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View Full Version : So be it. [user mod discussion, please read - Bruce]



metla
11-05-2004, 02:02 PM
So be it.

If the moderators insist that the answer to the Aroc and crew situation is for me to leave rather then for them to do the job they take responsibility for then I shall move on.

I have to admit I had a heap of fun and enjoyed the sharing of ideas, knowledge, questions, answers and the personalities that make up PressF1. Enjoyed ruffling many a feather along the way as well....LMAO.

PressF1 I salute you all.


Meh…..the melodrama is killing me.

robsonde
11-05-2004, 02:23 PM
sorry to see you leave.....


/rant waring!

I usally dont get involved in threads about abuse and such like but in this case I do think that Metla has a point.

in the other thread he says "In that case moderate the place better,and no its irrelivent if you cant read em all,get more people if need be."

from where I am sitting BB has over looked htis part of his post and simply defendeds himself with the "we cant read them all....."
with all due respect BB that is crap and you know it!!.
Metla himself has pointed out that you should "get more people if need be", this has been brought up many times before, I know that you dont get paid to look after this forum but sevral times it has come up that we could have more moderators selected form the users themselves.

I feel that the way this board is run makes PCworld look bad and it makes IDG look bad.

lets get more moderators and lets get then now!.


/end rant

Biggles
11-05-2004, 02:59 PM
>If the moderators insist that the answer to the Aroc and crew situation is for me to leave rather then for them to do the job they take responsibility for then I shall move on.

That is not what I said. Aroc has been banned by me, twice. Others have been banned too.

Capt.Hook
11-05-2004, 03:55 PM
See ya later

stu120404
11-05-2004, 04:16 PM
Bye bye metla, it was nice having you around :)

Another person (Number 3) bits the dust & left due to abuse or other reasons

I wonder how many other regulars will leave?

Graham L
11-05-2004, 04:20 PM
This has never been a moderated site. It has been run on the, perhaps excessively hopeful, idea that people could be trusted to behave in a reasonably mature way.

My personal view is that children should learn some minimum rules of social behaviour, if not at home, then at kindergartens, or schools.

The complaint here seems to be "we can't be trusted to behave ourselves, so it's IDG's fault because they haven't stopped us". It's not. It's not Bruce's or Robo's fault. It's the fault of a small number of people who hide behind pseudonyms and abuse others. This is inane, immature behaviour. Some of them are so-called "grown-ups". :O

I object to abuse, tantrums, more abuse, then page after page of "you started it", "didn't", "did so", "waah, waah" ad nauseum, which is infantile. It's not entertaining. It is stupid. It's a total waste of time.

"IDG should employ full-time moderators"? Rubbish. They've got magazines to produce. This behaviour does not reflect badly on PC World. It reflects badly on those who behave badly.

Biggles
11-05-2004, 04:30 PM
I agree that the site seems to need more moderation. Which as robsonde points out, raises the issues of appointing mods from within the PressF1 group. We have looked at this in the past and been reluctant to go down that path because it raises the whole behaviour bar and the needs for hard rules to a new level. Anyone appointed mod then has to justify their behaviour that much more, and well, things do get messy as anyone who has frequented other forums will know. You end up with massive arguments where users keep holding various mods to account for decisions made.

But, if that is what is needed then we can do it. I've investigated the means for it and hopefully worked out how it's to be done. I would propose a trial of this, with 2 or 3 moderators. I have some views on who they should be but if anyone has strong views on the subject - speak now.

PoWa.
11-05-2004, 04:42 PM
> PressF1 I salute you all.

Jeez I hope I haven't started a chain reaction or something. Next Graham will be leaving when he reaches 5000posts :^O

What me and metla are trying to say is that we made a killing off our broken glass business (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=46301) and are now retiring on the profits (several million to be exact). We're off to the bahamas to avoid the IRD. Now hurry up and pack your bags metla, the secrets out!!

robsonde
11-05-2004, 04:44 PM
I would like to put foward Graham L for the job as he always thinks before acting and spends alot of time online.

B.M.
11-05-2004, 05:01 PM
Personally I don’t think the site needs any more moderators.

There are only the few ill-mannered, smart Aleck, brats that I’m sure Bruce and Robbo are perfectly capable of handling. It’s just a matter of one warning and your out if you don’t behave.

I also endorse Graham L’s post 100%.

Biggles
11-05-2004, 05:08 PM
Some user mods would simply increase our coverage, enabling a quicker response to "issues" during non work hours.

Jester
11-05-2004, 05:10 PM
Personally I feel that having moderators apart from BB and Robo would lead to a situation where users would try and bait them to 'moderate', with predictably less than desirable results.

The best advice I can give to anyone regarding this sort of situation is to IGNORE those causing problems. They want you to respond, and by replying you give them what they want. No one ever wins. Moderaters chosen from forum participants would create further challenges for the stirrers.

J
:D

metla
11-05-2004, 05:15 PM
The assigned moderator(s) should be operating under an alias.

Biggles
11-05-2004, 05:20 PM
That wouldn't be a problem. We can set up new "moderator" users which mods can use. They need to log in to the Admin screen seperately anyhow. I think this would be wise.

The mods would be have the power to edit/delete threads/posts and lock threads, but would not have access to user accounts and so would not be able to lock out or delete a user. The need to do so would be refered to Rob or myself.

somebody
11-05-2004, 05:28 PM
I second what you say Jester. Although there have been times where I have read posts, and wanted to have moderator powers to lock the thread simply because people were biting each other's heads off (and Bruce/robo hadn't closed the thread yet), but that would just cause problems.

The forum is just fine as it is. Some of the new members (and some old ones) just need to consider others, and realise this is a PUBLIC forum, to think before they open their mouths (or move their fingers and type), and be reasonable towards everyone else. Everyone can be happy if everyone does their part to make this a plesant place. The majority of users are, but it's the odd one who just annoys the hell out of others which causes a chain reaction.

In saying that however, I put my hand up as a possible volunteer moderator.

merlin-nz
11-05-2004, 05:30 PM
Leave as is, if yah break the rules, (and I'm sure we all know them) yah get yah butt kicked offa the team.

So simple the at the kindergarten that I work at is better behaved than some here but no names.

If some so called adults abuse the rules be like me and, hell ignore the thread and don;t answer them.

Soon get tired of writing to themselves.

Hell I hate this sort of topic.


cheers merlin-nz ;-)

Murray P
11-05-2004, 06:21 PM
I'm not sure if you can modify anyones behavior by having more people watching over the forum, just as asking them to desist, politely or otherwise has no effect. Banning them is just as futile with it only being a minor annoyance to re-register under another name and addy, I suspect some take great satisfaction from being banned.

Ignoring the posts is probably the most effective option but, speaking for myself only, have found it impossible to ignore all comments. Editing/deleting the contents of the offending posts is IMO the best workable action that can be taken. If PF1 goes down this road, it will need the user mod's to be both mature and willing participants and be without any, overt, axes to grind (except reasonable behavior, good sp1lling, strict punctuation and grammar ;) ). I can only think of two or three that fit the (my) criteria of a user mod.

As per Graham's post, I think it is unreasonable to expect the admin's to spend their spare time chasing a few tossers around the forum. Most people don't enjoy working beyond normal hours or taking business calls late at night when they should be doing other things. So why expect it of the admin's, they might be enthusiastic but they are not running this site as enthusiasts, if you get my drift.

Cheers Murray P

Megaman
11-05-2004, 07:04 PM
I've noticed it too. Not only have very good regulars gone, but more people are seeing this as a chance to spam and flame others.

Yes we need moderators, but if you are going to pick some, please pick users with experience, and links to back it up.

This is a public forum, and as somebody has said, everyone has to be able to respect others

My $0.02 anyway

MM

(I am putting my hand up as a volunteer as well)

beetle
11-05-2004, 07:24 PM
?:|


i have read this post many times today since spotting it and i can see every ones point but really,
who the moderators may be is any ones guess even if you put a name forward.....such as beetle :p

id run a mile, not that i am a contender any way. id fall off my chair laughing if someone suggested it anyway...........

but the people that do, may have their email addy or details spread on pf1 a bit more than they like, have to be here an awful lot more maybe or just expect a vast change in their inbox level from all the pf1 gripers......

i myself see some very good poeple who could possibly do this job, whether they want to is another thing.

there really isnt a easy right / wrong type of answer...... the main crunch is this would not be happening if every one was polite and non abusive.....
ok really kicks back in about now.

i have no answers , but then i have no questions, just ideas at the moment and lack of time for every thing going on in my life at moment, so i presume is every body else who frequents pf1, ???

Bruce best of luck with the plans,

i think a possible reason for all these flame wars and abuse is these people have to much time on their hands and are bored, if they know the information people are asking about then fine pass on that knowledge but when the fat lady wont sing anymore is about the time you leave in my estimation, as that usually means the show is over.

i am absolutely no help with this type of topic but as always like to put in my beetle spin on things.

:D


beetle

robsonde
11-05-2004, 07:31 PM
one member of the forum has sujested that i put my name foward as a possable choice for one of the new moderators.

anyone else think i can do the job?

Chilling_Silence
11-05-2004, 07:45 PM
One up for Godfather,
One up for Graham L,
One up for Susan B,
One up for Jen C.

My votes are cast.....

robsonde
11-05-2004, 07:52 PM
> One up for Godfather,
> One up for Graham L,
> One up for Susan B,
> One up for Jen C.
>
> My votes are cast.....

i say the same as about with the adition of Chilling_Silence

miknz
11-05-2004, 08:01 PM
As an occasional "poster" and someone who checks in at least twice a day I would have to agree with robsonde. I think the 5 people he selected show the respect and knowledge in most case and therefore should act as mods if this all goes ahead, which I believe it has to.


and thats my $0.02 worth

Mike

Biggles
11-05-2004, 08:08 PM
Valid points all, and I'm acutely aware of the disadvantages of going down this path. As I see it, it shouldn't be necessary, but it seems of late that Rob or I getting to a post some hours after offence is caused isn't good enough. Many users cannot simply ignore the offensive posts, and frankly I'm one of them. Also, good posts/threads end up destroyed because one bad post is replied to and starts a flame war. By the time I get notified the whole thread has gone belly up. If a mod saw these threads earlier and was able to delete offensive sections, less offence might be caused to all. That's the theory.

It isn't a major probelm in terms of the number of threads effected, but it is a problem in terms of an incremental dissatisfaction it is spreading. It doesn't take many rotten apples to spoil the barrel. That's the most vexing thing about the whole situation.

Winston001
11-05-2004, 08:09 PM
Metla - don't go. You are a valuable member. I might not agree with you on this specific issue (I think too much is expected of moderators on a free forum), but you certainly should not leave.

beetle
11-05-2004, 08:12 PM
But what if these people dont want to do it?

i am pretty certain some will be turning this down flat........

doesnt matter how much they love pf1,

beetle

Winston001
11-05-2004, 08:12 PM
I agree with Robsonde's votes and would add Billy T. Billy shows maturity and good judgement IMHO.

nzStan
11-05-2004, 08:20 PM
Meh - I couldn't care less if there are more or less moderators.

The flaming will continue - more people will get warnings and then banned. Egos will get bruise and people will leave, that's the circle of life in forums communities.

This is speaking from my own experience since mid to late 90's as admins and moderators of several forums.

1. It's a thankless task. Sooner or later one of your decision/action will cause a breakup in an online friendship. And you will forever ask whether it was worth it to hold what you believe is the moral line.

2. There will always be someone who's ego is too sensitive to accept rebukes.

3. There will always be someone will choose to debate by throwing low punches.


BB has posted a code of conduct for this forum. For goodness sake, are the rules not clear enough?

-=JM=-
11-05-2004, 08:42 PM
Graham L
Godfather

That is all.

KingWave
11-05-2004, 08:48 PM
Well I see it looks like the norm to vote for oneself as Winston001 has just demonstrated.

I don't think the solution is to start hiring the users to moderate the forum, they are part of the problem as well. If anything you would hire someone who is not known that well and is impartial to current forum members.

For example, voting say BillyT to the stage would be as crazy as voting Merlin, WTF and Thomas into position. Although that would make the forum more entertaining.

Grumpy old men also have very low tolerance level for anything.

supergran
11-05-2004, 08:49 PM
I check into here every day, as most of us regular ones do, even if I don't post a lot, I help where I can, and ask questions about things I need help with. I am of the same opinion as someone else said, if something is said that is flaming someone, what is wrong with just ignoring that post. Usually with no body biting, that person gives up as without being answered, what is the sense of arguing. Just my .2c.

I see for's and against for moderators, but it doesn't worry me as I don't think it concerns me, as long as F1 stays here, I am quite happy.

You wouldnt believe how much I rely on F1, and I can honestly say, regardless of what you do Bruce, please just keep f1 up and running, as I for one would surely be lost without it. Any time I want to know something, or have a problem this is the first place I come, and I am not made to feel stupid about asking a question that maybe I should know.
I know it has ups and downs, but would of thought that is normal procedure with any type of message board. Thanks everyone for helping me when I need it.

Now I will put my head back under my wing, and leave this thread to more experienced people. Cheers

Winston001
11-05-2004, 09:12 PM
> Well I see it looks like the norm to vote for oneself
> as Winston001 has just demonstrated.

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I've been outed :_| :_|

Yes, you're right, I'm..................... GODFATHER ]:)

tweak\'e
11-05-2004, 09:26 PM
well graham L has summed it up nicly tho i wouldn't have been so nice ]:)

this forum as so few flames (real flames not those midly warm dicussions you call flames) that i wouldn't even bother with any more mods. this forum is so placid which is kinda nice. most of the flamers tend to get bored and go else where.

KingWave
11-05-2004, 09:40 PM
Yeah, want to view a real flamewar? Go visit Centerpub (http://www.centerpub.com/forum/) well known for about 100 flames a day.

zminos
11-05-2004, 09:51 PM
thanks for the link kingwave...

although all this voting got me wondering...

to quote Jesus Jones...

Include me out.

I also have zero votes for anyone as mods.

What I'd like to see is the resident writers for pc world NZ, ie Juha,Geoff etc spend a little time in the forum.

It might make me subscribe! instead of buying my copy of the best new zealand IT based mag in NZ.

God I'm sad enough to quote some of the "jokes" that are printed in the mag.

:)

Greg S
12-05-2004, 01:02 AM
What an interesting thread! It's a damn shame that it comes to this, that the Moderators we have have to be put to ransom, so to speak. It's a crying bloody shame that an international audience that PressF1 is exposed to can see us (us, World champs in so many areas, behaving like a bunch of spoilt pratts.

<dig begins here>

Persons like WTF, with It's bluddie ridiculous username is one that needs to have been drowned at birth rather than let It have access to a computer. It's somewhat full of knowledge, but far fuller in itself which It displays by constantly adding to threads It so-calls despises.

The meaningless drivel from 'persons' like that is what degenerates this forum.

<dig ends here>

If it came to a vote, I'd go with someone like Chilly - his young years belie his experience, cool calm manner and insight.

As much as I love Suzie Bee, I think she's too much of a mother figure - no vote.

Jen C - too harsh for this puppy

GF - Too analytical, no person within

Greg s - far too beyond this realm

LOL

:D

Greg S
12-05-2004, 01:17 AM
> Meh - I couldn't care less if there are more or less
> moderators.
>
> The flaming will continue - more people will get
> warnings and then banned. Egos will get bruise and
> people will leave, that's the circle of life in
> forums communities.
>
> This is speaking from my own experience since mid to
> late 90's as admins and moderators of several
> forums.
>
> 1. It's a thankless task. Sooner or later one of
> your decision/action will cause a breakup in an
> online friendship. And you will forever ask whether
> it was worth it to hold what you believe is the moral
> line.
>
> 2. There will always be someone who's ego is too
> sensitive to accept rebukes.
>
> 3. There will always be someone will choose to
> debate by throwing low punches.
>
>
> BB has posted a code of conduct for this forum. For
> goodness sake, are the rules not clear enough?
>

NZStan's post... he kinda says it all

Laura
12-05-2004, 01:54 AM
Hey, you left.

Couldn't really stay away, eh?

Laura
12-05-2004, 03:52 AM
I've been away from Press F1 for 6 weeks (travelling & stuff)
I come back to find fights.
Normal fights here are normal arguments between the same people.They're pretty harmless & we're used to them.

But now it seems there's a bunch of new people ( started in April ) who have a slagging-off agenda which doesn't relate to asking or answering computer problems but merely making smartass or sarcastic comments.

Fortunately, Bruce has now banned the obvious major offenders. I suggest their re-incarnations also get reported, as it's pretty easy to recognise the same garbage from the same people. That's up to the PF1 people to do so. Bruce has other stuff to do.

WE GET THE WEBSITE WE WISH TO HAVE

Yes, it's fine to say just ignore snakey & mean comments about long-term posters who don't deserve them. Or to others who might.
That's easier said than done...when it doesn't affect you...
I'd suggest we all wake up & report the snakey stuff when it first occurs, instead of sitting back & waiting until it gets worse.
Yes, it sounds like school prefects. Well, so be it...
Emotions come into this, of course.

And here I put my pitch for metla

Metla, you are impulsive & explosive & at times OTT.
Sometimes you type before you think long-term. That can be obvious....
You also give an amazing amount of good information.
And you have a wonderful sense of humour which at times makes me laught out loud.
Obviously, you can't leave. What would we do without you to keep us awake & laughing.?

drcspy
12-05-2004, 06:29 AM
As one who has of recent spend considerably LESS time here than I did before largely due to the unpleasantness of a *certain* poster ..........I can say that the advice to 'ignore' unpleasant posts is kinda hard to follow .......one tries but its human nature to want to hit whatever bites you, well you may ignore it initially but hey thoughts of ........well the *Grrrr* kind keep rolling around in your head and sooner or later you will succumb to wanting to respond to the *W$@ker*............anyway.......moderation....... .everyone seems to be focusing on some particular *moderator* sitting in judgement etc........difficult.........is it possible to do it another way........for example have a login page where each user can go to vote on another user, thus after some time/number of votes against that user the *bad* person gets removed ?.......of course who logged in and the number of votes cast by each coudl be recorded and perhaps even limited to one vote per user.........

some more thinking along this line maybe productive.......in this way no single person gets pressured to make the right moderator decisions and everyone gets their say.......

robo
12-05-2004, 07:59 AM
Yet again, we prove that you can't please all the people all the time. As Aesop said "He who tries to please everyone, pleases no-one".

If we have a couple of good apples to help keep an eye on the bad apples it will discourage misbehaviour and minimise the impact of it when it occurs.

Given that it is Bruce and I who have our thingies in the vice to ensure that PressF1 is not a problem, I guess we have to go with what we are comfortable with. It won't suit everybody, but it should help calm things down.

robo.

Murray P
12-05-2004, 08:35 AM
Spot on robo. If user mod's have to be appointed then, appointed is the operative word. "Survivor" type voting has no place in appointments to or kicking from the forum.

On a slight twist on metla's reasoning, the admin's are employed (in part) to run the forum so, IMO the final decisions theirs as to whether and/or who the forum gets moderators. The consultation is nice, of course, but after all is said and done, is only consultation.

Speaking of metla. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Hang around and see it through. Besides, most of us don't want to see you go.

Cheers Murray P

andy
12-05-2004, 08:53 AM
"I agree with Robsonde's votes and would add Billy T. Billy shows maturity and good judgement IMHO. " - Winston001

You must be joking - three out of the last four locked posts were started by Billy T and the fourth was stirred by him as well. Billy may give good advice now and then, but certainly likes to stir the pot with his often sarcastic or belittling comments. He seems to believe he is better than the rest of us and enjoys putting others down then stands back and watches the fire. Someone with his supposed maturity should act in a more responsible fashion. Maybe you guys are looking in the wrong place for the troublemakers.

My 2 cents worth.

TazzieNZ
12-05-2004, 09:14 AM
2 cents worth from someone who used to be a regular here a long long time ago .......

I stopped coming here for a number of reasons, primarily though it was the amount of catfighting, flaming and arrogance shown by a small group of members that appeared soon after the creation of candy.

Some of those members have long gone .... some of those members are still here. Pre candy the environment used to be extremely friendly, now PF1 has joined the multitudes of other internet forums out there (natural evolution I guess).

This is why I tend to not bother answering questions these days, it's not worth the irritation when someone disagrees and rather than post a diplomatic reply they go off on a flame assault.

People come and go, I went but still do lurk in the wings observing ......

I can say though if you are to appoint Mods from what I have seen of the behaviour around here I would be limiting it to possibly 4~5 candidates that have been here since the invention of the wheel :) I am sure the powers that be know who to appoint anyway.

Biggles
12-05-2004, 09:26 AM
I asked for opinions to make sure my own thinking on the subject wasn't way off beam. We all seem in general agreement - not much is needed (Tweak'e's right - real flame wars we rearely have, but still, we don't wnat to get them either), but a little extra ability to nip problems in the bud early might help everyone stay calm.

I've sent an email asking one person if they want to take it on.

Winston001
12-05-2004, 09:54 AM
>
> What me and metla are trying to say is that we made a
> killing off our
> broken glass business (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&t
> read=46301) and are now
> retiring on the profits

Completely OT but I just have to thank PoWa for the link. I missed that thread. Haven't had such a good laugh since.....well.....the fridge.

PoWa, you and I need to talk. I think we can sue Godfather for failure to deliver, goods not fit for their purpose, and perhaps throw in a prosecution for shipping dangerous goods across the Bombay Hills state line. And maybe sue Metla too for conversion of the goods, just to be sure.

But firstly there is the not- inconsequential matter of my fee to be settled. You are good for it? :D

nzStan
12-05-2004, 10:02 AM
Quote from BB:
> I've sent an email asking one person if they want to
> take it on.


OMG!!!! Bruce, do you have the Father, Son and Holy Ghost's email address? I'm not so sure this problem warrant the big one's intervention (yet) :D

whiskeytangofoxtrot
12-05-2004, 10:33 AM
> <dig begins here>
>
> Persons like WTF...
>
> <dig ends here>

Ironic that two moderators sit in this thread, yet ignore posts like the one above - if I or aroc or one of the other newer people here posted that we'd be jumped all over in two seconds flat.

I think this place is too incestuous to have user mods, there is a core of 20 or so people that treat this place like their own personal playground.

They already run around like wannabe mods, only when it is to the defence of their allies, you only need to go through a few threads and it's pretty easy to spot who it is.

It seems that the problem here isn't the odd spiteful post, as already mentioned, if people have a problem with it, don't read it, or ignore it. The bigger problem is when someone does say something that is either controversial or insulting, an entire team of psuedo demigods come in and start trying to throw their CyberWeight around.

The existing mods also seem happy to ignore posts, regardless of content if it's done by particular people. The amount of ****-slinging that a certain person with the namesake of a much missed maori comedian makes on the sly, masked under the guise of semi-intellectual obscure words that goes completely untouched is ridiculous. That guy treats pretty much everyone on the forum like something he scraped off his shoe and gets away with it.

Realistically there probably isn't a requirement for more moderation, the clique needs to be broken up and loosened up a bit. If they can't handle the odd snide comment, usually deserved then it's them with the problem.

In a recent thread I questioned someones competence after posting completely incorrect advice (to plug a water damaged appliance into the mains to help dry it out) - it was done politely, which was contrary to everything I wanted to do. I was the one that was jumped on, again by the team of demi-gods who had questioned one of their own. Never mind the fact that his advice would have most likely destroyed an expensive piece of electronic gear, never mind the potential for injury to the operator using it.

That is the sort of thing that happens around here, pretty regularly really, yet people think it is the few of us that dare not to conform that are the problem.

Chilling_Silence
12-05-2004, 11:00 AM
> Quote from BB:
> > I've sent an email asking one person
> if they want to
> > take it on.
>
>
> OMG!!!! Bruce, do you have the Father, Son and Holy
> Ghost's email address? I'm not so sure this problem
> warrant the big one's intervention (yet) :D

That made my day :^O

Very good.... B-)

Biggles
12-05-2004, 11:02 AM
>That is the sort of thing that happens around here, pretty regularly really, yet people think it is the few of us that dare not to conform that are the problem.

I'm trying to be productive here, and locking editing this thread won't achieve that, so I've let comments stand.

You are not wrong that at times some people get jumped on more because of who they are than what they have actually said in a particular thread.

There are two main types of offence that cause problems here. The rarest is when someone just starts up and says something offensive, be it a slur on another user or a general comment. The more common problem is the continual bitching between a small group of users. It has got to the point where someone like you WTF, cannot post without others -- who do seem to consider themselves "in the right" -- having a go at you and before long a perfectly innocent thread is gone bad. Metla has been guilty of this, as have others. But then, you've said plenty of stuff youself -- under the guise of "not conforming" I assume -- that has created the bad feeling in the first place. There aren't too many totally innocent parties involved here.

In point of fact I can count on one hand the individual users who regularly take the time to alert me to problems in threads, despite this being my advice in the Rule thread. In most cases those taking offence do not alert me, or Rob, and then complain because we do not do something about it. If you've got a problem with a post email me.

As it stands the result is that the larger majority of silent users -- including many old hands who've stopped posting to avoid this kind of thing -- have to sit back and be unwilling spectators to cat fights. Unwilling because these catfight take place in threads that start out being helpful or informative.

I want this kind of thing to stop. No, it isn't a “flamewar” by the standards of other forums, but it poisoning this forum. Those involved in it don't some to realise that, or care.

So, if we have one user mod who is able to kill such comment quicker than I or Rob can and return good threads to a non-spoilt status quicker, then that is a solid improvement from my point of view.

I'm not going to be drawn into a fight here and now about who has done what or said what in the past. I've made multiple tongue-in-check comments over the past few months (usually when locking threads) to the effect that some of you need to cool off and walk away from your computers for a bit. I'm not going to bother so much in the future and might simply start locking user names out.

The rules are there. They are not hard to adhere to. If you disagree with the advice some has given it is entirely possible to say so, politely, and explain why without dumping on the other guy has as become common practice for some users here. Please remember that for every one of you posting, there are a great many more who are viewing and they should not have to be exposed to your personal issues with other users. Perhaps one day we’ll have private messaging and you can fight in private, but for now, cut it out.

stu120404
12-05-2004, 11:16 AM
Ok, I've been busy with web design work & the lack of bandwidth (long story... for another wet day in Auckland :D ;)) has stop me from surfing Press F1 as much as I use to for a the last week or so, but I have been reading one or two threads, then today I see this sticky, now I have not read this thread entree I have just skim read over it & now before I continue I have to say that Bruce Buckman & robo do a Good job Moderating this forum.

Yes I have to agree & say Press F1 does get the ode person who tries to pump us with hot air e.g. Aroc & the alike but that is not often & if every one reported bad posts to Bruce & robo like I do instead of replying to them & turning them in to a flam thread every one would get one a lot better & if some people take some time away from the computer &/or Press F1 as well e.g. Billy T should of realised as soon as Aroc started posting in his WFTWE that he should of stopped posting/making them for a few weeks & should off e-mail Bruce & robo & told them that Aroc was causing trouble ( I am only guessing here that he(Billy T) did not, but I could be wrong here)

If Bruce & robo do decide to make a couple of users Moderators then these people I would vote for

Godfather,
Graham L,
Susan B,
Jen C.
&
Chilling_Silence

& A few others

Also I am putting my hand up as a volunteer as well.
(stu120404/stu140103)

whiskeytangofoxtrot
12-05-2004, 11:18 AM
> But then, you've said plenty of stuff
> youself -- under the guise of "not conforming" I
> assume

I'm the first to admit that I will make inflammatory comments, perhaps not as regularly now as I used to, but thats life, people do that. The way a lot of people handle themselves around here is pretty aggravating a lot of the time.

I noticed that the comment regarding letting some posters get away with being dergatory to others was blithely passed by. If you yourself are going to create double standards then why should anyone else follow the rules. It's alright for you to delete an entire thread that was rough on Billy T, yet you won't post edit if it's rough on me, hell there is a user still posting here that started an entire hate thread because I contradicted him a few times and nothing was done about it.

With regard to 'conforming' is the fact that I (and others) don't want to join in the obscenely closed clique here. This place is pretty hard to penetrate as a new person joining because the majority of the regular core users are so locked off from reality and change. It's all personal in-jokes and damned near scripted out threads.

If a new person doesn't laugh when every one else does, or kiss ass when every one else does they are immediately ostracized. It's hardly conducive to encouraging new people to post.

Biggles
12-05-2004, 11:27 AM
>I noticed that the comment regarding letting some posters get away with being dergatory to others was blithely passed by. If you yourself are going to create double standards then why should anyone else follow the rules. It's alright for you to delete an entire thread that was rough on Billy T, yet you won't post edit if it's rough on me, hell there is a user still posting here that started an entire hate thread because I contradicted him a few times and nothing was done about it.


I'm sorry, but I did not ignore it. I said:

>I'm trying to be productive here, and locking editing this thread won't achieve that, so I've let comments stand.

>You are not wrong that at times some people get jumped on more because of who they are than what they have actually said in a particular thread.

I also pointed out that unless I'm told about problems, I can't fix them. How many times have you emailed me complaining about comments in a post?

I do not have bloody ESP.

TonyF
12-05-2004, 11:31 AM
> The rules are there. They are not hard to adhere to.

Now that a few people have let off steam, could intending posters follow the above advice and not be tempted to crack back.

Cheers T

nzStan
12-05-2004, 11:33 AM
> Now that a few people have let off steam, could
> intending posters follow the above advice and not be
> tempted to crack back.
>
> Cheers T

Amen!

Chilling_Silence
12-05-2004, 11:38 AM
> I do not have bloody ESP.

Oh? Im sure it was part of the moderator's contract you signed saying that you did have ESP... Looks like you'll have to get the sack ;-)

It does seem rather sad that an open discussion cannot be had about controlling the flames that fly without a few sparks being seen :-(

Im with Tony and nzStan


Chill.

Biggles
12-05-2004, 11:40 AM
I'm going to play BF Vietnam shortly. Nothing like spawn camping to help let off steam .....

nzStan
12-05-2004, 12:03 PM
> I'm going to play BF Vietnam shortly. Nothing like
> spawn camping to help let off steam .....


Wait a second.... you get to play BF:V during work hours?????


Some people have all the dream jobs.... Meanwhile I'm looking at this pile of work on my desk and thinking I wish I can play Americas Army right now.

orca.
12-05-2004, 12:12 PM
> I think this place is too incestuous to have user mods, there is a core of 20 or so people that treat this place like their own personal playground.

> They already run around like wannabe mods, only when it is to the defence of their allies, you only need to go through a few threads and it's pretty easy to spot who it is.

Well said WTF, couldn't have said it better myself.

> The existing mods also seem happy to ignore posts, regardless of content if it's done by particular people. The amount of ****-slinging that a certain person with the namesake of a much missed maori comedian makes on the sly, masked under the guise of semi-intellectual obscure words that goes completely untouched is ridiculous. That guy treats pretty much everyone on the forum like something he scraped off his shoe and gets away with it.

Absolutely, yet they seem to be blinded by the truth.

> Realistically there probably isn't a requirement for more moderation, the clique needs to be broken up and loosened up a bit. If they can't handle the odd snide comment, usually deserved then it's them with the problem.

Yes it's like they can't defend themselves even when they deserve a particular comment, "____ is being mean to me, please lock the thread, waah waah"...

They seem all too happy to give people crap, but can take none in return.

Who made the comment about making BillyT a moderator? That has got to be the most insane thing I've heard all week. That person starts all the bickering with his high and mighty greater than thou attitude.

If you're thinking about making BillyT a mod, make WTF, StevieRay and myself mods too. We will endeaver to delete WTFWE threads as soon as they begin. That would solve 80% of the "flame wars" around here unless they could "invent" WTFWLE, which stands for WTFW Locked Edition.

My login wouldn't even exist if it weren't for him.

Bruce, stop deleting my accounts. My comments merely give people a reality check they need. Granted they aren't as nice as they could be, but how else do you keep those posters in order. Hardly anyone else even tries and are just happy to overlook abuse from these "PF1 elite".

orca.
12-05-2004, 12:14 PM
*endeavour

Greg S
12-05-2004, 12:16 PM
> I'm going to play BF Vietnam shortly. Nothing like
> spawn camping to help let off steam .....


LOL B - you're cool... A Mod with a soul :D

Gamers Unite!

Greg S
12-05-2004, 12:24 PM
>if I or aroc or
> one of the other newer people here posted that we'd
> be jumped all over in two seconds flat.

Balls mate. You get away with much more than you deserve. ******'s like you just cannot find real life so you take your frustrations out on the real people on the other side of your monitor.

I kindly invite you, next time you want to punch someone/something, to visit me... my home address is easily found on the Internet

ps: ex Aroc - go suck a dead blowfly - it'll cheer you up

nzStan
12-05-2004, 12:28 PM
*Don flame retardent suit and duck into foxhole*

Jester
12-05-2004, 12:56 PM
> *Don flame retardent suit and duck into foxhole*

They have flame retardant suits in AA?? Hmmm, may have to look at that game again. Wish they had grenade retardant suits in BF

Scouse
12-05-2004, 01:32 PM
Interesting thread. Anonymity probably accounts for the ready displays of rudeness, offensive language and brattish behaviour. I doubt that many of the ruder characters on this and other similar sites had the balls to speak to fellow students, workmates, club mates, neighbours, etc., in such a way face to face. We don't need more or different moderators. The present team have to ability to give offenders the flick when they sink low enough. Scouse.

Winston001
12-05-2004, 01:35 PM
Oh dear. So it goes. You know, while we debate this subject, there are other threads going on PF1 perfectly normally, people helping people. Most threads don't have any problems.

WTF, Aroc, etc don't bother me personally. In fact I notice I have just been determined "insane". Could be.

If there is a problem at all, it is the angry and dismissive tone used, when there is disagreement. It does make the forum less welcoming. Mockery can be just as effective a way of making a point.

Jams
12-05-2004, 05:14 PM
lol. this would have to be the first of lame threads to come to this forum, (very opnionated). are the mods going to get little badges as well, nice shiny ones? if you incorperate more mods, your going to make alot of users feel very inferior.

keep up the good work guys!

Biggles
12-05-2004, 05:25 PM
>Bruce, stop deleting my accounts. My comments merely give people a reality check they need. Granted they aren't as nice as they could be, but how else do you keep those posters in order. Hardly anyone else even tries and are just happy to overlook abuse from these "PF1 elite".


Abide by the rules and I won't need to delete your accounts. The actions you outline above are not acceptable. Do not come back until you will stick by the rules. It is not a hard request to adhere to.

agent
12-05-2004, 05:25 PM
> My comments merely give people a reality check they need

But that's the problem, they are your comments based on your opinions.

I'm no counsellor, but I think it would be reasonably safe to say that the majority of PressF1 users do not see, in the way you see, how Billy T behaves as if everyone else is scum on the sole of his shoe.

Some evidence to back up that claim would be nice, otherwise it is reduced to a mere opinion - not a fact - among the voices of the majority.

We need to understand where you are coming from before we can solve any conflict, so I suggest that you conjure up a very convincing argument before complaining about someone else.

Everyone has different ideas of what is suitable, and no two people will have the exact opinion on what is out of line - but we can try to please the majority, as opposed to everyone, and sort out any issues by talking.

Biggles
12-05-2004, 05:28 PM
End of story. I've appointed a mod. Orca/Aroc whatever - the challenge is there. I'm not interested in your self-appointed mission to dump on other users. Play by the rules and come back. Or just stay away.