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mejobloggs
02-09-2004, 06:04 PM
I am trying to set up an online shop, where people can buy things, and pay by credit card, and securely.

How would I go about this, and what would I need? How much would it cost to set up?

metla
02-09-2004, 06:19 PM
Buy a domain
Pay for some hosting
Build a webpage
Use a credit card verification service.
Be prepared for constant cc orders from people in Nigeria and Indonisia using yahoo mail.


And if your very lucky you may even get contacted by a person claiming to be ceo of a billion dollar company that produces LCD's who will want to purchase 40 grands worth of lcd's...Lmao,that one amused me.

mejobloggs
02-09-2004, 06:42 PM
heh, right.

Please explain this credit card verification service to me. Got a link?

Is a shopping cart any good, like agora or oscommerce? Do they handle the credit card payments as well?

I looked at your site, and that is what I want, very nice. Wow, I like that Doominator!

metla
02-09-2004, 11:08 PM
The easist way to do it is as you mentioned,to just use a host that provides a shopping cart/template.....but then your site just looks like the other 42 billion sites using that shopping cart.

Cant give you a link to a cc verifier,i was contacted by a couple of them but seeing as i can't track them down i presume they have disapeared.

This might be worth looking at.

http://www.thawte.com/


what is it your intending to sell?

whiskeytangofoxtrot
02-09-2004, 11:10 PM
Hmm... I would suggest enlisting the services of someone experienced and skilled in doing it.

If you're asking here for help going alone would probably a bad idea.

Greg S
03-09-2004, 12:26 AM
> Is a shopping cart any good, like agora or
> oscommerce? Do they handle the credit card payments
> as well?

Agora and oscommerce are both good. But no, they don't handle the payments. Your customer (I'm assuming you're enquiring on behalf of a customer) will need to have their own card processing facilities with their bank. If you want live transactional processing it costs a fortune - speak to your bank. But simply being able to process card payments once you have the client's card details is a lot less expensive - though they still need to have it organised by their bank. You will always need a SSL secured server to hold the clients' details - either your own or shared.

45South
03-09-2004, 02:20 AM
If you want a recommendation here's mine
I use them for all my sites & they have all you need at the best prices around
http://www.kiwiwebhost.co.nz/
I've found their support/help desk excellent as well

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:33 AM
Basic Ecommerce Guide
Editor: Creighton Brown [www.creightonbrown.geek.nz]
Editor note: this was compiled on 2004.09.03 between midnight and 1.19AM
Please allow that all knowledge when analysed from different perspectives can be deemed different than the original analysis. Allow that this is a few page articles, not the teachings of a degree level of depth.

Elements involved:
1. Domain
2. Hosting
3. Site Architecture
4. Planning
5. Designs
6. Payment support

Introduction
In general get many opinions, try to go with those with more experience and understanding of the issues involved. No one may always be right, but each person, some more than others, may shed more insight into what is involved which with methodical analysis may add to the insight of the issue at hand.

1. Domain
Cost: $38/Year [From www.iSERVE.co.nz]
1.1 Domains in New Zealand may typically for companies be companyname.co.nz
1.2 If you use a name which is not your own company it is possible you could lose the name. If you register www.companyname.co.nz but Company Name Limited exists there could be legal disputes as to ownership. Cases may be partly assessed on the purpose of the domain e.g. if you bought it then tried to contact the company and sell it at a mark-up, which is bad net etiquette some dub cyber squatting.
1.3 There are a variety of domain extensions available in New Zealand and around the world for different purposes. You could elect to search for the domain extension which best suits your intended purpose.

2. Hosting
Cost: $5 or more a month [from www.digitalbuilder.co.nz]
My Typical clients cost $15/Month
2.1 Hosting may support additional functionality such as scripting or programming. It may also support databases or other special components. I would suggest seeking advice from professionals so that you have the right language, database, and component support for what you intend to do after doing systems analysis

4. Site Architecture
Cost: May be tied in with systems analysis. I would advice separate report if talking significant investment.
You should consider or let someone advise you as to what options for Languages, Databases and components would be advisable. This may tied in with planning once the scope of the web application or website is known.
People may favour various languages. There are nuances between various languages and each may have particular strengths and weaknesses in terms of cost for designing, hosting, availability of servers or other issues.

Generally I wouldnít say I have noticed that PHP, ASP, Cold Fusion sites are any better or worse than others on average. I think there is to consider that PHP may have cheaper licensing and there may be data which supports it as a cost effective option. However ASP has more support for Microsoft Access Databases, which means the coding time could be less for the design and more work could be done in a standard package, so the costs due to the variety of systems that are involved can and will be distorted to the knowledge the user has been exposed to and for the purposes of their endeavour. There is a large variety of Server languages out there but be aware that those which are a rarity may be harder to find support with.

As a rule the more common ones are ASP, PHP, Cold Fusion, ASP.NET, Java Server pages in that order. There is more complete references out there but at this stage I would recommend just consider that this section is one of the most prone to being distorted for the purposes of a web designer as by highlighting the languages they support as best it may lead to financial reward for their services. This may be less so with some of the other options stated here because there less complex issues that can be presented in a complicated fashion for ones purpose.

4. Planning
May Range from $40-$120/Hour
Smaller Business sites may take from experience about 5 Hours although complexity varies greatly
Itís estimated in various literature I have in Systems Analysis that failure to plan makes up to 80% of additional cost. And those projects can go typically 151% of original budget in some locations because of complications which arise. Ideally you should have some idea of what the system will entail.
Common Plans include
2.1 Flow Diagram
Highlights what processes should occur for the site. This may be less technical to start with and allow the site owner or manager to get involved so that plans can be drawn up

2.2 Use Case
Ideally this could be partly extrapolated by the Systems analyser from a flow Diagram or discussion.
Lists Actors, or various types of users of the system, and what functionality they can perform. By having plans as to what the site is supposed to do in this fashion it helps determine what should be in the data storage and what the site should be able to do.

2.3 ERD
Entity Relationship Diagram
Allows documentation of the database to highlight what will be stored about the web application or web site.
2.4 Page Diagram
It May highlight pages and structure of the file system. Perhaps less essential than the first two but may prove useful on smaller sites or where the system is to be documented
2.5 DFD Data Flow Diagram
May highlight a more detailed fashion of the how the system works, what program code bits there are and what module or sections works with what actors and data

4. Designing
$50-200 Page price typically from what I have noted.
$40-120 [Note that people below $40/Hour may not yet have professional competence from experience noted so far, for contracting rates, which is different to employed rates]
You may want to get a quote so you have a good indication of price as per hour performance to work done can vary greatly
Per page fees are less typical for programmed pages
$150.00 Per Database Table for Add/Update/Delete/Get/Search List [This is not an exact amount as complexity varies]

General guideline
Look at what work the individual or organisation has done, try to compare there work with other multiple other vendors to make comparisons and consider also the date of the work. It may be common that their older work may be at a lower quality than their more recent work as designers and developers tend to increase in ability over time.

Choose wisely with assistance if needed. Sometimes pay for a top brand but only get budget results. Additionally if you cut costs expect that the site may suffer consequence of such actions

Business Layer
Typically this involves languages such as ASP, PHP, Cold Fusion, Java Server pages, among others. Someone with more experience may be able to produce work at a faster time rate, but consider that their charges may be higher accordingly.

Presentation Layer
Design Implies commonly Graphics, HTML/XHTML [XHTML is more recent], and possibly some client Side JavaScript [For a variety of browsers] or VBScript [For Internet Explorer only]. There is a variety of issues concerning design such as good presentation, usability, sellability, support available for the intended audience. I would suggest seeking an expert opinion on this. At the medium level I think people make design errors. Even more common though is the beginner spectrum where people make errors in design that can impede the functionality of the site.

5. Payment Support
Credit Card Processing Online
$200 Setup
$50 / Month approx or more
This requires a payment gateway which is typically around $50 from experience and also requires a merchant account with your bank. I would suggest conducting an estimate of potential return on the investment if you wish to consider this option

Credit Card Processing Offline
Credit Card Processing typically requires merchant account from bank. You may be able to have the website email you CC details and process them. Please note that it is unadvisable to store credit card numbers online in a database for security reasons, data may become misplaced and it can create a security hazard. Likewise you should be run best practise security such as an up to date firewall and virus scanner.

6. Example Draught for ecommerce site

Per Life Cycle
$0200.00 Systems Analysis
$2000.00 Development & Design
$0200.00 Credit Card Processing Support
$2400.00 Sub Total - Site Life Cycle

Note that a sites life may typically be 2 years due to functionality or web standard changes.

Per ongoing Time Charge
$0038.00 Domain / Year
$0015.00 Hosting / Month
$0050.00 Online Credit Processing /Month
$0068.16 Sub Total - Fees per Month

Totals
$2400.00 Setup per Life Cycle
$1635.84 ongoing charges per life cycle
$4035.84 Total Site Life Cycle
+
$????.??? Your time [Initial Data Entry, Site Maintenance]

robo
03-09-2004, 08:13 AM
Whoa!
Could be an FAQ.
robo.

Greg S
03-09-2004, 01:24 PM
> Whoa!
> Could be an FAQ.
> robo.

Not sure I agree with all Captive's figures - now I'm not trying to advertise here, but I charge roughly $300 to set up a site, around $60 per month to maintain it. No other costs involved except bank fees to the customer (around $35 per month) and domain name.

Captive's figures seem over the top. I frequently hear of customers being quoted/charged thousands of dollars for something I do for a few hundred

Captive
03-09-2004, 01:33 PM
It is true that fees vary, you will also note that quality of work varies:

I wouldn't expect to pay $20,000 to buy a mercedes new typically

It's the same with websites, You get what you pay for

And actually from viewing in excess of 3500 web designer sites and compiling the professional quality ones I believe my prices are at the low end of professional.

There is also people out there who code pages $15/Hour and dont know how to design databases properly or maintain proper standards.

If you consider that it may cost $5,000-$10,000 alone to become skilled to a professional standard

I agree that prices will be cheaper, but consider that the experience, study or otherwise to make decent quality work is also an investment.

You go out there a look at the top web designers, see how many will do a professoinal tailor made ecommerce site for $300.00

Example Web Designer Listing:
http://www.creightonbrown.geek.nz/content/Links_webdesigners.asp

To summarise you get what you pay for

metla
03-09-2004, 01:44 PM
>>You go out there a look at the top web designers, see how many will do a professoinal tailor made ecommerce site for $300.00


mine was free.

Captive
03-09-2004, 01:52 PM
No offense mate, but it shows.

You compare your site to the likes of http://www.ascent.com then ask yourself if that would be free.

I didn't do ascent but what i am highlighting is with work you usually get what you pay for.

You run a computer store, you can get a 486 sometimes for free or $5.00. or you can spend money on a decent box. It's pretty obvious which one *generally* performs better.

Captive
03-09-2004, 01:53 PM
You might want to consider what some people offer

Giving you a script + a template might cost $150 or more. For professoinal quality ones there is X-Cart which ranges around the $1200.00 for a professional version + customisations and graphics

You use a script you will be bound to its applicability, such as complying to the way it has been coded and support and future improvements may be dictated by the licence ability or those either capable or approved to modify it.

I think people who are serious about their business will get something that suits their business model, and meets *their* needs.

You can buy a suit from a budget shop or get one designed to your needs, i can't say one option is always best.

Just consider though that $2,000 for a custom built site is cheap, it includes systems analysis, programming, validation and a lot more than people who go through and offer some script, put in a username and password for it slap on a template and say its an ecommerce solution which is cheaper and of the same standard.

In an ecommerce report from www.ecommerce.govt.nz it is highlighted that those that tend to spend more money tend to have better profits than those that spend less money. I believe part of this is the extra abilities which come with the cost such as more functionality, experience and other ramifcations of a professional service.

robo
03-09-2004, 01:59 PM
Let's not turn this into a debate of cost versus function. If something doesn't work, it's never cheap. Cost and function are not the only issues.
I thought the content was good, and prices didn't seem OTT.
People don't always want cheap, they don't always want rolls royce.
robo.

Greg S
03-09-2004, 02:01 PM
I can't disagree with Captives reasoning - I honestly couldn't even make a complex solution along the lines of Ascent, never mind give a price to make it. However the term "professional" should be used in it's proper context - my sites are professional, because they cost money to make and they make money for their owners. They're stylish, my customers and their customers like them, and nobody's had to outlay thousands. Because I use a free e-commerce solution doesn't mean it's cheap - it's just not expensive :D

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:01 PM
>> >>You go out there a look at the top web designers, see how many will do a professoinal tailor made ecommerce site for $300.00


>> mine was free.

You'll note i said professional web designer, or the equivelancy of, this means as there profession as opposed to a computer store owner or individual who makes a website. Sorry mate but i am trying to make it clear about profesional services as well, which differ from hobbyist servcies. You could get people who reach professional standards as a hobbyist, from my experience thus far though in examining others work i have generally almost always, no caclulated figure yet, found this to be the case

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:03 PM
I can't disagree with Captives reasoning - I honestly couldn't even make a complex solution along the lines of Ascent, never mind give a price to make it. However the term "professional" should be used in it's proper context - my sites are professional, because they cost money to make and they make money for their owners. They're stylish, my customers and their customers like them, and nobody's had to outlay thousands. Because I use a free e-commerce solution doesn't mean it's cheap - it's just not expensive


From my dictionary I utilise

cheap adj. relatively low in price or charging low prices"it would have been cheap at twice the price""inexpensive family restaurants"adj. embarrassingly stingySee bumSee brassy

Greg S
03-09-2004, 02:06 PM
Anyway, I'll still call Captive when i get a job that's too complex for me ;)

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:09 PM
Kewl, thanks for the kind gesture :-)

Sorry if I am being a bit of hard ass in this regards.

metla
03-09-2004, 02:10 PM
riiiiight.

Mine was deleloped and given to me by a proffesional web design business in Australia,if we had wanted it to look like ascent we could have easily.


Lmao.

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:11 PM
Let's not turn this into a debate of cost versus function. If something doesn't work, it's never cheap. Cost and function are not the only issues.
I thought the content was good, and prices didn't seem OTT.
People don't always want cheap, they don't always want rolls royce.
robo.


Good point. I think It's that case I was trying to say:
You get what you pay for.

At the same time though there is an exception where you might get ripped off as well, although by being careful by gettings others opinions etc it might help reduce that.

Fair call robo

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:17 PM
>> riiiiight.

>> Mine was deleloped and given to me by a proffesional web design business in Australia,if we had wanted it to look like ascent we could have easily.


>> Lmao.

Obviously very professional, as they gave it to you for free.

professional adj. characteristic of or befitting a profession or one engaged in a profession"professional conduct""professional ethics""a thoroughly professional performance"adj. of or relating to a profession"we need professional advice""professional training""professional equipment for his new office"adj. of or relating to or suitable as a profession"professional organizations""a professional field such as law"adj. engaged in by members of a profession"professional occupations include medicine and the law and teaching"[person] n. a person engaged in one of the learned professions[person] n. an athlete who plays for payadj. engaged in a profession or engaging in as a profession or means of livelihood"the professional man or woman possesses distinctive qualifications""began her professional career after the Olympics""professional theater""professional football""a professional cook""professional actors and athletes"

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:19 PM
I think you guys might want to argue against it....

I will restate, you pay for a service you get the service that goes with the bill. If you pay a small fee, you get a small amount of service, bar exceptions of abnormality.

Greg S
03-09-2004, 02:24 PM
>bar exceptions of abnormality.

Ok, I'm abnormal. My missus tells me that too! :D

robo
03-09-2004, 02:26 PM
C'mon, let it go.

Yes, something can be professional but free (like US lawyers that do "pro bono" work). Something can cost money but be amateur (don't get me started on that one).

The big problem is the really expensive website that looks like it's been hit by a bus and sucks. Like maybe the new bankdirect site where you hit TAB after keying in your customer number and you go anywhere but the password field. There are tons of examples out there.

This thread has got me thinking about my website again, though.
robo.

metla
03-09-2004, 02:29 PM
>Obviously very professional, as they gave it to you for free.

Hers an idea,stop making assuptions and you won't put youur foot in it.

I worked for the company involved for 3 months developing a cluster of 1500 pages,A project that was meant to have made a retail yellow pages type set-up.The project eventually sunk due to friction among the investors.

My site was developed as the template for a product to be used to sell the companies services,and has succesfully generated many many thousands of dollars for the ceator who has based multiple sites off it.

The site is all custom coded and runs off a database,without the product images the site fits on a floppy,it tracks all orders,fires off emails and has custom pages for adding stock.

On top of that every detail of my site was planned to give the exact impression that it does,It was not meant to look at all like ascent but it has all the capabilites.



Eat some pie.

metla
03-09-2004, 02:30 PM
See what happens when i get going,spelling mistakes everywhere.

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:34 PM
I'll just leave it at the point you get you pay for, otherwise I am going to be here arguing so you're right I should let it go.

What is your website address btw?

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:38 PM
and yeah you are right, some people do work for free as samples or various other cases, but i think those are exceptions myself.... you are right though i should be allowing for those as well.


To be honest though i think 90% of web designers i have looked at in terms of their quality is low, perhaps in my opinion

Captive
03-09-2004, 02:43 PM
ROBO

By the way i think you should email the bank and ask them to fix the tab order ;-)

i had a similar problem with www.iserve.co.nz when you logged into the admin console it would go:

Username
Submit

But I asked them to fix it and it now goes

Username
Password
Submit

Website feedback may fix the problem, assuming you get a caring maintenance team :-)

Rob99
03-09-2004, 03:05 PM
Dont mean to but in but I find metla's website much more use full than this (http://sal.neoburn.net/imagef1/files/bad_website.jpg), it would apear to me that maybe Ascent are the suckers here. After viewing pages like Ascent I come away feeling sorry for them if they paid for it. Maybe it was free to, thus the lack of content.

metla
03-09-2004, 03:45 PM
lmao,that site is mostly Flash,i would not accept it if it was free.

I hardly think its a good exaple of anything.

Captive
03-09-2004, 03:47 PM
Oh did I put the .com? I meant http://www.ascent.co.nz sorry bad habit

Captive
03-09-2004, 03:48 PM
And if you tell me its better than that one I would seriously question your opinion

Greg S
03-09-2004, 03:50 PM
> Oh did I put the .com? I meant
> [url=http://www.ascent.co.nz]http://www.ascent.co.nz[/
> rl] sorry bad habit


hehe I normally make the opposite mistake

Captive
03-09-2004, 03:54 PM
I am surprised also that someone who has an ecommerce site for computer etailing would have not known the correct site, with Ascent being one of the leading offerings in New Zealand and by my own definition one of the ones to use as a marker for quality

metla
03-09-2004, 03:55 PM
Personally im no fan of ascents site,if anything its cluttered and sprawling all at the same time,and its nothing great to look at.

It works well enough though and its not as heainous as the version they used to have.


Nothing to get excited about though.

metla
03-09-2004, 03:57 PM
> I am surprised also that someone who has an ecommerce
> site for computer etailing would have not known the
> correct site, with Ascent being one of the leading
> offerings in New Zealand and by my own definition one
> of the ones to use as a marker for quality



Sigh,

Captive
03-09-2004, 03:59 PM
And how many people would put their own wallet on the line for someone elses gain?

Captive
03-09-2004, 04:28 PM
I am going to start a new thread with an issue i have just theorised on an associated topic, i will post the link in here shortly

Rob99
03-09-2004, 04:42 PM
Captive what is technically wrong with metla's site? I think it works better than a lot of small business websites.
Is it just the color you dont like?
Please inform me as I am keen to learn, and I would hate to make mistakes, that someone with more experience would'nt over look.

Captive
03-09-2004, 04:44 PM
Some of Metla's statements when combined with my own traing of thought led me to start a thread on determining computer repairs best standards

http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=51021

Captive
03-09-2004, 04:50 PM
Captive what is technically wrong with metla's site? I think it works better than a lot of small business websites.
Is it just the colour you donít like?
Please inform me as I am keen to learn, and I would hate to make mistakes, that someone with more experience wouldnít over look.

Hey again rob :-)

I haven't compiled an exact list at present, i may consider doing so later... i have experienced before though various companies being offended when reports are given as it questions their standing and ability to perform so while i have done this before i try to avoid it now as people can generally say your wrong or not want to admit to their own inadequacies. I myself am not perfect either, but at least i will admit to it

Rob99
03-09-2004, 04:50 PM
Captive what is technically wrong with metla's site? I think it works better than a lot of small business websites.
Is it just the color you dont like?
Please inform me as I am keen to learn, and I would hate to make mistakes, that someone with more experience would'nt over look.

theother1
03-09-2004, 05:22 PM
Well it seems mejobloggs got all the information he asked for and hasn't been seen since page one. There seems to be quite a divergence of opinion here. Keep at it guys, most entertaining.
All we need is someone to get abusive and this thread will get closed down too.
By the way what is wrong with Metlas site? doesn't it do what he wants?

Pete O\'Neil
03-09-2004, 05:36 PM
I also have to say i think Metla's site is perfectly fine, its far better than alot of websites ive seen. It loads quickly, its uncluttered and the relevant infomation is easy to read and access.

It might not have all the flashy bells and whistles than large companies have but those sites are also often impossible to read and navigate. Reminds me of a something a now famous American President said "KISS - keep it simple stupid". At the end of the day the majority of people arent brain surgeons or web designers they dont care how "fly" or "jiggy" a website is. A bussiness website is there to do a job and in my opinion Metla's does it well.

Captive
03-09-2004, 05:47 PM
I guess in this you can say everyone will have an opinion.

We may try to reach a common ground but there may be none in a variety of variable occruances.

When we analyse a system of reality certain assumptions are made as to functioning, however due to the logical computational variance and the lack of standarisation of thoughts it's quite possible there is no universal truth or standard. But then that is an assumption, which i think is right and others may disagree with.

I can't say how you should have your opinion i have mine, at a unit level, and various multiple unit instances will have this such as a variety of professionals or other unit or units of measure.

The point i was making earlier, and my main intended one, is that generally you get what you pay for, I believe rob highlighted there is exceptions to this e.g. pro bono work, or a variety of exceptions, but that was the intent i want to focus on. I don't really want to get into tearing a site to bits but highlight that as my main objective i wish to state.

Truth be known from a variety of angles its quite possible to find problems pretty much in anything with the imperfections of life, Notably in my own work as well, sometimes though i guess we try and move a step forward, and sometimes we suceed while others we do not, although exact specifics will vary this is the example i am highlighting

metla
03-09-2004, 05:54 PM
>>I haven't compiled an exact list at present, i may consider doing so later... i have experienced before though various companies being offended when reports are given as it questions their standing and ability to perform so while i have done this before i try to avoid it now as people can generally say your wrong or not want to admit to their own inadequacies. I myself am not perfect either, but at least i will admit to it

Don't waste your time, You haven't managed to say anything to gives any creedence to your opinion yet, and Iím not surprised people get offended by your criticisms, who exactly do you think you are?

Apart from an out of work web designer that is.

Captive
03-09-2004, 06:16 PM
Someone who knows i don't have to kiss someone arse and has my own opinion.

Lets cut to the chase here: you run the site, you stand to gain from the site, don't tell me you have conflicting interests and in all likelyhood will defend your site for your own purposes and be against me because i criticized your work. I said no offense mate, but really you took offense and now your trying to defend what you think is right and therefore is to attack me.

You can think your good if you want, feel welcome to, some other people might think that too. Doesn't mean everyone will think your sites very good or even good at all.

I agree your site isnt one of the worst , but i dont see anyone claiming is one of the best either, do you?

and let's not forget some people have their own opinions which may not reach various standards which are established e.g. they may think for $40/Hour your going to do the best repair job, because it wasnt the worst.

I could find an opinion now of some of the bad sites out there based on various standards that people with less experience will claim is fine or good.

There is people around that probably have surfed bugger all or have very little prfessional experience in some cases yet know whats best at web design and or ecommerce.

Captive
03-09-2004, 06:18 PM
by that i mean you do have conflicting interests, it's clear, you run the site, you stand to gain from its benefit, ergo you probably dont want to hear its bad and will defend it.

metla
03-09-2004, 06:20 PM
If i had the energy i would mock you,but i guess you get a lot of that anyway.

Good luck with your endeavers.

mejobloggs
03-09-2004, 06:21 PM
> Well it seems mejobloggs got all the information he
> asked for and hasn't been seen since page one.

Yes, well, there is this big story behind that....

Aliens took me to mars, I spent a day or so there. No, wait. I think I went to school.

Thanks for all that stuff guys. I have not read it all yet, but getting there. Maybe I should pay someone if I cant figure it out.

Captive, your being a bit, um, well. I was very critical of your site, but I managed to keep that to myself. But thank you very very much for your help.

Captive
03-09-2004, 06:26 PM
Oh if you want to say the feedback go ahead.

If its good kewl, but it isnt

if its bad oh well it may hurt, but it may hurt me more by not knowing so if you could say that would be good. thank you.

or if you dont want to say it here try creighton@creightonbrown.geek.nz if you want to, that would be kewl too if you dont think it should be said in the forum.

PS i hope the info helps, i could probably have tried to plan it more and done a better outline, but i did only spend like an hour on it so it was just a start.

I noticed the post was pretty old, What hapened with it before the thread started again?

Captive
03-09-2004, 06:27 PM
Personally i don't think insuling people is a good solution.

I do i sometimes as well unfortunately but ideally for good natured purposes its best avoided.

Sorry mate if i hurt your feelings.

Captive
03-09-2004, 06:28 PM
oops thats *so do i sometimes* etc

robo
03-09-2004, 10:08 PM
Can we just ease back on the invective and help people with problems?
robo.

Captive
03-09-2004, 10:13 PM
probably why the thread has come to a halt

Rob99
03-09-2004, 11:26 PM
Why wont you answer my question.

What is technically wrong with metla's site?
Please name one thing.
Is it just the color you dont like?
Dont say just a few alt tags or anything like that.

The difference as I see it between metla and ascent is the amount of stuff for sale, php v asp and 2 points on the google page rank.

Captive
03-09-2004, 11:30 PM
I dont want to start a major argument, because i bet that will happen.

Elephant
03-09-2004, 11:41 PM
> I am trying to set up an online shop, where people
> can buy things, and pay by credit card, and
> securely.
>
> How would I go about this, and what would I need? How
> much would it cost to set up?

I have a document in Word 2003 format at the moment that I found quite interesting.. This explains web sites and how to set them up and has references to free hosting.

I don't think that this will get you an online shop as it were but it will make you think about content and design.

If you want to know more then Email me on elephant (at) lakes net nz.

I can send this document in Word, Text or RTF format.

Same applies to any other PressF1 users.

metla
03-09-2004, 11:53 PM
> Why wont you answer my question.
>
> What is technically wrong with metla's site?
> Please name one thing.
> Is it just the color you dont like?
> Dont say just a few alt tags or anything like that.
>
> The difference as I see it between metla and ascent
> is the amount of stuff for sale, php v asp and 2
> points on the google page rank.



I think he covered it with...

When we analyse a system of reality certain assumptions are made as to functioning, however due to the logical computational variance and the lack of standarisation of thoughts it's quite possible there is no universal truth or standard. But then that is an assumption, which i think is right and others may disagree with...



In other words he's a hobbiest cut off from sunlight for to long,with no results from his many years of dedication to his personal site he has taken to intensive deconstruction of sites out there in the real world,there by affirming his long held belief of superority.


Its pretty obvious that he will continue to fail in his chosen feild.

Rob99
04-09-2004, 12:24 AM
Thanks for the translation, if I could only find my bulshi+ glasses I might be able to understand some of that other cr@p he's been working on.

Elephant
04-09-2004, 12:30 AM
> > Why wont you answer my question.
> >
> > What is technically wrong with metla's site?
> > Please name one thing.
> > Is it just the color you dont like?
> > Dont say just a few alt tags or anything like
> that.
> >
> > The difference as I see it between metla and
> ascent
> > is the amount of stuff for sale, php v asp and 2
> > points on the google page rank.
Nothing wrong with your site as I see it. So long as it works for you then that's fine by me.

> I think he covered it with...
Heaps of extraneous words deleted below to save bandwidth.

While you and I have had differences in the past can we please forget these?

This does not mean to say that if I actually disagree I should not say so.

Must think about using Word and Theasurus and Grammer checker and Spell checker to complicate matters even further.

Captive
04-09-2004, 12:36 AM
I will be forwarding this thread to the site admin regarding it being labelled bullshit as a defamatory remark.

I didnt come here to start personal attacks, which is what is starting to eventuate and i do not intend ideally in entering into such as i believe in terms of what the founders of Eq established from what books i have read plus website investigation they may have negative ramifications.

I would advise that no personal attacks are entered into.

thank you.

Captive
04-09-2004, 12:43 AM
Just so its clear i sent the following to the site admin

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey,



I just wanted to point out this thread, and I sort of indicated in the message thread that I didnít think abusive conduct was appropriate. By saying I would contact you hopefully it will think about ramifications of what they state.



I do feel that stating my comments are bullshit is not the case, I believe though that some people may in some senses have lower perceptive abilities and when pressed may argue as best they can, for some this may mean remarks such as stating insults or otherwise.



The message thread is: http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=50983&start=60&msRange=15



At this stage I have only been told my statements are bullshit, which I do not agree with, I will keep you informed if it worsens, but as stated above maybe they will think more about the consequences.



Thank you for your time.

metla
04-09-2004, 12:45 AM
>>While you and I have had differences in the past can we please forget these?

Yes.

I decided not to continue with the harsh treatment after the collapse of the thread were you were thanked for providing EffiieC with the ram and advice,the fact we view nearly everything from a different point of logic shouldnt be reflected in terse words.

I would hope that your lack of posts since then is not my fault,and hope to see your continued presence in the future.

Regards

Josh.

metla
04-09-2004, 12:47 AM
Captive,shut up,Your credibility is zero.

Rob99
04-09-2004, 12:51 AM
This is a help forum.

You mentioned certain things.

I asked a few times for clarification.

You never provided me with an answer, just a limp excuse.

I never labelled any thing apart from my glasses as bullshit.

I did label some of your other work as crap tho, so I apologise.

Captive
04-09-2004, 12:52 AM
I dont actually think you have the right to tell me to shut up, under what i would consider normal law standards it is my choice to speak in this regard.

Biggles
04-09-2004, 12:58 AM
I think we'll wrap it up there gents. Go get some sleep.