PDA

View Full Version : spelling errors,



Earnie Moore
25-08-2004, 08:00 AM
the spelling chequer is knot worken today. I noticed on another posting,

well bugger me, I tell lies again, it worked this time, but on my last posting I spelt negative & negitive and they both went through, and then there was another word my word processor, spell checker picked up that the F1 did not find.

It might intermittant.

paulw
25-08-2004, 08:15 AM
It's now integrated into the telco's SMS spell checker.. :-)

Terry Porritt
25-08-2004, 08:37 AM
Yes, but who compiles the spelling checker??????????

What can you expect with the level of education today?

For 'basics' it is worse than when my Grandmother went to a working class school in the depths of Birmingham in the 1880s, and left at the age of 13, no kidding :)

Murray P
25-08-2004, 09:40 AM
It's about the most incompetent thing on this forum but it refuses to learn or improve in any way. It has been a naturalised Kiwi for over two years now but it still insists on spelling ....ise as ...ize, ...que as ...ck ....our as ...or, etc, and has no technical savvy at all. You would think that Jive would at the least have a British English version to get us close to comprehensible. But no, now it can't even understand itself, it's going psycho on us.

I would happily give it counseling if that would help, assuming it is a text file stored on the data base, if someone wants to send it to me with some basic instructions.

Cheers Murray P

Murray P
25-08-2004, 09:47 AM
Hmm, just checked the Jive website. English UK is available. That would be a start would it not. I wonder if isuch terms as CPU, RAM, PC, etc, could be added.

Cheers Murray P

paulw
25-08-2004, 11:14 AM
Why on earth do you want to use the difficult and convaluted British english system for..??

Chris Randal
25-08-2004, 11:18 AM
Convoluted

Billy T
25-08-2004, 11:23 AM
>Why on earth do you want to use the difficult and convaluted British english system for..??

To learn how to spell convoluted. :^O

No offense intended Paul, but the opportunity was just too good to let go!

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :D

paulw
25-08-2004, 01:06 PM
Hi Billy.

It was too good ;-)

Laura
26-08-2004, 06:21 AM
Well, I'm gobsmacked.
You say there's a spellcheck on this website?
Can't say I've noticed it myself: certainly not in some of the posts....
Maybe it should be placed more conspicuously?

Jen C
26-08-2004, 07:48 AM
> Well, I'm gobsmacked.
> You say there's a spellcheck on this website?
> Can't say I've noticed it myself: certainly not in
> some of the posts....
> Maybe it should be placed more conspicuously?

It is placed pretty conspicuously :D

It is right under the "Your Reply" dialog box, along side the Preview, Post Message and Cancel buttons. Don't get too excited about it though, what it thinks is incorrectly spelt (very common computer terms) and what it suggests as the correction, can be quite amusing. :p

For example, in your post you have three incorrectly spelt words according to the spell checker :
gobsmacked = it suggests obstacle
spellchecker = it suggests spell
website = it suggests webster

If you put NZ in your post, it wants to correct it to nazi or unzip :O

If you have a slow internet connection, it does take a bit of time for each "mis-spelt" word to have a correction suggested (which you can ignore) especially if your post is not brief. So you can't really blame people for not really using it much. If you know your spelling is rather shocking, you can always compose your post in Word and use the more friendly and sensible spell checker in that, and then copy it into your reply box.

It would be nice however, to have the spell checker database updated to a more appropriate selection for a technical forum board. But all these things take time and money ...

Murray P
26-08-2004, 10:50 AM
> It would be nice however, to have the spell checker
> database updated to a more appropriate selection for
> a technical forum board. But all these things take
> time and money ...

A quick look at the Jive Software forum section suggests to me that the English UK spell checker version is available for free, it also seems to use a custom.dic in which case a copy and paste from a English NZ custom.dic should be possible or even one from Open Office with Maori words included.

Maybe it's not that simple, any info to the contrary.

Cheers Murray P

whiskeytangofoxtrot
26-08-2004, 11:02 AM
> Can't say I've noticed it myself: certainly not in
> some of the posts....

Just because it's there doesn't mean it has to be used... it'd be great if it also corrected the terrible english (or excuses for it) often seen around here.

icyred
26-08-2004, 11:15 AM
>>
> If
> you know your spelling is rather shocking, you can
> always compose your post in Word and use the more
> friendly and sensible spell checker in that, and then
> copy it into your reply box.
1)If your spelling was shocking, would you necessarily know that it is ?
2)If that's the way you always spell it, and you persist in spelling it that way despite all evidence to the contrary, the use of a spell-checker obviously won't interest you and you will persist in inflicting your primary-school-level spelling on the rest of us (better stop there or I'll be taken as criticising somebody ;\ )

cheers

icy

Laura
26-08-2004, 10:44 PM
lol, Jen
I see what you mean.
And we certainly don't want any unzipped nazis on this webster...

Vince
26-08-2004, 11:49 PM
I raised this issue a few weeks ago because I think the spell checker would be used more if it didn't throw up so many false positives. Vince
Like "Vince" for instance

Murray P
27-08-2004, 01:24 AM
It would be nice to know what admin think of this issue, BB, robo, Mary, yoohoo!

Cheers Murray P

Billy T
27-08-2004, 09:49 AM
In the interim, try composing posts as text files in your normal WP, spell (and grammar) check using your "educated" NZ English spell checker then cut and paste into PF1.

It saves time on-line, it is easier than composing in the rather small PF1 text box, you can check previous or current posts on PF1 without accidentally losing your labour of love (you can never regain the exact-same turn of phrase you used in your original composition) and you can check for replies that might supersede your effort just before posting.

Make a link to your PF1 text document on your desktop so that you can open it quickly on demand, and in case you wondered why I suggested cutting rather than copying, cutting the text leaves your template clear and ready for use for the next post.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :|

whiskeytangofoxtrot
27-08-2004, 10:36 AM
> In the interim, try composing posts as text files in
> your normal WP, spell (and grammar) check using your
> "educated" NZ English spell checker then cut and
> paste into PF1.

Already been covered.

Billy T
27-08-2004, 12:34 PM
Oh really WTF?

So why waste your time telling everybody, if not to be a pointless niggler?

Actually the purpose of my post was to provide the same info as Jen, but to add the desktop link to template concept which makes it so much easier and more convenient to do. Saves referring everybody back to the earlier post if combined into one.

I'm sure Jen won't mind.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :|

whiskeytangofoxtrot
27-08-2004, 01:11 PM
> Oh really WTF?
>
> So why waste your time telling everybody, if not to
> be a pointless niggler?

To help instil the value of reading a thread.

Rob99
27-08-2004, 01:40 PM
>> Oh really WTF?
>>
>> So why waste your time telling everybody, if not to
>> be a pointless niggler?

>To help instil the value of reading a thread.
>>> in the direction of assist inculcate the value of interpretation a yarn.

You can also use synonyms to make you look inteligent as I did

Chris Randal
27-08-2004, 01:59 PM
> To help instil the value of reading a thread.

Or post-padding perhaps? :D

Spencer
27-08-2004, 06:19 PM
You know you really are a total prat whiskey. I haven't been here long but I read the posts most days and you stand out as the nastiest most antagonistic and aggressive clot currently in residence. Nobody will ever match up to your high ideals. Not even you, so whats your big thing with Billys posts? You secretly in love with him or something?

Spence

Vince
27-08-2004, 06:25 PM
Good one, Spencer. Vince :D

beetle
28-08-2004, 06:28 PM
Depends all on the Phonetics of the word doesnt it?
spelling and how you say a word do not always go together as i recall.

but yes the spell checker here is just a little bit laborious?

and who seems to have spare time for that?

beetle

Misty
28-08-2004, 07:56 PM
For me spelling used to be hugely (HUGELY !) important until 2-3 years ago. It was the way I was brought up and I pride myself (still do) on my spelling. Then I came to realise that it is not all that crucial, the very most important thing is that people understand what others are saying.

The main turning point for me was Bill Bryson's book "The Mother Tongue" about the evolution of the English language. It is simply an amazing book to read ( and re-read, and re-read). The contribution to the English language by Shakespeare is amazing. No words and phrases have their beginnings from one individual than Shakespeare by light years. He spelt his own name of Shakespeare in about seventeen different ways ( not sure of the quoted number and could go up and check -- but then is it so important ?). Bill Bryson really gives the picture of how the language is evolving and continues to evolve.

Was impressed that Billy T spelt "supersede" correctly. It is an odd one that foxes a lot of people !

No matter how much it may hurt, the young people will continue to evolve the language in ways that we may not appreciate - but tough luck !! - we did it to our parents too.

The young generation will be upset when the next generation will do the same - guaranteed.

Misty :D

Terry Porritt
28-08-2004, 10:02 PM
>>.... Then I came to realise that it is not all that crucial, the very most important thing is that people understand what others are saying.

Hmm... I neither understand what many younger people are actually trying to say, nor do I understand what it is they are trying to write, especially on this forum. :)

One should not have to struggle and strain to try to decipher almost unintelligible spelling and grammatical construction.

Unfortunately the present school system seems to be based on the premise that anything goes just as long as one can be understood more or less, and that it is now in the too hard basket to expect children to have spelling and sentence construction skills beyond that of a 6 or 7 year old of say 50 years ago.

When you add to that the widespread mispronunciation of vowel sounds, and I do not mean not accent, eg cheer and chair, pin and pen, Ellis and Alice etc, then for many young New zealanders to be understood by the rest of the English speaking world, must rank as the Eigth Wonder :D

icyred
28-08-2004, 11:34 PM
>Eigth Wonder

you mean eighth???? (sorry TP, cheap shot, but I couldn't resist it!!!!;\)

cheers

icy

andrew93
28-08-2004, 11:50 PM
> When you add to that the widespread
> mispronunciation of vowel sounds, and I do
> not mean not accent, eg cheer and chair, pin and
> pen, Ellis and Alice etc, then for many young New
> zealanders to be understood by the rest of the
> English speaking world, must rank as the Eigth Wonder

:^O

BTW, keep it cool Billy & WTF or this thread may go the way of the other threads attacked by kiki's fishy persona (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/search.jsp?search=true&q=&date=any&user=%27%29%3B+%2F%2F--%3E&range=10) for bad spelling - there are some good points here and IMHO it would be interesting to see where this thread heads.

Motto for those whose native language isn't their strongest : Bad spelers of the world untie!

:D

beetle
28-08-2004, 11:57 PM
:^O

oh you are funny......

cereally now.:p

beetle

Laura
28-08-2004, 11:58 PM
I was determined to resist adding my tuppenceworth to this thread.

(This former journalist has been tempted into pedantry often enough for the time being.)

But I've just found the most wonderful quote from the entertaining political journalist Simon Hoggart in *The Guardian*.

And Oh, how I wish I'd written it myself...

After describing the dismal grammatical efforts of one MP, he wrote:
*And the English language slunk through its own back door and drew the curtains.*

andrew93
29-08-2004, 12:06 AM
thanks for the quote Laura, Google turned up this (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/commons/comment/0,9236,1260857,00.html) article - I'm only part way through reading it and can't hold back the laughter so thought I would share it with the rest of PF1.

KingWave
29-08-2004, 12:29 AM
People with spelling errors deserve the ! (http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/fsquad5.jpg)

Elephant
29-08-2004, 12:31 AM
> >>.... Then I came to realize that it is not all that
> crucial, the very most important thing is that people
> understand what others are saying.
I agree there in one sense. Communication is really important. Lack of communication leads to misunderstandings for one thing. Lack of communication has, and normally will, lead to a breakup of a marriage or other relationships. The english language will evolve in the course of events.

For example the word "Computer" was not about when Shakespeare wrote therefore I would not expect anything written by "The Bard of Avon" to include this word.


> Hmm... I neither understand what many younger
> people are actually trying to say, nor do I
> understand what it is they are trying to write,
> especially on this forum. :)

I can accept typos like "Teh" for "The" from time to time. Why not? I have done that myself. When, however, we get every "the" in a post as "teh" it means that the person posting has a problem or wants to make a point maybe.

The English language in my humble opinion changes to the point where words which were used when I was at school to mean one thing have an entirely different meaning today.

For example the word "gay" in books written by P.G.Wodehouse have an entirely different meaning to the meaning assigned today.
>
> One should not have to struggle and strain to try to
> decipher almost unintelligible spelling and
> grammatical construction.
Probably true.

> Unfortunately the present school system seems to be
> based on the premise that anything goes just as long
> as one can be understood more or less, and
> that it is now in the too hard basket to expect
> children to have spelling and sentence construction
> skills beyond that of a 6 or 7 year old of say 50
> years ago.
>
> When you add to that the widespread
> mispronunciation of vowel sounds, and I do
> not mean not accent, eg cheer and chair, pin and
> pen, Ellis and Alice etc, then for many young New
> zealanders to be understood by the rest of the
> English speaking world, must rank as the Eigth Wonder
> :D
Did you mean "Eigtht Wonder" I wonder?

Once upon a time this was called comprehension. Sadly this does not seem to be taught in schools any more. We used to get given a piece of prose and were told to read it. Later we were asked questions to see if we actually received the message the Author was giving.

Interpretation is another thing as well is it not? There is a whole industry called lawyers who interpret what Parliament actually meant when a new set of laws are drafted. What Parliament means and what actually happens after Judges and Magistrates rule in Court may be two or more different things.

drb1
29-08-2004, 03:02 AM
>
> Once upon a time this was called comprehension. Sadly
> this does not seem to be taught in schools any more.
> We used to get given a piece of prose and were told
> to read it. Later we were asked questions to see if
> we actually received the message the Author was
> giving.
>
> Interpretation is another thing as well is it not?
> There is a whole industry called lawyers who
> interpret what Parliament actually meant when a new
> set of laws are drafted. What Parliament means and
> what actually happens after Judges and Magistrates
> rule in Court may be two or more different things.

There was also another called punctuation. Young lady in our extended family recently graduated law With “Hons” complained bitterly at dinner the other night about the low standard of: Grammar Spelling and Punctuation in Wellington Govt Dept’s.

Why is this relevant, where the: Comma, Full stop, or Colon is placed can make or break a case. Loosing ones liberty to bad: Punctuation, Spelling, or even Grammar is not funny.

zqwerty
29-08-2004, 03:35 AM
My post from another thread:

The point of language is to communicate, and whilst I agree that poor spelling is an annoyance it really isn't very important just as long as the meaning is conveyed:

"Aoccdrnig to rseearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe."

Getting obsessive compulsive about spelling is a waste of energy.

"The pedant in his pidgeonhole playing tiddly-winks with footnotes."

Terry Porritt
29-08-2004, 11:23 AM
:) :)>>>Did you mean "Eigtht Wonder" I wonder?

No Jumbo, I didnt , I meant Eighth Wonder.



> People with spelling errors deserve the
> ! (http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/fsqua
> 5.jpg)

I like that, that's what they do to the messenger when he can neither speak nor write intelligibly :)

Now pin back your lugholes and listen to this, or rather, read this selective quote from Mondays Dominion Post:

"The British Home Office has decided that New Zealanders need to prove sufficient English language knowledge before they can get a British passport.
........Margaret Maclagan, senior lecturer in the Department of Communication Disorders at Canterbury University, says New Zealand English is further from the mother tongue than comparable dialects such as Australian. She says youing New Zealanders fail to distinguish between cheer and chair, beer and bear, ear and air."

Growly
29-08-2004, 11:26 AM
I hypocritically hate spelling mistakes in posts - but I make them alot myself. On purpose, ofcourse.

As far the standard of education these days - it sux.

Terry Porritt
29-08-2004, 11:27 AM
Oh dear, quoting KingWave didnt work, lets try again:

> People with spelling errors deserve the ! (http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/fsquad5.jpg)

Laura
29-08-2004, 12:23 PM
andrew 93:
And when you got to the END of that article, you discovered where I found my quote...

Billy T
29-08-2004, 12:26 PM
I guess I'm old-fashioned.:|

To me, accurate spelling and punctuation, along with reasonable adherence to the rules of grammar is a matter of standards, and more importantly, pride. It is a personal thing to me but if I just allowed my posts or any other documents I write to stand exactly as they emerge from my two flying fingers, typos and all, I would be mortally embarrassed to have people read them like that and think that was the best I could do, or that I didn't know better.

I make no criticism of those for whom English is a second language, I admire their adaptation and skill, but native-born English speakers should be able to do a little better than some of the efforts we see. As an national examiner for many years in my particular discipline, I never once penalised a candidate for poor spelling, but if their grammar or punctuation made their intended meaning unclear, I could not allocate the marks. It was not for me to second-guess their intent.

I occasionally have to point out to my children that a sentence they have written has been rendered meaningless by errors in grammar and construction (that is, when my opinion is asked for!) and they are gradually learning that accuracy of expression can indeed be very important to their future. In business those grammatical, punctuation and spelling errors can be the source of litigation, so yes, spelling and punctuation do matter. When one gets into a dispute where intent is unclear and the parties are divided, the words mean exactly what they say, no more and no less. Intent lies within the mind of the writer, so courts can only determine the meaning of the words as written.

Yes, language is dynamic and continues to evolve through common usage. However, IMHO that evolution is via the adoption of new words and meanings more often than through variations in grammar, punctuation or spelling.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

andrew93
29-08-2004, 12:39 PM
Well put Billy and some classic examples :

What is that in the road ahead?
What is that in the road, a head?

Woman without man, is nothing.
Woman : without, man is nothing.

What is this thing called love?
What is this thing called, love?

Rob99
29-08-2004, 12:51 PM
Anyone noticed this subject looks as thou its spelt "spellinq errors," on the main page. Whats up withe bold underlining links.

Jim B
29-08-2004, 01:24 PM
> I guess I'm old-fashioned.:|

You might be, but the grammar and spelling in your posts is the mark of an educated and intelligent person as distinct from some of the posts on this forum.

I completely agree with your comments Billy T and wish I could have expressed them as clearly myself.

Anyone who says spelling is not important is showing complete ignorance of the real world.
If you go for a job interview and have to complete some written questions and the result is bad grammar and spelling the perception is that you are uneducated, unintelligent or just lazy.

Whether this is true or not is irrelevant as first impressions are very important and the person that can read, write and spell in a reasonably accurate and comprehensible manner will be perceived as more educated and informed then someone who can't put a sentence together correctly without major spelling mistakes.

There are some on this forum who can't even be bothered to start sentences with a capital letter and this in my opinion is just a "who cares" attitude which generally shows up in other things that they do as well.

Accuracy and attention to detail are very important whatever job you are doing and bad grammar and spelling just indicates to everyone that you are not concerned about these details or care enough to make an effort to correct mistakes.

metla
29-08-2004, 01:50 PM
To all those who think they make a point by correcting spelling....




Meh....who cares.

Find something better to spend effort on, rather then the business of others.

This forum and day-to-day goings on are not a job interview, and have scant relevance to the "real world".

By all means those that care should maintain their own standards, but learn to suck it in when it comes to other people.

Its not appreciated and unwarranted, its about as relevant as stopping someone in the street and berating them over they way they dress.

Bad manners all around and pointless, You do not have the god given right to define to anyone what exactly the English language is, its far bigger then you, people like you or your efforts to lock everyone else into your narrow minded view of the world.

Jim B
29-08-2004, 02:21 PM
Well done metla.

Nice post, well constructed and good spelling.

I see you have been listening and taken all the advice on board.

Aim for perfection in everything you do, nothing is too trivial.
If it is not perfect then you have done your best and that is all anyone can ask of you.

metla
29-08-2004, 02:40 PM
Ebb and flow.…

No need to regiment the mind to such a degree as to think that those that have different ideals are less intelligent.

icyred
29-08-2004, 02:42 PM
well said that man !!!!!!

I'm reminded of a quote (don't know who said it )

"For want of a letter, a word was lost.
For want of a word, the message was lost.
For want of a message, a life was lost.”

icy

Spencer
29-08-2004, 04:24 PM
I rather think you have completely and utterly missed the point Metla. Nobody was correcting spelling or worrying about the quality of posts on PF1. They have been debating the importance of paying attention to spelling and grammar, and the concurrent need to have standards in education and business. That is how I read it anyway.

It is not the careful people who end up "sucking it" as you so eloquently suggested, it is the careless people who make mistakes that cost them money who end up "sucking it" big time.

Given the choice of dealing with a person who corresponds in reasonable English and has a range of expression that goes a little beyond "Meh", and somebody who displays a casual attitude to correspondence, most businesses will minimise their risk and go for one that seems able to speak and write English.

However, it is a free world and I would not deny you the right to suck it as hard and as often as you choose, just don't try to tell the rest of us what we can discuss in an OT thread. Caring and standards are synonymous. Neither can exist without the other.

Spencer

Laura
29-08-2004, 04:42 PM
icy
The last lines we learnt at school were:
For want of a message, the battle was lost.
For want of the battle, the country was lost.

(And I don't know who wrote it either. Time for some Googling)

drb1
29-08-2004, 04:43 PM
> Well put Billy and some classic examples :
>
> What is that in the road ahead?
> What is that in the road, a head?
>
> Woman without man, is nothing.
> Woman : without, man is nothing.
>
> What is this thing called love?
> What is this thing called, love?


The above is exactly what I ment here.

There was also another called punctuation. Young lady

Ect

Loosing ones liberty to bad: Punctuation, Spelling, or even Grammar is not funny.

Rob99
29-08-2004, 04:46 PM
Nails, Kingdoms and Chaos!

The "Chaos Theory" contradicts reason, in fact it is somewhat of an oxymoron!

The "Chaos Theory" leads us to believe that a definitive knowledge about incomprehensible phenomena can lead us to unstable behavior that occurs when the state of the system uses no regular values!

Interesting questions can arise concerning why chaos has recently been noticed! Can the answer be given by the following folklore?

"For want of a nail, the shoe was lost;
For want of a shoe, the horse was lost;
For want of a horse, the rider was lost;
For want of a rider, a message was lost;
For want of a message, the battle was lost;
For want of a battle, the kingdom was lost!"

Small variations in initial conditions result in huge, dynamic transformations in concluding events. That is to say that there was no nail, and, therefore, the kingdom was lost! Chaos!

Who wants the nail?
Which is the kingdom?

Rob99
29-08-2004, 04:53 PM
I had no input in the above I just copied of the net, the author is George Herbert.

metla
29-08-2004, 05:14 PM
Buddy,i don't miss points,i make the damn things.

quick quick,close your mind,the outside world may get in.

I would mock you some more,but i get the impression your a bit on the stupid side of things so i'll let you be.

Sucker.

Spencer
29-08-2004, 05:36 PM
> Buddy,i don't miss points,i make the damn things.

> quick quick,close your mind,the outside world may get in.

> I would mock you some more,but i get the impression
> your a bit on the stupid side of things so i'll let
> you be.

> Sucker.


Alas, I fear you are condemned out of your own mouth Metla. From my limited observations it seems to me that if you don't have a valid argument, your philosophy is to be abusive and insulting. You don't make points at all my friend, you attempt to pass off immature, childish and self-opinionated abuse as if it were rational argument.

The only point you have made is to prove that if you can't be right, you will be be wrong louder and more offensively that anybody else. You are so much like PoWa (aka kiki and all his other alter egos) it's just not funny. If you keep sucking long enough it will all come to something I suppose, but it will probably choke you.

Spencer

KingWave
29-08-2004, 06:00 PM
> Alas, I fear you are condemned out of your own mouth Metla. From my limited observations it seems to me that if you don't have a valid argument, your philosophy is to be abusive and insulting. You don't make points at all my friend, you attempt to pass off immature, childish and self-opinionated abuse as if it were rational argument.

Just because you think something is right, doesn't mean it's right to everyone else. It's your opinion and that's all it's worth.

You obviously have no sense of humour.

robc
29-08-2004, 06:50 PM
Metla,
"but i get the impression your a bit on the stupid side"

I think you mean "you're", which gives a whole different meaning.

With the best of intentions,
R

Moderator
29-08-2004, 07:07 PM
All of you need to go outside and cool off!

Enough with the attacks on each other!

Stick to the rules, you all know I hate it when things get nasty X-(