is an unforgiving industry. I'm talking 4 digit fines (much more for companies).

Cheers George

volkan
03-01-2005, 05:03 AM
Hi,
Yes i do mean 'download' wink wink!
Well, what Im doing is not really a company!
This is just a side job, so I can make some money.
Im still studying. My webhosting may grow.
But Im making websites, (at the moment) for
Aeromoddelers.
Sorry, I dont quite understand what you mean by 'latter' and 'former'!
Do you think I can use the templetes, without people finding out?

Oh, can a mod please change my username to 'volkan'
I dunno what happened there!

Greg
03-01-2005, 07:43 AM
Sorry, I dont quite understand what you mean by 'latter' and 'former'!

Latter = legit free software, former = "wink wink" software


Do you think I can use the templetes, without people finding out?

Possibly but better check the code first - you'll see copyright in the meta tags if they've bothered to insert it.

I'd recommend though if you ever want to make money out of site creation then you develop some skills first without having to pinch other people's designs.

Mike
03-01-2005, 09:10 AM
2) I have just downloaded a number of Website Templates, from Kazza.
When checking, these templates are about $50 each, and I have about 50 of these. If I edit the pages, am I allowd to use these, without the risk or getting in trouble?
If you are using something that usually would be paid for, but you haven't paid for it (without the permission of the owner/seller) then you cannot use it, modified or not. If you do it could be considered theft. Copyright etc. on the net is a vague area at the moment, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

Either develop your own (not too hard to do) or purchase a few of the templates.

Mike.

Scouse
03-01-2005, 09:34 AM
This posting has a bad smell to it. The material being downloaded and pirated ..... Yes i do mean 'download' wink wink! Well, what Im doing is not really a company! This is just a side job, so I can make some money...... could well be mine. Or some other honest bastard. On your bike mate and wink-wink somewhere else.

Sb0h
03-01-2005, 09:46 AM
Using pirated software for personal or business use is irrelevant, it is theft any way you look at it. There are very severe penalties for software theft, it's not worth the risk. Software packages should be treated just like a tradesman would treat his tools, buy them!!!

Murray P
03-01-2005, 10:35 AM
It's fairly simple to check the copyright, EULA and/or terms of use.

Many webdesigners for eg, allow the use of their basic templates for free or for a nominal fee in the hopes that you'll move to bigger and better, paid, ones. But a tag for 50/ suggests that in this instance that is not the case. Look for some truly free ones.

The use of Open Source is usually fine, but check the documentation before proceeding.

I would view anything procured via Kazaa as highly suspicious. Use a search engine to find what you want, make sure it's legit.

Mike
03-01-2005, 10:42 AM
Good advice Murray.

:)

Mike.

volkan
03-01-2005, 11:41 AM
Hi
Thanks for that.
I do understand what you mean. The problem with me is that, I can make what is in the templates, thats easy, I have been website building for years now. My problem is that, I cannot just think of a design that would look nice, (colours, layout etc.)!!!! What I dont understand is:

Lets say I downloaded a template via Kazza or similar. All I can see in the simple HTML, and images, no meta tags, and no affiliaion to the original designer. If i do get in trouble, how will the creater prove that it is his work.
I could just argue that it is mine!? (not saying that I will)

As for software, MILLIONS of ppl use illigal software. Lots of ppl even have a illigal version on Windows or Liniux. So, what are the chances i get caught?
Same issue with music and films. I only heard that ppl only target and people who share/upload loads of files? Am I wrong.

Cheers
Volkan
(ps, great forums!)

Metla
03-01-2005, 11:54 AM
First off,Let me state that i don't care in the slightest how your source your programs or materials, But you could at the least not try and justify theft.

Mike
03-01-2005, 11:57 AM
As for software, MILLIONS of ppl use illigal software. Lots of ppl even have a illigal version on Windows or Liniux. So, what are the chances i get caught?
Same issue with music and films. I only heard that ppl only target and people who share/upload loads of files? Am I wrong.
It's still illegal!??!?! Plenty of people bash old ladies in their homes and don't get caught... that doesn't mean its okay to do it does it? No it doesn't. The concept is still the same - it's still illegal.

A problem some wannabe web-designers have is that they sit down and try to do the page from scratch without thinking about design first. My suggestion is that you sit down with some paper and coloured pencils (or similar) and draw up a design, and once you've got one you like then put it into html.

Mike.

FoxyMX
03-01-2005, 12:06 PM
The problem with me is that, I can make what is in the templates, thats easy, I have been website building for years now. My problem is that, I cannot just think of a design that would look nice, (colours, layout etc.)!!!!
Then why don't you just create your own template from viewing a page that you like without actually using the page's code? You can then add your own customisation (colours, graphics, etc) to make it "yours". Why do you have to use another person's code that they probably spent a lot of time on?



As for software, MILLIONS of ppl use illigal software. Lots of ppl even have a illigal version on Windows or Liniux. So, what are the chances i get caught?
Same issue with music and films. I only heard that ppl only target and people who share/upload loads of files? Am I wrong.

It is unlikely you will get caught but there are moral obligations. Two (or two million) wrongs don't make a right. I am sure you wouldn't like it if your hard work and talent was pilfered without your permission or reward if you had not made your work available for free.

There is nothing wrong with "borrowing" other people's ideas as long as you put your own time into creating the code and customise it so that the final result isn't an exact replica of someone else's site.

tweak'e
03-01-2005, 12:17 PM
why do you NEED illegal software ???

really....there is nothing that can't be done with legally free software.

are people so lazy they have to rip off a known product instead of useing a free version??

godfather
03-01-2005, 12:17 PM
Not get caught?

We have a tacit admission of the practice, we have a name and address for the person making the admission, all on a public website.

Please note that the poster has gone to some trouble on their own webpages to point out that all content is copyright, but does not seem to accept that the same rules apply for other content including that received from places such as Kazaa ....

I think some people are already counting the reward money ...

Zygar
03-01-2005, 12:40 PM
Not sure how helpful this will be to you, but I found this (http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html) faq about copyrights.

volkan
03-01-2005, 12:51 PM
Hi,
First of all, I will NOT use the templates, my second post was just for curiosity. It was something that I have been wondering about for ages, but never found the correct forum to ask in. These templates where downloaded months ago, I just never used them as I had no idea about copyright issues.


Then why don't you just create your own template from viewing a page that you like without actually using the page's code? You can then add your own customisation (colours, graphics, etc) to make it "yours". Why do you have to use another person's code that they probably spent a lot of time on?

Good idea, but could i get in trouble for copying ideas?

Mike, thanks for the advice, as Im not a pro webdesigner, I never acctually thought about using a pencil and paper! lol.

Thanks for your views.

Mike
03-01-2005, 01:03 PM
Good idea, but could i get in trouble for copying ideas?
It is a possibility, especially if the code is very similar. But I think if you use completely your own code and styles etc. you might be safe (but I think it'd be better, and safer, to try designing your own first).


Mike, thanks for the advice, as Im not a pro webdesigner, I never acctually thought about using a pencil and paper! lol.
No problem - I was there myself a few years ago when I was trying to teach myself, but had (still have) absolutely no design sense. I actually got my wife to draw up a few (she's a bit more arty than myself), and then I made them slightly less arty ;) then put them into html. I haven't done any recently though - it was just a hobby back then.

Mike.

FoxyMX
03-01-2005, 01:09 PM
Hi,
First of all, I will NOT use the templates, my second post was just for curiosity. It was something that I have been wondering about for ages, but never found the correct forum to ask in. These templates where downloaded months ago, I just never used them as I had no idea about copyright issues.
That is good. At least you have made that quite clear now.




Good idea, but could i get in trouble for copying ideas?
Not for copying ideas and then personalising the pages so they are not blatant copies, no, I very much doubt it. Especially if you create the pages from scratch with your own code.

If you have a look around the web there are heaps of similar-looking sites created by different designers. I am sure lots of them create pages based on what they like the look of but then add their own ideas and customisations.

E|im
03-01-2005, 02:42 PM
Buying all the software you need to start making webpages can add up pretty quickly into $3000+, Photoshop, StudioMX, OS, etc. If he's only making them part time and for no real profit he would probably end up with a large deficit for a long time.

tweak'e
03-01-2005, 03:06 PM
Buying all the software you need to start making webpages can add up pretty quickly into $3000+, Photoshop, StudioMX, OS, etc. If he's only making them part time and for no real profit he would probably end up with a large deficit for a long time.
you don't NEED photoshop, studioMX etc to make web pages. you NEED any paid program, if you have windows then theres enough on it to start with (and the rest is a small download away) and if you have linux (read FREE) then theres even more advaiable (often comes with the distro).

Murray P
03-01-2005, 04:42 PM
Just a point for your info: A quick way to get caught out, is by using p2p software to download anything. You can not be sure of the validity of the source.

Check what your own country's copyright and IP laws say. In NZ, for eg, much of what is in the aforelinked site does not apply. AFAIK in NZ, paintings/images/graphics are automatically copyrighted, text has to be marked in some way for it to be so [no, I won't go into the evils of the US IP laws, at this time]. This is to prevent common terms/usage being cornered by someone as it can be in some countries.

sambaird
03-01-2005, 05:09 PM
Hi,
First of all, I will NOT use the templates,
who is going to be using them then

Winston001
03-01-2005, 09:36 PM
Yes it is a breach of copyright to copy someone elses creation. No, it is not a breach to be inspired by someone elses work, and then create your own.

Really, as has already been pointed out, this is not only a legal issue. It is a moral question. Whether many others act unlawfully is beside the point. We each have to make moral judgements for our own behaviour. Deliberately copying and using someone elses work for personal gain is wrong.

The copyright issue is a real connundrum. You can photocopy once for personal use. Not for business.

In the IT world, there are loud calls for copyright to be abandoned on the basis it limits people from software development. Sort of like a cork in a bottle of ingenuity.

On the other hand I'm sure those people who have spent months and years developing software feel the need for protection.

Murray P
03-01-2005, 10:39 PM
Yes it is a breach of copyright to copy someone elses creation. No, it is not a breach to be inspired by someone elses work, and then create your own.

Really, as has already been pointed out, this is not only a legal issue. It is a moral question. Whether many others act unlawfully is beside the point. We each have to make moral judgements for our own behaviour. Deliberately copying and using someone elses work for personal gain is wrong.

The copyright issue is a real connundrum. You can photocopy once for personal use. Not for business.

In the IT world, there are loud calls for copyright to be abandoned on the basis it limits people from software development. Sort of like a cork in a bottle of ingenuity.

On the other hand I'm sure those people who have spent months and years developing software feel the need for protection.


Well put Winnie.

However, I think the main issue with software and the topic of much angst on either side of the debate is not so much copyright but patenting of it. But that's another whole can of worms.

volkan
03-01-2005, 11:45 PM
who is going to be using them then

Nobody, but I might get some ides from them, or purchase one or two I like. I am keeping them.

drb1
04-01-2005, 02:06 AM
Well put Winnie.

However, I think the main issue with software and the topic of much angst on either side of the debate is not so much copyright but patenting of it. But that's another whole can of worms.

Patenting and the Evil American pratice among drug and S/W Companies in particular of just slightly tweaking the design and patenting effectivly for all time.

D.

~Patenting software is like patenting the text of a book. Neither is necessary to protect Intellectual Property~ (Unknown)