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View Full Version : look at this... try to copy Australia's broadband way!!!



jackyht
23-05-2004, 01:34 AM
hey guys

look at this news on the website by stuff http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2915182a28,00.html

Paul Swain and the commission will tell telecom to make the speed to 512k by march???

hmm wot do u think??? tell u wot, australia telstra or other network already using 512k since beginning of the year? how come we still can't use that here???

and wot? telecom is scared of telstraclear? wot a joke that is!!!

jacky

kiki
23-05-2004, 02:41 AM
>> Telecom has said it will provide in March next year a wholesale broadband internet service at double the speed of what will be regulated.
>> The regulated speed will be 256 kilobits a second, but the service in March will be 512kbs.

Next year :^O Great stuff genius :|

Noel Nosivad
23-05-2004, 04:18 AM
jackyht,

I don't think Telecom are scared of Telstraclear, they are scared of Telstra Corporation. Telstra bought out Telecom in Australia many years ago, it's never a wonder that some of them has never heard the word Telecom in over 20 years in Australia.

Look what Telstra did here, they bought/joined with Clear. This obviously was a method to compete against their rival, I wonder how good that's been going. Telecom has always been strong in New Zealand, and it's hard to believe that there's going to be much impact from their competitors.

I would assume Telecom are watching Telstra closely, and wouldn't be thinking it's a joke.


Noel Nosivad

whetu
23-05-2004, 10:22 AM
they are copying australian broadband... just look at the new DSL plans where they *supposedly, but not yet* limit to "dial up speeds" when your cap is reached...

Which was probably due to pressure from a Mr David Mill of InSPire.net fame, and guess who suggested the idea to him ;)

(ego++)

I've heard a lot of people complain about this idea and how stupid they think it is.. but hey - the alternative is that you go past your cap and start paying up to 20c per meg or more! Be like me - queue some downloads, go away for a week to your parents place to setup another pc for them, come back and discover you'd been uncapped and had chewed through about 56 gigs... anyone fancy a $760 internet bill? (Anyone seen the korean family who moved over here and racked up over 5 and a half grand on DSL in a month, just using it "as we normally would back home" ?)

or would you rather just be automatically speed limited and get the same bill you got last month?

Thought so ;)

kiki
23-05-2004, 10:39 PM
Problems start when if you really go over your limit (eg 20Gb+ over) then they have a clause in there which says they can charge you for that usage because you misused their service.

For example, the new Woosh terms and conditions state that. (They got updated and went into effect like 2 days ago).

I think thats a real shambles. With Woosh you pay $55 a month for unlimited data, yet they think they can then turn around when you go over the 7Gb limit and ring you up make you change your plan, or even worse charge you for the data you went over. BS.

If you look in the dictionary, unlimited means: without limit; unrestricted; very great in number or quantity.

If they tried to do any of that to me, I'd complain of false advertising to the commerce commission and take them to the small claims tribunal. No Terms of Service (which I didn't physically sign) will overrule the Consumer Guarantees and Fair Trading Acts.

daskip
24-05-2004, 09:52 AM
Ahh sorry but no. The old Australian Telecom IS Telstra. No buy outs occurred. They just changed their name in an effort to project a more modern image. And no even near 20 years ago....

Big John
24-05-2004, 11:44 AM
> Paul Swain and the commission will tell telecom to
> make the speed to 512k by march???

Actually it does not say that at all. It says 256k but Telecom out of the goodness of their heart will make it 512k

daskip
24-05-2004, 08:37 PM
Awww it makes me all warm and fuzzy.

To think, in 10 months time we'll get 1/3rd of Aussies pace. Woohoo!!

Mike
24-05-2004, 08:45 PM
> To think, in 10 months time we'll get 1/3rd of
> Aussies pace. Woohoo!!

If you want the speed, then pay the money and get full Jetstream. It's been available in NZ for a while at 2Mb and faster. Stop griping about it. Everyone just seems to want something for nothing - but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Mike.

_mike_
24-05-2004, 08:57 PM
No one is asking for a free lunch, we are asking for a service that reflects the reality of the cost to provide it. Full speed Jetstream is available for home users with a whopping 1Gb cap. Do the math on how long that will take to download at 2 - 8Mbs, then take a moderate example, say you download 5Gb a month - 4Gb @ 20c/Mb = One Nasty Telecom bill. Even excess data charges of 5c/Mb are believable, but 20c/Mb is nothing short of daylight robbery.

Mike
24-05-2004, 09:06 PM
> No one is asking for a free lunch, we are asking for
> a service that reflects the reality of the cost to
> provide it. Full speed Jetstream is available for

So its much cheaper for Telecom to provide faster internet than they make out? I'm not so sure about that.

> home users with a whopping 1Gb cap. Do the math on
> how long that will take to download at 2 - 8Mbs, then
> take a moderate example, say you download 5Gb a month
> - 4Gb @ 20c/Mb = One Nasty Telecom bill. Even excess
> data charges of 5c/Mb are believable, but 20c/Mb is
> nothing short of daylight robbery.

LOL I have to pay 10c per 10KB downloaded on one of my internet accounts ;) It's reasonably fast though. I think 20c/MB isn't too bad :)

Mike.

_mike_
24-05-2004, 09:21 PM
Perhaps, but it is hard to believe they [Telecom] are struggling along when they post a massive profit [$700mil year to June 2003?]... not that I am against them doing well, I just don't expect them to do well and overcharge at the same time :-)

_mike_
24-05-2004, 09:35 PM
ps. from last years annual report:

"internet service provider xtra
continues to see good growth with
customers up 13% and revenue up 27%
on the previous year"

;-)

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
24-05-2004, 09:40 PM
Hello!?!?!?, there are people out there called Telecom Shareholders. They want profits. Most businesses would be non-existent if their aims wasn't to make a profit.

_mike_
24-05-2004, 09:52 PM
/rant

Yes indeed, and most (apparently) are foreign investors. Telecom is in a unique position that is pivotal for our economy. I appreciate that they must deliver a profit to their shareholders; I also believe that they have an ethical obligation as the provider of the vast majority of NZ's telecomms infrastructure to not take gross advantage of that situation.

Anyway, we will simply have to wait and see what happens post the decision not to unbundle the local loop. If ISPs are given reasonable wholesale products to work with we will find out what the real cost of providing fast internet is very quickly.

/rant

Big John
25-05-2004, 06:38 PM
> > To think, in 10 months time we'll get 1/3rd of
> > Aussies pace. Woohoo!!
>
> If you want the speed, then pay the money and get
> full Jetstream. It's been available in NZ for a
> while at 2Mb and faster. Stop griping about it.
> Everyone just seems to want something for nothing -
> but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Yes but it's not as if we can go somewhere else and get a high speed connection as Telecom still own that last little bit of the copper wire. And don't start with you can go on Whoosh as 99.9% of NZ probably cant get it yet and it has the same problems as IHug satellite has in that it is no good for games.

All we want is a fair price and reasonable speed.

Duck
25-05-2004, 06:50 PM
I think you're talking nonsense Mike...
Telecom's cost of international bandwidth would be in the order of 0.2 to 0.5 cents per MB, or maybe even less. So where they pay $2 per GB they charge us $200 on full Jetstream over the cap...

I think the term ripp-off is appropriate...

Mike
25-05-2004, 08:11 PM
> I think you're talking nonsense Mike...
> Telecom's cost of international bandwidth would be in
> the order of 0.2 to 0.5 cents per MB, or maybe even
> less. So where they pay $2 per GB they charge us $200
> on full Jetstream over the cap...

Where do you get those figures from?

Mike.

daskip
25-05-2004, 08:35 PM
> If you want the speed, then pay the money and get
> full Jetstream. It's been available in NZ for a
> while at 2Mb and faster. Stop griping about it.
> Everyone just seems to want something for nothing -
> but there's no such thing as a free lunch.
>
> Mike.
Something for nothing?? Don't get me wrong I'm willing to pay, but not at rates and limits I KNOW are only possible because of a monopoly.

Hmmm.

So lets look at the full jetstream product shall we?

1GB limit for 2Megabits per second. Then 20c per excess Megabyte.

As a user it is completely unusable. Its not safe. I don't want 100's in excess charges, or even the threat of 100's in excess charges. For example Download two game demos and guess what - I'm paying a charge per megabyte that in no way reflects the cost to provide the service. Or god forbid I get a virus that creates internet traffic...
How do I know that?
$80 / 1024 meg free = 7.8c a meg

And if we take into account fixed costs of providing a DSL connection (lets say about the wholesale rate Telstra charges in Oz, $30 (about to be reduced further..)
($80 - $30) / 1024 = 4.9c a meg.

So why am I being charged 20c a meg? Because of a monopoly, thats why. And these calculations are not even taking into account the fact that the full-speed accounts have a great price premium anyway. The per meg charges for 10GB (plus shaping) Jetsurf is .6c per MB. Half a cent.

What ever happened to offering a range of products and speeds that suit different customers needs?? Not the polar opposites like we have right now. You know, like a 1Mbps 5GB plan then shaping. Or a 512k one... how bout a pricing structure that allows you to mix and match speeds and limits?? How bout offering the safety of shaping on more than just one plan?? With all the options in Oz, thats the effective situation there (www.whirlpool.net.au). Telecom are skimming the cream with one plan and offering fat-free milk with the other, there is no middle ground.

But it ain't going to happen here, as we don't have competition, but a protected monopoly.

Cheers.

Duck
25-05-2004, 08:55 PM
Well look at this:

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/daily/2003/ror0904.shtml and you know what one of the smaller players (Slingshot) is paying