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beetle
23-07-2004, 01:45 PM
Hi

new subject of interest which has arose out of reading another post - ok as there is another thread going on phone lines talking about faxs this has raised some questions of my own.

I understand most new comps can be used to fax out ?
and i was under the impression that they do not accept or pick up incoming fax's is this wrong?

how does that work then? the comp always has to be on? attached to the fax phone line or ?

and does a comp come with this facility already or do you have to download or alter configurations to accept or send faxs?

i have always typed something up and printed it off and manually walked to fax machine and then sent?

when our new multifunction arrives can we type something up and go straight to fax then?

may have to read instruction manual when it gets here really well then.

thanxs

beetle

johnboy
23-07-2004, 01:52 PM
heres some info on faxs mainly for xp

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;306662
http://www.andyrathbone.com/tips/faxing.html
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/01/08/FaxServ/default.aspx
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;306550&sd=tech
http://www.telecom.co.nz/content/0,3900,200613-1424,00.html
hth

godfather
23-07-2004, 01:54 PM
> I understand most new comps can be used to fax out ?

Yes, most should do that. There is fax software built in under Windows XP. Look for "fax" under Windows help and support.

> and i was under the impression that they do not
> accept or pick up incoming fax's is this wrong?

Should be OK on a dedicated fax line. Most cheap PCI modems will not handle "faxability" on a shared line.

> how does that work then? the comp always has to be
> on? attached to the fax phone line or ?

Yes. Always on, and with the phone line plugged in.
>
> and does a comp come with this facility already or
> do you have to download or alter configurations to
> accept or send faxs?

Under XP its there, check Help and Support as above.

>
> i have always typed something up and printed it off
> and manually walked to fax machine and then sent?

So do I, its much more reliable.

> when our new multifunction arrives can we type
> something up and go straight to fax then?

Probably. But its often easier to do it the long way, then you have a hard copy record of what was sent.

> may have to read instruction manual when it gets here
> really well then.

Can't be that serious surely?

beetle
23-07-2004, 01:58 PM
haha so youd rather id didnt read instructions and caome straight to pf1 for help :D
which i probably will do anyway, as i do already.

thanxs for the replys.


may be just easier to stick with seperate fax machine than changing phone lines, from net use to fax use.



beetle

pulling hair out
23-07-2004, 02:35 PM
hi
Just went to AndyRathbones site mentioned above and it said the following:

>You need three things to send or receive faxes with Windows XP:
# Your computer must have a modem with faxing capabilities. (Not all modems can send faxes.)
# Windows XP must have its fax program installed. (It's not installed automatically.)
# You sometimes need to insert a Windows XP CD to install the fax program. (Not all new computers come with a Windows XP CD.)

As I don't have a Windows XP CD, only a Recovery CD-ROM Set WinXP, how do I get a Windows XP CD ?

Also, does anyone know what is on the above Recovery CD-ROM ?

One good thing about a fax is that you know the moment arrives, whereas with email you don't if you are not always on the net.

Marg.

Graham L
23-07-2004, 03:03 PM
If you haven't got the FAX software installed, you should be able to install it with what is provided. :D You got a computer with XP. Even if it's only a "recovery CD" it will be able to install all the components. Otherwise it's not XP.

A recovery disk will be able to restore the OS to the state it was in when it left the factory. Usually you are given the choice of whether you want a full format/restore or just a repair of the OS.


Somewhere in the Control panel type stuff there will be an Add/Remove Software page, probably with a "Microsoft" tab. If you look at the "details" you will find the FAX stuff, and be able to start the installation of it. It might ask for the CD. It might have the required files hidden away on the hard disk.

godfather
23-07-2004, 03:45 PM
Your recovery CD *should* have also installed a full copy of the CAB files on the hard drive, so if you install the fax option it should know where to find the added bits it needs.

While the fax reception in XP sounds nice, remember that to use it you must have the phone line connected to the PC, the PC must be running and it WILL usually answer ALL calls that come in on the line (including all normal phone calls).

So, unless you have a modem that will discriminate faxability calling (most internal PCI ones will not reliably do so), and have faxability enabled on the line by Telecom, its not always a viable option.

Unless you have a dedicated fax line, in which case its a lot simpler and might even work well.

It usually fails the reasonableness test for me though when I want to send a document that I do not have on the computer (such as a receipt). Then I have to scan it in, make a document from it and send it. Dedicated fax machines are much simpler, and do not cost much to run 24/7, as opposed to a PC.

Graham L
23-07-2004, 03:58 PM
My feeling is that a Fax machine is designed to send faxes, and much more importantly, designed to sit waiting for faxes to come.

A computer can send faxes, probably very well. It is not designed to sit waiting to receive faxes. It can be made to, if it's not too busy, or hasn't crashed, or the fax software hasn't accidentally been stopped or ... (;-)) receive faxes. But if you have to be sure that you will receive all faxes sent to you, I'd bet on the fax machine. I wouldn't bet a company on a computer.

mikebartnz
23-07-2004, 05:33 PM
>usually answer ALL calls
I don't know about XP but with bitware which I had a fair while ago you could set it to receive just a fax. With Bitware you could also set it up as an answer phone.
The problem though is none of it works when you are on the net.

godfather
23-07-2004, 05:40 PM
> I don't know about XP but with bitware which I had a
> fair while ago you could set it to receive just a
> fax.

Explain?

Unless you get a different cadence (ringing pattern, using Telecom Faxability) or the PC has some sort of extra sensory perception, just how does it know its a fax thats causing the phone to ring. On a common line and cadence there is no way of telling.

Once it has answered the call, it can determine if its a fax or not, and take some alternative aciton but it still must answer every call first.

Its horses for courses, my PC will display TV, play DVDs, act as an answerphone and send and receive faxes. But its not as good or convenient as a dedicated TV, DVD player, answer machine or a fax machine.

metla
23-07-2004, 11:25 PM
hmmm....My fax machine answers fax's and lets through the phonecalls,and i pay for no extra telecom services such as faxability.

godfather
23-07-2004, 11:38 PM
Yes, but your fax is acting as a faxcatcher. Listening for the CCITT fax tones and if none are received, it sends the call to the phone socket on the fax.

But the fax actually answers every call, one way or the other.

tbacon_nz
23-07-2004, 11:53 PM
I've used my PC for incoming and outgoing faxes for years with very few problems, and even fewer since I installed WinXP.

One thing that makes it easier for me is that I have a second phone line that is just used for fax and internet, so as long as I have my PC switched on and I'm not on the net I can receive faxes. To send faxes I compose the message in Outlook or create another document (Word, Corel Draw, whatever), then either put the fax number in the to box in outlook and send, or print the document to the fax virtual printer, and off it goes.

Advantages: outgoing fax quality is always very high, I have a record of the faxes I have sent and the original documents. Incoming faxes can be inspected and maybe discarded without printing.

Disadvantages: If I want to fax a piece of "real" paper, I have to scan it before faxing. This is similar to a real fax, but takes a bit longer and is a bit more awkward. If I'm on the net an incoming fax will get a busy signal. I'm not aware of ever having missed a fax that I actually needed.

Tony Bacon

Rob99
24-07-2004, 12:52 AM
Sounds exactly what I do here with no special phone lines

Rob

Graham L
24-07-2004, 02:57 PM
metla: I believe you are "in the trade", so you actually use tools like screwdrivers, nut-drivers, pliers , tweezers, files, scalpels, haemostats.

You might own a Swiss Army knife, which can be used for a lot of tasks --- even "taking stones out of horse's hooves". But when you are working in a computer, I'd bet that you would be desperate before you used the Swiss Army knife, instead of the proper tool. It's not just a matter of "looking professional"-- it's just easier to use the right tool.

Real tools do one thing well. They do that thing much better than tools which do that thing "as well as". Multipurpose machine tools have been around for a long time.Some of them are very cleverly designed. But they can do only one thing at a time. And the things are never done quite as well.

"Computers" are mostly general purpose,and can be used to do all sorts of things. When a task is critical, it has always been a good idea to have a computer to do it as its sole task. That way, fewer accidents happen.;-)

There is a computer in a fax machine. It doesn't have to worry about whether it's time to call home to Microsoft to have its software rebugged. It sits there waiting for the phone to ring. And it never loses its concentration.

metla
24-07-2004, 03:06 PM
uh....is that entire post directed at me?,a bit misguided if so,I personally use a fax for faxing and a computer for ...uh.....computing.I wouldn't recomend using a computer for faxing.

Though i do keep a multi-tool poket knife on my tool shelf......

tbacon_nz
24-07-2004, 04:59 PM
It's horses for courses isn't it Graham? If I was in a busy multi-staff office I would almost certainly have a dedicated stand-alone fax machine. In a home office with comparatively limited space and fairly simple faxing requirements I find the PC option works well for me.

Having said that I did a contract for a while in an office that had implemented desktop faxing through the server, with incoming faxes being routed to the correct recipient, and that worked well. They did have a dedicated fax machine as well though, that was used for faxing "real paper".

Tony B.

Winston001
25-07-2004, 12:19 AM
So you see young Beetle, the lesson given verily is that you shall fax only with hardware. Software is for those mystics who know the arcane ways of the magical XP. Which is a sort of electronic Viagra. :D

Vince
25-07-2004, 05:39 AM
Telecom has, or used to have a FaxTest ( I don't remember exactly what the name was) number that you could send faxes to, and which would send the fax back to you with a report on the quality etc. I have lost the number and cant find it in the new phone book. Does anybody out there know this number? Vince

johnboy
25-07-2004, 08:32 AM
The number is Here ( http://www.telecom.co.nz/content/0,3900,202732-1476,00.html)
hth

Baldy
25-07-2004, 11:30 AM
Beetle, if you already have a fax machine, why complicate your very busy life with trying to get your PC to send/receive faxes.
And being in the motel industry, I would have thought you would want the reliability of a fax machine "working" at all times, maybe to receive bookings etc.

godfather
25-07-2004, 12:02 PM
I agree with Baldy.

Fax machines are so much more reliable, and your business is likely to be quite dependent on faxes.

When was the last time you needed to fix the software in a fax machine?
Has your fax machine ever been hit with any viruses or trojans?
... if you get the point.

mikebartnz
25-07-2004, 12:42 PM
I know a guy who installs and teaches people in using fax software for large businesses where they may have ten or more dedicated lines coming in to a fax server. The amount of paper saved would be enormous. The only problem with using a PC for faxing is when you don't have a dedicated line for it and having to reboot Windows after every patch. :D

Fire-and-Ice
25-07-2004, 02:52 PM
Maybe Beetle wants to have the occasional option of being able to fax a page or document straight from the computer instead of having to print it out then feed it thru the fax machine? That would be a rather convenient option but you don't get a receipt, if that is an important consideration. In fact you might not always be 100% sure the fax actually got sent. ;-)

----
25-07-2004, 04:29 PM
I have just set up outlook to send faxes as I find it convenient to beable to save the outgoing fax without havng to punch holes in a piece of paper. however i will continue to receive faxes by way of my fax machine and then bin them when I have dealt with the inquiry.
I feel this arrangement gives me the best of both worlds.
Also with my little fax machine I don't know whether the fax has gone where I intended anyway until I get a reply to it. Have faith brothers.

beetle
26-07-2004, 12:33 PM
:_| :_|

i didnt mean i wanted to do anything with it.............
just asking.
i just wanted to know my options, my fax is dying, my printer is running like crap and nearly out of ink.....and dont know whether i should get new ink or wait for me multifunction.....

and as you know round here, all my electric devices end up working like crap, so why not stuff it all up and only have to replace one thing then???

its Monday, the week has started off like....... and it can only get worse cant it?
so make the most of it..... add fuel to the fire make life bearable :D
keep us warm....

sigh.


beetle

Old Tom
28-07-2004, 02:10 PM
My dear Beetle,you know your uncle Tom will put you right.

Get a new fax machine.
Having tried compu faxing,it is amusing but none the less a pain,so in your game do stay dedicated.;)

beetle
28-07-2004, 02:16 PM
LOL (HWMO )has gone off to pick up the multifunction we ordered today.

i am in no hurry to learn how to pc fax, but as long as all fax's are sent ok and received ok and it prints fine, thats all im worried about at the moment.....:D

just be prepared for the next influx of beetle questions on what the multifunction is not doing i guess.......

before i RTFM ???? :p

thanxs all.

time will tell how this one goes.

beetle

Rob99
28-07-2004, 02:22 PM
If I was you beetle I would not get anything multifunction for as you say
> and as you know round here, all my electric devices end up working like crap, so why not stuff it all up and only have to replace one thing then???
If one thing broke you would be without printer, fax, scanner and copier;\

beetle
28-07-2004, 02:26 PM
when all else fails put the old ones back in the meantime while waiting for new fix it one....

anyway im getting quite good at this hard line tactics down the phone about replacement items.

and this time all have been brought in the same town i live in...


by the way how does this effect my oven cos its on its way out the door too, stuffed a few baking sesions with the stupid machine......

i hate machines, and they hate me it seems.
?:|

beetle

Rob99
28-07-2004, 02:32 PM
Here is a tip (http://www.freetechsupport.com/csr/cookfire.htm);\

Old Tom
28-07-2004, 03:17 PM
Nothing wrong with the machine you are getting,they are no prob as you will find.In fact you will grow to love it.
They have one here,good for copying,much better than the fax copier.