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View Full Version : O.T Quick Laugh at Scamme.



drb1
06-09-2004, 07:38 PM
I brough a few thing from the scam site went round and picked the up ok, victimised my self on amil order so/so. Im pretty careful.

Advertised three thing (no Authenticated not lineing up for their scam).

Whent to relist a thing that didnt sell and got a message. You can not sell you are NON NATIONAL. Pay to become authenticated to sell.

So non Nationals, can still sell freely, and rip off Kiwiws, if they pay Scamme??????????????

godfather
06-09-2004, 07:59 PM
Can anybody translate that post?

Nyet
06-09-2004, 07:59 PM
Umm what? Who let you out of the cage?

drb1
06-09-2004, 08:11 PM
> Umm what? Who let you out of the cage?

I dont know but sometimes its fun out here.

That really happened, to day, to me. i am stunned.

They told me, I am not national. I have to pay ten dollars to become authenticated. to sell.

Did Manukau city declare independence over night.

Lohsing
06-09-2004, 08:15 PM
> Can anybody translate that post?

This guy has a grudge against "Trademe" ... basically he tried to sell some items but because he wasn't authenticated, he wasn't allowed to proceed with the auction.

And to answer his question, yes you can sell if you are non-national just by paying the registration fee.

Lo.

Growly
06-09-2004, 08:21 PM
Trade me?

What the hell?

Ofcourse you have to pay $10 to sell anything...

drb1
06-09-2004, 08:31 PM
> Trade me?
>
> What the hell?
>
> Ofcourse you have to pay $10 to sell anything...

No you dont.

non authenticated members may sell a maximum of 3 items at 1 time.

have been doing this for some time.

I do not have a grudge per sae against T/M.

Allthough it is the biggest legal Scam in the country at the moment.

And i find some of its operating practices questionable.

how did I become a non national over night?

Growly
06-09-2004, 08:34 PM
Meh... whatever....

I paid the $10 so i could join what is known as the "TradeMe elite", well... more so that I could actually buy the stuff i needed...

andrew93
06-09-2004, 09:02 PM
> Allthough it is the biggest legal Scam in the country
> at the moment.

Would you care to back this up with evidence?

> And i find some of its operating practices
> questionable.

And this too?

drb1
06-09-2004, 09:02 PM
> Meh... whatever....
>
> I paid the $10 so i could join what is known as the
> "TradeMe elite", well... more so that I could
> actually buy the stuff i needed...

Paying to belong to the Elite and being able to bid on the auctions run by fools who wish to alieanate many buyers, and reduce their buyer pool has its advantages.

Having to pay to sell more than 3 items at once is fair business.

The matter of having to pay just to ask a question or buy now, touches a nerve for me. This is a Wrought/Scam what ever.

That is why I wont pay. The majority of things on T/m are either given away or junk. You can sometimes pluck a gem from the give aways.

It is not a venue to sell at real prices. Most Vehicles that go to auction, go there for a Good reason (No Come back).

I found the change of my national status, as a tool to extract money amusing under the Curcumstances.

Perhaps T/m like Telecom can not Fairly be riduculed in this enviroment.

Lohsing
06-09-2004, 09:22 PM
To be perfectly honest, I think drb1 has a fair point.

I have had a bit of a run in with Trademe staff, and I have found their responses to me to be on a level of someone younger as opposed to someone slightly more mature and more aware of sound business ethics and practices.

Maybe it's just me, but changing rules ad hoc simply because it can make them more money can be handled a bit better.

Lo.

Sb0h
06-09-2004, 09:53 PM
At the end of the day they are running a business. If you don't want to pay the registration fee then don't use their site. Simple really.

Murray P
06-09-2004, 10:09 PM
Not sure if you read the previous post properly.

Good business does not arbitrarily change trading conditions, other entities may do so but you would not necessarily call them businesses even though they make a living for someone at someone else's expense. I'm not saying that this is how trademe operates just what I interpreted the previous poster to be alluding to.

If your interested have a look at Scambusters (http://www.scambusters.co.nz/index.html)


Cheers Murray P

drb1
06-09-2004, 10:22 PM
> At the end of the day they are running a business.
> If you don't want to pay the registration fee then
> don't use their site. Simple really.

Simple really, The rules say "you may advertise three items at one time without being authenticated" when some does this and resists you insesent nagging to pay to be authenticated.

You then change his nationality to stop him playing within the rules?

Do you work for microsoft? are you an underarm bowler?

As long as they are payed any Sucess fees they may be owed (none currently) why the need to change the rules, Other than to line your pocket.

Lohsing
06-09-2004, 10:30 PM
> Good business does not arbitrarily change trading
> conditions, other entities may do so but you would
> not necessarily call them businesses even though they
> make a living for someone at someone else's expense.
> I'm not saying that this is how trademe operates just
> what I interpreted the previous poster to be alluding
> to.

Bingo...

Lo.

andrew93
06-09-2004, 11:09 PM
Sorry guys but I'm with drb1 on this one. Let's see - what exactly has changed? Could it be that you are unhappy about selling pirated software (http://www.trademe.co.nz/announcement.asp) perhaps? Or is it body parts or excrement? (http://www.trademe.co.nz/STRUCTURE/HELPDOCS/DEFAULT.ASP?HELP_ID=403) Take your pick.

Pirated software was the latest change from TradeMe just a few days ago so that must be the beef. If that's not the case then PF1'ers whinging about suppliers should back up their statements with some facts (other than the fact it is not free - if you want a charity then go visit your local Sallies). IMHO "Customers" wanting freebies can take their business elsewhere ......

andrew93
06-09-2004, 11:13 PM
D'Oh!


I'm not with drb1 on this one


:)

Lohsing
07-09-2004, 12:20 AM
Hey Andrew93 - I don't think you fully appreciate the situation. While I agree that Trademe does a lot of good things, the way in which they run their business and change the rules to turn a profit could be handled better.

Their customer service leaves a lot to be desired and appears to reflect the age running the show.

Lo.

metla
07-09-2004, 12:24 AM
Maybe they are trying to reduce traffic.....

drb1
07-09-2004, 12:38 AM
> Maybe they are trying to reduce traffic.....

Dey do most definatly, be going de writ way bout dat.

metla
07-09-2004, 12:39 AM
or they could try writing in Hawian Russian.

drb1
07-09-2004, 12:46 AM
> or they could try writing in Hawian Russian.

I lined up for that .

They are definitely going the correct way about it.

Jamaican Russian.

Vince
07-09-2004, 12:54 AM
Ah, so you can spell when you want to! Vince

drb1
07-09-2004, 01:01 AM
> Ah, so you can spell when you want to! Vince

Itís very hard to get the tone, particularly the lighter humorous ones, that you sometimes wish you project.

Laura
07-09-2004, 01:13 AM
I know zilch about TradeMe - though learning fast from you guys - but I find this word "non-national" intriguing.
At first I assumed the poster meant a non-naturalised New Zealander ( I wonder why?) but discrimination in that way would be illegal, wouldn't it? Race Relations Act & all that...
So are we talking merely non-TradeMe terrain here? And if so, I guess I'd be a non-national also- like most of NewZealand outside wherever it's based.
(And no, I didn't even mention Jafas)
Enlighten me please, guys - in case I ever want to buy anything there.

R2x1
07-09-2004, 01:25 AM
LOL Laura, non-national and the RRA would be an interesting issue for some crusading.

But "Enlightenment" and "Tirade-me" in the same post ?

Or am I reading to much into this thread?

R2

Laura
07-09-2004, 01:30 AM
Yes, "Tirade" was actually more than I thought I was sending.

R2x1
07-09-2004, 01:30 AM
I am curious about this,

>>>Today we removed some categories which had little to no listings in them. We are
>>> constantly reviewing the category tree and if in future these need to be reinstated,
>>>we will do so.

Does it mean - "If trade in unlisted categories picks up we will again list them"?
An interesting thing to measure.
R2

Murray P
07-09-2004, 01:31 AM
Non National in this context means not based in NZ territory, therefore an international trader or exporter of (usually shonky) goods to NZ and sucker of money therefrom so, regarding jafa's Laura your dead right ;)

Cheers Murray P

drb1
07-09-2004, 01:43 AM
> I know zilch about TradeMe - though learning fast
> from you guys - but I find this word "non-national"
> intriguing.
> At first I assumed the poster meant a non-naturalised
>
> And if so, I guess I'd be a non-national also- like
> most of NewZealand outside wherever it's based.
> (And no, I didn't even mention Jafas)
> Enlighten me please, guys - in case I ever want to
> buy anything there.

Being net anyone can register with Trademe/Ebay from anywhere Nigeria, Somalia, Florida, there are many bad people out there.

Being a local site, everywhere else is (international on one way) non-national on T/M.

On Sunday Manukau city was part of New Zealand, today it is what ever Nation T/M have designated it to be?

T/m make a lot of hollow noise about protecting consumers. They have two consumer groups; buyers and sellers, all are their customers.

In reality T/M does what is good for T/M. Very badly.

Join oneway.co.nz. Then join openallhours.co.nz, Then join Trademe. Check the difference, it wont cost you anything.

On trade me if you wish to ask a seller a question you must first pay $10-00. the same to use the buy now feature.

On the other mentioned sites this is free.

This is a computer site if you whish this annaylisis continued please say so.

I hope this answers your questions.

Check also the Scambusters forums Scambusters.co.nz

Laura
07-09-2004, 01:56 AM
Thanks drb1
Lots of food for thought there.

drb1
07-09-2004, 02:37 AM
> Thanks drb1
> Lots of food for thought there.

Laura,

N.W.

drb1
07-09-2004, 08:25 AM
Small/large update that may intrested some,

Ever brought or sold any thing on Trademe, put your Trademe name in google and see what happens. This explains one of the ways T/m keeps its self at the top of the search list.

What other information do they have about YOU thay they have SOLD or LEAKED, or plainly given out to aid their promotion. Some much for the PRIVACY Act and their claims arround it Methink.

This is a very recent discovery for me, the more I think about it, the less I like it.

Issue to be researched ECT ECT.

Sb0h
07-09-2004, 09:38 AM
My previous post was not very clear. What I meant was the business is free to change its policies, charges or terms and conditions at any time it sees fit. By the same token the customer is free to agree to the new terms or shop elsewhere. While Trade Me may have upset people with their change of policy and the charging of a registration fee, it is your choice to use it or not. Yes I agree there are some businesses around that get a bit greedy and decide they will charge for this that and everything so they can make more money. I trust the free market economy will let those businesses know rather quickly that consumers must receive value for that money.

metla
07-09-2004, 09:43 AM
I would tend to agree,Infact i fail to see what the big deal is,its just a site asking for money.

Don't like it?.....don't use it then,if enough people leave they may change their policy.

As long as they aren't number 1 because they are protected by the govenment then its all sweet as.

andrew93
07-09-2004, 10:02 AM
Sorry to keep disagreeing with you guys but with all due respect I don't think I have missed the point. I believe drb1 is not telling the whole story - quotes from one of drb1's earlier posts :

>non authenticated members may sell a maximum of 3 items at 1 time.

and

>have been doing this for some time.

So, my understanding is that drb1 is using the TradeMe site to sell items on a regular basis as a non-authenticated member, without paying any fees whatsoever. I suspect that drb1 is creating new user accounts to take advantage of the "credit" you get when opening an account (correct me if I am wrong). Now if drb1 is using multiple accounts then this is in breach of the TradeMe terms and conditions - expect no sympathy for "scams" involving multiple accounts.

If TradeMe are disallowing multiple registrations with the same e-mail address then fair enough and if users try to circumvent that by using international throwaway e-mail addresses and are asked to register, then once again I say fair enough and tough luck. If you wish to make use of the features on their site and they ask for payment, either accept that or go away, but don't bring your gripes to this forum if you don't have "clean hands".

TradeMe is a business and if people such as drb1 wish to breach their rules then they can expect the consequences and if they wish to use their services for free then they can go to the other free online auction sites (incidentally where there are no buyers or sellers). In the free market, if TradeMe are doing such a terrible job then they will go out of business. If however, you believe that you get what you pay for and TradeMe is a little more expensive than other auction sites, then good on TradeMe, they have got to where they are through staying power and good business management. How many other dot.com companies are still around? What are the listing counts on those free sites? How long do you think those other sites will be around? If you don't like paying fees then go to those other auction sites and don't whinge about TradeMe - you have a choice!

I'd be interested to hear the whole story from drb1. How have you managed to trade "for some time" without paying any fees? Are you using multiple TradeMe accounts? Are you using an e-mail address such as yahoo or hotmail to create an account? Give us all of the details drb1 so that the others posters in this thread can have an informed debate, rather than an emotive debate.

I think some readers may change their opinion as to who is scamming whom.

metla
07-09-2004, 11:17 AM
Asumptions are the mother of all ********.

I do believe they removed the free credit about a year ago,which blows the entire theroy out of the water.

Its more likely Trademe have places restrictions on members who don't have their address verified,This could be motivated by greed,or more likely by forceing the majority of users to upgrade to address verified remove some of the dodgy sellers.

Makes perfect sence to me,Good on them.

andrew93
07-09-2004, 11:38 AM
> I do believe they removed the free credit about a
> year ago,which blows the entire theroy out of the
> water.

It may validate my theory if drb1 is trying to set up a new account and even if drb1 is not trying to set up a new account then it may be damaging (but not catastrophic) to my argument, as you say - assumptions......

[Repeat] I'd still be interested to hear the whole story from drb1. How have you managed to trade "for some time" without paying any fees? Are you using multiple TradeMe accounts? Are you using an e-mail address such as yahoo or hotmail to create an account?

drb1
07-09-2004, 06:48 PM
>
> So, my understanding is that drb1 is using the
> TradeMe site to sell items on a regular basis as a
> non-authenticated member, without paying any fees
> whatsoever. I suspect that drb1 is creating new user
> accounts to take advantage of the "credit" you get
> when opening an account (correct me if I am wrong).
> Now if drb1 is using multiple accounts then this is
> in breach of the TradeMe terms and conditions -
> expect no sympathy for "scams" involving multiple
> accounts.
>
> If TradeMe are disallowing multiple registrations
> with the same e-mail address then fair enough and if
> users try to circumvent that by using international
> throwaway e-mail addresses and are asked to register,
> then once again I say fair enough and tough luck. If
> you wish to make use of the features on their site
> and they ask for payment, either accept that or go
> away, but don't bring your gripes to this forum if
> you don't have "clean hands".
>
> TradeMe is a business and if people such as drb1 wish
> to breach their rules then they can expect the
> consequences and if they wish to use their services
> for free then they can go to the other free online
> auction sites (incidentally where there are no buyers
> or sellers). In the free market, if TradeMe are
> doing such a terrible job then they will go out of
> business. If however, you believe that you get what
> you pay for and TradeMe is a little more expensive
> than other auction sites, then good on TradeMe, they
> have got to where they are through staying power and
> good business management. How many other dot.com
> companies are still around? What are the listing
> counts on those free sites? How long do you think
> those other sites will be around? If you don't like
> paying fees then go to those other auction sites and
> don't whinge about TradeMe - you have a choice!
>
> I'd be interested to hear the whole story from drb1.
> How have you managed to trade "for some time"
> without paying any fees? Are you using multiple
> TradeMe accounts? Are you using an e-mail address
> such as yahoo or hotmail to create an account? Give
> us all of the details drb1 so that the others
> posters in this thread can have an informed debate,
> rather than an emotive debate.
>
> I think some readers may change their opinion as to
> who is scamming whom.

So, my understanding is that drb1 is using the TradeMe site to sell items on a regular basis as a non-authenticated member, without paying any fees whatsoever. I suspect that drb1 is creating new user accounts to take advantage of the "credit" you get when opening an account (correct me if I am wrong). Now if drb1 is using multiple accounts then this is in breach of the TradeMe terms and conditions - expect no sympathy for "scams" involving multiple accounts.

No Multiple accounts. No sales = No money owed to Scam me.

Any person may advertise 3 items at one time continuosly with out, PAYING to be authenticated. These sellers must pay to Scamme any fees owed. Scammes' rules.

You can change the rules any time, if you do it publicly and fairly, It is you business.

The sleezy Back door aproach is the problem not open publicized change.

Did you realy me to say that Scamme would allow pople to sell for free?

There are no dirty hands. no rules have been breached if you enter into a dispute with scam me for long enough you will not have to give a real telephone number. would you like to see their @mail to that effect.

There is nothing wrong or illegal about multiple identities on the net, unless it is with fraudlent or other crimminal intent.

You are loking for windows on a glass house Most of these are steell reinforced. Do you think I would leave myself open to defamation. nocody on the net is untraceable today if you want to spend the money to find them.

Where please did I state that I had not payed fees.

Please debunk at will, please get it Right,

A legitimate trader who has good positive feed back, who owes Trade me no money, who has not defrauded Trademe of 1 cent.

Who has consistently resisted every forced attemp by trade me to pay to be authenticated. who uses a local isp and aan @ address directly linked to that local isp. has been told by Trdeme that he is a forign national an he may not relist his unsold auctions. Unless he pays $10-00.

The traders feedback which I believe trade me have as they claim to own it. Shows clearly that he is a local trader if he is not how did he make all the pickups, and collect all the Mmanukau City parcels.

CEDIT when you join Trademe? Dont not steal the conditions from "openallhours.co.nz" who give $50-00 free Advertising credit to all new members, and assign it to trademe, who will only give you free adress verification after you have paid to be autheticated (Does this not include an address check) and have at least 10 positive feed backs.

Like telecom T/m provide a service as many others have said it is not the site it was. 80% of the sales are made buy less than 20% of the members. The average buyer has a feed back of less than 59 and dollar sales of less than $200-00. Scamme is making a fortune ripping of small kiwis and allowing international scammers to do the same, there is a lot of evidence to this effect.

The first thing a scammer does is pay $10-00 up front cheap cost (only) cost of business.

Definatly who is scamming whom, with what dirty tatics?

Anything not answered? anything you wish to know? ask. you dont start something like this unless you can back it up.

I can if you wish get for you details of how to trace an id, on Ttrademe to Florida to Canada to Wanganui. It is also on Scammbusters forum. That enviroment may not sit well with your position.

Trade me also have this information they "Know" I am not an international trader, This is just another Trademe Scam.

P/s

Anbody who has become address verified by Spamme ever wondered how some of those "snail mail" spammers got their names and Addresses.

As soon as anybody buys or sells one item on Scamme their Scamme id is listed on google, now how does that happen I wonder?

drb1
07-09-2004, 07:08 PM
Metla,

I have no problem with address verification. I believe (would require but dont run the show) all new registrations should be viewer only untill.

1 @ address confirmed genuine ISP address (If hotmail Ect are allowed dont complain when people use them, mainly to protect from spam)

2 Nobody should be allowed to sell untill they can prove at their expence.
That their Physical address, their name and their @address belong toghether. For foriegn nationals this should be confirmed by an independent source (J.P Ect).

Trademe Want a contact @address Your Land line number (so they can ring you if you owe them, Which they dont check unless you owe them) and $10-00 up front.

Then its go rip off as many kiwis as you like, as long as you pay we dont care.

Its not to expensive to do the above you Make all the sellers pay for it themselves.

Of course if you did this, you wouldnt have a false Member total of 60-000+ (Check) which you use to increase your advertising revenues.

This borders on fraud it is being looked into.

Who is realy Scamming whom?

andrew93
07-09-2004, 08:02 PM
> No Multiple accounts. No sales = No money owed to
> Scam me.

If you are not making sales then what is the issue? I thought you were making sales ..... anyway ......

> Any person may advertise 3 items at one time
> continuosly with out, PAYING to be authenticated.
> These sellers must pay to Scamme any fees owed.

[chaff deleted]

> Where please did I state that I had not payed fees.

Have you sold anything yet? I presume you must have because you stated in a previous post that you had sold plenty of items although above you say "no sales = no money owed". I'm confused but I believe you are trading because you said you have bought and sold things on TradeMe.

I take it that the thrust of your objection was paying $10 to become authenticated. Is that correct?

As per the TradeMe site, the $10 authentication fee is credited to your account (http://www.trademe.co.nz/STRUCTURE/HELPDOCS/DEFAULT.ASP?help_id=288&crm_subject_id=&crm_subject_path=), so if, in your own words, you have been selling things for a while and again, in your own words, you owe TradeMe nothing, then I could reasonably assume that you have previously made a payment to TradeMe at some point in time. And, if that is the case, why have you been happy to pay success fees in the past but are not happy to prepay $10 onto your account, especially if you intend to use the TradeMe site (you stated you wanted to relist items) to sell items in future?

> Please debunk at will, please get it Right,
>
> A legitimate trader who has good positive feed back,
> who owes Trade me no money, who has not defrauded
> Trademe of 1 cent.

So, if you are using TradeMe regularly, and the link I provided above shows the payment will be credited to your account, and given you have no intention of defrauding anyone, what's the BFD?

> Who has consistently resisted every forced attemp by
> trade me to pay to be authenticated.

> who uses a local
> isp and aan @ address directly linked to that local
> isp. has been told by Trdeme that he is a forign
> national an he may not relist his unsold auctions.
> Unless he pays $10-00.
>
> The traders feedback which I believe trade me have as
> they claim to own it. Shows clearly that he is a
> local trader if he is not how did he make all the
> pickups, and collect all the Mmanukau City parcels.

I don't doubt for a moment that you are who you say are and my apologies for thinking you were trying to rip off TradeMe.

> CEDIT when you join Trademe? Dont not steal the
> conditions from "openallhours.co.nz" who give $50-00
> free Advertising credit to all new members,

TradeMe used to give a credit to new members - some of the older TradeMe members will remember this and per metla's previous thread you will see this has been discontinued.

[chaff deleted]

> Anbody who has become address verified by Spamme ever
> wondered how some of those "snail mail" spammers got
> their names and Addresses.

I haven't been snail mail spammed as a result of becoming AV on TradeMe, and given you are not address verified, how would you know?

> As soon as anybody buys or sells one item on Scamme
> their Scamme id is listed on google, now how does
> that happen I wonder?

Googlebots (http://www.google.com/bot.html) - no mystery or conspiracy theory there.

drb1
07-09-2004, 08:51 PM
So, if you are using TradeMe regularly, and the link I provided above shows the payment will be credited to your account, and given you have no intention of defrauding anyone, what's the BFD?

Sleazy underhanded tactics to get people to pay an unnecessary sum up front. Then reserving the right to charge $5-00 to refund change. (That is a scam)

Then using ridiculous subterfuge to try to force people who resist, but work within the rules.

I found it funny, and annoying, funny because their interest is so self only.

Annoying because while they waste time on side issues like this. Gullible kiwis are ripped of daily by pro scammers who have paid scamme to avoid detection.


They are chasing molehills for pennies, while mountains (That rip off the innocent) pass them buy. This is the type of people they are.

Some who have never dealt with them, may enjoy some insight into this, may be surprised to discover that Nigerians, Rumanians, Indonesians, Russians, Ect, can so simply rip them off, assisted by SCAMME.

drb1
07-09-2004, 09:05 PM
This type of unethical behaviour (By Trademe) becomes acceptable business behaviour, if there is no objection it leads to a further breakdown in Ethical standards.

Which leads to the "Enronís" and stock dealer debacles, that are very expensive for the consumer, who pays for it all in the end.

george12
08-09-2004, 12:57 AM
I have no problem with trademe. I have sold/bought about 35 items, and have never been "scammed".

drb1, I don't think you understand the concept behind trademe: They let you sell on their site : you pay them money.

It is quite a basic business concept. Now answer for me, HOW can you have:

- NOT payed them $10
- but sold items?

There is nothing unethical about business drb1.

Supermarkets try to make money.
I try to make money.
Dick smiths try to make money.
PC World/IDG try to make money.

Just as trademe does. Just as you can't buy a computer from Dick Smiths without paying, you can't sell stuff on trademe without paying.

My 2 cents.

drb1
08-09-2004, 01:11 AM
> I have no problem with trademe. I have sold/bought
> about 35 items, and have never been "scammed".
>
> drb1, I don't think you understand the concept behind
> trademe: They let you sell on their site : you pay
> them money.
>
> It is quite a basic business concept. Now answer for
> me, HOW can you have:
>
> - NOT payed them $10
> - but sold items?
>
> There is nothing unethical about business drb1.
>
> Supermarkets try to make money.
> I try to make money.
> Dick smiths try to make money.
> PC World/IDG try to make money.
>
> Just as trademe does. Just as you can't buy a
> computer from Dick Smiths without paying, you can't
> sell stuff on trademe without paying.
>
> My 2 cents.

I repeat under T/m rules any unauthenticated Seller MAY list a maximum of 3 items continiously.

You sell, you pay. (What you owe). No sell, no pay.

Their rules, I did not make them, I followed them.

They are using unethical tactics to enfore their unwritten policys. Thats the issue, Changing the rules to suit your self under the counter.

No pay $10-00 up front as buyer, can not ask question, can not use buy now (Very unfair for buyer only). Side issue

Buyer only should be able to use buy now and deffinatly should be able to ask questions

george12
08-09-2004, 02:49 PM
Extra services cost too though. Buynow and question asking can just be thought of as extras that you would OBVIOUSLY want but cost, just as higher bandwidth costs on you're ISP.

You don't hear people saying "Jetstream Surf for 39.95... Their rules, all good. But when you try to move up to 3GB a month, they make you pay $10.00! And the worst thing about ScamxTRA is that you have to pay $10 more if your not on Telecom!"

drb1, just authenticate yourself. Some sellers make their auction "Star: authenticated buyers only".

It is well worth $10.

TradeMe is not a scam.

Cheers George

drb1
08-09-2004, 05:59 PM
> Extra services cost too though. Buynow and question
> asking can just be thought of as extras that you
> would OBVIOUSLY want but cost, just as higher
> bandwidth costs on you're ISP.
>
> You don't hear people saying "Jetstream Surf for
> 39.95... Their rules, all good. But when you try to
> move up to 3GB a month, they make you pay $10.00! And
> the worst thing about ScamxTRA is that you have to
> pay $10 more if your not on Telecom!"
>
> drb1, just authenticate yourself. Some sellers make
> their auction "Star: authenticated buyers only".
>
> It is well worth $10.
>
> TradeMe is not a scam.
>
> Cheers George


I donít need to, on principle, I wont. Because I donít agree with making honest buyers, buy blind because they have not paid up front. VERY LOW TACTICS.

Member only auctions only limit the buyer pool. They are another Trademe underhanded tactic. I have yet to check Trademe sale stats, in real floor Auctions, more sales are settled by ďnegotiationĒ than under the Hammer.

The Trademe single blunt offer system kills many possible negotiated sales.

The stupid flaw in the Trademe member only auctions, is that if you watch a "Member only Auction" that does not result in a sale, as a Watcher who is not "Authenticated" you will still be allowed to participate in the offer proses, and make a purchase. I have done this.

If that is not inconsistent, and hypocritical what is?

Trademe canít get the money for the sale from a member, then take any money going,

Who? Is Scamming Whom?

R2x1
08-09-2004, 06:11 PM
> Who? Is Scamming Whom?

When you are a seller, do you sell to the lowest or the highest bidder? Strangely, the owners of trade-me wish to maximise their returns too.
If you think they are charging too much, it should be easy enough to undercut them, take all their trade and retire to live a comfortable retirement before you turn 20.
If you were compelled to use their service and the world prevented from competing, that would be worthy of a bit of ire and fury.
Cheers
R2

metla
08-09-2004, 06:11 PM
No one.

Its a pay system,live with it or move on.

drb1
08-09-2004, 06:27 PM
Oh to see 20 Again, Principle is principle, Scam is Scam.

These Unethical Roughtsterís are about to move into Property, in volume.

That is the largest investment most Nzerís make in their lives.

Scamme does not belong in Real estate."

antmannz
08-09-2004, 08:09 PM
Hmmm .... TradeMe is largely based on EBay. Yet I don't see you lambasting them.

Lohsing
08-09-2004, 09:30 PM
I guess the difference being Ebay is run by professionals, whereas Trademe on the other hand...

Lo.

drb1
08-09-2004, 10:23 PM
I guess the difference being Ebay is run by professionals, whereas Trademe on the other hand...

So right.

Ethical up front Proffesionals, Ebay the largest bits'a online Auction in the world. With members shipping all over the world, does not have the scam issues that T/M has on %.

Ebay does not use Sleazy drag in tactics. like T/m. Ebay can not use unhderhand tactics because they value their global reputation.

T/m is 4 years old, it runs on stolen idea's, with poor Morals and Ethics. Its customer relation are plumeting by the day, Kiwi's love cheepies, ebay was too far away.

If T/m dont clean up their act ,will they still be here, and dooing as well in 4 years time.

T/m are a straight .com can they hold it toghether against local commpettition offering a better/fairer deal, with other revenue sources

george12
09-09-2004, 03:32 PM
> Its customer relation are plumeting by the day

My only (2) experiences with TradeMe staff have been prompt and friendly.

> T/m are a straight .com

The only difference being that they are NZ owned, operated, hosted. :)

> it runs on stolen idea's

*cough* an auction site is a basic concept. You can't copy that sort of idea.

> If T/m dont clean up their act ,will they still be here, and dooing as well in 4 years time.

Yes

> can they hold it toghether against local commpettition offering a better/fairer deal, with other revenue sources

If I knew of a competitor I liked more, I'd use it. And you would too drb1. But as far as I know, TradeMe is the best place I know of in NZ to buy stuff. As for selling, private sales beat everything but TradeMe's good for if you just want to get rid of something.

Cheers George

drb1
09-09-2004, 09:42 PM
> > Its customer relation are plumeting by the day
>
> My only (2) experiences with TradeMe staff have been
> prompt and friendly.

Then you are lucky, and I am pleased for you, Many Many have major problems>


>
> > If T/m dont clean up their act ,will they still be
> here, and dooing as well in 4 years time.
>
> Yes
>
> > can they hold it toghether against local
> commpettition offering a better/fairer deal, with
> other revenue sources
>
> If I knew of a competitor I liked more, I'd use it.
> And you would too drb1. But as far as I know, TradeMe
> is the best place I know of in NZ to buy stuff. As
> for selling, private sales beat everything but
> TradeMe's good for if you just want to get rid of
> something.
>
> Cheers George

I do, Yes T/m is an excellent dumping ground for junk that will not move in P/sale.

It is also a honey trap used by predators, T/m know this and do nothing about it. "BECAUSE THEY ONLY WANT YOUR MONEY" T/m know that the $10-00 up front barrier makes life easier for Scammers and Ambiguous Advertisers.

They donít need buyers to pay up front to use the site. Sellers pay T/m. If the rule is to be all sellers pay up front say so, donít have this sleazy touting, you can come and sell a maximum of three things at one time with out paying up front, then change the rules with underhanded pressure tactics overnight.

Sellers need Good buyers others in this forum have mentioned the lack of good buyers on T/m of late. Maybe the majority of the gullible have been bitten and scared away from all online trading for life.

Not good for other fairer operators and genuine mail sellers (Like many smaller comp sales/service outlets)

T/m are in the long term doing great damage to net selling in NZ.

I did not expect this thread to take this track but, lose or draw, I will not run away from it.

metla
09-09-2004, 09:49 PM
There's never a day, that's passing my way
That I never need it
My hands on the wheel, my foot's on the steel
Cause I gotta feel it

The rock rolls forever on- ooh, forever on
Like thunder- coming down, ooh, it's coming down
The rock rolls forever on- ooh, forever on
Like thunder- coming down, aah yeah

It flows through my veins like thunder and rain
And I can't live without it
I scream for the crowds and turn it up loud
Cause I gotta shout it

The rock rolls forever on- ooh, forever on
Like thunder- coming down, ooh, it's coming dow, aah yeah
The rock rolls forever on- ooh, forever on
Like thunder- coming down

Six string and lightning strikes
Come make me blind
Aah, burn it up
Bring down the petal to the metal
Just one more time
Aah, turn it up

The rock rolls forever on
Like thunder- coming down, ooh, it's coming down
The rock rolls forever on- ooh, forever
Like thunder- coming down

Forever never stop
Forever never stop
Forever never stop

andrew93
09-09-2004, 09:54 PM
I'm curious as to what bad experiences you have had as a buyer drb1 - if you could elaborate then we may understand your position a little better. Regarding your comments about the lack of buyers, with time you will find a lot of the sellers are also regular buyers on TradeMe. If items don't sell it is usually because the price is too high or the seller has a bad rep. If you think of TradeMe as being similar to an online garage sale then you won't be disillusioned or disappointed.

drb1
09-09-2004, 10:15 PM
Andrew,

Do I have to pay $10-00 to ask a question at your garage sale?

If you ran a garage sale and said come in her look at this, then said $10-00 first. As soon as I asked you a question.

How much would you sell? What would people say to you?

T/m has been built on robbing, and allowing others to rob, gullible kiwis. They have made their millions (and they have) its time to give a fair deal.

george12
10-09-2004, 03:26 PM
Here's a novel idea: Why don't we all just forget about "Scamme"!

There are enough threads now with the word "Scamme" in them for me to get really annoyed.

If you hate "Scamme" so much drb1, why don't you just leave them and find another place to buy and sell online? Rather than annoying the people that haven't had such negative experiences, or opinions of the morale behind TradeMe.

Nobody is forcing you to sell on TradeMe, so why not just exercise your freedoms and take your business elsewhere? That's what I would do if I had major problems with a company.

Cheers George

Lohsing
10-09-2004, 06:52 PM
> Nobody is forcing you to sell on TradeMe, so why not
> just exercise your freedoms and take your business
> elsewhere? That's what I would do if I had major
> problems with a company.

While I think drb1 has gone slightly overboard, I do think he has some very valid points.

The people behind Trademe are young, and I think it shows through in their customer service. They are by no means, an ebay, or an Amazon.

The reason they are able to act in the manner they do is because there is simply no other alternative. They have had the benefit of being the first to set up an auction website in NZ and will always have the jump on everyone else simply because there will be no real point of difference between Trademe and any other clone which comes into the market.

I am getting a little tired of reading drb1's posts regarding Trademe, but that in itself is no reason for him to stop.

I think Trademe would do well to tidy its customer service up.

Lo.

drb1
10-09-2004, 07:19 PM
Lohsing,

Thank you, not only can you see the point, you comprehend the many issues.

Pillar
10-09-2004, 07:35 PM
> If you ran a garage sale and said come in her look at this, then said $10-00 first. As soon as I asked you a question.

> How much would you sell? What would people say to you?

That's a good point, I think they would tell you to get lost. I don't see how Tardme is any different.

I think the idea of the $10 registration is a bit rude, but I think the idea in behind it is to provide some sort of verification that you are genuine and to provide some sort of identification like Credit Card # or Driver Licence so you can be traced back if you start pulling scams.

I wouldn't buy something off an unverified member unless I was using Safetrader because it could easily be a scam, but I don't mind unverified members buying off me at all as long as they aren't there to stuff me around. As long as there is confirmation of the payment, then there's no way I can lose out.

drb1
10-09-2004, 08:06 PM
Pillar,

Thank you also, check what i said to laura, Regarding who takes what details, and other coments I made about $10-00 up front.

Verification, T/m check this buy sending a mail, with a @ mailreply. they have checked nothing.

Fact: There are 6 people, from 2 differnt familys, on the Electrol rool addressed to the house, I own and live in.

I have watched these people come and collect their bank mail, and leave the rest behind, they get their children to get out of the car and check my mail box for their mail.

Thats how easy it is to fake an address, you wait for the postie and grab yours, be for the owner does, Remember Scammers dont work at full time jobs. The police, ("come in and fill out a complaint form" Action , none, more money in radrar guns for them)

If I was running this, I would want my sellers to pay up front for the same reason as T/m, collection costs, lot's.

I wouldnt use sleazy tactics to get people to use my service, and then change the rules, to get them to give me money up front.

Pillar
11-09-2004, 12:19 AM
> Verification, T/m check this buy sending a mail, with a @ mailreply. they have checked nothing.

Yeah, don't they ask for your driver licence or something when you sign up for the star membership thing?

> I have watched these people come and collect their bank mail, and leave the rest behind, they get their children to get out of the car and check my mail box for their mail.

Thats how easy it is to fake an address, you wait for the postie and grab yours, be for the owner does.

Lol, so true.

drb1
11-09-2004, 12:34 AM
Pillar,

Star membership I know nothing about,

The mail thing is true, the police do not want to know, anything I have sent in the mail of value I have sent to the post office, counter mail.