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robsonde
15-09-2004, 02:56 PM
what with the other thread about labour charges........


A customer ring you up and ask for you to install a modem.......

the customer liver 5 minutes drive from you.
customer has a 1 year old system, windows XP home.
the customer want a 56K PCI modem and setting up with IHUG on a basic dial up account.




what would you charge?

would you go to them? or would they have to bring it in?

how do you lay out the bill? do you charge for IHUG setup or just call it labor?

how much mark up on parts?

if you go to them do you charge extra?





lets not go in to the "whos right and whos wrong" side of this yet.

i just think it would be cool to see what other charge and why.

robsonde
15-09-2004, 02:59 PM
as for me........



I would go to them.

I would charge $45

modem $20
install of modem and IHUG setup $25
total $45


I would buy the modem for about $15

Spacemannz
15-09-2004, 03:04 PM
I wouldnt bother charging if it takes 5-10 mins. I wouldnt be that greedy lol. Over 1/2 hr - 1 hr + I would expect something.

Since I have no transport they would bring me the case, (I could use a mouse and monitor here), its easier and not as messy/hard trying somewhere to plug the case in!

Or pick me up and I go there. If they supply the parts, why charge? they brought the parts?

And something this simple, could be followed by directions over a phone.

Chilling_Silence
15-09-2004, 03:11 PM
> A customer ring you up and ask for you to install a
> modem.......
Do we sell them the modem? I usually charge $20 for an Internal 56K PCI Modem.

> the customer liver 5 minutes drive from you.
> customer has a 1 year old system, windows XP home.
> the customer want a 56K PCI modem and setting up with
> IHUG on a basic dial up account.
> what would you charge?
The minimum of 1 hours work - $55

> would you go to them? or would they have to bring it
> in?
Its a $10 callout fee
> how do you lay out the bill? do you charge for IHUG
> setup or just call it labor?
Its included in the bill as:
Labour - Modem Installation/Configuration & Dial-Up Setup

> how much mark up on parts?
We buy it for $9.50 + gst and sell it for $20 Incl

> if you go to them do you charge extra?
Yup, $10 callout if its local.
If its outside of Te Atatu Peninsula its minimum of 1 hour @ $60, plus a one-off $10 callout charge (So if Im there two hours - Its $130).

> lets not go in to the "whos right and whos wrong"
> side of this yet.
Im not claiming to be the best, just stating what I charge, so I agree with that :-)

> i just think it would be cool to see what other
> charge and why.

Indeed :-)
What about you?

Fire-and-Ice
15-09-2004, 03:14 PM
Is my math right Chill - you price would be $85 for that job?

PaulD
15-09-2004, 03:14 PM
What sort of modem are you inflicting on them for $20?

metla
15-09-2004, 03:17 PM
$40 bucks plus cost of modem,thats traveling to site,install,setting up connection.

And stopping for cream donut on the way back to shop.


Would i go to them?,sure ,if they are willing to pay for that service,if it was done in the shop it would have cost $20 plus cost of modem.

My bills are always broken down into parts and work carried out.

metla
15-09-2004, 03:19 PM
> What sort of modem are you inflicting on them for
> $20?



A $20 dollar winmodem is the same quality as an $80 winmodem,and perfectly suited to the needs of most people, External modems don't make a scrap of difference on modern machines unless the lines are poor.

Rob99
15-09-2004, 03:28 PM
Modem: $25
Labour 1 hour or less: $25
Total: $50
Done onsite anywhere within Christchurch.

Rob99
15-09-2004, 03:29 PM
I also try to markup most things by around 45%

metla
15-09-2004, 03:37 PM
i try and put the prices just below dse,Then i can call people idiots for not coming to me first.

lmao.

Thats a joke btw.

Chilling_Silence
15-09-2004, 03:44 PM
Im with Metla - We base DSE as a good Price to go by....

HDD's we dont make much off, but 80gb drives from SuperCheapPC.biz are good ATM :-)

Question:

How many repairs do you all get each week, roughly, and how much advertising do you do?

metla
15-09-2004, 03:55 PM
uh.......the joking part was about DSE pricing,i don't take what they do into consideration at all.

As to repairs a week,....every week is different,sometimes i have a huge stack of comps to look at,customers coming thru the door,net orders to take care of and the phones ringing off the hook with callouts and sometimes i go for days doing nothing but drink coffee and surf....

As for advertising,when i worked from home i spent $140 a week on Newspaper advertising.

Now im in my shop i advertise on the radio and normally advertise in the community projects if they walk in my door at the right time,ive also sponsered a number of charity events,school fundrasers and Cancer awarness thingies.

Just paid out a couple grand for a yellow pages add,and another $700 to advertise on 16000 plastic covers that slip over the front of the telephone book........


Have a pamplet drop in the works as well.







Still,i believe most of my work is word of mouth and return customers.


a happy customer is a businesses best assett.



Unless your telecom,then its who cares.WE CONTROL THE MARKET SUCKERS.

Billy T
15-09-2004, 04:21 PM
I am not working in this field and my rates do not include "labour", I simply charge per hour of site time, but if I were doing computer servicing I would charge as follows:

On-site service charge: $15 if local,

Travel time at 50% of technical services rate + km charges if further afield.

Technical services on or off site: $60 per hour in 15 minute increments
(5 minutes into the next quarter is charged as full 15) Minimum Charge 30 minutes. I could always find something extra to do, even if it was only to vacuum dust (on site) or clean the equipment (off site). Wherever possible, every item of equipment I work on gets cleaned.

Parts or Software: Cost +35%

All plus GST

There are good jobs and cheap jobs, but very few good cheap jobs


I always find room to help the needy, elderly or very young
by tailoring a price to suit their budget. I do a strictly controlled amount of pro bono (free) work for worthy causes (school kids science fair projects, charitable organisations, some schools etc). Family get free service + parts at cost on a reciprocal basis. They help me, I help them.

I'll end by quoting metla:

>Still,I believe most of my work is word of mouth and return customers.
>A happy customer is a business's best asset.

He has hit the nail right on the head!

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

PaulD
15-09-2004, 04:35 PM
Not so! If I recall correctly you got caught with a pile of really cheap ($4)modems once.

metla
15-09-2004, 04:38 PM
Yes,and after testing them and having them cause problems i swapped the lot for a Burger King meal,and the new owner was made well awere of the "issues" with the modems.

Exwesty
15-09-2004, 09:59 PM
You all overcharge!

Or could that be I undercharge?

On site. 4 hours setting up Modem and Email, installing antivirus and updating, Installing Spybot and Adaware and updating + newbie user training....

I got a fruitcake!

Damn nice it was as well.

Billy T
15-09-2004, 10:19 PM
> Or could that be I undercharge?

No way, a good fruit cake is beyond pricing in mere money.

Mrs T has just finished baking the last of five Christmas cakes. Full of fruit, steeped in French Brandy, they will now go away in a dark cool place to be savoured at leisure! The last will disappear for mid-winter Christmas 2005 then I have to wait a whole six months for the cycle to start again. :(

&.129cxmvkf88345lay^%o)@0-5--67,

Pardon me, I just drooled all over my keyboard.:O

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :D

wintertide
15-09-2004, 10:23 PM
Ok, if I was personally asked to do this kind of work in my own time outside of work hours, I would charge $25 for the modem and $20 per hour for my services. I would just include the ihug setup in the bill as 'technical services rendered'. Would take me about 1/2 hr to set up but may be more if they want me to do additional work for them.

If they lived 5 min from my home, then fine, I would walk there, but otherwise they would have to arrange a time to come and pick me up and drop me back home.

At our work we charge $50 + gst for installing and setting up modem, which is reasonable in my opinion, so how much I would charge for that kind of work in my own time would sound right to me.

tweak\'e
15-09-2004, 10:54 PM
i would charge what ever the going rate is for the modem that the cust has requested.

markup.......usually around 30% or less to match the going rate of the product.

labour....for a job like that usually $45 including gst and travel. tho it could be cheaper if the job is an easy one or paid in folding ;-)

1 year warranty as per normal.

andrew93
15-09-2004, 11:33 PM
For a minor job like this for a friend or neighbour (install minor hardware, set up dial-up account or update software etc.) I usually request a bottle of something for every 2nd visit. Usually a bourbon or a vino is enough for me. :D

george12
16-09-2004, 12:30 AM
For a neighbor/friend:
-$20 for modem

For a customer:
-$20 for modem (around 20-20% markup)
-$20 labour (assuming 30 min job)
-$5 callout (unless they're really close by or in-shop job)
-Plus $0.50 every KM travelled after 10KM

So probably $45 for that person (all prices including GST)

I get the modems from the supplier at about $11+GST

Cheers George

george12
16-09-2004, 12:37 AM
As for the bill:
(dot means some space, and also this is all on a tax invoice doc)

Parts (1x Pragmatic 56K winmodem) ............... $20.00
Callout (Under 10KM) ....................................... $5
Work done (Under 30 mins)
- Install PCI modem
- Configure IHUG connection
.................................................. ...................... $20.00

Total $45.00

Chilling_Silence
16-09-2004, 12:59 AM
My question:
Do you charge + gst or Inclusive. And why??

Rob99
16-09-2004, 01:10 AM
Even if I was GST registed my prices would always include GST, unless requested otherwise.
I feel that quoting pre GST is trying to trick people into thinking the product is cheaper than it realy is.

tweak\'e
16-09-2004, 10:28 AM
only buisnessess get prices as +gst, retail is always includeing gst.

andrew93
16-09-2004, 10:47 AM
We do both - we quote the before and after price for consumers but just the pre-GST price for businesses.

bk T
16-09-2004, 10:49 AM
What would you charge if the job is in Auckland CBD where there is no free parking available? Assuming you are 10 km away from the City.

metla
16-09-2004, 11:17 AM
hmmm.....10km away from the cbd?.....i would contunue heading south at a great rate of knots,a modem isn't a good enough reason for spending time in Auckland.

xtraka
16-09-2004, 11:25 AM
I have clients in the city - I charge them for parking - the total cost e.g. $3 for 1 hour. But man, you guys are way too cheap. I was told I was too cheap!
I would charge about $67.50 depending on area for 1 hr, incl. travel. Modem = $45. All incl. gst. I charge for my service & skill - as my lawyer & accountant advised. That's why lawyers charge $300 p.h.
You can't do it too cheap, like $10 - even kids charge more. I know a 14 yr old kid charges $40 an hr!
In any business you have to do costing - you have to pay ACC, GST, tax, running expenses, stock, car, unproductive time (non-chargable) for research etc etc etc.
Just like metla - his advertising costs a lot of money. I only spend a few $100 a yr, due to my higher income (read higher charge rate). Most clients are referrals. But cut out the $10-$20 rates, that's why some people think you are cowboys. If you advertise that, people will think you are just kids when they see someone else charge more.
I also type out jobsheets - this can take 15 min. And an invoice - another 10 min. You gotta charge more guys. Don't make it like you are desperate. There are a few who advertise in the local paper - $40 for a job, what if it takes 3 hrs? What if they live 20 min away. I work from Manukau City to Albany, no way I can't charge travel.
Do your sums if you want to be proper business people - cos that's what you are, not just tradespeople. You are out to make real money. Sorry if this is a lecture, but I'm sick of some people saying - "but the other guy only charged $20" Yeah right - where is he know? I've been doing this for nearly 10 years - paid off my mortgage in nearly 3 years - most take 10-25 yrs.
While I'm here - anyone in Ak Central want to subcontract - I'm looking for someone to do servicing pcs & monitors. Post here. Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules.

metla
16-09-2004, 11:31 AM
when looking at my rates,its best to take into consideration that im in Wanganui,not Auckland.

Current population of about 20 thousad people,and thats probally counting their dogs, cows AND chickens.

Greg S
16-09-2004, 11:49 AM
Free :)

I give all my existing customers a fair bit of tech support, physically as well as online and phone.

drb1
16-09-2004, 11:59 AM
Guys,

you install $20-00 items, we install $20,000-00 items. But you can NOT charge out $0.50 per Km, and even come close to covering cost unless its on long haul 200Km plus when you factor in a reduced Km rate (this is for small service vehicles not HMV).

CBD parking costs are/must be, a straight plussage.

Hourly rate for retail end users is difficult for non commercial IT. However even if you work from home, less than $25-00 hour, or part off for the first, is not only cutting your own throat but everbody else's.

That behaviour put the heavy transport industry in the mess its in today.

A lot of the larger software supplier/installers are $150-00 HR then by quaters after the first. They are charging travel time on top of Km's.

$20-00 buys nothing today.

D.

Chilling_Silence
16-09-2004, 12:01 PM
xtraka:
I'd be keen to get in contact with you and find out a little bit more about what your lawyers etc mentioned...

Chill [at] dimension [dot] net [dot] nz

Chilling_Silence
16-09-2004, 12:03 PM
> $20-00 buys nothing today.

Actually, if you come to see me - You'll get an Internet 56k PCI Modem ;-)

Installation extra if required..... :p

metla
16-09-2004, 12:05 PM
i could sell you 2 keyboards for $20......

Greg S
16-09-2004, 12:13 PM
> i could sell you 2 keyboards for $20......

*sigh* I remember the day I bought a 64MB sdRAM chip for $180.00 :( It was shortly after the huge fire in a factory in Taiwan, after which the world's manufacturers artificially inflated chip prices.

Greg S = mug

Chilling_Silence
16-09-2004, 12:18 PM
How much for Postage to Auckland?

drb1
16-09-2004, 12:19 PM
Guys,

Thats kind of the point, your trafficking a large volume of stock items, with such a little margin. and charge a light Hourly rate, and light Km rates.

Thus you keep your selves and your businesses financially constrained, and cash poor.

Its the way the industry has moved, you buy your modems for @$10-00, So what do they land at.

Soon as the small folk on the bottom of this equation you will see your living standards further eroded, by more red sheds and smithys. They know what they are doing with their labour practices, and they dont care about the long term effects.

metla
16-09-2004, 12:24 PM
$40 bucks an hour is better then $8 an hour digging ditches,besides,no mans skills are worth $150 an hour,not unless they are saving lives.

Granted it maybe viable situation when your talking billion dollar companies with million dollar setups,...not to many of those in Wanganui though.....

drb1
16-09-2004, 12:33 PM
Metla,

What do your Accountan and laywer charge you @HR, app?

I know what some Hton and Tauranga firms charge I am curious.

D.

metla
16-09-2004, 12:34 PM
More then what they are worth.

metla
16-09-2004, 12:55 PM
and i'll tell ya a tiny little secret that should put Wanganui into context...

My shop rent costs a total of $328 a month,thats $82 bucks a week,I seriously doubt you could get that in Hamilton or Tauranga.

And if i put my rates up to $150 i would not only be still waiting for my first job,i would be doing it while tarred,feathered,and chased out of town.


Aside from that,the prices you charge has to take into account the customers your looking to get,pricing yourself too high for the home consumer would be the deathroll for the average small business,

drb1
16-09-2004, 01:05 PM
Metla,

I understand and agree with all that, your personal charges are not unrealistic for your reigon.

We have to compete with people who have you sort of real estate overhead it is not easy.

That Particular installer has installed in your reigon at that price.

I was curious as to the level of professional fees in general, for the reigon

Spencer
16-09-2004, 01:08 PM
> no mans skills are worth $150 an
> hour,not unless they are saving lives.

You are dead right when you say you wouldn't get any work if you charged $150 per hour Metla, you have to match your market's capacity to pay for computer services, but I disagree strongly with your view on value as quoted above. Companies and individuals will pay those rates if the service offered provides that real or perceived value. I charge $150 ph "out of office", $100 ph "in office", $75 ph travel time and 75 cpk vehicle costs + parking and any other disbursements. My clients willingly pay those prices because their payback is far greater, and almost all of my work comes word of mouth from satisfied customers. I am not a lawyer, accountant or professional engineer, I am an individual with saleable tecnical skills.

Spence

Murray P
16-09-2004, 01:34 PM
Interesting discussion.

I tend to agree with the ones who place a value on their skills and knowledge that the market will stand rather than trying attract custom by being cheaper.

I have a business in a non IT technical field. I charge per hour, same in the office (where I spend most of my time) as in the field, travel time is charged per hr at the same rate unless the travel is out of town (I don't charge full rate for sitting on a plane, cough! usually), 62 per km over 20km and I dont't walk out the door or start anything for less than $500-.

Different industry but, there are people in a similar line of work that work on fixed rates or very much smaller hourly charge. They do this either, because they don't rate their own skills or simply don't have the requisite skills yet and so offer a lesser service, they want to work at high volume, they're cowboys posing as the real thing and feeding off the skill and integrity of others. All these people come a cropper sooner or later with debris left scattered in their wake, with perhaps the exception of the first group. I know this because I often get paid to sort out the mess and get the finger pointed in the right direction for cost recovery purposes.

If you have the skills, don't devalue yourself or the market, raise the bar in all respects. If enough in your industry take this approach, watch most of the cowboys squirm and fold, the expectation of their potential clients has just been raised and with it their scrutiny of them as individuals and their business.

Cheers Murray P

Spencer
16-09-2004, 01:51 PM
> (I don't charge full rate for sitting on
> a plane, cough! usually)

I agree with not charging full-whack for travel, but all time during "working hours" needs to be earning income, and while sitting in a car or plane you can't do work for anyone else. That's why I charge 50% of my site rate.

I don't think 62cpk is really enough for vehicle charges though. If you have to maintain it in good condition for professional image reasons, you need a buffer beyond normal "cost of ownership" figures to cover the cost of getting carpark door bangs, bumper scratches and various other nicks and knocks fixed. I have had three serious damage incidents to my unattended vehicle in carparks over the last 2-3 years, one so severe that the front passenger's door wouldn't open. That was a 4WD door opened with a boot behind it in my estimation, it wasn't a scrape or normal contact damage.

Spence

metla
16-09-2004, 02:04 PM
> Interesting discussion.
>
> I tend to agree with the ones who place a value on
> their skills and knowledge that the market will stand
> rather than trying attract custom by being cheaper.
>
> I have a business in a non IT technical field. I
> charge per hour, same in the office (where I spend
> most of my time) as in the field, travel time is
> charged per hr at the same rate unless the travel is
> out of town (I don't charge full rate for sitting on
> a plane, cough! usually), 62 per km over 20km and I
> dont't walk out the door or start anything for less
> than $500-.
>
> Different industry but, there are people in a similar
> line of work that work on fixed rates or very much
> smaller hourly charge. They do this either, because
> they don't rate their own skills or simply don't have
> the requisite skills yet and so offer a lesser
> service, they want to work at high volume, they're
> cowboys posing as the real thing and feeding off the
> skill and integrity of others. All these people come
> a cropper sooner or later with debris left scattered
> in their wake, with perhaps the exception of the
> first group. I know this because I often get paid to
> sort out the mess and get the finger pointed in the
> right direction for cost recovery purposes.
>
> If you have the skills, don't devalue yourself or the
> market, raise the bar in all respects. If enough in
> your industry take this approach, watch most of the
> cowboys squirm and fold, the expectation of their
> potential clients has just been raised and with it
> their scrutiny of them as individuals and their
> business.
>
> Cheers Murray P



You can't get word of mouth untill you have a stable of satisfied customers,nor-can you get customers by being the most expensive in town with no established word-of-mouth....,especially when the doors have just been opened so to speak.

How did you aproach it when you first started in your line of business?

drcspy
16-09-2004, 02:49 PM
ok firstly modem:

cost to me $28 (retail - ouch) charge $35
travel charges vary but generally within this little town $5
outta town $10-$20 depending on distance
labour $40 ph with min $30..........so bottom line for install, and internet setup here in town
half hour minimum:$30
travel $ 5
modem $35
total $70

or more likely cause when setting up the internet theres often setting up AV/firewall/antispyware, and teaching the user how to use those progams and get around the net.....say at LEAST an hours work......... so then the bill would be $80

If you are of the mind, and only a few here are but it is noticable, that one should charge only $20 per hour then I must say that fixing pc's is obviously not the only income source you have otherwise you aint been in business very long at all and you wont be staying long.........you'd be cuttin your own throat..........

I have expenses............for example about $500-600 per month in advertising..........telephone, home line and mobile.........internet (MUST HAVE),..............postage.......and also parts......now I dont always buy parts just as required in fact like any 'ready for anything' tech I NEED a stock of certain parts.......to me that's an expense i need to cover untill or unless I sell them to a customer during the course of work......and what with having to carry harddrive/ram/cpu/modem/usb cards/ etc etc etc I figured out the other day I had $650 worth of *new* parts on hand and also a lot of *2nd hand* ram, cpu's, etc etc etc.......basically I need to carry round almost a whole pc in new parts.........

now it's taken me about two years to get to the point where my business will support me and my wife and pay the bills, fortunately we already own the house so only have rates not a mortgage or rent to pay although I could now afford to do this with a little purse tightening.

This has taken me several thousand dollars of advertising and building up parts and building up customers. I get 2-3-4 new customers each week and some of these are from word of mouth so I must be doing something right !

Now if you are in the business of fixing pc's and you try to do it as a mobile tech for $20 per hour you are NOT going to make enough money to cover all your expenses and have enough to live comfortably on afterwards it's just NOT going to work that way.........its a rare day when you'll get 8 hours consistent work.........this situation may very well be different in a shop.....however I love what I do I get a lot of satisfaction out of it, and I get to cruise from job to job and can organise my day to please myself.....'sorry mrs jones I'm much too busy to attend to your problem today will tomorrow be ok?' (going fishing today lol).

Building up a business is a very slow process i remember when I first started out I was happy to get three calls in a week.......sometimes I'd only get one, (it's amazing how people still say to me 18 months after I started advertising on a regular basis in the local rag with a reasonably *visible* adver - 'oh i just saw your advert for the first time the other day'...) Anyway while you are building your business you got to eat, keep the car goin, pay the phone bills, advertise, and etc etc etc, (womens hair dye sessions are NOT cheap - even though I'm happy to pay for my wife to have them :-) ..........)

so as some of you have said..............charge what you think your skill level is worth bearing in mind the local market and DONT CHARGE TOO LITTLE just because you are only 'playing' at being a tech........you wont charge too little if you are really relying on that money as your sole income, and again you wont charge too much cause you'll lose repeat custom.......strike a balance .......what I charge suits me and I KNOW i'm providing good service from the constant referrals I get from people. I also provide a different service to that which is provided by the, (5 I think), local pc repair shops. I'm mobile....

Greg S
16-09-2004, 02:55 PM
Wow - this topic has gone OTT - I'm switching off! LOLOL

pulling hair out
16-09-2004, 02:57 PM
I can't believe the sheer arrogance and artificial self worth being promoted by some of the posters here.

A company's computer system is usually repaired by the firm that installed them in the first place, and if they've got any brains they will ensure they have a repair contract made out when the system was first installed.

The person/s in that company that arranged for whichever firm to install/repair the system is not spending his own money, but that of the company he/she works for. Company directors etc usually have little knowledge of computers and are at the mercy of those who do, or think they do. You are "fleecing" them and trying to justify your actions by talking of your value. What a joke.

Do not look down or criticise the worth of those who do not charge your over-blown rates. Money is not the only criteria in judging worth.

A job done well merits worth and respect, and will ensure more customers.
The difference in the amount you charge merely differentiates the sharks from the realists.

I don't give a damn who this offends. I, like those companies you deal with, should not have to put up with this just because we are not computer literate enough to solve our problems. If I had a company which required a complex computer system I would employ on my staff a technnician who could do the job you do and be in control of what he/she earns to keep it in good repair.

Marg.

Murray P
16-09-2004, 03:04 PM
> You can't get word of mouth untill you have a stable
> of satisfied customers,nor-can you get customers by
> being the most expensive in town with no established
> word-of-mouth....,especially when the doors have just
> been opened so to speak.
>
> How did you aproach it when you first started in your
> line of business?

Agreed, which is why the first grouping I mentioned qualified it for new entrants.

I started off just below the asking rate of my peers, but that was still well above many in the industry who have no qual's and/or can't gain entry into the right organisation(s) or choose not to.

There are much fewer qualified (and able) people in my line of business than in yours Metla although there are many who work in and around it and almost as many who claim to be experts (I don't necessarily mean qualified as in pieces of paper, although it helps it's not proof of skill, experience or applicable knowledge). Which is why I don't need to advertise as actively as you perhaps, people come to me usually in a state of frustration and desperation and this happened almost immediately on setting up the business and securing the right associations. Essentially I investigate and map out ways to remediate stuff ups (or rip offs) others have made, much like what you do when you diagnose a poorly made PC except that I don't actively fix things in a physical sense but, also add in the chance of mediation or litigation for the client, if they so wish. I also give advice before the fact, but sadly, this is a small part of my business and when given is not always taken.

As you can see, there are many similarities in the fix it business whatever the industry.

Cheers Murray P

drb1
16-09-2004, 03:07 PM
Marg,

What do you have to pay for a "good" systems Administrator, with hardware skills, and accountig experience. If you can find one. Living in any major center.

$PA?.

D.

Murray P
16-09-2004, 03:20 PM
Many valid point in you post Marg but,

> A job done well merits worth and respect, and will ensure more customers.
> The difference in the amount you charge merely differentiates the sharks
> from the realists.

Many small businesses just cannot turn over enough small jobs to make a decent living, there are not enough chargeable hours in a week. If you are worth it you should charge accordingly and your customers will be happy to pay, most times ;)

> I don't give a damn who this offends. I, like those companies you deal
> with, should not have to put up with this just because we are not
> computer literate enough to solve our problems.

No offence taken, it's not an offensive remark, to this non IT person anyway. As for the rest of the statement: That's is the very basis of most exchanges for goods and services, someone has something you want or need and visa versa.

> If I had a company which
> required a complex computer system I would employ on my staff a
> technnician who could do the job you do and be in control of what he/she
> earns to keep it in good repair.

I would expect any corporte to do as you suggest and most do but, only for basic work. The majority now outsource the big stuff and many even outsource the small stuff too. Go figure, I guess the accountants make the model work.

Cheers Murray P

pulling hair out
16-09-2004, 05:51 PM
Hi drb1

Most firms have their own accountant and have their own style of accounting program to suit that particular firm. So experience would have to be learned on the job anyway. A good knowledge of programming and hardware however is important, I agree.

The last company I working for had to have test certificates out to the clients before a specific date each month, sometimes twice a month. It was vital as it not only affected NZ clients and exporters, but also overseas buyers as well and involved a lot of money. Having their own system administrator made sure any repairs etc would be done on the spot, any time night and day. As the tests were being done on a 24hr basis there was no way they could wait for an outside Techie to get around to coming out.

My anger is more towards the attitudes of one's worth that was shown in the threads here. Fortunately a lot of people who are now starting up businesses, big and small are those who had the benefit of having computers in the schools and homes so are a lot more computer literate and therefore less likely to be stung by sharks.

I acknowledge those who have put the effort into Computer Qualifications,
etc., and the right to make a fair living from it, but to justify the exhorbitant amount they charge as showing the "value" of their services is a joke.

In doing so, they automatically devalue and insult the quality of service shown by others, who are able to run a business and keep a good standard of living from it, without crippling others financially. Even if it means they can't pay off their mortgage in 3yrs.

My hat goes off to those who do care about their customers, esp. to the one who was lucky enough to get the fruitcake. Is there any left?

Marg.

Spencer
16-09-2004, 06:03 PM
> I can't believe the sheer arrogance and artificial self worth being
> promoted by some of the posters here.

Ouch!!!!! Since Murray and I are the only two posters (that I have noticed) with $100+ per hour charge-out rates I assume you are referring to us Marg. Forgive me please if I have interpreted your post incorrectly, but let me just say that neither of us appear to work in IT or Consumer related industries, but we have both built viable businesses from scratch and maintain them mostly by word of mouth recommendations. It is an absolute given that you can't develop a successful business through sheer arrogance or artifical self-worth. You have to be selling something that your clients want, and they have to be really happy with the outcomes to actively help grow your business with recommendations.

>You are "fleecing" them and trying to justify your actions by talking of
> your value. What a joke.

In my case, I provide a quote or an estimate, depending on the circumstances, and they say "Yes please," and "how soon can you get here?" That's not fleecing, that's providing a service they are willing to buy at a price they think is good value.

> Do not look down or criticise the worth of those who do not charge
> your over-blown rates. Money is not the only criteria in judging worth.

Nobody has looked down on or criticised the worth of any poster in this thread, but we have encouraged some to charge rates that do more than just recover costs, and will sustain and build a viable business.

If someone is self-employed and not first earning a living, second making a profit and third building a saleable asset, they don't have a business, all they have is an average paid job with some side benefits of freedom from bosses and the right to choose when and where they work. And if that is exactly what they want, then more power to them. There are many happy self-employed people out there doing just that.

Spence

Earnie Moore
16-09-2004, 08:44 PM
> $20-00 buys nothing today.

I remember the good old days when you could but 2K * 8 bit memory for about $20

I must go and listen to the radio like the good days, now the TV news has gone.

Murray P
16-09-2004, 09:04 PM
Pretty well summed up there Spence.

I too can see where you are coming from Marg.

I hope I didn't give the impression that people should charge more than what is fair for the services provided. I, for example, do not charge at the top end of what my peers do nor even what I could get away with. I turn down 30-40% of the enquiry that comes my way simply because I can only take on so much. So, I could probably afford to charge more and do less by cherry picking the juicey jobs. You still have to charge appropriately for what you deliver, however.

I believe, to do what I do, you must have a strong desire to help people and have an interest in their issues to: a) actually do your job to your best ability (a fanatical desire to right wrongs is also helpful), b) make a living, c) provide a sense of worth and job satisfaction. Nothing unique in that I guess.

Maybe pride in what I do comes across as arrogence, I hope not, but if so I'll have to be more carefull of how I express myself in future.

Cheers Murray P

xtraka
16-09-2004, 10:02 PM
I did not intend to be arrogant, but offering thses guys help - they may have gone to tech for qualifications (or not), but they don't teach you about business. I have been to a few seminars regarding costing & profits etc (one of these was for accountants - I was the only one not in a suit & drinking booze). My wife is an accountant - so she tells me a lot. I have clients who are accountants & others biz people - when I can, I ask questions how they do things.
Basically if you do your sums, costing, do a cashflow forecast etc, charge more - you can do well. Computer people are well respected - just wait til they ask what you do - they'll say - "Oh really, well that's great. Have you got a card?"
That's another expense - biz cards. Have you guys got one?
I just had to buy a new mobile phone. Anyway just my $15 worth - time for typing this!! Have fun guys - this is what it's all about & make money having fun.
I'm still looking for someone to subcontract / friendly partnership (but income deriving) in Ak Central. Post here? or email ian_at_computerpro_co_nz. Cheers all.