PDA

View Full Version : slightly OT: the youth of today. Sigh...



falvrez
02-06-2004, 05:37 PM
Time to get on my soapbox.

Each week I go to a local high school to do my CCNA and ITE course (just finished ITE). Cheap to do and a worldwide qualification - I'm a happy man.

But - oh the language from the other students in the class (that is, student-age students). Man I would have been caned and expelled for far, far less than what they dish out to each other and the teacher.

The F word, the S word and the C word appear in every sentence from nearly every pupil. Hey I'm no prude but there's no need to get carried away and swear just to look cool (yes ok they think you do have to). And the looks from the woman who is our organisation's first level IT support (she comes with me to the class to study also) are shocking.

But the thing that gets me the most is that they are being handed this course and an international qualification pretty much on a platter and all they have to do is pull finger and study. But do they? Nope, most days it's a Quake Deathmatch for an hour or more - basically as long as they are in the class they are playing games. There are the exceptions but they are in the minority. They all whinged when I cruised through my ITE final becuase they are all still way behind. Of course they are - they don't study. I only do 2 hours once a week and finished it in a month or so - they are there (in that class) 5 hours a week and most still are not half way through. No idea how they get through their CCNA.

Many of you will say it's the teacher's fault for letting them get away with it - and yes in a way it is, but he has no respect from them and neither does he deserve to get treated like a piece of dirt - but he does.

And sure I could say "quit your bloody swearing!" and today I was almost at that point, and next week I think I will do that, but I don't feel it's in my place to tell them to grow up. I wonder if their parents talk to them like that or at home perhaps they are different people altogether.

All I can say is that it just reaffirms our committent to homeschooling our own kids. FYI I'm 39 - not an oldie by my standards, but I guess by their I am.

Let the abuse begin.

metla
02-06-2004, 05:40 PM
Man....i wish i was young again,sounds awesome.

Well okay,im still young...is 30 young?,has to be,my grandfather called me an annoying child the other day......HA

And instead of working i play video games all day and post here on this forum....

nzStan
02-06-2004, 05:57 PM
I know how you feel - in a sort of way. Occasionally I'll have the misfortune of standing next to or sitting closed to some of these teens on the bus.

One time these two kids behind me were going none-stop with their F words (I mean every single sentence had at least one F word in it!). I couldn't stand it and folded my newspaper and move to the front of the bus. Rather stand there than continue to listen to the filth coming out of their mouth. (and no, they were literally shouting these words out, its not like you could try to ignore them).

Why didn't I stop them? I didn't think it would help, it would probably trigger a torrent of abusive racist remarks from them.

Billy T
02-06-2004, 06:14 PM
Are those day classes or night classes falvrez?

If they are day classes complain to the Principal. If kids talked like that in class at our local high school they'd be on a 5 day stand-down for the first offence Two or three repeat offences would see them out the gate never to return. same thing applies to behaviour going to or from school. From when the student leaves home (parental responsibility) until returning home, the school is in loco parentis and school rules and discipline apply, even outside the school premises.

Standards only exist where people are willing to live by them and enforce them.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

DangerousDave
02-06-2004, 06:14 PM
man i love being a teenager...

i guess i'm kinda conditioned to this stuff, but currently i'm having the time of my life as a teenager, good friends, good parties, good school/jobs.

/shrugs swearing really isn't that bad, i mean, its a pretty good vent lol

- David

falvrez
02-06-2004, 06:16 PM
Day classes - I get paid to go so another bonus of being a salaried worker (as against my previous life of self employment).

DD - there's just no need for it. Vent it out in your own home, man, not in public.

nzStan
02-06-2004, 06:28 PM
I have no problem with swearing - but use it when it is called for. When you peppered it all over your conversation it loses its real meaning and impact.

When I converse with my suppliers they know when I am really cheesed off. Nowadays you hear these words on TVs and Movies, no wonder the kids think it perfectly normal to spew these filth.

Chilling_Silence
02-06-2004, 06:32 PM
Amen to that statement, I love being a Teenager too :-)

Its also been good for me being homeschooled - Given me a foot in the door in a few places I wouldnt have been able to get :-)

Baldy
02-06-2004, 07:16 PM
Enjoy it buddy!

There's endless working years ahead of you as an Adult. See if your employer thinks swearing is a pretty good way to go when you get a job. If you want a half decent one, that is.

Your fun is yet to begin

techie_fanatic
02-06-2004, 09:11 PM
A happy teenager here too [well, most times at least]

I know how it feels to hear swear words in every single sentence some speak outloud. However, saying that, I have, myself, been slightly influenced, and I know, to be honest, I do use the S and F word. Lets admit it, todays society is by far more stressful that what it has ever been. And stress levels will continue to rise in our next generation of children as time flies. To accomodate for these stress and anger, we, teens really do not have any other choice of better words.

Part of our English work on poetry, we studied the sound effects produced by the mouth, in depth. Man, we learnt a heck of a lot from that. To know all the human psychology behind swearing is truly amazing. For example, most of my peers (and myself included) simply exited out of our exam today with the big fat 'F' word. Why? It was hyper-difficult. Results are not even worth dreaming about. Swearwords, in fact, are usually used at climax level. Once it is released, most cool down....

But in your case, I feel terriably sorry for you that you are having to learn under such a shocking environment. People at our school, yes, we swear sometimes, but only do so when we know for sure that there are no adults around, and that the person we're standing next two would not have a problem of accepting it. That way, we minimise offending others. At the rare time when some do get caught, and abuse the system, they are instantly awarded with litter duty or detention.

It does not look like the school your learning from is the top in the school. Complain to the principle/person incharge if you think you are being offended.

To all true teens [those half way between adulthood and childhood], make the most of it before you stike 21. It is indeed, a true and awesome experience. ;-):D

techie_fanatic
02-06-2004, 09:14 PM
> It does not look like the school your learning from
> is the top in the school. Complain to the
> principle/person incharge if you think you are being
> offended.
>

Sorry people, my grammar is shocking today, after all those "brain-burns".

It does not seem like the school you are learning from is the top in the country, it should read. Not the only mistake, I'm sure. Sorry about that.

Megaman
02-06-2004, 09:36 PM
Sorry to say it, but there's nothing you can do about it.

Teens will be teens. Teens will swear. But you know where we get it from?

Adults

Mainly T.V programs and movies, but either way we get it from adults. Sute, we are partly to blame, but take any program after 11:00 and it will have the "f" word in it.

No points for guesses as to why there are teen pregnancies and smoking as well.

Just my opinion, if you don't like it, I don't really care.

MM

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
02-06-2004, 10:45 PM
> Sorry to say it, but there's nothing you can do about
> it.
>
> Teens will be teens. Teens will swear. But you know
> where we get it from?
>
> Adults
>
> Mainly T.V programs and movies, but either way we get
> it from adults. Sute, we are partly to blame, but
> take any program after 11:00 and it will have the "f"
> word in it.
>
> No points for guesses as to why there are teen
> pregnancies and smoking as well.
>
> Just my opinion, if you don't like it, I don't really
> care.
>
> MM

Good one, completely agree with both Megaman and techie. If there weren't such adults, there wouldn't be such teens. Not all adults are as good as you might be. Not all adults are a good role model.

kaiw
02-06-2004, 11:12 PM
There are many good kids out there but unfortunately it is always the plonkers who get noticed.

Having said that I work with a group of kids -15/16 yrs old- trying to teach them work skills. These skills are actually the basics such as being on time,looking for something to do without being told to,completing a job,not moaning,don't sit down/stop until the job is completed.

Now to a lot old types like me(50+) these are the basics we learnt as kids from our Fathers and teachers,most of whom were Returened Serviceman. Life wasn't perfect but we learnt values that have held us in good stead.

It seems that attitudes like I have expressed above are foreign/filthy words. These kids have no attitudes worthwhile listening to, nor do they want to listen.

And before the apologists and woofters who want to be Helen Clark start whinging, of course generalisations are bad and there are always exceptions. But we got on with life and worked.

Nowadays no one wants to be responsible for their actions: the PC woofters have seen to that whereby any stupid/unthinking action can be blamed on someone/something else.

Until we get rid of this pathetic attitude we will continue to have social irresponsibility.

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
02-06-2004, 11:50 PM
I think it all comes down to what kind of a job you have. Social workers would be dealing with kids coming from a not-so-flash family background. Hence, badly educated and more likely to swear. However, what they don't see are the good kids (beside their own) than are eagered to learn. In this case, teens are been stereotyped, which in fact, plays a huge role is destroying social interactions today.

TonyF
02-06-2004, 11:52 PM
Keep up the good work Kaiw. Would it be that most of these kids reflect the way their parents/guardians live ? I once had occasion to meet up with a slightly older but similar bunch and their mentor. It was clear that turning up for work regularly, or actually trying to do something, was a strange thing. They were 19/20, and with no real idea of doing anything. The mentor doubted that he could do much to change them - they moved in an environment of similar people, but at least he tried.

Worriesome, isn't it.

Cheers Tony

metla
02-06-2004, 11:55 PM
Society has always been a mess, Teenagers have always been a problem, the criminal society has always existed, hell they run the show half the time.

The problem with this country is that we have no barbarians at the gate, we have it so sweet its unbelievable.

Not directed at you SY, your post was just at the end of the queue.

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
03-06-2004, 12:05 AM
No more comment, I can only say c.f. Megaman's response. I shall be the same. I wonder who started the whole 'youth behaviour' B-)

Weren't you all youths [or youth-at-heart] once upon a time...? Or even now... in metla's case. Wish my dad played computer games :8}

Winston001
03-06-2004, 11:02 AM
Interesting thread. There is nothing new about swearing. What has changed is the level of respect for others in society.

At one time, bad language was reserved for certain environments. You didn't use it in public, or polite company - (such as your family, teacher etc) basically not in front of anyone you respected.

Swearing was used among friends and colleagues if generally accepted. It was also used, as today, as an appropriate expletive to express frustration, anger, rage, shock, pain etc. That is what swear words exist for.

I recall our speech was peppered with all the usual strong words at school in the early 70s - but never in front of an adult.
The same happened at the freezing works later, and amongst the guys at university. But not in front of our girlfriends or strangers. Using strong language was and is, a sort of bonding ritual. A way of fitting in, being tough, bold, etc.

Personally I find commonplace swearing in public, which now happens, offensive. These words are powerful and violent, because that is what they exist for. Unfortunately if we have no respect for other people, we will not care that they are offended and even threatened by bad language. And that is the place we find ourselves today.

Modern TV doesn't help although it no longer shocks. Not suprising that youth think it is perfectly ok. But they have parents and teachers to tell them otherwise - except it doesn't happen.

Either new words will be invented (oddly, hasn't happened yet) or there will be a return to more modest values as has happened in earlier centuries. We live in interesting times.

Winston001

mejobloggs
03-06-2004, 11:26 AM
About getting swearing from adults:

I tutor some little primary school kids, and they get told off if they swear, but then I am sitting there, and their Mum makes a mistake with something, and I can hear her swearing in the background. It seems pointless to me to tell the children off for swearing, when they hear it from her in the first place.

Heh, I always bring up laughs at school when I say bother, instead of something more graphical. I guess it is a bit about like Windston said about fitting in. Yet I manage to fit in Ok with my extreme words like bother, and flop, even if I do get hastled for it.

Greg S
03-06-2004, 11:38 AM
> Heh, I always bring up laughs at school when I say
> bother, instead of something more graphical. I guess
> it is a bit about like Windston said about fitting
> in. Yet I manage to fit in Ok with my extreme words
> like bother, and flop, even if I do get hastled for
> it.

Good man JoBloggs!!

Chilling_Silence
03-06-2004, 11:49 AM
I believe its what Society deems acceptable.

Personally, swearing hasnt ever been an issue. Ive wanted to scream and curse on the odd occasion, but to be honest it wont get you anywhere so why should I lower my standards. Admittedly not everybody sets their 'bar' at the same height as me, or perhaps mine is just set crooked, but none-the-less its a personal choice Ive simply made and my peers respect that.

Years ago it was considered very extreme for a young teenage girl to be pregnant before marriage. Now, we see it happening all the time, because society deems it acceptable.

Yet, society seems to be going in the wrong direction in many ways, and that's whats sad :-(


Chill.

metla
03-06-2004, 11:54 AM
wrong direction compared to what?

Does anyone actually read an history?

Was it better 50 years ago?

100 years ago?

500 years ago?

Hell no,You would be put to work in the salt mines at 5 and dead at 15,or used as cannon fodder in some petty fools real estate claim.

Swearing wasn't an issue,dying of disease,starvation or war was.

Winston001
03-06-2004, 12:05 PM
Well done Joe. Interesting, because I have deliberately modified my own language since having children. I now say bother and other mild expressions. You are dead right that kids learn from adults - the ultimate responsibility lies with the grownups.

And Chill, you are right about what society tolerates. We live in a liberal age where it seems that if it feels good, you should be allowed to do it.

Fine, except pedophiles, drug dealers, and drunks like what they do too.
So it must be alright?

Values will change. Eventually we will see a return to individual respect for others but I can't identify the catalyst. Otherwise society will break down with nobody obeying laws and just doing their own thing.

metla
03-06-2004, 12:15 PM
>Fine, except pedophiles, drug dealers, and drunks like what they do too.
So it must be alright?

Alcohol, child molestation and drugs(to a smaller extent but they have had many era's of popularity over the centuries) have always been present within the human race, the difference was back in this "golden age" i presume you refer to people simply didn't get prosecuted for pedophilia.

Winston001
03-06-2004, 01:34 PM
There was no golden age. Along with courtesy and respect in past centuries, society also accepted paternalism, massive class distinctions, and the repression of women. Actually it doesn't sound all bad. :D

Alcohol and child abuse are not new, but common drug use is. The difference today is that we are all able to be far better educated and informed. We now know about harm and how to stop it.

Back to the topic.
Falverz: I do not put up with bad language in the sort of situations you describe. If a person speaks to me in such a way on the phone or in my office, I consider that deeply disrespectful and end the conversation. Not always possible I know.

I can only suggest a calm and quiet word of your views to the students. Some will think it weird, others will be embarrassed cos they simply go along with their mates. If you can show standards of behavior, that influences others.

nzStan: we all understand how you felt. Challenging the lads would have generated more abusive language. I have finally learned that speaking quietly and with humour, is the best way to be listened to. Criticism or challenge simply raise defenses and nobody listens.

But ultimately it all comes back to adult examples and behaviour.

Cheers.
Got to do some work!

metla
03-06-2004, 02:04 PM
> There was no golden age.

Of course there was,Inbetween 1972 and 1988,The Heavy Metal Era,Black Sabbath,Iron Maiden,Judas preist,AC/DC,Scorpions,Megadeth,Slayer,Riot,Metal Church...and many many others released released not only their best albums but the best albums to ever be recorded in the history of music.

Pure bliss.

nzStan
03-06-2004, 02:22 PM
Abba, Barry Manilow, Osmond, Jackson 5, John Denver - bygone era.

rodb
03-06-2004, 02:46 PM
Take it from an oldie...........
Current problems are that teachers are not allowed to instill discipline in their classes, and many parents won't because they are as bad as the multitude of children they produce.
When I was in early schooling well over 60 years ago there was no problem, but the standards of society have slipped alarmingly since. Just consider the very poor films, so called "music", drug culrure, and bad parenting around now and realise why children today are so obnoxious.

Winston001
03-06-2004, 02:53 PM
Oh Metla, that Golden Age. I'm with you there. Don't forget Cream, Blind Faith, Jimmi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, et al. Heep even had a bass guatarist from Christchurch - Gary Thaine, who sadly died of a heroin overdose.

But Stan - Barry Manilow??? :_| I feel ill...................

zqwerty
03-06-2004, 03:08 PM
"Society has always been a mess, Teenagers have always been a problem, the criminal society has always existed, hell they run the show half the time.

The problem with this country is that we have no barbarians at the gate, we have it so sweet its unbelievable."

Exactly, it makes no sense to believe that things were better in the past, except for a few isolated parts and stratas within particular societies which only lasted for a short itme as evidenced by the longing for the "Good old days" things have never been better for the average Joe. There has always been badly behaved children and adults, it depends on many factors, there are lots of smart and intelligent young people out there who are clever enough to play any act that the situation demands, just as I did, including swearing, dressing ridiculously just to p...s off the adults who need to be woken up periodically from their complacency anyway.

Rob

Winston001
03-06-2004, 04:57 PM
Agreed Rob. Except "those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it" - George Santayana

There never were good old days. But there are good things we can learn from past times.

It all comes down to respect - for ones-self, and for others.For example, if the flamers on this forum simply said what they didn't like, instead of making nasty personal comments, there wouldn't be any locked threads.

Courtesy. Sheesh, it aint hard.

Growly
03-06-2004, 06:33 PM
You know what makes me angry?

THE FACT THEY GIVE CCNA FREE IN SOME HIGH SCHOOLS.

I HAD TO PAY $484 FOR NETWORK+ (Equivalent to CCNA).... I MEAN HOW JEALOUS AM I?!?!

But yes, the youth of today are all losers.

(I'm 15)

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
03-06-2004, 08:46 PM
> But yes, the youth of today are all losers.
>
> (I'm 15)

Watch what you say. "All losers"? "All" includes yourself. What makes you think that way? I'm sure you wouldn't hang out with people you call 'losers'.

Megaman
03-06-2004, 10:11 PM
> But yes, the youth of today are all losers.

OI! That was too far!


> (I'm 15)

I don't care if you're 15 or 115, it dosen't justify what you said.


Grrr...

DangerousDave
03-06-2004, 11:19 PM
I think that theres starting to be a idea formed that many teenagers around are immature and obnoxious etc etc, i couldn't agree more, but some of us (me included) still work our asses off. I mean, sure i'm immature most of the time, but i'm usually under such extreme pressure to do well in school etc that its a vent... i mean, who didn't have fun as a child! So why not try be one agin.

theres my 2.0cents

- David

Murray P
03-06-2004, 11:35 PM
Megaman & sy, please don't be so sensitive. Try not to take things that don't matter and aren't intended to, too seriously, k. :)

Cheers Murray P

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
03-06-2004, 11:42 PM
> Megaman & sy, please don't be so sensitive. Try not
> to take things that don't matter and aren't intended
> to, too seriously, k. :)

Don't worry, I'm not. I just wanted to let you all know that teens aren't as bad as they may seem at times. They are constantly under peer-pressure etc. from everywhere. As David said, we are making the most out of it while we can ;-)

metla
03-06-2004, 11:48 PM
Off course teens are as bad as they seem, but they grow out of it. Teenagers are still closer to being children then they are to being adults.

I wouldn't call them losers, but they are still finding their feet.

And wait to you move on from peer-pressure to financial pressure, responsibility pressure, employment-pressure and all the other types of pressure that go along with being the bread winner for a family… suddenly the brand name on your shoes doesn’t matter anymore…

TonyF
04-06-2004, 12:31 AM
> Off course teens are as bad as they seem, but they
> grow out of it. Teenagers are still closer to being
> children then they are to being adults.
>
> I wouldn't call them losers, but they are still
> finding their feet.
We seem to have moved from the specific to the general. The thread started off mentioning a bunch in a school whose every second word was swearing. Sounded a bit like a school where a bit of strictness in behaviour was needed. Rough on the teachers when the school style slips. Bad kids ? Probably no. But not off to the best of starts.

metla
04-06-2004, 12:40 AM
Yeah,but if the worst thing that has happened to a person recently is to hear a kid swear........They should smile and congragulate themselves for having an excellent week.

Society hasn't got worse overall,its allways dipping,climbing,sliding all over the place,this period we are in now(post ww2) has been nothing but a peaceful calm time for all of us....compared to what came before that is,and for what maybe on the horizen(thanks Mr Bush)

Now i could understand it if his entire family caught the plauge or he was shipped to aussie for stealing bread.....

DangerousDave
04-06-2004, 09:30 AM
'our generation has had no great war, no great depression. Our war is a holy war, our depression is our lives'
- Tyler Durden

Chilling_Silence
04-06-2004, 09:47 AM
> Yeah,but if the worst thing that has happened to a
> person recently is to hear a kid swear........They
> should smile and congragulate themselves for having
> an excellent week.
That is true - And on another note:
If a the worst thing a teenager does is swear during a week, then they too should congratulate themselves for not succumbing to the ways of this world when it comes to drugs, fornication (Think STD's), and many other things!