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View Full Version : still confused with northwood and prescott



dirtbag
04-09-2004, 03:11 PM
I've read most of the threads i could find on the two different cores, but im still baffled. Would a 3.0E Prescott outperform a 3.0 Northwood? My motherboard has 800FSB and dual channel DDR ram.

Spacemannz
04-09-2004, 03:20 PM
Most probably. I think Prescott get hotter too.

dirtbag
04-09-2004, 03:26 PM
how certain is 'most probably' :)

Graham L
04-09-2004, 03:28 PM
A definite maybe. :O

dirtbag
04-09-2004, 03:30 PM
thanks for clearing that up, prescott it is!

tminus
14-09-2004, 11:23 AM
I run a Prescott 2.4a chip (No Hyperthreading, 533 FSB) 1mb L2 cache..

When you go over 3.5 Ghz then the northwoods fall behind in benchmarks a bit but upto 3.5 Ghz they keep up fairly well.

I run an Abit AI7 motherboard, and 1GB good DDR400 ram. Just built this 2 weeks ago.

On Stock cooling fan and HS my prescott runs at upto 3.240 Ghz (Overclocked) with the FSB at 180mhz (720 Mhz effectively).

This is totally stable for gaming and dvd encoding etc. It gets unstable at over 3.3 Ghz.

My processor idles at 42 degrees to 48 degress and sits at 55-65 under load.

I am looking into peltier watercooling and then will get try for over 4 Ghz out of this .They do upto 3.8 on big air cooling.

The Prescott is the new chip for the future, and I built my system with the intention for upgrades to cooling etc in mind. As it is a HTPC, gaming and video rig, I don't care about hyperthreading in the least.

It will backup and burn a DVD with DVD Shrink in 34 minutes. Not bad for ripping, encoding and then burning. That is with 4x DVD+R media too.

I am really happy with it.

My 2c

Pete O\'Neil
14-09-2004, 11:26 AM
Arh not it wouldnt, were talking about socket 478 are we? What chipset does your motherboard use?

Pete O\'Neil
14-09-2004, 11:27 AM
> I am looking into peltier watercooling and then will
> get try for over 4 Ghz out of this .They do upto 3.8
> on big air cooling.
Peltiers are a waste of money, they use to be alright but now days they have no place in the overclockers arsenal. Either go watercooling or spend the big money and make the jump to phase change.

tminus
14-09-2004, 12:36 PM
The motherboard I bought after reading overclocking reviews,

Read these for a description of benchmark performance before you come back with all the "will nots" please. This board runs as well as an 875 even though it runs 865 chipset. It will go to 270+ FSB too (1080+) which is good enough. With this chip though it only needs to go to 222 fsb (888) because of the multiplier being 18.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTQx

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-185-1.htm

quote - "In the above pic, you can get a better look at the monster heatsink/fan unit they use for the northbridge. This is because it supports "GAT" - essentially overclocking the 865PE chipset to enable "PAT" and make it perform like an 875P (or better)."

Runs an 865 chipset but is onpar with 875 with correct BIOS settings as seen in these reviews.

Also, the processor is this one, 2.4a prescott

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjAzLDE=

which they get 3.7 Ghz on water easy with.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjAzLDM=

Conclusion here -

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjAzLDQ=

4.3 Ghz prescott here

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14343

and 3.5 - 4.0 Ghz here with good air cooling

http://www.legitreviews.com/Reviews/prescott_oc_2.shtml

and alot of 3.5+ prescotts all over the overclocking forums on GOOD air cooling..

The AI7 is rated at 250-270 FSB with good ram, and the chip has shown to be capable of 4.0 Ghz.

As I said, it is not finished , I have built it with coming upgrades in mind.

The only question for me will be how to cool it? Water, Peltier or other..

Maybe an ex automotive heater core.

The case has 120mm intake and twin 80mm exhaust currently.

All the 32bit stuff is nice and cheap now that LGA775 is coming. Makes it possible to build a nice 4 GHZ system if you plan well.

I am not debating different chips, I researched this for about 3-4 months then took the plunge. So far it is going to plan. 840 mhz overclock on stock HS and fan.

My 2c

Pete O\'Neil
14-09-2004, 12:50 PM
> The motherboard I bought after reading overclocking
> reviews,
>
> Read these for a description of benchmark performance
> before you come back with all the "will nots" please.
> This board runs as well as an 875 even though it
> runs 865 chipset. It will go to 270+ FSB too (1080+)
> which is good enough. With this chip though it only
> needs to go to 222 fsb (888) because of the
> multiplier being 18.
>
> http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTQx
>
> http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-185-1.htm
>
> quote - "In the above pic, you can get a better look
> at the monster heatsink/fan unit they use for the
> northbridge. This is because it supports "GAT" -
> essentially overclocking the 865PE chipset to enable
> "PAT" and make it perform like an 875P (or better)."
>
> Runs an 865 chipset but is onpar with 875 with
> correct BIOS settings as seen in these reviews.
>
> Also, the processor is this one, 2.4a prescott
>
> http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjAzLDE=
>
> which they get 3.7 Ghz on water easy with.
>
> http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjAzLDM=
>
> Conclusion here -
>
> http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjAzLDQ=
>
> 4.3 Ghz prescott here
>
> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14343
>
> and 3.5 - 4.0 Ghz here with good air cooling
>
> http://www.legitreviews.com/Reviews/prescott_oc_2.shtm
>
>
> and alot of 3.5+ prescotts all over the overclocking
> forums on GOOD air cooling..
>
> The AI7 is rated at 250-270 FSB with good ram, and
> the chip has shown to be capable of 4.0 Ghz.
>
> As I said, it is not finished , I have built it with
> coming upgrades in mind.
>
> The only question for me will be how to cool it?
> Water, Peltier or other..
>
> Maybe an ex automotive heater core.
>
> The case has 120mm intake and twin 80mm exhaust
> currently.
>
> All the 32bit stuff is nice and cheap now that LGA775
> is coming. Makes it possible to build a nice 4 GHZ
> system if you plan well.
>
> I am not debating different chips, I researched this
> for about 3-4 months then took the plunge. So far it
> is going to plan. 840 mhz overclock on stock HS and
> fan.
>
> My 2c

WTF are you on about? Prescott when used in a socket 478 motherboard is slower than northwood, theres no debate about it. The only time that Prescott out preforms northwood is when used with the latest ATI chipset.

Dude get over peliters there a heap of ****, if you want to overclock you have 3 options, high end air cooling, water or phase change. Peltiers are grossly ineffective and are very costly. Also need to take into account that the preformance gain from peltiers over water is very minimal and the increased cost is large.

Oh and another thing, because HardOCP saying a motherboard will do something doesnt many it will. My initial posts weren't intended for you, they were intended for Spacemannz.

tminus
14-09-2004, 01:32 PM
>>WTF are you on about? Prescott when used in a socket 478 motherboard is slower than northwood, theres no debate about it. The only time that Prescott out preforms northwood is when used with the latest ATI chipset.


**Really sorry but I have read a heck of alot of site reviews and forums showing that above 3.5Ghz the Prescott matches and beats Northwood on the same system. I prefer to follow properly documented information from many then one post on a weblog. No offence.


>>Dude get over peliters there a heap of ****, if you want to overclock >>you have 3 options, high end air cooling, water or phase change.>> >>Peltiers are grossly ineffective and are very costly. Also need to take >>into account that the preformance gain from peltiers over water is >>very minimal and the increased cost is large.

**Did you actually read my reply?

**" The only question for me will be how to cool it?Water, Peltier or other.."

**I haven't decided which way to go yet with it, just looking at the options.

>>Oh and another thing, because HardOCP saying a motherboard will >>do something doesnt many it will. My initial posts weren't intended for >>you, they were intended for Spacemannz.

**HAHA, again, if you read my original post at all, HardOCP was just ONE of many reviews of the motherboard I have seen. I only supplied two FYI, I was not going to link to half a dozen of them. I based my purchase on information from many, not just HardOCP.

**And no offence, but half a dozen or more websites and forums showing positive performance , and benchmarks for the product are enough for me to buy it and be happy with it doing what they say it does. Read the email in full next time before you reply with confusing comments.

This is my last post on this, I was just helping some oneout with info on the prescott which IS a very good chip above 3.5Ghz as shown by MANY on the web.

Not going to get into a flame war over nothing. Sheesh. But your last word will be interesting I spose ;)

MartynC
14-09-2004, 01:37 PM
Can't we all just use AMD & Get along? ;\

tminus
14-09-2004, 01:42 PM
>>Can't we all just use AMD & Get along?


:)

classic ;) hehehehe

Pete O\'Neil
14-09-2004, 02:19 PM
> **And no offence, but half a dozen or more websites
> and forums showing positive performance , and
> benchmarks for the product are enough for me to buy
> it and be happy with it doing what they say it does.
> Read the email in full next time before you reply
> with confusing comments.
>
> This is my last post on this, I was just helping some
> oneout with info on the prescott which IS a very good
> chip above 3.5Ghz as shown by MANY on the web.
>
> Not going to get into a flame war over nothing.
> Sheesh. But your last word will be interesting I
> spose ;)

Your entitled to beleive whatever you wish, its just unfortunate that is wrong. I dont care if you've spent several years doing research, i read many reviews in my spare time as i like to keep up with the latest trends in hardware, you could post any link to a review and chance are i've read it. The original poster asked what would be faster a 3.0GHz Prescott or a 3.0Ghz Northwood. The answer to that question is that the Northwood would be faster, if you disagree with that then you've been reading the wrong reviews or can't read fullstop.

Your continual big noting about your overclocking is irrelivant, the original poster made no mention of overclocking. If you want to get into a wankfest about overclock start a new thread and i'll happily post overclocking results that are as impressive as yours if not more impressive.

I read your post (its not an email) and found there to be no relivant facts posted you were mearly justifing your choice of motherboard and CPU which has no relivance to this thread. I dont really care what motherboard and CPU combo you have at the end of the day its your choice. In my intitial post i was replying to Spacemannz post where he said that the Prescott was faster than Northwood @ 3.0GHz, perhaps i should have made it clearer. So to make things nice and easy for you as you have shown you have a tendecy to go overboard i'll say it again, my initial post was not a reply to you.

If you would like to get into a debate over what arictecture is faster feel free to start a new thread, but if you ask any true hardware enthusiast he'll tell you that at 3.0GHz the Northwood core is faster than Prescott.

tminus
14-09-2004, 03:15 PM
>>Your continual big noting about your overclocking is irrelivant, the >>original poster made no mention of overclocking. If you want to get >>into a wankfest about overclock start a new thread and i'll happily >>post overclocking results that are as impressive as yours if not more >>impressive.
>>If you would like to get into a debate over what arictecture is faster >>feel free to start a new thread, but if you ask any true hardware >>enthusiast he'll tell you that at 3.0GHz the Northwood core is faster >>than Prescott.

Huh?

I do agree with you there. 3Ghz Northwood is faster then 3Ghz Prescott.
I never said any different. Again, you do not bother to read.

And at 3.5 Ghz and above the Prescott equals Northwood in benchmarks and is faster too in most areas too.

And to quote yourself - this all applies to you too.

>Your entitled to beleive whatever you wish, its just unfortunate that is >wrong

>if you disagree with that then you've been reading the wrong reviews >or can't read fullstop.

I only go overboard when someone tells me I am wrong and then forgets to show their reasoning why.

Guys like you make me laugh. You shut down anyone who doesn't follow your opinions because "you" are right. Get over yourself, these forums are here to help and not to flame someones elses approach or system.

I offered the guy what I knew and BACKED it up with information and links about the differences between prescott and northwood.

And lets be honest, Prescott is the affordable processor core that Intel have chosen for the 4Ghz and up future domain,

I would prefer to trust Intels engineers and my experiences then a web list poster.

Classic. I guess there will always be egomaniacs roaming whatever thread someone comments on.

And if you are going to be picky about the difference between a post and an email, and whether or not I can read reviews fullstop..

..then maybe you should enable your spellcheck buddy and take a good long look at your grammar before writing another post cowboy.

Peace out.

metla
14-09-2004, 03:36 PM
Intel suck.

































......................HA.

Pete O\'Neil
14-09-2004, 03:44 PM
>I do agree with you there. 3Ghz Northwood is faster then 3Ghz >Prescott. I never said any different. Again, you do not bother to read.

>And at 3.5 Ghz and above the Prescott equals Northwood in ?>benchmarks and is faster too in most areas too.

So what your point? This whole thread is about 3GHz Northwoods and Prescotts, get a life and move on at no point did anybody ask for your reasoning on P4's at 3.5GHz.

**me sits and waits for tminus to come back and tell me that he saw it on the internet so it must be tru

>Guys like you make me laugh. You shut down anyone who doesn't >follow your opinions because "you" are right. Get over yourself, these >forums are here to help and not to flame someones elses approach or >system.
Guys like you make me laugh, in the PC ethusiast community we have names for people like you "n00b" and "tard" are a couple that come to mind. People who think that because they read it on the internet it must be right, have you yourself actually benchmarked a Northwood vs. Prescott?

>I offered the guy what I knew and BACKED it up with information and >links about the differences between prescott and northwood.
Wahoo cause HardOCP is such a reliable non-bias website ;) if you take what HardOCP write as gospel then your a bigger fool than i thought possible. I'm not even going to mention "hardcoreware.net" of the links you provided the only one worth even acknowledging would be legitreviews. And quite frankly i dont really care what core is faster @ 3.5GHz as A) there arent both prescott and northwood P4's avaliable at that speed to make a proper comparrison B) thats not the point of the discusion.

>And lets be honest, Prescott is the affordable processor core that Intel >have chosen for the 4Ghz and up future domain.
I'm not debating that, after you've finished being a pain in the ass let start a good ole fashion AMD vs Intel flame war ;)

>I guess there will always be egomaniacs roaming whatever thread >someone comments on.
Im gonna take that as a compliment. Excuse while i go off to polish my ego.

Susan B
14-09-2004, 03:53 PM
Here we go again....

tminus
14-09-2004, 04:03 PM
Guys like you make me laugh, in the PC ethusiast community we have names for people like you "n00b" and "tard" are a couple that come to mind. People who think that because they read it on the internet it must be right, have you yourself actually benchmarked a Northwood vs. Prescott?

**why yes, I have . And I stopped counting when the eighth Prescott system I built matched the many Northwoods I have also built.

**But then being a noob or tard pc builder and having built more systems then I can remember for paying customers for well over six years, Sh*t I am surprised they even run. And I don't consider myself a pc enthusiast. I consider myself a pc engineer.

So what your point? This whole thread is about 3GHz Northwoods and Prescotts, get a life and move on at no point did anybody ask for your reasoning on P4's at 3.5GHz.

**my point is 1.) you tell someone they are wrong and you are right. And make no reasonable explanation as to why.
2.) You conveniently don't read posts in full, and choose to hammer one or two sentences even when other parts of the post agree with you.
3.) The guy asked for the differences between the new Prescott and the older Northwood.


And , I will write this clearly -

I have no preference between Intel or AMD so I wouldn't be any good in a flame war. I have built many systems and networks based on both platforms for business and personal users and they both have their good and bad points.

Classic. Watch out for the ego once you've finished polishing it, might fall over and squash ya ;)

metla
14-09-2004, 04:06 PM
Heathen,AMD have no bad points.

Pete O\'Neil
14-09-2004, 04:22 PM
>1.) you tell someone they are wrong and you are right. And make no >reasonable explanation as to why.
At no point did i say you were wrong, you keep making refrence to my first poster thinking it was a reply to you IT WASNT. My whole point is that you've gone overboard providing irrelevant infomation and making the topic more confusing than it needs to be. Big noting about your overclocked P4 is not helpful, the original poster wants to know about 3.0GHz P4's not a 3.5GHz P4. If you would like me to provide links from reputable websites showing that Northwood is faster than Prescott (2.8Ghz -3.2Ghz as they are the only P4's avaliable in both cores) then just ask.

>2.) You conveniently don't read posts in full, and choose to hammer one >or two sentences even when other parts of the post agree with you.
Did you ever stop and think that just maybe i agree with you on some points and disagree with you on others?

>3.) The guy asked for the differences between the new Prescott and >the older Northwood.
No he asked what was faster a 3.0GHz Northwood or a 3.0GHz Prescott. He was then misinformed by Spacemannz, who i then replyed to saying he was wrong. My post wasnt the clearest but i also tryed to make the point that you cant mearly make the call based on the CPU. You also need to take into account the chipset and the socket.

>I consider myself a pc engineer
Purely out of interest (not trying to offend) do you have a degree to say your a engineer?

Pillar
14-09-2004, 04:28 PM
Pete, why can't you debate the points calmly instead of turning it into a fiery mud slinging match with you calling people "n00bs" and "tards"? That's just downright rude and insulting.

tminus
14-09-2004, 04:28 PM
>I consider myself a pc engineer
>>Purely out of interest (not trying to offend) do you have a degree to >>say your a engineer?

mm hmm.

BSc Computer Science + Programming 1995
MSCE Full
CCNA

9-10 years Industry experience.

I guess you sure showed me huh.

Pete O\'Neil
14-09-2004, 04:41 PM
> mm hmm.
>
> BSc Computer Science + Programming 1995
> MSCE Full
> CCNA
>
> 9-10 years Industry experience.
Hmm I guess you could call yourself an engineer then ;)

> I guess you sure showed me huh.
Dont know what i suppose to be showing you, but eh.

Pete O\'Neil
14-09-2004, 04:42 PM
> Pete, why can't you debate the points calmly instead
> of turning it into a fiery mud slinging match with
> you calling people "n00bs" and "tards"? That's just
> downright rude and insulting.

Oh Pillar is soooooo Kiki, wondered how long it would take for you to resurface. I was sooooo hoping you wouldnt, oh at the rate your going doubt it will be long till you get banned again.

Biggles
14-09-2004, 04:42 PM
Consider this a big bucket of water thrown over the lot of you. Usual cautions and "read the rules" rants apply.