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beetle
22-08-2004, 10:06 PM
I have mailwasher installed and often delete a major amount of emails of the spam type daily.

as i dont beleive in doing the bounce effect.

what i was wondering as when these lovely splendid people send me unsolicited emails and i dont reply or bounce them just delete them, is this an obvious way to say this addy is a viable one?

is that why they resend multiple emails ? or is it likely to be luck on there behalf?

cos it seems i need to be reminded of these same people, and their extrodanary emails often.

but if a email has no correct addy to go to they bounce? do they not? so if they dont bounce or get replied to where possibly do they go?
or is it they go to a legit addy?
which then lets these other senders know its a working addy?

does anyone understand what i mean?

somehow i think ive gone round in circles again.

thanxs

beetle

Billy T
22-08-2004, 10:24 PM
Just delete them and don't worry about their after-life beetle. As regards bouncing, some say do, more say don't, take your pick.

It's not worth worrying about, just dump it and get on with something you'd rather be doing.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

whiskeytangofoxtrot
22-08-2004, 11:04 PM
> Just delete them and don't worry about their
> after-life beetle. As regards bouncing, some say do,
> more say don't, take your pick.
>
> It's not worth worrying about, just dump it and get
> on with something you'd rather be doing.

Well if Billy T says it's not wort worrying about then it mustn't be worth worrying about it, but just for the hell of it I'll actually answer what you were asking.

If a spammer sends to a non existent address it will bounce back with an unknown user from the destination mail server. The bounce feature in Mailwasher tries to emulate this by sending back basically a forged unknown user bounce to the sender of the spam. If you know what you are doing it is very easy to determine what is a mailwasher bounce versus an actual mail server bounce.

That said, if an e-mail sent by a spammer is not bounced back then theoretically the spammer could use that as a way of validating an active address by assumng if it didn't bounce then it must've gone somewhere legitimate (just like they use unsubscribe links, embedded images etc to do this). However, the addresses spammers use are rarely valid - more often than not they are made up, or worse still a valid address of some other poor unsuspecting sap. It would be a rarity for a spammer to monitor the return address for bounces as a method of checking the validity of their list.

Hence bouncing is really a waste of time, all it does is increase the amount of dead mail being sent around, and usually results in a flood of messages coming back to the bouncer.

It costs nothing to send out a few million e-mails, if 80 - 90% of them don't hit a target no one cares. A spammer only needs to get a rate of return of less than 1% to break even.

Clear as mud?

beetle
22-08-2004, 11:46 PM
I do delete them.

Thanxs WTF
and BT, i didnt say i was worried just wondering by not bouncing them am i causing myself more greif in the long run by making it look like my addy is a working one.

yep clear as the preverbial mud.....



beetle

Rob99
23-08-2004, 01:04 AM
> I do delete them.
Yes
Also tell your ISP to get rid of your spam, it shouldnt have to be your job

whiskeytangofoxtrot
23-08-2004, 01:58 AM
> Also tell your ISP to get rid of your spam, it
> shouldnt have to be your job

Why? It's not the ISP that is responsible for it, they don't send the spam. There is no reason why any ISP should have to provide free spam filtering, and it certainly isn't their job to do it.

Rob99
23-08-2004, 09:27 AM
> Why?
With the amount of spam zooming around, most from spoof address, it should be easy for any good ISP to tell the spam from the good emails. And in any case most good ISP's now offer this service for a minimal charge or free, probably just a quick email or phone call will sort all your spam out.

> and it certainly isn't their job to do it.
As you have already pointed out the expert spammers can tell what bounced the email, so it is preferable for the ISP to bounce spam.

Billy T
23-08-2004, 10:36 AM
Sit down for a moment WTF, lest you fall over from shock.:D

I agree with you!

Spam is not the ISP's problem, they don't cause it so why should they have to deal with it? Spam is created by greedy people who don't care about the havoc caused by their mass-mailings, and it is perpetuated by careless users who irresponsibly broadcast their own and many other user's email addresses.

One day they will wake up, develop software that allows customers to customise their personal filtering criteria, offer (almost) spam free accounts at a premium price, and leave the decision to their customers.

My overnight crop on 6 accounts was three genuine emails and 39 spam messages, all for "pharmaceutical" products.

I'd be tempted by a premium offer.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Majideiya
23-08-2004, 01:03 PM
I disagree

You cannot tell me an ISP does not know when a customer is sending out over a million emails a day whats going on...

Its just that the bandwidth required by that customer is substantial, so they are probably a very high paying customer, and they do not want to lose them.

Thats what i reckon anwyays...

whiskeytangofoxtrot
23-08-2004, 01:44 PM
> You cannot tell me an ISP does not know when a
> customer is sending out over a million emails a day
> whats going on...
>
> Its just that the bandwidth required by that customer
> is substantial, so they are probably a very high
> paying customer, and they do not want to lose them.
>
> Thats what i reckon anwyays...

That point is irrelevant, the discussion was regarding ISP's bearing the cost and hassle of implementing spam filtering.

It actually requires very little bandwidth to spam, a spam message is usually tiny, 2 - 3 kb if that. You could quite easily blast out a shed-load of spam on a dial-up connection no trouble.

As far as the ISP is concerned all they would see is data-flow, could be file-sharing, could be web-browsing. It is impractical to analyse all the data sent by all users on a network to try and prowl for junk mail.

Further to that, a fairly significant proportion of junk mail is sent out by zombie machines that have been recruited by trojans or viruses - your machine could be spamming at this very instant.

Rob99
23-08-2004, 02:54 PM
Paradise.net: Free spam filter, just let them know if you want it switched on
Xtra: Spam filter, just let them know if you want it switched on, I think you have to pay a small charge (I dont know)

I am certain there a other ISP's that offer the same services.

I am not saying it is the ISP's problem, infact I never did, maybe if you are a little sensitive about that it could have sounded that way.

This is what I ment to say:
"Does your ISP offer a service that would filter your spam for you. You might have to pay for this."