PDA

View Full Version : Woosh is evil



Will Hunt
26-10-2004, 03:11 AM
Got this in the inbox today:

To improve the performance for the vast majority of our customers, we are implementing a speed limiting change for excessive usage of the Woosh network on Woosh Everyday plans. Where previously we have had to charge customers for excessive use, in implementing this change we have taken on board feedback from our customers who have told us that they would rather have the speed of their connection limited for excessive usage rather than be charged excess usage charges.

From the 2nd November, 2004 we will be limiting the speed on all customers’ accounts that exceed 15GB of use in a 30 day period. The customer’s connection will be limited to the equivalent of dial-up speed until the end of their 30 day period of excessive use. All customers that have had their speed limited will be contacted and asked to look at their level of usage or continue to have their speed limited. The change in excessive use is going to see significant performance improvement for every Woosh customer on the network.

We are zealous about protecting the performance experience of our customers and are happy to work with you to match the best plan to your specific needs.

Regards
Woosh Customer Services Helpdesk

Will Hunt
26-10-2004, 03:12 AM
My letter:

I am extremely disappointed by this decision, as it means that i will need to organize changing my internet service.

I am only a moderate user, and i only use about 20gb's a month. I have been disappointed by your service, as i have had numerous problems with connections, the high pings make gaming impossible, and surfing the web is akin to using dial up. I find it near impossible to update my website, due to the poor quality of your connection screwing with my uploads.

Everything i could do on the internet today, is throttled by Woosh's terrible performance. The only thing you can do is download stuff and now you are putting a limit on that. Well what's the point in even staying with Woosh?

I've had Woosh since January 2004, and have not been that impressed by the service. The mobility is rather useless, as i prefer to use my computer & laptop at home. Recently, when traveling around New Zealand with my laptop, i did not bother to take my Woosh modem with me, because it is only available in 4 places. Also see above my comments of your poor connection.

The reason i signed up with your service was for several reasons:
1) I didn't want a phone line (with the extra cost), and for 'high speed' service, when compared to other companies including telecom's line charges, it was the most economical.

2) While i was aware of the reasonable use clause, it was indicated to me that this applied to those who completely abused the service up to 40-60gb.

3) This was one of the best options for 'high speed' internet available. Unfortunately your connection rarely meets the advertised speed.

I would make a *VERY* strong suggestion that if you are going to enforce a speed cap on your users, then you make national traffic unlimited. about 70% of my usage is National. I get faster downloads and by doing so, i pass the benefit on to you, through reduced cost of national bandwidth, verses Inter nation data charges.

Sincerely,
Your betrayed (possibly soon to be ex) customer

William Stewart

barmypom
26-10-2004, 07:04 AM
Sounds like Woosh are disappointing.
Nicely written letter. Any reply yet?
Tell them you'll swap to Wired Country unless they pull their act together.

Will Hunt
26-10-2004, 03:29 PM
No reply yet, i'm rather doubtful as to if i'll even get one.

I would love to switch to Wired country, but unfortunatly i'm in Invercargill.

My only other option is DSL, and that would cost me at least $40 more per month :(

Telecom Must Die

POTUS
26-10-2004, 03:42 PM
> I am only a moderate user, and i only use about 20gb's a month.

How is 20gb a month moderate? Speed and traffic caps are a direct result of people hogging flat rate plans. It's similar to Telecom having to limit texting. The majority of people use such services in moderation, but some abuse the system so everone else has to pay.

It needs to be said: 20gb per month is not moderate any more that 1000 texts per month is moderate, Perhaps you should be paying business rates for such high volume?

stu120404
26-10-2004, 03:50 PM
> My only other option is DSL, and that would cost me
> at least $40 more per month :(

Not any more Thanks to UBS = Unbundled Bitstream service ;) which means bye bye Telecom fees :) (Do a search for Press F1 for UBS etc.. for more info.)

Pete O\'Neil
26-10-2004, 03:52 PM
20gb is definatly only moderate, i know many many people who use far more than that, taking into account that woosh is a 256k plan which means in theory you can download around 80gb a month if you max out the connection 24/7. If Woosh or any other ISPs dont want users downloading 24/7 then they shouldnt have unlimited options.

SKT174
26-10-2004, 04:16 PM
20GB is hardly anything these days. Remember that 20GB includes both upload and download traffic. 1GB download a day is already 30GB download traffice, not including upload traffic.

I agreed that they shouldn't call it unlimited plan if they weren't prepare people to download.

DangerousDave
26-10-2004, 04:20 PM
> I am only a moderate user, and i only use about
> 20gb's a month.

20gb is not reasonable, I mean common, what the hell are you doing to use up 20g - downloading every linux distro there is?

> have been disappointed by your
> service, as i have had numerous problems with
> connections, the high pings make gaming impossible,

Woosh openly admits that its is not a good service for gaming. It's obvious when you think of how the system actually works.

Don't use the word 'screwed' either, it decreases the validity of your argument 100%



>
> 2) While i was aware of the reasonable use clause, it
> was indicated to me that this applied to those who
> completely abused the service up to 40-60gb.
Did someone at Woosh actually say this? By the way you say 'indicated' it implies so.


> Sincerely, Your betrayed (possibly soon to be ex) customer
Be nice to people and they'll be nice back. You rub their backs up the wrong way and their not going to help.


Although I can see you're angry, your argument has some fatal flaws which significantly decrease the impact of the letter. Perhaps you should do the age of trick of letting the letter sit for 24 hours and then reviewing it on a clean mind? If I was a salesperson at Woosh i'd just see an angry customer and not really care as it appears unreasonable. Be nice and they'll be more understanding, being reasonable also helps. The people at Woosh probably like to be treated nicely sometimes too.

- David

metla
26-10-2004, 04:28 PM
20gb is nothing compared to unlimited,that is how the account is advertised,promoted and sold, Thats what gets the client signed up and that is what they should provide,i don't need to look up the dictionary to know that there will only be one definition,and it won't be within a country mile of how whoosh are putting it.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if he used 5gb,50gb or 100gb,Unlimited is unlimited.Would it be different if whoosh decided that unlimited actually meant 5gb?

What a load of garbage,Whoosh have quite quickly gotten a bad name,and it looks like for good reason.

Big John
26-10-2004, 04:37 PM
> > My only other option is DSL, and that would cost
> me
> > at least $40 more per month :(
>
> Not any more Thanks to UBS = Unbundled Bitstream
> service ;) which means bye bye Telecom fees :) (Do a
> search for Press F1 for UBS etc.. for more info.)

But true UBS will not exist for a further 12 months and is why Telecom are offering it's 2Gb/192Kb plans to other ISP users as well. In 12 months they will cut that off and you will need to go with Xtra or to UBS through your ISP.
For now you can still pay Telecom and your ISP like I will be doing. $10 monre per month for a speed increase from 128/128Kb to 2Gb/192Kb for $79.95 per month total. I can live with that and it wont break the bank.

Still too many expect to get everything for little or no cost at all. They obviously dont live in the real world where returns to shareholders is what drives prices up and competition acts against that and somewhere in the middle is the balance and this is what you have to pay.

The other option is if you dont like the service then stop using it. Very simple.

POTUS
26-10-2004, 04:44 PM
> unlimited,that is how the account is advertised,promoted and sold

While I agree with that, we also need to consider the abuse of the service. There are many parallels in other areas. Imagine the place that advertises "all you can eat pasta for $10". People come and eat their full and go home happy. One day a greedy guts comes in and eats 10 or 20 times the normal amount so the owner withdraws the offer. What happened there? One hog ruins it for everbody else.

While I agree that it may not seem 'fair' to have the terms changed, I'm quite sure that it is within the agreement between the company and the customer.

It may well be common for a particular type of person to download many gb's per month, but it's obviously clogging the system for Whoosh to have to take action. As I said, the same thing happened with Telecom and their testing service, a small percentage of people stuffed it up for everone else.

metla
26-10-2004, 04:54 PM
They are the ones who decided to advertise and sell unlimited,the customer is just using the account as it was promoted...There is only one dishonest party,and one party abusing their rights....And its whoosh.

If they want to sell a 15gb plan then they should do so,if they sell an unlimited account then thats what it should be.

False advertising,Bullying tactics,They should be ashamed,not defended.

If you want to compare it to food,its like selling an all you can eat,then after the client has finished the soup telling him thats enough,anymore is abuse and they will be charged accordingly.

Graham L
26-10-2004, 04:56 PM
It is actually sold as "Unlimited, subject to reasonable use". That's clear to me. They have an FAQ explaining it for those who don't find it clear.

I note that they have a business plan which provides 20GB/month (with speed of 500 kbps), for $999/month. I'd say that indicates what it's worth. ;-)

Bandwidth costs money. A more sensible charging regime would charge per MB. That way, those who "need" huge amounts of bytes can pay for them, and not be heavily subsidised by reasonable users. I suspect there would be a sudden decrease in the number who"need" huge amounts.
:D

SKT174
26-10-2004, 05:07 PM
>>One day a greedy guts comes in and eats 10 or 20 times the normal >>amount so the owner withdraws the offer.

If the owner withdraws the offer because of one customer, then so be it, the owner has made a decision. The owner will drive other customers away, whether it's worth it, it's the owner's decision. Customer on the other hand will just search a better place.

Back to the broadband ...

If the owner withdraws unlimited plan, then users will go and find one that have unlimited plan. If the ISP can't offer true unlimited and think 20GB is too much, then why don't they just offer 20GB plan then?

It's just greed.

Baldy
26-10-2004, 05:08 PM
>
> What a load of garbage,Whoosh have quite quickly
> gotten a bad name,and it looks like for good reason.

BOLLOX! They have got a very good name. One or two people complaining on PressF1 isn't exactly universal condemnation

Graham L
26-10-2004, 05:12 PM
No ISP will provide an unlimited plan. They can't afford to. They would get all the greedy users (great :D) and either go bust, slap limits on, or start charging what it costs.

Inifinite numbers of bytes cost infinite numbers of dollars.

SKT174
26-10-2004, 05:12 PM
>>they have a business plan which provides 20GB/month (with speed of 500 >>kbps), for $999/month. I'd say that indicates what it's worth.

$999 ... for 500 kbps with 20GB cap ... that's insane ... My current plans is 2000 kbps with no cap, my montly usage should be around 50GB - 60GB and I pay only $120...

SKT174
26-10-2004, 05:14 PM
>> No ISP will provide an unlimited plan. They can't afford to.

Then how can other countries capable of doing it? ?:|

Megaman
26-10-2004, 05:22 PM
> >> No ISP will provide an unlimited plan. They can't
> afford to.
>
> Then how can other countries capable of doing it?
> ?:|
>


Because they don't have companies like telecom controlling all the telephone lines, and there is plenty of competition

SKT174
26-10-2004, 05:27 PM
>
> >
> > What a load of garbage,Whoosh have quite quickly
> > gotten a bad name,and it looks like for good
> reason.
>
> BOLLOX! They have got a very good name. One or two
> people complaining on PressF1 isn't exactly universal
> condemnation


Just type "woosh nz" into google and you'll see ...

godfather
26-10-2004, 05:33 PM
> Then how can other countries capable of doing it?

Get out your atlas and check just where in the world we are, and how few people the costs are able to be spread across. Most data downloaded does not originate on NZ servers.

The cost of a 155 Mb data link from here to the US is $16,600,000 ($16.6 million NZ$) for a 15 year period if it was purchased early at a discounted rate. Otherwise it could be higher.

Its $5,200,000 for a 155 Mb link to Australia under the same conditions.

If we were in the US or Europe, the costs would be much less, as most data would be local and there are many more that can give diversity of usage and share the costs.

The high usage by the relatively few customers does indeed spoil it for everyone, as has been well pointed out above.

Graham L
26-10-2004, 05:35 PM
Look at a map of the world. Compare the population of NZ with that of Europe, or North America.

It costs a lot of money to put cables under the sea. It costs a lot of money to put satellites up, and a lot of money to use them. NZ is at the far end of everything. It costs.

It costs a lot of money to put cables under roads. That determines the base price of wired connections.


Woosh is using a radio transmission system. That's a shared medium. A few heavy users will quickly mop up the available bandwidth.That business plan I mentioned would probably require adding dedicated cell units to service it; thus it's expensive by "wired" standards.

But comparing prices and deals in NZ and the rest of the world is just useless. We are subject to the "economics" of the real world. The "new"economics don't apply. They never have.

george12
26-10-2004, 05:59 PM
> My current plans is 2000 kbps with no cap, my montly usage should be around 50GB - 60GB and I pay only $120

What plan? What ISP?

George

metla
26-10-2004, 06:09 PM
> > What a load of garbage,Whoosh have quite quickly
> > gotten a bad name,and it looks like for good
> reason.
>
> BOLLOX! They have got a very good name. One or two
> people complaining on PressF1 isn't exactly universal
> condemnation



Thanks for that Baldy, My world however consists of a much wider scope then pressf1.

metla
26-10-2004, 06:13 PM
Its not the high usage that ruins it,its the practices of companies offering a service to get customers signed up knowing full well they have no intention of providing what the customer signed up for.

Personally i have no issue with 15gb caps,but i do have an issue with an unlimited account that is anything but.

Prescott
26-10-2004, 06:31 PM
and to think i was looking to get whoosh when it comes to southland and becomes a tad cheaper, not any more after what i just read,
thats a load of bs
*shakes head in disgust*

POTUS
26-10-2004, 06:46 PM
> BOLLOX!

Let's keep it clean, eh? There's really no need to that sort of language, is there?

POTUS
26-10-2004, 06:49 PM
Did you read what Graham L wrote:

>"Unlimited, subject to reasonable use".

I would say that most people wouldn't consider 20gb per month reasonable. Personally I can't think of any reason what a home user could legally want to download that much.

barmypom
26-10-2004, 06:56 PM
>
> While I agree with that, we also need to consider the
> abuse of the service. There are many parallels in
> other areas. Imagine the place that advertises "all
> you can eat pasta for $10". People come and eat their
> full and go home happy. One day a greedy guts comes
> in and eats 10 or 20 times the normal amount so the
> owner withdraws the offer. What happened there? One
> hog ruins it for everbody else.
>
> While I agree that it may not seem 'fair' to have the
> terms changed, I'm quite sure that it is within the
> agreement between the company and the customer.
>
> It may well be common for a particular type of person
> to download many gb's per month, but it's obviously
> clogging the system for Whoosh to have to take
> action. As I said, the same thing happened with
> Telecom and their testing service, a small percentage
> of people stuffed it up for everone else.


For Gordon Bennet's sake, POTUS - when you pay for a service that is unlimited, how can simply using it ever be abusing it? Woosh should have thought about this before they advertised their offers. Same goes for Telescum and the texting debacle.

20GB is not alot of data these days, especially on a bittorrent network when you are uploading alot. The internet has moved beyond simple email and basic webpages. It might be alot for you - but just because one chooses to participate in bandwith hungry pastimes, doesn't mean they are greedy.

The bottom line is that Woosh are targeting a small market, and that obviously doesnt include heavy downloaders and gamers. Their current equipment just doesn't allow it. Their poor marketing has meant they have signed up alot of customers who are now disappointed and will probably never return, only now to spout alot of negative publicity about them. That's their own fault.
For the sake of broadband in NZ, I do hope they improve and move to take a bigger market share. It might just give Telecon something to think about. But not for along time to come I'm afraid.

POTUS
26-10-2004, 07:29 PM
Sorry barmypom, I couldn't find Gordons' post. But as Graham L said it was sold:
> "Unlimited, subject to reasonable use"
The word "unreasonable" is a bit prickly, but as the owner of the service they're the ones who get to decide what "unreasonable" means, personally I agree that 20gb per month is unusal. As usual we all get to vote with our wallets.

I also think that the pig who ate all the pasta spoiled it for everone else.

DangerousDave
26-10-2004, 07:53 PM
I would really want to know what people download 20g of... if its illegal stuff well then those people shouldn't really have any say at all.

- David

metla
26-10-2004, 08:02 PM
Try streaming radio,or consider the amount of traffic keen photographers generate,online gaming,all the legal downloads at megagames.com or gamershell.com,or programs at download.com,plus all the media rich websites that have streaming video and audio,Linix downloads, or swapping home video,windows updates,game patches and mods....

Hardly leaves any time to download that 10 pack of Pantera albums....

Prescott
26-10-2004, 08:08 PM
my download folder was over 2gb, and that was on 56k and that took me like 3 months or so, it had legal software,patches and a few demos

SKT174
26-10-2004, 08:32 PM
> I would really want to know what people download 20g
> of... if its illegal stuff well then those people
> shouldn't really have any say at all.

Streaming video/radio online so one can watch tv programs and listen to live broadcast from other countries. Video conferencing with friends and relatives. With digital camera having higher and higher pixels, a photo with good quality can be around 10MB to 20MB uncompressed.

So .. what is 20GB these days? You can't even buy a 20GB hdd now.

SKT174
26-10-2004, 08:33 PM
I'm with Wiredcountry.

SKT174
26-10-2004, 08:35 PM
I'm sorry .. I forgot to quote ... The above post was for George "I'm with Wired country"

barmypom
26-10-2004, 08:36 PM
>
> I also think that the pig who ate all the pasta
> spoiled it for everone else.

And I agree with you. But you know what people are like and the owner of the pasta shop should have been prepared. Now, instead, it's him (or in this case Woosh) taking the flak and alot of customers disapointed and wondering what they've done wrong.
They need to be a bit more specific than 'subject to reasonable use'. It's not a hard ask. Telecom manage to do it ok by specifically stating the cap (and if they can do it, I'm sure anyone else can).

Baldy
26-10-2004, 08:38 PM
Oh dear I apologise for the use of the word BOLLOX. Didn't realise how indescribably obscene it was - compared to random use of the F word in several posts lately

Dear oh dear oh dear!

barmypom
26-10-2004, 08:40 PM
Maybe it was just your bad spelling. I mean, if you're going to swear, at least say it properly.

Milso
26-10-2004, 08:41 PM
They advertise $55 a month for unlimited broadband internet at 250k speed. If it isn't really unlimited but only a 15Gb limit, then they should say that and stop using the term unlimited. It's false advertising, plain and simple. You can't use 'unlimited' and 'reasonable use' in the same sentence, that's just contradictory and lying to your customers. Which is it really? Is it unlimited? Or is it 15Gb? Godfather and Graham L, I don't care much for people who think this is good business practice. Go work for Woosh's marketing department or something.

Now onto the actual speed of the network. I don't know how many of you here have actually used Woosh but it's equivalent to dialup speed. The only thing that does work at 250k is when you are downloading files. It certainly does not work at this speed for browsing websites, uploading to your personal website (FTP), playing any games, watching streaming media etc.

Because of the high latency this means your web browsing is slower than a dialup connection. Lets say you are visiting a site, you send a request off to the website for the data, this takes 500ms+ on average. Now if the website has images/data hosted on a different server (to balance the load perhaps), then you are now sending maybe 5+ requests at 500ms to each of these servers. Double that delay for the page to actually start getting to you, so you end up waiting 5-10secs before the website even begins to load. To make it even worse, because it's using half the connection speed to get all these other images/data which are hosted elsewhere, the actual page only downloads at about 10kB/s average not 32kB/s.

Don't get me started on FTP, you can not upload a file basically. Well you can after the FTP program has made 7 retries and constantly gets cut off (this is on a pathetically sized file like 25kB). Gaming, streaming media and any latency sensitive applications are a no go, you get cut off. Try playing some 128k streaming music which a real 250k connection would definitely handle, but Woosh will buffer the music, play for 10secs, cut out, buffer the music for 20secs, play for 10secs, cut out again etc. This is not broadband.

To sum up, the only thing that works on Woosh at the rated 250k speed is downloading files. It's that simple. Now they want to put a 15Gb limit on the amount you can download, then throttle you down to 64k, which in Woosh terms would equate to a 9600 baud modem.

This is not unlimited broadband internet and not worth what I paid for the equipment to use Woosh. I paid $200 for the modem, $55 for the booster antenna, $30 for the cables and $230 for the router).

$515 for capped dialup. Scam of the year.

mister harbies
26-10-2004, 08:57 PM
Woosh provide what is called "unlimited broadband internet" until November with the terms and conditions stating that this is providing you use it reasonably.

After the plans have changed, Woosh would be dumb to keep calling it "unlimited". They won't do that, they would probably call it the Woosh 15GB Plan or some other "fancy" name.

Plus I use approximately 15GB per month, andf I sometimes think I use it too much. My friends are calling me a nerd because of the amount of time Im online.

You guys need to stop downloading those things you don't need. Use your broadband wisely.

Woosh is good.


Mister Harbies

R2x1
26-10-2004, 11:04 PM
Well, I was on Woosh for 11 months, and enjoyed it hugely - I pretty much used up the unlimited TIME, and occasionaly got up to around 10GB. The speed was a bit higher than advertised quite frequently, and occasionaly lower. Now, due to moving to an area that is not yet covered, I am a Telecom customer. It is stated as being unlimited dial-up. Hah - unlimited delay - I will be back on Woosh like a shot as soon as it becomes available here, and glad to be off this overpriced, underperforming pig of a "service" that the largest ISP provides. (If I was trying to catch all the Windows updates, I would be lucky to have enough hours in the day.)

Mind you, that's only MHO :D
R2

Will Hunt
27-10-2004, 12:49 PM
> > My only other option is DSL, and that would cost
> me
> > at least $40 more per month

>>Posted by: stu120404
> Not any more Thanks to UBS = Unbundled Bitstream
> service which means bye bye Telecom fees (Do a
> search for Press F1 for UBS etc.. for more info.)

Man i get sick of people telling me this... It costs $40 to have a telephone line from Telecom. DSL requires a land line, hence $40 extra, total of $100

>>posted by Big John
>The other option is if you dont like the service then stop using it. Very >simple.

I'll have to use the service, until i can afford to get DSL. However, as a customer, there is nothing wrong with writing a letter of complaint.

Also, there is the 'small' matter of the $250 I've invested in buying their modem.


>>Posted by: POTUS
>It needs to be said: 20gb per month is not moderate any more that >1000 texts per month is moderate, Perhaps you should be paying >business rates for such high volume?
20gb IS extremely moderate. I know people on dial up that download more then that. Most of my friends on smilier speed plans download about 50gb (at least) a month.

>>Posted by: DangerousDave
>Don't use the word 'screwed' either, it decreases the validity of your >argument 100%

'Screwed" Described exactly my point, and was more polite then the word i wanted to use. :P

>Did someone at Woosh actually say this? By the way you say 'indicated' >it implies so.

No, by saying 'Indicated', i meant that i received a psychic vision from Woosh wile i was doped up on grass.....

I rang up Woosh and asked then about the reasonable use plan. They put me through to a supervisor.
They said that it would be enforced against heavy users, or 40-60gb per month, and when i said i did about 20gb, they said it probably wouldn't
be a worry.

>> Sincerely, Your betrayed (possibly soon to be ex) customer
>Be nice to people and they'll be nice back. You rub their backs up the >wrong way and their not going to help.

I was being nice. I could have lost my temper (which would solve nothing) but instead wrote a letter voicing my complains in a polite manner. That comment isn't not being 'nice' but mealy giving evidence to my dissatisfaction.

>>POTUS
>One day a greedy guts comes in and eats 10 or 20 times the normal >amount so the owner withdraws the offer. What happened there? One >hog ruins it for everbody else.
While i resent being called a hog, i would like to point out, that 20gb is only 1.5 times the cap.

I certainly agree that someone who uses 10x or 20x the normal usage DEFIANTLY needs speaking too.

>>Posted by: godfather
>If we were in the US or Europe, the costs would be much less, as most >data would be local and there are many more that can give diversity of >usage and share the costs.

Hence, as suggested in my letter, I've suggested that Woosh give unlimited local traffic, as other ISP's do.

>> Posted by Metla
>Now onto the actual speed of the network. I don't know how many of >you here have actually used Woosh but it's equivalent to dialup speed. >The only thing that does work at 250k is when you are downloading >files. It certainly does not work at this speed for browsing websites, >uploading to your personal website (FTP), playing any games, watching >streaming media etc

This is exactly my point. I put up with Woosh for the downloads, but the low speed of browsing and impossibility of FTP uploads for my site, make me extremely annoyed that they're capping the one part of their network that works as stated.
Bravo Metla *claps

>>Posted by: POTUS
>I would say that most people wouldn't consider 20gb per month >reasonable. Personally I can't think of any reason what a home user >could legally want to download that much.
How about ANYONE that wants to use the full capacity of the internet ?
How about downloading freeware, game patches, mods, maps, free games ?
How about downloading Presidential debates, News reports and promotional videos ?

I could give you a list of 20gb's worth of stuff i could download legally.

I'm not up in arms about downloading 100gb, i just am upset that i can't Even download 20gb (with about 15gb of that being local) without getting unfairly penalized.

I'm upset that I've spent $250 of network gear for Woosh, to be delivered poor service. My download speed isn't even that fast ! I'm luckily to get 10kbp\s, i fall over in surprise if i get 20kbp\s (i can count the times that has happened one one hand)

Browsing the internet is about slightly faster then dial up. I have to wait about 2-5secs or so for every page to load. Compared to what true 256kb\s should be like, this is extremely slow.

I can't update my website or forums, because FTP keeps cutting out. I can't transfer 20mb via FTP without having to sit there and nurse it for 5hours.

This is just adding insult to injury.

Will Hunt
27-10-2004, 12:55 PM
is bollux is going to upset you, then i suggest you go somewhere you won't be offended...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/teletubbies/

POTUS
27-10-2004, 01:48 PM
If you're going to act in such a puerile way I suggest you go back to teletubbies until mummy says you can use the computer again.

I have a moral right to object to bad language

drb1
27-10-2004, 02:04 PM
>
> I can't update my website or forums, because FTP
> keeps cutting out. I can't transfer 20mb via FTP
> without having to sit there and nurse it for 5hours.
>
> This is just adding insult to injury.
>

What are you "really up" to?

You are spouting garbage?

If its taking that long to download 20mb, its your setup.

I downd load hundreds of MB in that time on the 1 GB plan.

The limits of the "unlimited" where perfectly clear to me at signup and they are not in fine print.

Every supplier has the "limited" unlimited plan you are just being selective

The Woosh promo/plan is not as bad as the Telescam deal because it has mobility, among other things.

You want a mass downloading gaming service GO PAY FOR IT.

You have Brought a middell of the road Broadband service for a middel of the road price.

TeleScam have some good "looking" deals at the moment to soak up customers before the competition can get in. This is an old worn out Telescam tactic, if customers fall for it more fool Them.

D.

metla
27-10-2004, 02:14 PM
Telecom don't have a single good looking plan.....

drb1
27-10-2004, 02:46 PM
Metla,

They look/sound good, to the innocent unknowing Telescam "Victim to be".

D.

Marlboro
27-10-2004, 03:35 PM
My Woosh connection is so unreliable with constant disconnections and slow speeds (ranging from dial up - 200k) I couldn't download 20 gig in a month if I tried. Perhaps this is part of their master plan ? :-)

drb1
27-10-2004, 03:46 PM
> My Woosh connection is so unreliable with constant
> disconnections and slow speeds (ranging from dial up
> - 200k) I couldn't download 20 gig in a month if I
> tried. Perhaps this is part of their master plan ?
> :-)

Why,

I installed min put up the expander that it didnt really need and havent touched the setup up since .

I brought an extra cable for the laptop, and just unplug the ariel and cable from the modem when I take it out.

I have never had any of these problems that are being discribed.

Am I just lucky?

Or Am I too easy to please?

I think not because Telescam Dial up was a royal rectal pain.

D.

whtafo
27-10-2004, 03:53 PM
> Just type "woosh nz" into google and you'll see ...

That's hardly a great revelation.

People aren't going to post threads saying "wow woosh is just going great, thought I'd let you all know"

Those that are unhappy whinge, those that are happy are unlikely to trumpeting it to the nation.

whtafo
27-10-2004, 03:54 PM
> Not any more Thanks to UBS = Unbundled Bitstream
> service ;) which means bye bye Telecom fees :) (Do a
> search for Press F1 for UBS etc.. for more info.)

No it doesn't, there will still be Telecom fees - just incorporated into the ISP charge. They'll still very much be paying Telecom for access to the network.

Will Hunt
27-10-2004, 04:52 PM
Bollux is not foul laugage. Kindergarten children use words stronger then this.

your objection to this is either

1) You want to pick a fight with the person who said it/ find something to critisise them about

2) You're some incredibly closeted old person who has not been into a city or any social event since 1910

Anyway, i've got better things to do, then argue with someone of your supopsed 'high moral standing'

As they say in Dunedin: Get over it.

Will Hunt
27-10-2004, 05:11 PM
>> I can't update my website or forums, because FTP
>> keeps cutting out. I can't transfer 20mb via FTP
>> without having to sit there and nurse it for 5hours.

>>Posted by: drb1
>What are you "really up" to?
>You are spouting garbage?
>If its taking that long to download 20mb, its your setup.
>I downd load hundreds of MB in that time on the 1 GB plan.

Excuse me Mr rude, but i believe you have completely missed what I've said.

1) I'm complaining about upload via ftp[
Saying that you download hundreds is completely unrelevent...
I'd better spell it out for you:
Uploading, i.e uploading to the net
FTP i.e File Transfer protocol. Woosh does not work well with FTP. i do not know why, but it doesn't.
1) I'm not

>The limits of the "unlimited" where perfectly clear to me at sign up and >they are not in fine print.

read my post:
>>While i was aware of the reasonable use clause, it was indicated to >>me that this applied to those who completely abused the service up to >>40-60gb.

And what Metla and the others are getting at is :

Saying "Unlimited" when it is actually limited to 10gb, is false advertising.
It doesn't matter how large the small print is. They have no right to use the word Unlimited when it's limited.

You can't go and say Free game and then say, but you got to give us $5 postage.

a few years ago EA did a thing where you buy one, and got another free. In smaller print it said that you had to send in $5 for postage and handling.

Someone did a class action suit against them, and won, because they'd said 'free' in their promotion, but you still had to hand over money.

Everyone, including myself, got their money back.

The next year, EA did the same thing, but this time they said
"Buy one, get another for only $5"
--------------
Moral of the story ? you can't promise something with the large print, and take it away in the small. Its illegal.

Will Hunt
27-10-2004, 05:17 PM
>>>From the fair trading act:

Many advertisements include fine print sections containing details of conditions and qualifications. However, you must not use fine print to conceal important information which would be critical to people’s decision to buy your goods or services. Fine print cannot be used to modify a claim made in the “big print” or headline.

If the overall impression given by an advertisement is misleading, information contained in fine print may not save you from prosecution for breaching the Act. If there are important conditions on a sale, or on other transactions such as finance agreements, these should be shown in a bold, clear and compelling way in the advertisement. “Special Conditions Apply” does not protect you when the conditions are inconsistent with or modify the main message.

[i]Example

A bank advertised a mortgage product on television and in the newspapers. In both cases there was fine print at the end of the advertisement which modified the offer that was represented in the body of the advertisement. The bank was convicted and fined $16,000 under the Fair Trading Act.[i]

http://www.comcom.govt.nz/acts/fairact/practices.cfm#I13

POTUS
28-10-2004, 09:31 AM
> Bollux is not foul laugage. Kindergarten children use words stronger then this.

Actually, they don't. And even if they did, this is not a kindergarten it's a public forum whose rules do not allow the use of bad language. My daughter would be sent to her room for saying less than that.

I object to the use of bad language for any reason. It may be common in your social circle, but that odesn't make it right. It show that the user doens't have any respect for the person(s) they are talking to, and that they don't have a strong grasp of english.

> your objection to this is either

> 1) You want to pick a fight with the person who said it/ find something to critisise them about

> 2) You're some incredibly closeted old person who has not been into a city or any social event since 1910

Neither is correct. We obviously mix in different social circles. Actually, the use of such language is extremely childish, it's a bit like a 4 year old who repeatedly says "poos". It sound good simply because they know it's wrong. Most of us grow out of it as we grow up, but some of us continnue to swear because we think it makes us sound macho - it doesn't, by the way.

You have the right to object to my objection - but you do not have the right to insult me. Ageism is nearly as abhorant as racism.

> Anyway, i've got better things to do, then argue with someone of your supopsed 'high moral standing'

Why did you , then?

metla
28-10-2004, 09:36 AM
Poos and wees...

Marlboro
28-10-2004, 10:01 AM
Hi,

It depends on your location, when I have my laptop at home (Eden Tce), I get the described problems with disconnections and slow speed. When I take it to work (CBD), Ponsonby Rd and other places it's a bit better.

drb1
28-10-2004, 01:02 PM
> --------------
> Moral of the story ? you can't promise something with
> the large print, and take it away in the small. Its
> illegal.
>

If there was anything in what you say. The Commerce Commission would have been sent to chastise by TELESCAM, months ago.

You remind me of the guy who insisted that there was a "command line entry" to stop smoke comeing from his PSU.

There is nothing wrong with my setup or hardware, said he. Its all the providers fault.

D.

Will Hunt
28-10-2004, 01:17 PM
>If there was anything in what you say. The Commerce Commission >would have been sent to chastise by TELESCAM, months ago.

I don't have to argue about this. Its the law. It is a fact.

Go read the Fair Trading Act.

>You remind me of the guy who insisted that there was a "command line >entry" to stop smoke comeing from his PSU.

Irrelevant.

Will Hunt
28-10-2004, 01:38 PM
Well my mother got punished by her mother for saying 'expecting' in 1959

I guess you're of the same generation

Pete O\'Neil
28-10-2004, 01:40 PM
Woosh is notoriously bad, go to any computer releated forum in NZ and you'll find threads about the poor service. There were even articles in the Hearld and PCWorld that came to the conclusion that if the service actually worked the way it was advertised it would be wonderful, but it doesnt.

Woosh made a bad choice when they chose the hardware they were going to use for their network. Woosh suffers from high latency and theres nothing that can be done about it because of their shitty(does this word offend you POTUS?) network.

There will always be users such as drb1 who find the service good, but the majority of people who use Woosh feel ripped off.

The debate as to whether you should get unlimited is an interesting one. Right from day one there has been a reasonable usage clause. My understanding was that woosh deemed reasonable usage at around 14Gb per month. In my opinion if your stupid enough to enter into a agreement without reading the fine print then you get what you deserve. All the people who are complaining about the data caps seem to be wanting to be able to sit on DC++ or bittorrent and leach 24/7, anyone who got woosh so they could leach is a fool. It would be nice if woosh changed their advertising campaign as it does seem a bit dishonest. Those people who were hoping to leach as much as possible without restriction are mugs.

POTUS
28-10-2004, 01:41 PM
You have the right to object to my objection - but you do not have the right to insult me. Ageism is nearly as abhorant as racism.

Graham L
28-10-2004, 01:42 PM
Oh dear.

Will, you are very upset, aren't you? Fine print is very definitely not "used to conceal important information" in the Woosh. Not even a lawyer would try that argument. ;-) . So your research is not very useful.


The "Unlimited" plan is shown as:
"Unlimited subject to reasonable use. Refer to FAQs for details",
and there is an easily found section in the FAQ headed "What is the definition of the 'subject to reasonable use' clause?" There's no "fine print at the end".

Obviously Woosh is not suited to you. I suspect you might not be happy with any ISP, because they are all trying to make a profit. :D Bandwidth can't be profitably sold for less than what it costs. Unlimited (infinite) amounts cost infinite amounts.

I'm looking forward to Woosh expanding their Christchurch coverage a few blocks north. With "reasonable users" (which might be an optimistic wish), their service should improve.

drb1
28-10-2004, 01:42 PM
> >If there was anything in what you say. The Commerce
> Commission >would have been sent to chastise by
> TELESCAM, months ago.
>
> I don't have to argue about this. Its the law. It is
> a fact.
>
> Go read the Fair Trading Act.

The Commerce Ccommision and Telescam obviously dont agree with you.

Much of the law is about interpretation. and balance.

The fair trading act is sitting beside me wright now, along with so many others, you need to open your mind, or perhaps the other eye.

Telescam would not allow Woosh to advertise illegally for 1 second.

D.

> >You remind me of the guy who insisted that there was
> a "command line >entry" to stop smoke comeing from
> his PSU.
>
> Irrelevant.

Very relevant. your ftp upload issues are undoubatably related to your setup, and/or the recipient setup. The service is not that slow.

If you wholly believe it is the service, get A Woosh Technician to do a physical on site Evaluation. If its their service, it will be free, if not, you pay.

D.

metla
28-10-2004, 01:48 PM
Unlimited does not equate to infinite amounts,all lines due to speed constraints have a maximum that can be transferred over a set period of time,They would have done their sums and projections.If they lose money its not from the odd heavy user (and 20g is not an extraordinary amount) but because their own business practises.(by that i mean have a crap service,not make enough money due to lack of signups due to the noted bad service,and then start stinging their exsisting customers for there own inability to bring a worthwhile product to the market)

They termed it unlimited,they deserve the backlash.

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
28-10-2004, 02:20 PM
~.. not another one!!!

Why do we always have to get this? Don't you guys get sick of it? Who cares if your not happy about their service. We're not going to be any help just because you complain. Go write a million complain letters to whoever you want to complain to. See!... you're just bringing a flame thread to the forum.

If you want someone to listen to your anger, ring the 0900 numbers. Otherwise take the case to Commerce Commission and put your money on legal fees. I can assure you you won't win.

Read the rules, if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say it.

metla
28-10-2004, 02:23 PM
Im pretty sure we are allowed to discuss isp's,service,regulations and what not SY,I can't see any flaming as yet,but i can see the silliness in someone posting a whinge post about others they percieve to be whinging.

Not trying to have a go at ya,but its best to just move along if a thread is of no interest,rather then striking out at others having a conversation that doesn't include or interest you.

That last line in your post is quite ironic.

POTUS
28-10-2004, 02:31 PM
... or someone posting a whinge post about someone posting a whinge post about others they percieve to be whinging.

SKT174
28-10-2004, 02:33 PM
>
> People aren't going to post threads saying "wow woosh
> is just going great, thought I'd let you all know"

Because the product is crap, so how to you expect people to say it's great when it's not?

> Those that are unhappy whinge, those that are happy
> are unlikely to trumpeting it to the nation.

Well if happy customers don't blow their trumpet on the nation, and there's no unhappy customers then there should be no feedbacks at all, but as someone mentioned ...

>>Woosh is notoriously bad, go to any computer releated forum in NZ and >>you'll find threads about the poor service. There were even articles in the >>Hearld and PCWorld that came to the conclusion that if the service >>actually worked the way it was advertised it would be wonderful, but it >>doesnt.

Enought said.

Pete O\'Neil
28-10-2004, 02:35 PM
Its times like these it would be nice if the forum had a poll function, it would be great to get an accurate idea of how many people feel there woosh service is poor or whether they feel its acceptable.

hint hint Bruce & Robo ;)

Murray P
28-10-2004, 02:52 PM
For those that believe that because no prosecution of a particular law has taken place therefore there has been no breech logic.

The commerce commission rarely use their powers. Usually there has to be a complaint, even then they may not even investigate any further other than acknowledging the complaint. That's ok because the chaff needs to be sorted from the wheat but, they are well known for not investigating and enforcing the law even in valid cases, it's a matter of resources and will more than legality or merit.

Cheers Murray P

flying_green_leprachaun
28-10-2004, 08:56 PM
Poll: Does Woosh deliver what it offers?

No. they offer unlimited plans. These plans are limited.


The fact that many may not be able to envisage using the theoretical maximum of a given plan is irrelevant. There are many illicit uses for that "unlimited bandwidth" But many times it has been judged that given a product that may be used for illegal purposes, does not make the product illegal. P2P, Video recorders...

I have previously posted that I have used Woosh to its theoretical maximum consistently. I am of the opinion that they should not offer a product if the people using it will not be profitable (Of course I want the company to be profitable, I want them to stay in business to provide me a service) Before I was on Woosh, I had Walker Wireless. A 256K plan that cost me $130 a month, I migrated to Woosh based on cost. I pay $40 for woosh, & they were offering the same speed & the same unlimited use.

I will now be moving to Orcon as they have an unlimited service.

I chose this based soley on the "unlimited" feature.

I have had poor service from Woosh, with inconsistent responses to my questions about unlimited. They are not offering what was advertised. (Fine or not so fine print be damned, unlimited means no limits no matter what else they say.)


That is all.

Megaman
28-10-2004, 09:32 PM
I can see where this is going. If you're that annoyed with it, don't use it.

Let's have a little look at the Xtra plans versus the Woosh plans as quoted from their site.

Woosh:
Plan............................................Mo nthly MB............................Monthly Fee
Woosh Everyday Unlimited.........Unlimited
.................................................. Subject to reasonable use.
.................................................. Refer to FAQs for details.........$54.95

See? They quite clearly say "Subject to reasonable use". If you don't find 15GB "Reasonable Use", have a look at Telecom

Xtra:
Xtra JetStream Explorer

Download Speed:*

256Kbps (up to 6 times faster than dial-up)**

Monthly
high-speed allowance:*

3GB

Total monthly charge for Telecom home line and calling customers:

$49.95

Total monthly
charge for other customers:

$59.95

There we go. You can have "Faster" 3GB or "Slower" 15GB for around the same price.

There you go. You may stop complaining about pitiful data caps now.

barmypom
28-10-2004, 09:33 PM
> If you're going to act in such a puerile way I
> suggest you go back to teletubbies until mummy says
> you can use the computer again.
>
> I have a moral right to object to bad language



You really are a potty, Potus.
Don't you dare knock the Teletubbies. They are a class act from the BBC. Many thousands of well-educated students studying hard at university have rolled out of bed early in the morning to watch this educative and informative tv programme.
Suggest you go and play with your friends (www.sesamestreet.com) until mummy says it's time for tubby-bye-bye.

drb1
28-10-2004, 09:38 PM
Megaman

Form an unusual quater, Thank you for you cost/plan comparrison.

Here is another.

Copy this thread, find and replace woosh with telecom.

Find and replace existing telecom with woosh.

Read it again. It still allmost fits.

D.

Will Hunt
30-10-2004, 08:37 AM
this is getting into a flame war, so i'd better stop replying...


just a point:

Aren't you the ageist for considering my likening your swearing objection to my grandmother, as an insult ?

POTUS
30-10-2004, 11:31 PM
> Aren't you the ageist for considering my likening your swearing objection to my grandmother, as an insult ?

What????? Who did that? I think you're getting dilussional, have you taken your pills today.

metla
30-10-2004, 11:34 PM
You do realise if you ask someone if they have taken medication you are instantly branded as satan?


lmao.

Azsen
31-10-2004, 02:44 AM
> You do realise if you ask someone if they have taken medication you are instantly branded as satan?

:^O Yep, and all sorts of personal hate websites spring up all over the place...