View Full Version : Apology to d.murray

09-11-2004, 09:56 AM
My apologies to you d.murray, It wasn't my intention to get your thread locked.
Maybe BB will just delete my post & re-open your thread

09-11-2004, 10:49 AM
We'll let it go, I think. But here's a tip, if someone starts a thread, in which they voice a valid opinion why don't you all try to either

1] discuss the point politely if it interests you or
2] ignore the posts and thread if it does not.

There is no reason to turn it into a series of personal attacks on other users for no damn reason.

No one forces you to post. No one robs any of you of your free will or capacity for mature thought. If you can't express a polite opinion don't say a thing. That simple.

09-11-2004, 11:12 AM
No sweat.

All I made was an observation having had some difficulty in understanding some of the posts. I didn't expect to hit some obviously raw nerves, so sorry for that

09-11-2004, 11:17 AM
nice to see a happy ending

09-11-2004, 11:19 AM
We do good work here, I thought it a bit on the nose to appear out of no where and state you find it all appalling, disappointing, and a worry for the future!!!

Do you really consider the English language has any bearing on the future?

Is the world in the state it is because we no longer talk like that cat Shakespeare?

Somehow I doubt it,

Anyhow, I will say no m ore on the subject, if at any point you need something clarified then simply ask.

09-11-2004, 11:30 AM
As to your original enquiry about spelling, it also irritates me. There have been various debates in the past.

The summary of views can be stated as follows:

1. English is not a first language for everyone, so some tolerance is fair.

2. Not everyone realises there is a spell-checker. Odd but true.

3. Text messaging and current educational theory means spelling and grammar are of secondary importance - provided the meaning is conveyed. Of course this results in gibberish and a dumbing down of language.

4. Some people are in such a hurry to post that they simply don't care.

I'm with you. Encouraging correct spelling and grammar enables accurate communication and the easy exchange of ideas. The best idea is to lead by example because telling people can cause resentment. :D

10-11-2004, 01:15 AM
I endorse completely the ideas in Winston's post.

I've been lucky with spelling - not only raised in the hard school of "getting it right or else." but having no major difficulties in learning it. Seemingly, it comes down to the bit of the brain which recognises & remembers words. By fluke, I had it right.

I took that for granted for years as a journalist until I did an in-depth study on dyslexia, which not only affected children's ability to spell, but - far more importantly - to learn to read in extreme cases. That bit of the brain wasn't working well - more often in boys than in girls.
(Sadly, dyslexia wasn't recognised in the official education system then. Hopefully, that's changed by now?).
But when I became a sub-editor responsible for copy, it was a different story. I wasn't looking at scripts from dyslectics, merely kids who hadn't been taught to spell & who didn't think that was important - obviously because their schools didn't.
Spelling had gone the way of grammar...Kaput!
The education system had changed its priorities. Not a lot those on the outside could do about that...
(Having said that, it was still better than today's text stuff. But I assume people DO know that's only for cellphone messages.)

Well, I'm taking a long time to get around to my major point - which is, there are many reasons people can't spell.
What I see on this forum sometimes horrifies me - if I'm being a spelling purist.
But that would be pretty stupid here. Computer info is what we come for.

Quite apart from the valid points Winston raises, I am married to a man who just can't spell. He can drive past a sign which says "Omakau" for years & then not write it correctly on an envelope.
Hasn't misspelt my name yet - but I'm not holding my breath...
Mr Laura doesn't fit into any category I know. Thankfully, it wasn't his spelling I married him for.
So maybe (amidst the couldn't-give-a-damn-cos-I'm-in-a-hurry spellers), there are some people who really can't spell & never will be able to?.
Let's not pick on them for that, eh? Their info is what counts.

Meanwhile, Winston -
Yes, there should be tolerance for those with reasons.
Yes, it's irritating from those who should know better.
And, as for leading by example - keep up the good work.

Terry Porritt
10-11-2004, 07:57 AM
It is now time for a tune....Happy Days Are Here Again (http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/selvin/happydaysarehereagain.ram). :)

{Ben Selvin, 1930}

10-11-2004, 08:28 PM
Hi guys - for those who haven't seen it before ....

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod
aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was
rdgnieg The phaonmneal pweor of
the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to a
rscheearch at Cmabrigde
Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in
waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod
are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is
taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in
the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
taotl mses and you can sitll raed it
wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is
bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not
raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the
wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?
yaeh and I awlyas thought
slpeling was ipmorantt !.!.!

10-11-2004, 08:50 PM
now thats a mission to read!

Terry Porritt
10-11-2004, 08:59 PM
I had that sent to me a while ago. It does work, amazingly, but having correct grammar and sentence construction helps a lot.

Whilst we are on spelling here is The Spell of The Blues (http://www.redhotjazz.com/Songs/dorseybros/thespelloftheblues.ram), the Dorsey brothers, 1929.

Murray P
10-11-2004, 09:12 PM
Yes seen that one Wal, gets you thinking doesn't it, like cutting the bottom half of the words off, you can still read it (as long as spelling and grammar are ok).

The critical thing, as has already been said, is to have some punctuation and the first and last letters in the correct spot, but also to have all the letters that belong in the word there somwhere. Leave some letters out or replace them letters with some that don't belong and it gets a much harder to read.

Murray P

Graham L
11-11-2004, 01:05 PM
But it's a hell of a lot easier to read if it is (a) spelled correctly, (b) punctuated correctly, and (c) grammatical.

You write with ease, to show your breeding,
But easy writing's curs'd hard reading.

11-11-2004, 01:08 PM

I would love to see the logic behind such a notion.

Graham L
11-11-2004, 01:16 PM
Logic? It's not a notion, it's an illustrative aphorism. I see that it has been attributed to Alexander Pope, Sheridan and more dubiously to B. Franklin. (I favour Pope).

11-11-2004, 01:23 PM
notion:A belief or opinion,

aphorism:A tersely phrased statement of a truth or opinion

Anyhow, I would still like to see how breeding and spelling are intertwined, I'm sure it must be saturated with the political correctness and non-judgemental thinking that prevails here?

And of course have none of the elitist notions that i am so fond of seeing...

11-11-2004, 01:48 PM
Oooeerrrr Metla, your cloth cap is showing. Four legs good, two legs bad. ;)

11-11-2004, 01:56 PM
I take pride it not thinking in such a fashion as demonstrated in this thread,and as personfied in the four legs comment.

The atitudes and notions you hang off how others spell is quite sad.

Terry Porritt
11-11-2004, 02:02 PM

Quote; "Socially, one is said to have "good breeding" if one observes and exhibits the etiquette, proprieties and social mores of the society in which one lives. Also used more exclusively to denote one who comes from a family of the "correct" social class (usually a wealthy class) and exhibits the manners, education, and other characteristics appropriate to that class."

About Jane Austen from a review of Pride and Predudice:

"Though she frequently satirizes snobs, she also pokes fun at the poor breeding and misbehavior of those lower on the social scale. Nevertheless, Austen was in many ways a realist, and the England she depicts is one in which social mobility is limited and class-consciousness is strong."

So, there are those who are born to have to keep touching their forelocks, and then there are those of us who slightly nod in acceptance of that subservience shown to us :)

pulling hair out
11-11-2004, 03:01 PM
So-called "good breeding" is irrelevent nowadays, except for maybe horse racing stock. Acceptable and unacceptable behaviour is found in all levels of human society.

In my view it has been replaced by "political correctness" which is proving to be a similar pain. Only people who wish to show superiority use the "good breeding" label. [usually the nouveau riche nowadays]. If it makes them happy so be it. Life goes on.