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tweak\'e
23-06-2004, 08:26 PM
i happen to notice that on fair go on tv1 they had a story about dailers (again) and they gave the addy for adaware. unfortunatly the gave the WRONG address. www.ada-ware.com is for spyassian a paid spyware removal program. can't the media ever get it right ! they made no mention of useing antivirus or firewalls both of which will pick rouge dailers.

i tried to email them but i got "email server error" go tvnz :(

Growly
23-06-2004, 08:34 PM
Good work.

kiki
23-06-2004, 09:00 PM
Well anyone thinking they'll get credible IT info on FairGo should think again. Also anyone thinking they'll get up-to-date and most recent IT info from the NZ Herald should also think again.

Winston001
23-06-2004, 09:06 PM
Yeah, and it was all the fault of Telecom, Ihug, and Telstra/Clear. Nothing said about people getting advice when they buy a computer.

This stuff is preventable if people would deal with specialist computer shops. You can't expect advice from the Warehouse or even Noel Leeming.

But no. Buy the cheapest or flashiest machine and when the enormous toll bill arrives - blame the telephone provider. Of course.

tweak\'e
23-06-2004, 09:14 PM
winston you just reminded me of something i forgot to mention.

very liitle has been said about these ones where the calls from the pc are made when the people are away (overseas etc). unless someone powered the pc up or the pc has been woken up via a phone call there is no way they could make the call. therefore why are they being charged ??
i'm surprised fairgo hasn't made an issue of this.

Murray P
23-06-2004, 09:29 PM
Got an email off in lieu of your one tweak'e, I added a bit of info re securing your PC with url's to usefull sites, couldn't help it ;) Hopefully it hits the right mark.

Cheers Murray P

mikebartnz
23-06-2004, 09:36 PM
I read tonight the big four email providers (Yahoo, Hotmail etc) are talking about shutting down zombies untill they get their machines cleaned up. Fair enough I say. Anything to reduce spam.

tweak\'e
23-06-2004, 09:40 PM
cheers murray ....hopefully they will get their act together.

mayby they should include a bit about internet banking.....had another pc today that had a trojen on it :(

Jim B
23-06-2004, 10:05 PM
> This stuff is preventable if people would deal with
> specialist computer shops. You can't expect advice
> from the Warehouse or even Noel Leeming.

I don't think it is reasonable to expect any computer retailer to give a course on using the internet when a person buys a computer.
If Spyware or Firewalls were happened to be mentioned it would go over most peoples heads anyway when they may not even know what a web browser is.

It is up to individuals when they buy any equipment to make themselves familiar with all the safety aspects and to take responsibility for it.
There is plenty of information available, the bookshops are full of guides to using the internet and if people do not bother to make the effort then they only have themselves to blame.

It is not easy to get dialers installed. they generally don't just jump on without some imput from the user and only then if they are accessing certain types of websites.

Anti-Virus and Firewalls are of limited use for preventing installation of dialers, it is more important to have the browser security levels set to medium or higher and all the latest MS updates and patches installed.

They could also buy a Mac instead and never have Spyware, Virus or Dialer problems.

Murray P
23-06-2004, 10:17 PM
Probel is Jim most people will get their new beastie home, pull the wrapper off and plug er in. First thing they do is probably hit the internet, unless perhaps its a gaming machine (can you even buy those off the shelf ;\ )

One way to do it, would be to put a tutorial on the PC along with all the others but, with precedence. A nice annoying nag window with hard to find Go Away For Ever button would do the trick, it could even pop up when virus definitions, etc, are more than a week old.

Now that's what I call Trusted computing ;).

Cheers Murray P

mikebartnz
23-06-2004, 10:28 PM
>It is up to individuals when they buy any equipment to make themselves familiar with all the safety aspects and to take responsibility for it.
If someone is buying a PC for the first time they are probably pig ignorant. When ever I sell a PC or upgrade one or even work on one that doesn't have a firewall I always make sure anti-virus, firewall and spyware are all taken care of. Ok I could make more money by fixing all those problems later but I don't particularly enjoy it as it is a nuisance. I also try to get them off IE and Outlook especially if they are a new user and aren't set in their ways. The customer also has a far better experience and is far happier staying with me. After all most people only want to do what they want to do and nothing more.
>They could also buy a Mac instead and never have Spyware, Virus or Dialer problems.
Or Linux or virtually any other OS apart from MS.

Bazza
23-06-2004, 10:43 PM
Yes, agreed about the Fair Go program.. I was amazed that they said a person was charged for 0900 calls while they were "away" for several days.
Surely the PC was switched off during that time. If not, why not? Why can it happen?

Jim B
23-06-2004, 10:47 PM
Nice idea, but human nature the way it is it would all be ignored.

That is the reason they get the dialers on their computers, they just click on accept or whatever and don't bother to read or try to understand what it is all about.

How many people read the instruction book that comes with their new stove, TV DVD or washing machine.

Until MS develop an operating system that makes it difficult for unsolicitated installations and changes to files to be done then most people are going to learn the hard way and have to pay the phone bill.
After that of course they will be much wiser and seek out the necessary information to prevent it happening again.
Even so I have encountered people who after receiving a big phone bill and being given the necessary information and precautions to prevent dialers being installed have had the same problem again.
You can only do so much to help some people.

Murray P
23-06-2004, 10:55 PM
Wake on LAN for ethernet or wake on ring for modems.

I know someone who thought he was going nuts because every time he got to his office in the morning his computer would be on, he was the only one with access and works alone. One evening he switched it off hung around nearby for an hour or so then went back to check it, sure enough there it was up and running and have a good old time on the net doing god knows what. Not too long after phoning me he was leaving my place with a CD and instructions on disabling wake on any damn thing, problem solved another secure computer user is born.

Cheers Murray P

Vince
24-06-2004, 04:21 AM
My email got through. I got an automated reply saying that due to huge volumes they might not be able to read it for a week!

robo
24-06-2004, 07:03 AM
Funny. Getting your facts right is pretty fundamental for any form of journalism. But then facts should never get in the way of a good story. You don't always have time on TV or radio to get to technical. Remember that 90% of the audience probably haven't a clue what they are talking about and are just about ready to go make a cup of tea.

If they can't get it completely accurate, they really shouldn't try at all. Maybe they should stick to old ladies getting ripped off by people pretending to resurface their roof and dodgy car dealers.
robo.

Baldy
24-06-2004, 07:37 AM
> Yes, agreed about the Fair Go program.. I was amazed
> that they said a person was charged for 0900 calls
> while they were "away" for several days.
> Surely the PC was switched off during that time. If
> not, why not? Why can it happen?
>
>
>

Maybe they were on Jetstream? Isn't it on all the time?
I never turn my computer off. Just the monitor.

falvrez
24-06-2004, 07:58 AM
Something that I find incredible is that we *still* don't have a weekly IT programme on the telly.
Here is a device that is proliferate, and most of the people really need help with them, yet still no "Computerworld Weekly" programme (maybe that's becuase that name is taken:))
Come on PC World - get an outline together and approach TVNZ - let's educate some "pig ignorant" PC users (don't like that term but someone else used it).

I'm already testing the water on this idea with our soon-to-be local TV station and they are very keen...

robo
24-06-2004, 08:15 AM
It would be great if we could get something like that off the ground, but it has to be very up to date, so would have to be shot in the last day or two of the week. Old news is no good.
It's worth a try, I suppose. People have tried to get them off the ground before, and failed.
robo.

Sb0h
24-06-2004, 08:41 AM
Robo, couldn't an IT based TV show be produced to educate people, much like Tech TV used to on Saturn. The content would not need to be the very latest news but more why and how you should use antivirus/spyware software. Explaining the difference between a case and a hard drive would be valuable to a lot of people...the number of times people refer to the case as the hard drive!!

The latest industry news could be done in a short segment at the end of the show. I'm sure if PC World approached NZ on AIR they would get some funding, they must have plenty spare considering the amount they dished out to produce that crap NZ Idol. :p

robo
24-06-2004, 08:49 AM
Yes, I can see the benefits of that. I guess it is worth a try.

Having done a bit of radio talkback, it is very easy to get tangled up in the detail of how to fix one person's problem and you've got every other listener yawning, if the person doesn't know what a pull-down menu is or how to press Ctrl-Alt-Delete it goes particularly slowly, then you butt into ad breaks and things as well. Television and radio have issues that we don't have on PressF1 or in PC World.

Bear in mind that the quality and merit of any TV show has very little to do with it's viability or popularity.

NZ Idol, and every unreality show out there are excellent examples if this rule. Look at what they do to scheduling of shows like Stargate SG-1, Babylon 5, West Wing, and so on where they stop and start and move and hide them.

Stay tuned. You never know.
robo.

falvrez
24-06-2004, 08:52 AM
Sorry yes I should have been more clear - as said, just a generic show on what (and what not) to do.

Of course it could be live - how up to date is that. I can just see all those BSODs....

Winston001
24-06-2004, 09:59 AM
A TV show would be good but it would have to be populist to appeal to the widest number of people. TV executives and advertisers are not interested in quality - viewer numbers drive budgets.

You could have an excellent program but if only 2% watch it, then it will not pay for itself in prime time.

My point is that people need to be educated to buy or at least have their computers serviced at a specialist shop. There is business to be done. Why let the Warehouse et al take it away?

The answer might be for specialists in each town to get alongside the big retailers and encourage referrals for the proud new owner. Being realistic, the major retailers aren't going to bail out of computers at present.

robo
24-06-2004, 10:17 AM
That hits the problem on the head. You've got people out there with PCs that struggle to manage a sodding microwave oven.

PCs are better than they were, but they still get trashed and then some poor bozo (like me) ends up paying house calls after work to sort it out. Not that I am bitter or anything, but when your kids go "my Dad can fix it for you" what can you do.
robo.

mark c
24-06-2004, 10:41 AM
The BBC does an ok show called "Click online". I can never decide if the presenter is a techie talking down to the dimwit audience or a non-techie being smarmy about the technology he doesn't understand.

It's an OK show, don't expect to leard anything, it's populist, it's light, it's magazine style and it's on about 1-2 o'clock in the morning!

Can't see a tvnz comp program showing any othe time. Good iidea though, there are programs for fishers, petrol heads, cooks, gardeners, plenty, so yeah one on comps too.

stu120404
24-06-2004, 11:20 AM
> Maybe they were on Jetstream? Isn't it on all the
> time?
> I never turn my computer off. Just the monitor.

As far as I am aware diallers donít work well on ADSL modems.

metla
24-06-2004, 11:24 AM
>>or a non-techie being smarmy about the technology he doesn't understand

Thats how i see him,watched it last night,the guy needs to be rolled by schoolgirls.

godfather
24-06-2004, 11:30 AM
> As far as I am aware diallers donít work well on ADSL
> modems.

Actually dialers dont work at all on ADSL modems.
ADSL modems cannot "dial".

But if you still have a dial-up modem fitted and connected any dialer can still use it despite the presence of an ADSL modem.
This is another good reason to have an external dial-up modem, they have a wonderful thing called an "OFF Switch". You have full control over them. None of my PCs have a modem fitted. If I need one I connect an external.

These dialer programs are doing the rounds overseas as well, with a few companies pushing the "service".

The worst example is one site where you log on to complain about a billing charge, and cannot get access untill you accept a "customer service plug-in", which happens to be a dialer .... then they say that "you must have agreed to the installation of our dialer".

Enough people pay to make it very profitable I imagine.

nzStan
24-06-2004, 11:42 AM
> PCs are better than they were, but they still get
> trashed and then some poor bozo (like me) ends up
> paying house calls after work to sort it out. Not
> that I am bitter or anything, but when your kids go
> "my Dad can fix it for you" what can you do.
> robo.

You think that's bad? At church if anyone has a computer problem its, "Ask Stan, he'll know what to do". LOL

Not that I am complaining - I love tinkering with all sorts of PCs and there is that satisfied feeling of seeing the PC go home all disinfected and protected and the owners getting a quick lecture on computer security.

stu120404
24-06-2004, 11:46 AM
> > As far as I am aware diallers donít work well on
> ADSL
> > modems.
>
> Actually dialers dont work at all on ADSL modems.
> ADSL modems cannot "dial".

Ya! I was sort of correct there :) ;)

Jen C
24-06-2004, 12:13 PM
I agree with the comments that first time computer owners often have very little idea on how to look after their system or even how to turn off the computer (even computer owners of many years still have very little knowledge as well). But, they are either interested in learning more or not. Having a TV show on will only attract viewers who are interested in learning, and it would have to be on a very basic level or the technical details will go over their head or be misunderstood. I know someone who when they heard about the Sasser worm on TV, was too scared to turn on their computer for a week, and thought by leaving it off for a week it would then be safe to turn on their computer again as the worm would of gone away after that - he was actually only running Win98 as well which was not even affected by this worm.

Reading about how to look after your computer is a much easier way of educating yourself, as you can learn at your own pace and have the reference material on hand.

This is where Computer Magazines come into play. If someone is interested in learning, they can buy a magazine that is aimed at their level and learn about checking for updates, viruses, spyware, disk-defragging, backup etc. An example of this is the SeniorNet magazine that is produced and obviously targetting a certain audience as opposed to a general PC Mag such as NZ PC World which has more advanced articles in it.

The ideal situation is to have a freely available sponsored booklet that accompanies each new computer sold with such information, and where to find further resources and more current information. It would be even better if this booklet was available at libraries or be able to be ordered from their ISP website. Dreams are free.

mark c
24-06-2004, 12:19 PM
Well put, Jen C, but I think it all comes down to the simple truth that those who want to learn, will.

There is enough material on the net, and more every day, about comps and the net to keep anyone busy for ever.

cheers mc

alanpreston
24-06-2004, 12:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"antivirus or firewalls both of which will pick rouge dailers."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure what a "lipstick dailer" is (rouge dailer) but I know "rogue dialers" can be annoying.

Incidentally, if you're going to mention that a url is wrong, it might be helpful to post the correct one:
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/

mark c
24-06-2004, 12:45 PM
>I'm not sure what a "lipstick dailer" is (rouge dailer) but I know "rogue dialers" can be annoying.

"rouge dialers" are ones contracted from an adult site :^O

robo
24-06-2004, 12:59 PM
I soooo had to resist mentioning that. I thought it was just cruel. We all make mistakes.

There is a game called "rogue squadron" that has been listed on trademe as "rouge squadron" and I chuckle every time I see it. Sounds like it must be some thing like "A Queer Eye for the Straight Starfighter Pilot".

Small things amuse small minds.
robo.

mark c
24-06-2004, 01:08 PM
Fair doos robo, couldn't resist.

Here's (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/23/spain_dial_scam/) an interesting story about a Spanish dialer scam. :D

mikebartnz
24-06-2004, 02:47 PM
>The ideal situation is to have a freely available sponsored booklet
Would any free version of anti-virus or firewall etc get a look in. Being sponsored it would really only become an advertising platform. Otherwise well said JenC.

Vince
24-06-2004, 03:04 PM
> But if you still have a dial-up modem fitted and
> connected any dialer can still use it despite the
> presence of an ADSL modem.
> This is another good reason to have an external
> dial-up modem, they have a wonderful thing called an
> "OFF Switch". You have full control over them. None
> of my PCs have a modem fitted. If I need one I
> connect an external.

I have my internet settings set to "Never dial a conection".
It works for me.

Winston001
24-06-2004, 04:56 PM
Great post Jen.

There is business to be done here by IT people - such as Metla et al.

If buyers could be persuaded or encouraged for an extra, say, $88 to go to an IT business for a few minutes education and a load-up of Spybot, they will be better off. They are also likely to come back for more help.

Everyone is a winner. Yes the consumer spends a bit more but they were probably only going to waste it on DVDs and munchies anyway. :D

metla
24-06-2004, 05:03 PM
>If buyers could be persuaded or encouraged for an extra, say, $88 to go to an IT business for a few minutes education and a load-up of Spybot, they will be better off. They are also likely to come back for more help.

These people already shop at computer stores,the rest will continue to buy off applance stores and shelf stackers,convinced there $999 deal with phone suport out of malaysia was the best possible choice and scoffing at people who bought quality systems off a real shop.

Billy T
24-06-2004, 06:24 PM
> Here's (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/23/spain_dia
> _scam/) an interesting story about a
> Spanish dialer scam. :D

Guess you had to manuely delete it once you found your computer was fawlty too.:|

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

mark c
24-06-2004, 06:48 PM
HaHa, finally got it Billy T. :^O

Peter
24-06-2004, 07:28 PM
If you have access to Sky TV 'Click On-Line is broadcast at 8-30 Fri mornings and again on Sat evenings, also at other times throughout the week.
Hey, they even have a Kiwi reporter!

Peter.

Peter
24-06-2004, 07:33 PM
Sorry, forgot to say Click On-Line is on BBC World, broadcast by Sky TV.

tweak\'e
24-06-2004, 07:42 PM
>I have my internet settings set to "Never dial a conection".
It works for me.

dosen't make much difference when it comes to the real evil dailers as they will disconnect your dailup and run there own without any user input.

however for your usuall malware "Never dial a conection" certainly does help and is a good little trick that helps.