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XOtagoScarfie
15-05-2004, 06:19 PM
Well this is definitely off topic, but has anyone tried either Coopers or Easy Strip to restore anything?

www.easystip.co.nz
http://www.coopers-restoration.co.nz/

Cheers for any help as we are doing up an old villa

merlin a
15-05-2004, 06:25 PM
Coppers is over priced for what it does.
An ordinary wood stripper from M10 does the same job and is a hella a lot cheaper.
Just follow the instructions and make sure you wash all wood stripper of after you have finished, because if you repaint (heaven forbid) paint dont like wood stripper.

cheers merlin a ;-)

XOtagoScarfie
15-05-2004, 06:30 PM
Not so much looking to repaint rather to get that natural wood finish

Cheers

godfather
15-05-2004, 07:25 PM
Depends on the wood type.

Some strippers "bleach" the wood too much, and take all the character out. Kauri is one such wood, be careful what you use on it. The slower the stripper they are, the gentler usually.

I tend to use a tungsten carbide scraper (Linbide brand) for removing paint wherever possible first.

Never use "dip stripping" services for doors, as apart from bleaching it often destroys all the glued joints so a door becomes a pile of timber....

Murray P
15-05-2004, 07:31 PM
What exactly are you wanting to strip. Is it old varnish, paint, shellac?

Unfortunately there is no substitute for elbow grease if you want a clear finish. And some skill in hiding defects, if that is your desire although, for some a rustic, recycled appearance is fine.

For paints and polyurethane/varnish and shaped mouldings a caustic based stripper that you can get from your local hardware/paint shop is fine. If you've a lot to do a pale of commercial stripper should be cheaper and perhaps more effective. The less sanding or burning you do with coatings. especially if lead based paints are present the better for your health (always wear a decent mask anyway). Scrape, reapply more solution as necessary, scrape, repeat if necessary......... then wash the caustic out of the timber, scrape, sand/steel wool to finish and wash with turp's to give a final clean and show up any remaining defects (turp's also gives a very good idea of what a clear, oiled or waxed finish will look like). If you get too enthusiastic with stripper in an effort to lesson the elbow grease you can discolour the timber and raise the nap of the grain creating more work in the long run.

Shellac will come off with almost anything. Window cleaner has shown promise but caustic will do.

Some solvents will do a very nice job of stripping anything including the inside of your lungs.

Solvents and caustic can have a detrimental effect on some glues. Handy if you want to dismantle then rebuild the family heirloom though.

If you have a reasonable amount of flat surface to work with a decent belt sander starting with course and moving down to fine grit abrasive is pretty quick, watch you don't poison the family with lead, growing children are especially susceptible. do corners by hand or strip, finish off by hand. Personally I don't like orbital sanders except to get the worst off in corners, etc.

Hot air guns or burners are not good near glass or scrim backed paper linings. Make sure you are ensured for this activity. Move the family and contents out.

Have fun.

Cheers Murray P

XOtagoScarfie
15-05-2004, 07:47 PM
Mainly looking to strip old windows of paint, the previous owners have partially stripped down the window frames but haven't oiled or waxed them plus there stripping wasn't the best job. And yes they have dipped the doors, what do you reccomend for recovering the doors(rimu)?

Plus is wax or danish oil best to finish?

Guess I liked the supposed ease of coopers and though easy strip might be a cheap alternative with minimal elbow grease.

Cheers for the input so far people.

Murray P
15-05-2004, 08:22 PM
Are the doors discoloured, nap raised or both?

If moderately furry, sanding with a fine(ish) sand paper around 220-240 grit or course steel wool (Polly pad consistency) is probably your best bet.

If the timber's fibres have been damaged more deeply or discoloured, judicious use of a mechanical sander, joiners scraper (flat rectangular piece of metal with burred edges) a really sharp butt plane or all the above may be needed.

Putting them on a drum sander at your local joiners is ok if you don't mind the sanding marks across the grain. Plus you still need to do the edges and mouldings by hand also, little room for error due to the rate at which the machine can remove timber.

I don't like oil or wax on joinery. Great for furniture, depending on it's use, and handrails (interior) as it is easily replaced. Just gets dirty on joinery and does not afford the timber enough protection particularly around windows where moisture, sun and grubby little fingers put the acid on any coating.

If you want to bring out the grain in faded joinery (after a good sand/scrape, of course) moisture cure polyurethane like that used on floors is excellent. It's harder to apply than standard poly but worth it. Don't use one with a gloss level higher than 50% though, IMO. Don't use acrylics again, IMO.

Why not get some Cooper's and some Selly's (or some such) and have a strip off on a test area. Use waste timber or somewhere that wont get too much scrutiny

Cheers Murray P

Terry Porritt
15-05-2004, 08:28 PM
I've become hooked on Danish Oil recently. It is expensive compared to beeswax or linseed oil but it looks good after rubbing down with #0000 grade super fine steel wool. 2 or 3 coats are required.

Terry Porritt
15-05-2004, 08:32 PM
Just seen Murrays comments re oil and wax on window frames etc. Probably have to agree with that, I was thinking of interior rimu cabinet work and bookshelves etc

Steve Askew
15-05-2004, 09:57 PM
Heres a product (http://www.eastag.co.nz/haarlem) I have used & recommend, I used it on a coffee table a mate built for us out of recycled rimu & one of the good things is that it doesn't go blotchy like some products such as Tung Oil when the surface comes into contact with water.

Steve

brewer
15-05-2004, 11:20 PM
At last, a real topic. Strippers generally destroy organic material quickly, so the longer/ the stronger/ the more wrecking of timber. Old paints have many toxins as do new paints, so stripping with minimum heat/chemical breakdown of the structure is best. Large flakes good, small flakes bad. Vapour; hope your family is complete. Wood has a structure; large veins stuffed with delicate organic material. Nice stuff.

XOtagoScarfie
16-05-2004, 05:19 PM
Cheers thanks to everyone who has contributed so far, looks like i've got a lot of work ahead

Cheers

Terry Porritt
16-05-2004, 06:48 PM
As an aside, with all the millions of pine trees in New Zealand why cant we have REAL turpentine. I havent seen any for sale in so-called hardware shops for years and years.
It used to be available at least in the UK for the same price as mineral turps substitute, going way back, it doesnt seem all that long ago.

Neither do we now have any real varnishes or laquers, made from natural gums and resins.
Possibly shellac is still available, I have a bag of it still.

Instead we have polyurethane rubbish these days :(

Even 'enamel' paint is a misnomer in NZ, I just couldnt understand what was meant by 'enamel' when I came here, it was certainly never an oil based paint in the UK, so how it came to be called that here is a mystery to me.

It was a quick drying, probably cellulose based brightly coloured paint supposedly to imitate the hard enamelling of broaches and trinkets etc. as carried out as a speciality trade in Brum when such items were used as trade among the natives in outlandish places :)

Hardware shops were called 'dry-salters' and sold product loose from boxes and barrels, in brown paper bags, never a pre-wrapped, or sealed item in sight.
The old shop owners would turn in their graves at the sight of nails and screws in little plastic boxes.

beetle
16-05-2004, 07:04 PM
Hi ya,

Wel we are in the process of renovating and redecorating our house and have found our stair case is rimu and stripped it back with a stripper (2nd brand we tried) from resene that works really well and is not as strong smelling as other stuff we have tried. its a resene made / branded one but works well and the timber looks lovely, we have yet to decide how to coat it after we sand it down, we want to retain as natural a colour of the wood as possible.

well worth the hard yakker of scraping and stripper.

sacriledge these people that paint over such nice wood as Rimu.

best of luck.

beetle

Murray P
16-05-2004, 08:01 PM
TP, a man after my own heart. I can't stand the fiddly little clear packs of screws, tacks, rivets, etc, they dish up at, supermarket, hardware stores and builders supplies. Brown paper bags or liitle cardboard boxes and a set of scales is all you need and a by each price of course.

The vegitable turpentine sold at the Haarlem oil site provided by Steve is probably good old wood turpentine extracted from pine or macrocarpa (ever seen how well green macrocarpa needles burn?).

A couple of refernce books I use for finding out the intricacies of various materials and construction methods are George A. & A. M. Mitchell's Building Construction, Elementary and Advanced Course. Subtitled: A text book for the principles and details of modern construction for the use of students and pratical men (no room for PC principles here lads ;) ). 16th edition published 1947.


Cheers Murray P

flyingkiwi01
02-09-2006, 04:05 PM
Hi
i have a question.
I have a rimu dinning suite and it has a wax coating on it.
what is the best way to remove the wax (rimu)

DeSade
02-09-2006, 04:15 PM
Post necromancy is not a good idea.

FoxyMX
02-09-2006, 04:31 PM
Post necromancy is not a good idea.

I think in this case it is OK. Only trouble is that a lot of the people who posted good info here don't look in on the forum as much as they used to so it might be hard to grab their attention again.

martynz
02-09-2006, 07:00 PM
I've seen those Cooper's ads and watched a demo, it looks too easy.
I asked an antique dealer about it and his comment was "Its expensive and not as easy as it looks".
Like previous posters have suggested, use a mildish paint stripper and lots of care.
Many years ago I was told by a time served carpenter that the best, if not the easiest, method of removing paint from wood was careful scraping with the edge of broken glass fragments. Imagine doing that as part of your apprenticeship.
Btw, if this forum keeps being so helpful on DIY topics I'm about to post a couple of requests for advice.

Martynz

Cicero
02-09-2006, 07:21 PM
Hi
i have a question.
I have a rimu dinning suite and it has a wax coating on it.
what is the best way to remove the wax (rimu)
Then having removed the wax,what finish will you give it?

bonzo29
04-09-2006, 03:58 PM
As an aside, with all the millions of pine trees in New Zealand why cant we have REAL turpentine. I havent seen any for sale in so-called hardware shops for years and years.
It used to be available at least in the UK for the same price as mineral turps substitute, going way back, it doesnt seem all that long ago.

Neither do we now have any real varnishes or laquers, made from natural gums and resins.
Possibly shellac is still available, I have a bag of it still.

Instead we have polyurethane rubbish these days :(

Even 'enamel' paint is a misnomer in NZ, I just couldnt understand what was meant by 'enamel' when I came here, it was certainly never an oil based paint in the UK, so how it came to be called that here is a mystery to me.




It was a quick drying, probably cellulose based brightly coloured paint supposedly to imitate the hard enamelling of broaches and trinkets etc. as carried out as a speciality trade in Brum when such items were used as trade among the natives in outlandish places :)

Hardware shops were called 'dry-salters' and sold product loose from boxes and barrels, in brown paper bags, never a pre-wrapped, or sealed item in sight.
The old shop owners would turn in their graves at the sight of nails and screws in little plastic boxes.

Terry,
I don't think drysalters were hardware merchants, generally they sold chemicals etc and in the north of England wholesalers who sold a range of grocery products primarily , as you state, in loose form
were also called drysalters !

Thomas01
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
Why not get some Cooper's and some Selly's (or some such) and have a strip off on a test area. Use waste timber or somewhere that wont get too much scrutiny


I think the original questioner was trying to find out about Coopers really. Well I have tried several times to buy "some Coopers" and it is obvious the advert is a come on. A small sample is impossible to buy and I got sales talk about somebody coming round to do the job.
I just had a small piece of "G Plan" furniture to strip and thought it would be an ideal thing to try out on. A typical 10 minute job.
I notice nobody has actually answered the question.
It's probably time Consumers had a look at the firm and what it does.

Cicero
04-09-2006, 05:06 PM
Drysalters were dealers in a range of chemical products, including glue, varnish, dye and colourings. They might supply salt or chemicals for preserving food and sometimes also sold pickles, dried meat or related items. The name drysalter or dry-salter was in use in the United Kingdom by the early 18th century[1] when some drysalters concentrated on ingredients for producing dyes, and it was still current in the first part of the 20th century.

Drysaltery is closely linked to the occupation of salter which in the Middle Ages simply meant someone who traded in salt. By the end of the 14th century there was a guild of salters in London. Later salter was also used to refer to people employed in a salt works, or in salting fish or meat, as well as to drysalters.

In 1726 Daniel Defoe described a tradesman involved in the "buying of cochineal, indigo, galls, shumach, logwood, fustick, madder, and the like" as both dry-salter and salter. The Salters' Livery Company tells us that "some of the members who were salt traders were also 'Drysalters' and dealt in flax, hemp, logwood, cochineal, potashes and chemical preparations."

Being a drysalter might be combined with manufacturing - paint, for example - or with trading as a chemist/druggist or ironmonger/hardware merchant.

Graham L
04-09-2006, 06:09 PM
You could look at the wikipedia article Drysalter (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drysalter) for a description.

godfather
04-09-2006, 06:21 PM
Which obviously Cicero did, since it's word for word - naughty...

Cicero
04-09-2006, 06:56 PM
Which obviously Cicero did, since it's word for word - naughty...
Oh dear,surely it was obvious that info was from web.
Never pretended to be a bleedin expert on,what was it?Drysalters.

godfather
04-09-2006, 08:43 PM
Oh dear,surely it was obvious that info was from web.
Never pretended to be a bleedin expert on,what was it?Drysalters.

But the forum owners can get done for breach of copyright...unless you give attribution to the source (e.g a URL to where you got it).

And here was me thinking you had learnt some real fancy words - I should have known better....

Cicero
04-09-2006, 08:54 PM
But the forum owners can get done for breach of copyright...unless you give attribution to the source (e.g a URL to where you got it).

And here was me thinking you had learnt some real fancy words - I should have known better....

Yes that is likely to happen,Mr Wicky will be quite upset I am sure.
I can see the need to explicate ones self in some company,I was hoping for better.

Graham L
05-09-2006, 01:05 PM
GF: if it contains more than 2 lines and shows evidence of careful compilation, it's not by "Cicero".

The convention is that if you are quoting someone else's work, you put it in quotes, italics, or indicate in some way that it is a quotation. The other essential is the attribution. If you don't do either of those things, "it looks as if you are claiming it as your own [work]". The technical term is plagiarism (www.vuw.ac.nz/st_Services/slss/study/plagiarism/Avoiding-plagiarism.pdf). That link contains some hints (and is the source of my quote [emphasis added] ).

Murray P
05-09-2006, 01:32 PM
GF: if it contains more than 2 lines and shows evidence of careful compilation, it's not by "Cicero". :lol:



Hi
i have a question.
I have a rimu dinning suite and it has a wax coating on it.
what is the best way to remove the wax (rimu)

As per Cici's post, what do you want to replace the wax with?

For removal, a little solvent (white spirits or wood turps, perhaps, Cici?), 0000 steel wool and gentle elbow grease.

I've swung away from waxing to oiling, apply with same grade steel wool and a lint free cloth, in layers to firstly feed the timber then provide a durable finish. Both oil and wax require maintenance (wax more so), but offer a better finish IMO and an easier finish to restore when the time comes.

Cicero
05-09-2006, 02:14 PM
Murray, flying chappie seems to have departed.One can try to second guess what he wants to do after removing wax,but better me thinks to wait for a reply.

If you like being pedantic and like to go on at length about a subject which you have studied, but nobody else is remotely interested in and hope to impress those who one regards with some disdain,then I can give you a name.

Murray P
05-09-2006, 02:20 PM
Murray, flying chappie seems to have departed.One can try to second guess what he wants to do after removing wax,but better me thinks to wait for a reply.

If you like being pedantic and like to go on at length about a subject which you have studied, but nobody else is remotely interested in and hope to impress those who one regards with some disdain,then I can give you a name.


:xmouth: ahem! Please do.

piersdad
06-09-2006, 09:15 PM
Many years ago I was told by a time served carpenter that the best, if not the easiest, method of removing paint from wood was careful scraping with the edge of broken glass fragments. Imagine doing that as part of your apprenticeship

some way back this advise was posted.
i do a lot of cello making and use glass as a scraper all the time.
some bits of old window glass are no good but if you get a good piece then it is as good as a very high class wood plane.
I often use bits of glass to remove as much as 1 milimeter of wood.

iIdont mind now days if the kids break a window

Murray P
07-09-2006, 06:41 PM
some way back this advise was posted.
i do a lot of cello making and use glass as a scraper all the time.
some bits of old window glass are no good but if you get a good piece then it is as good as a very high class wood plane.
I often use bits of glass to remove as much as 1 milimeter of wood.

iIdont mind now days if the kids break a window


Yep, one of my old journeymen in the shop swore by it, glass that is.

klutzman
11-10-2006, 07:09 PM
...and what happened to horses hooves glue in the joinery shop? I'm new to this forum, but wondered if anyone could give me advice on the cheapest, bestest, easiest, way to revive some old wooden "directors chairs" that have been in the weather too long. The timber of the arms has greyed and the grain is groovy, if you know what I mean. I thought linseed oil might be a good idea, but would welcome advice.

Murray P
12-10-2006, 12:52 AM
You can get outdoor furniture oil/reviver from any decent paint shop or hardware store. How good it is I have no idea, but like anything left outside it will need maintenance.

Cicero
12-10-2006, 01:00 PM
...and what happened to horses hooves glue in the joinery shop? I'm new to this forum, but wondered if anyone could give me advice on the cheapest, bestest, easiest, way to revive some old wooden "directors chairs" that have been in the weather too long. The timber of the arms has greyed and the grain is groovy, if you know what I mean. I thought linseed oil might be a good idea, but would welcome advice.
Raw linseed oil I would suggest will do the trick..

Thomas01
13-10-2006, 07:47 PM
Raw linseed oil I would suggest will do the trick..

I always use Boiled Linseed Oil but darned if I know the difference. The stuff I use seems to be fine for the job and I have used it for 60 years or so (no not the same bottle).
For tuff jobs we always used CREOSOTE in the UK but I have never seen it sold in NZ.
I know we used some most unsuitable timber for fence posts in 1942 or so and they were sunk into 3 ft of soil after creosoting. About 20 year later when they were dragged out to be replaced by better quality timber we were pleased to see the old timber was in perfect condition and had not degraded at all.
Tom

Cicero
14-10-2006, 08:10 AM
Creosote is a tar product,a bi-product of the old gas works.
Not usually used on furniture-smell and staining.
Raw tends to soak in better than boiled,boiled usually forming a skin.

Strommer
14-10-2006, 09:08 AM
Coopers works well. Had a demo of it a few years back and was impressed how easily the old varnish came off the interior windows. Then I balked at the price. Still have not done anything on those windows but will use an alternative, cheaper. A friend used Coopers on windows and doors and he found it good but not as easy as the TV demo shows. Basically, I'd say if you have a lot of refinishing to do, and need a lot of Coopers then it is worthwhile buying; in small amounts it is expensive compared to other brands.

Thomas01
14-10-2006, 09:49 AM
Raw tends to soak in better than boiled,boiled usually forming a skin.

Now I know - thanks Cicero. I will try raw linseed very soon as my bottle of boiled is just about empty.
I knew creosote was from gas works but am rather puzled by the fact that even when we were first here and the gasworks in Christchurch were going full blast I still found it impossible to buy creosote.
Apparently in the USA creosote is still the most used preservative - must know a thing or two those Yanks
Tom

Cicero
14-10-2006, 10:20 AM
Now I know - thanks Cicero. I will try raw linseed very soon as my bottle of boiled is just about empty.
I knew creosote was from gas works but am rather puzzled by the fact that even when we were first here and the gasworks in Christchurch were going full blast I still found it impossible to buy creosote.
Apparently in the USA creosote is still the most used preservative - must know a thing or two those Yanks
Tom

Am pretty sure one could get creosote here,but would like that confirmed by older kiwi on here.
I am a pom also.

klutzman
21-10-2006, 08:01 PM
Thanks for the tips, gentlemen! After reading the comments and checking with a couple of handymen locally I've decided to try to revive the wood of the directors chairs with a fifty-fifty mix of raw linseed oil and mineral turpentine. The oil will certainly help to restore the wood, and the turps helps the oil penetrate and to some extent prevents the tacky feeling linseed oil can leave behind. Well, that's the theory. I should be able to get around the to job in a day or two, and will try to remember to report back on the results. I'll also use the same mixture for the "annual" wipe-over for other wooden outdoor furniture.