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HadO
28-10-2004, 01:25 PM
Just a query...

I want to get ADSL connected next month but we have an alarm connected to our phone system - it is no longer monitored just connected.

Would the alarm need to be disconnected for ADSL to work properly?

I don't want to pay the big $ to get a proper splitter put in...

Ashley Matthews
28-10-2004, 01:30 PM
Well since it's connected to your phone then it is a monitored alarm, so Xtra's terms and conditions REQUIRE you to have a splitter put in.

HadO
28-10-2004, 01:34 PM
I think it would be less expensive to get it disconnected from the line and just by jack splitters for the rest of the house.

But since the alarm is no longer "phoning home" but is still connected to the phone system - does it make any difference?

Has anybody been in this boat?

godfather
28-10-2004, 01:43 PM
The problem is that the alarm dialler may absorb much of the ADSL signal, thats your only concern as I see it.

Disconnecting the alarm from the phone line would be the simplest way to go, as its no longer "monitored". That does not imply that the alarm will not try and access the line, just that its not answered.

Your problem here may be that although you own the alarm, you may not have any easy access to it in order to disconnect the phone.

POTUS
28-10-2004, 01:43 PM
How about simply disconnecting the alarm from the phone line?

HadO
28-10-2004, 01:48 PM
I've seen the split that has been done into the main line in the roof - this goes directly to the alarm box.

I think I could probably just disconnect it myself and rejoin the wires in the main line... hmm... maybe something has to be changed on the alarm before this can be done.

Better get an alarm guy out to be sure :D

drb1
28-10-2004, 01:49 PM
> How about simply disconnecting the alarm from the
> phone line?


That would be the simple answer. As long as the Alarm does not require a live line to function/set properly.

D.

metla
28-10-2004, 01:50 PM
hmmm.....i have a monitered alarm at home and at work and the don't effect the adsl speed at all,they both hum along,And they are just using the $8 filter.

Why don't you just try it,and if its crapola start saving for the full install.

HadO
28-10-2004, 01:56 PM
The alarm is no longer required to be monitored but if a splitter was put in for the alarm and then I used jack filters for the rest of the house could there be an issue with the amount of splitters being used?

We are talking about 5 splitters being used (inc. alarm) for approx 7 devices ...

metla
28-10-2004, 02:00 PM
Pretty sure telecom recommend the full install when running that amount of devices,do they have any guidelines on their site?

Murray P
28-10-2004, 02:16 PM
> The alarm is no longer required to be monitored but
> if a splitter was put in for the alarm and then I
> used jack filters for the rest of the house could
> there be an issue with the amount of splitters being
> used?

While your up there putting the spliter on the alarm, why not bung it on the telecom line and get yourself a "full install". If I remember correctly a few PF1 members have done this using slightly modified filters as per the ones you get at DSE.

Cheers Murray P

HadO
28-10-2004, 02:35 PM
Is it just me or does the $248 full install fee seem completely unreasonable?!

I assume it just entails putting a big splitter on the main line and using the existing wires around the house for voice and using a seperate wire and jackpoint for data.

Surely there must be some telephony guys around that can do it cheaper than a Telecom contractor...

I guess it's who you know huh...

godfather
28-10-2004, 02:41 PM
$248 may - or may not be exhorbitant.

In some houses it would be too little, in others too much. It all depends on the wiring and the construction of the house. Getting an extra circuit from the filter at the ETP to the computer location is sometimes an all-day job, sometimes half an hour.

I was able to use one $20 splitter to filter the whole house, but I wired it for that possibility originally. Its not that easy in many houses.

metla
28-10-2004, 02:43 PM
GF,if i chuck ya 50 can you come do my house?????:D

Graham L
28-10-2004, 02:43 PM
From what I have seen the "splitter" is a dual choke on the line/ADSL side, with a capacitor across the connector on the "phone" side. "Filters" are the same internally, but they don't have a third (ADSL) connector parralleled with the "line" input".

Surely all that is necessary is one splitter, with its "ADSL" output connected straight to the ADSL "modem" (or to a wall socket), and the "phone" output connected to the "phone" wiring going to the rest of the sockets.

HadO
28-10-2004, 02:46 PM
It would probably be easy enough to do myself but I have had bad experiences with phone systems when I was younger - shocks and all :D and I don't really want to create a larger bill :D

godfather
28-10-2004, 03:09 PM
> GF,if i chuck ya 50 can you come do my house?????:D


Sorry metla - I don't do that for a living! - but, 50 what?

50 kilo of whitebait? Now thats tempting ...

What Graham L suggests is the way its done with a single filter, but it depends on how the house was wired. Its not always that easy.

There is no reason why you have to get a Telecom installer to do it, you own the wiring, get who you like. But if its not done correctly and causes phone problems, don't expect any wiring maintenance fee that you pay Telecom to cover the repair if it's not done according to good industry practice.

HadO
28-10-2004, 03:15 PM
If I go with xtra they take $99 off the wiring fee = $149.

I was trying to avoid them because of the 12 month contract and I can get the same deal for $10 less with my current ISP with no terms or early disconnection fees...

Oh well - so be it.

Thanks for the info anyway guys. :D

Pheonix
28-10-2004, 04:37 PM
Ignore the Alarm, they use a clean set of contacts to changeover the line from ther phones to the alarm dialler.

So it will not influence the ADSL at all. With the provision that it doesn't dial up anymore.This is due to the fact that they "clock-in" every 24Hrs with the monitoring company. So the only thing that will happen the, is that you lose the ADSL line and it will have to re-sync up after the alarm dialler has checked in.
If the dialler has been disabled by the Alarm company, then you have nothing to worry about.

Big John
28-10-2004, 05:34 PM
> We are talking about 5 splitters being used (inc.
> alarm) for approx 7 devices ...

I don't think you quite understand what they do. They split the line once at the incoming junction. One goes for your ADSL line and the other for your phone line. That is one splitter and one only. You may have multiple connections on the line but they all dont have to be split.

HadO
28-10-2004, 05:51 PM
I do understand what they do but in hindsight used the wrong word.

I meant instead of getting the Telecom guy to put in one splitter - use 4 "filters" for the jackpoints.

godfather
28-10-2004, 07:19 PM
The filter option will work fine, providing you are not in a fringe area and using an internal PCI ADSL modem. In that case the full install would be preferable.

4 filters should be OK, if that was the question.

HadO
28-10-2004, 08:10 PM
I will be using a Dynalink RTA300 (I think thats the model) 4 port ADSL switching router with NAT and Firewall - providing 2 PCs via Ethernet.

Big John
28-10-2004, 08:53 PM
> The filter option will work fine, providing you are
> not in a fringe area and using an internal PCI ADSL
> modem. In that case the full install would be
> preferable.
>
> 4 filters should be OK, if that was the question.

Also if you are using cordless phones you may find interference with any that are plugged into the line even with the filters.
I have tried three different brands and they all get noise on them when plugged into the line that has been JetStream enabled (with filters) but are fine on the line without Jetstream.

HadO
28-10-2004, 09:51 PM
Hmm... that's a concern as we have two - they are digital though.

Are the cordless phones you mention analog or digital?

KatiMike
28-10-2004, 11:01 PM
Hi HadO , we're in a "fringe " area wrt dsl , and live in an old farm house that's been modified heaps and has some old wiring [ and a hot water cylinder ] dating back to 1963 - we also have a monitored alarm which we wanted to keep active , and 2 analog [sp] cordless phones - so we elected to pay for the full install - a bloody nice bloke came [ apparently a Telecon {not sp} contractor] , sorted out what speed we could get i.e. was it 256k or better , had a cup of tea , used a f@#king big drill to bore thru parts of the roof beams, cleared out the 3 dead rats he found , connected a splitter , put the wire behind some kind of square plastic white stuff so the wife wouldn't object , had a cup of tea and a yack about the future of broadband in NZ - and argued about Ford vs Holden , had a smoke while I sorted out the router , waddled off down to the local exchange to make sure all was well , rang me on his cell phone and gave me his number in case there were problems ... and all is well , and this was so I could get Orcon broadband connected !!! The analog phones are fine and I'm getting the 256 I'd hoped for despite living 6km for the [ oldish exchange]
Of course I'm no tech and indeed I'm a noob to all things 'puter , however IMHO the $$$ spent on a full install we're well spent

...and it didn't cost me a single Whitebait ... :)

HadO
28-10-2004, 11:10 PM
KatiMike - thanks for the input.

I think I'll see how it goes before slapping some hard cash down...

Worst case scenario with trying the home job - I would have wasted $20 and possibly have a week or two without net access.

KatiMike
28-10-2004, 11:13 PM
...but who will clean out the dead rats ??? :)

Kame
28-10-2004, 11:59 PM
I thought I may as well add my input as it's quite easy to do it yourself. Although not recommended as you don't own the phone lines and any damages caused you'll be footing the bill.

You can just do it in reverse, How to get standard phone on 2nd jackpoint, this is usually where the line is connected to the master jackpoint in series.

It's quite easy if you've got two jackpoints already in the house both running on the same line (master and slave) and you want that other jackpoint to become plain phone connection, while the master becomes ADSL connection, The master in line usually contains more wires than the others, usually the other jackpoint has either 4 or only 2 wires.

You'll need a phone cable that has the large plastic male connector, we cut it so that we have enough wire to work with, 10cm or more to be safe, we require 2 wire joiners, else we can solder two wires together or somehow find a way, I prefer the joiners as no need to strip the sheathing off the copper wires.

OK, the tricky part is getting the wires, we need to know which is the other 2nd jackpoint wires, usually opening up the 2nd jackpoint reveals the wire colours, and hopefully it's not the same colours as I had found looking at the master jackpoint, basically I disconnected the wires and tested if I had a dial tone.

Plug the filter into the jackpoint, plug the large male connector into the filter, join the second phone jacks wires with the wire from the connector and thus enabling a normal phone connection.

There's many variations to how to do this and how to save you money by DIY telephone wiring kits, and more complex ways, but I wanted to keep it short.


Kame

metla
29-10-2004, 12:06 AM
Can you run though that again?

Maybe with pictures,cue cards and hand gestures.....

Big John
29-10-2004, 09:13 AM
> Hmm... that's a concern as we have two - they are
> digital though.
>
> Are the cordless phones you mention analog or
> digital?

Digital in the 2.4Ghz range. If they are not in this range you should be okay.

godfather
29-10-2004, 09:28 AM
I have no problems with 2.4 GHz (Panasonic) or 900 MHz (Doro) digital cordless phones and ADSL.

Billy T
29-10-2004, 09:40 AM
This Thread (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=50317&message=302533&q=splitter#302533) contains a blow by blow explanation of how to wire your own splitter into your phone system and save $175 over the cost of Telecom installation. depending on your skills it can involves buying a tool that you will only use once, but the "do it once and do it right" mantra applies.

Have a read then give it a try, it is pretty straightforward so long as you remember you want a straight-through line to your dedicated adsl outlet, and everything else gets fed through the splitter/filter.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

heni72847
29-10-2004, 09:47 AM
i think you should check your alarm if you can and see how it tests your phone line
mine tests it every nite around midnite

i opened the alarm security box...alarm went off..disabled it..
i took a look inside and noticed the phone line was connected in series into the alarm system, instead of parallel like normal phones
so when ever it does a check, it can disconnect any telephone activity, then it connects and test for line and stuff
this would've caused my adsl modem to disconnect every nite
i've heard that some only check phone line when alarm goes off or something

with all this in mind, adding filter to alarm or disconnecting it woundn't work
you don't wanna make your alarm go crazy when it notice that the phone line isn't there anymore...
and also due to the way the alarm is connected, i think if i filtered the alarm, the whole house will end up getting filtered, leaving me no place to plug in my adsl modem



anway
at the end i did end up calling for a telecom guy to come and install the filter
wasn't worth the money i reckon
but i don't want to screw my phone line up and stuff so.. yea..