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Susan B
22-04-2004, 09:43 PM
Not sure if I will get many replies to this rather delicate subject but I will ask anyway. :D

Whilst giving a friend's computer a good clean today and having a bit of a battle killing the index.dat files I couldn't help noticing quite a few urls to porn sites in the temporary internet/history files (tut tut :D).

What I am interested to know is whether one would have to actually visit those sites in order to get the urls into the temp internet/history?

Is it possible for someone to accidentally go to one or two of these sites and then either be bombarded with those nightmare continual popup pages or some such and then have the urls load into the temp internet files/history?

Or can one of those pesky pop-up boxes that you accidentally click OK on hurl a dozen or so of those urls into your temp internet files?

It wasn't until after the evidence was deleted that I thought of visiting some of the sites to experiment. Probably just as well I didn't anyway, since the house-full of young people would have been rather impressed. :p :D

What's the bet that this will be one of my most visited threads yet? :p :D

Jester
22-04-2004, 09:46 PM
ohhhhhhhhhh here we go .. sits and waits too

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
22-04-2004, 10:13 PM
> What's the bet that this will be one of my most
> visited threads yet? :p :D

Must admit, I've just read your thread Susan. :8} Could everybody who visits leave a message :p.... We'll find out how many. Oh... and state your age.... :p

<15, 15-20, 20-25, 25-30, 30-40 or 40+ (sorry people, I had to put you all into one big group :p)

For statistical purposes only :D

I'll start 15-20...

agent
22-04-2004, 10:21 PM
Back in the days, when I was less concerned with the morality of various descriptions of items ending with "z", I had the nasty experience of those cursed sites which put you in pop-up hell.

The answer, I should think, is that anything loaded will be in your cache, and any page loaded will be in your history (but I believe various browsers have different methods for determining what goes into your history).

Scouse
22-04-2004, 10:35 PM
What's the bet that this will be one of my most visited threads yet?

Never. I would find that difficult to believe........ :O (40+)

Winston001
22-04-2004, 10:46 PM
I accidently clicked this post - honest Mum. I didn't even look. Really.

Terry Porritt
22-04-2004, 10:51 PM
I think you probably do have to actually visit a web site for its details to go into the history and index.dat.

What always amazes me are those people like school teachers, judges etc who havent the faintest idea of the trail of evidence they fill their 'works' computers with.
These people deserve to get sacked just for being stupid.

On the other hand I wouldnt mind betting that those who do the sacking dont have a clean record either :)

beetle
22-04-2004, 10:53 PM
ha Mum knows im already here as she posted it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

age, well lets just say old enough to know better.:D

beetle

Growly
22-04-2004, 11:03 PM
Now now, let's not discriminate.

I dont know about temp files, but I know wierd cookies with WIERD names can end up in places....

PoWa
22-04-2004, 11:04 PM
Well each time you surf somewhere on IE, it leaves a trail in about 10 different places on the hard drive. You just cant get rid of it. You're better off not using IE in the first place.

These people just haven't learned to joys of a one click cleanup solution (Featured in opera and firebird). A word comes to mind... noob.

fergie
22-04-2004, 11:05 PM
I'm sure that "P" was a 'C' - and i thought "who would browse sites on corn....."

:p

15-20

Growly
22-04-2004, 11:07 PM
Whats the bet a moderator will close it down, really soon?

antmannz
22-04-2004, 11:07 PM
Hmm .... you could visit an innocent seeming page (eg. microsoft.com) that contains a dodgy frame (eg. dodgygirlsarehere.com) which would save both urls to the internet cache.

Noel Nosivad
22-04-2004, 11:15 PM
Hey Susan,

Now you don't have to visit porn sites, in fact, depending on what sites you visit that are considered bad taste you'd find a lot of advertising that helps maintain the sites. The advertising is enough to put cookies, images and what not in your temporary internet folder.

However the history is different, that is actual visited pages and I'm positive you can not get those without clicking on the link or typing the links. I sure no popup can present that in the history but then again, I haven't dealt with popups in a long time.

I've heard a million stories from people saying how they got there, and I've probably seen someone's temporary internet folder that must have had one of the largest databases for offline porn viewing :P , I prefer the honest people though, who really don't care and say they do visit those sites, because I'm not there to judge them on what they do, only there to fix their problems.


Noel Nosivad

Noel Nosivad
22-04-2004, 11:19 PM
Powa,

Does the cleanup solution remove the history shown in the registry? The registry also stores URL that have been visited, keeping track of recent sites etc.

I haven't come across a program that actually cleans the registry of URLs visited.


Noel Nosivad

BamBam
22-04-2004, 11:23 PM
This thread will no doubt get the interest of all resident F1'ers.

So okay about this "friend's" PC... note from my own experience that a lot of images contained in html spam also ends up in the temp internet files, which gives the indication that the site was visited when not the case (swear.... honest!).

Eight of those slipped through the usually impeccable Paradise.net filtering in one day so that could accumulate quite quickly.

However from cleaning up "friend's" PC's in the past I'm pretty sure a lot of the sites were not accidental, which raises a bit of an ethical issue as on what you should say (e.g. should you tell the parents that little Johnny has an unhealthy interest in Kylie Minouge? (though can't blame him!)) :)

Pheonix
22-04-2004, 11:23 PM
It doesn't have to be a porn site either, some warez sites give you porn popups like there's no tomorrow.

Just been told about it though :b

Just trialling a neat little cleaner for those visits to peoples computers where it is choking with IE "leftovers". Maybe worth a look for you Susan.
It's called Ccleaner, short for CrapCleaner :D (for real) here (http://www.spazmatic.net/partners/ccleaner/)

StevieRay
22-04-2004, 11:30 PM
They say that more women vist porn sites than men.

johnboy
22-04-2004, 11:38 PM
To see if your cleaner works try this
winspy (http://www.acesoft.net/winspy/)

TonyF
22-04-2004, 11:40 PM
> ha Mum knows im already here as she posted
> it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goodness Beetle. Is it your machine she is cleaning ???

beetle
22-04-2004, 11:44 PM
What!!!!!!!!!!!

$#@% i hope not, ill be in deep crap if it is....:D

im all sweet and innocent...i twouldnt do that of course..... and do you think id still be walking if that was the case? that broom woulda twitched my hide good and proper for improper use of a comp..... :D

:p



beetle

Susan B
22-04-2004, 11:45 PM
Geez you guys, you had to go and hijack my thread, didn't you? :p :D


> I think you probably do have to actually visit a web site for its details to go into the history and index.dat.

That is what I suspect (but would rather not believe...).


> Hmm .... you could visit an innocent seeming page (eg. microsoft.com) that contains a dodgy frame (eg. dodgygirlsarehere.com) which would save both urls to the internet cache.

Is that a guess or have you actually experienced that?


> Now you don't have to visit porn sites, in fact, depending on what sites you visit that are considered bad taste you'd find a lot of advertising that helps maintain the sites. The advertising is enough to put cookies, images and what not in your temporary internet folder.

That makes more sense to me. But what do the urls look like in the Temp Internet folder? They would be suffixed with *.gif and *.jpg wouldn't they? What about the ones ending in *.htm and *.html? I understand those to be actual visited pages.

> I prefer the honest people though, who really don't care and say they do visit those sites, because I'm not there to judge them on what they do, only there to fix their problems.

Same here. I keep my mouth shut and couldn't care less what other people do on their computer - as long as it doesn't adversely affect me, directly or indirectly.


> Does the cleanup solution remove the history shown in the registry? The registry also stores URL that have been visited, keeping track of recent sites etc.

> I haven't come across a program that actually cleans the registry of URLs visited.

This particular computer has Win ME and I had a hellava battle getting rid of those files until I used EasyCleaner. That fixed 'em. ;-)

TonyF
23-04-2004, 12:00 AM
that broom woulda twitched my hide
> good and proper
> beetle
Watch out for the sites which feature this frolic.....

Pheonix
23-04-2004, 12:07 AM
Actually ccleaner cleaned up well. But what came out of this, is through stevierays suggested program, Winspy, I was able to nosey through the index.dat and can tell you that you do not have to visit a site for it to be listed. I have various sites listed, but not visited such as doubleclick and count.paycounter, which indicates that links to other sites, on the page you visit, can be listed.

Greg S
23-04-2004, 10:36 AM
> Is it possible for someone to accidentally go to one
> or two of these sites and then either be bombarded
> with those nightmare continual popup pages or some
> such and then have the urls load into the temp
> internet files/history?

Definitly yes. I once saved an account when I worked on an ISP helpdesk... the wife phoned up to complain about all the porn WE were pouring into her computer! hehe I made it clear to her that the problem existed between chair and keyboard - she immediately became extremely suspicious of her hubby. So I saved the day by elaborating on how these things can sometimes be strayed upon inadvertantly.

(the hubbie still hasn't sent me a case of beer!)

Greg S
23-04-2004, 10:45 AM
Don't forget though, that someone with a budding medical interest (ummm gynocology for instance?) could actually go to the wrong sites while doing a google ;-)

agent
23-04-2004, 11:24 AM
> someone with a budding medical interest... could actually go to the wrong sites while doing a google

Ah, but that's why we have Medical Encyclopaedias at home :p

Biggles
23-04-2004, 11:38 AM
>Whats the bet a moderator will close it down, really soon?


Nope. It's a fine technical discussion. nothing here to shut down. Yet.

Susan B
23-04-2004, 12:04 PM
Thanks very much for all the information provided, guys, I really appreciate your "bravery" in helping me out with this one. :D

Got a much clearer picture of the issue now which has saved a certain person from being dragged off to his missus by the ear. :p :D

Just kidding..... :p


> It doesn't have to be a porn site either, some warez sites give you porn popups like there's no tomorrow.

Yes Pheonix, one of my tribe found that out on a cheat site, a fact that I discovered a bit after the event when going through the index.dat with Spider. Poor thing was quaking in his boots when I bailed him up about it and the very fact that he was "caught out" has prevented any further deliberate browsing of such sites. ;-)

Thanks for the link to CCleaner, I have downloaded it and will give it a spin sometime soon.

> I was able to nosey through the index.dat and can tell you that you do not have to visit a site for it to be listed. I have various sites listed, but not visited such as doubleclick and count.paycounter, which indicates that links to other sites, on the page you visit, can be listed.

Excellent information. :-)
The Winspy program does looks good, a bit like Spider in that you can view the index.dat files, but it isn't free. Might give it a trial run though, in case it could be worth the investment.


Am tempted to comment on other posts here but don't want to push my luck by ruffling Bruce's feathers (family forum, see....) so will just have to bite my lip. ;-)

Incidentally, I remember a couple of years ago an ISP bigwig interviewed in PC World said that 90% of internet traffic is pornography. :O

chiefnz
23-04-2004, 12:17 PM
Well Susan I must say it's a pretty interesting question you have posed. I was immensely curious so I enlisted the help of my flatmate (who is still serving punishment for his taste in adult entertainment).

We went to a few porn sites, most of them were those thumbnail galleries and quite a few of them lead to the actual gallery but then there were those that simply opened another thumbnail site, along with the occassional Evidence Eliminator ad page.

We did this for about an hour (we noted down the urls of the pop-up pages or the ones that were simply more thumbnail galleries as well as the title of the page)

We then went into the Temp Internet Files folder to have a look and see if we could match any of the files with the ones we had in the list we had made.... and all of them were there, right down to the Evidence Eliminator ad.

So this brings me to my next point....

Quote - Susan B "What I am interested to know is whether one would have to actually visit those sites in order to get the urls into the temp internet/history?"

Now if you're asking if the pop-up pages appear in the Temp Internet Files folder then the answer is

YES

On the other hand if you're talking about the links embedded within the actual page with the porn content that you're on... then I'd have to say the answer is

NO

This is of course bearing in mind that urls (their associated webpages & files)will only be stored in the Temp Internet Files Folder if that page is in fact accessed by Internet Explorer.

I hope that was what you meant and I hope it makes sense...

Ok I'm off to CHURCH to CONFESS my sins (I'm sure God will forgive me) after all it was the for the benefit of the rest of mankind (well at least all F1'ers)

cheers
chiefnz

Greg S
23-04-2004, 12:19 PM
> Incidentally, I remember a couple of years ago an ISP
> bigwig interviewed in PC World said that 90% of
> internet traffic is pornography. :O

Your memory or source may not be too accurate... I recall reading Neilsons who gave the percentage to be around 45. But that in itself is a huge chunk of what is viewed online. Perhaps the figure you saw was based on different criteria.. eg porno stuff is rather image intensive, so more pictures and videos etc add up to a heck of a lot of bandwidth

Growly
23-04-2004, 12:30 PM
> >Whats the bet a moderator will close it down, really
> soon?
>
>
> Nope. It's a fine technical discussion. nothing here
> to shut down. Yet.

Agreed.

Susan B
23-04-2004, 12:40 PM
Chiefnz, you're a big sweetie (I think... :p :D), thanks a lot for that. :-)
That is exactly what I wanted to know and you saved me the horror of having to do the research for myself. :D

(Goodness, what if I had got caught?! :O)

I have had the nasty experience of those vicious popups way back in my early internet days (never again!!) so that is what I suspect has happened in this case. Not that I will ever truly know as my mouth will be kept firmly shut for all eternity....


> Your memory or source may not be too accurate...

I'm the first to admit my memory is as dodgy as they come but I have the book open here right in front of me. NZ PC World July 2002, page 70 at the end of the article written by David Cartwright. The person quoted was ICONZ Group Managing Director Michael Spencer.

It certainly does sound a huge amount - maybe he got his facts a little skewed?

beetle
23-04-2004, 12:53 PM
:O

I was meaning Mum not any body else, with her broom, got to toe the line ya know.......

i didnt do anything Mum honest, wasnt looking.

:D

im being good for once....

beetle

Graham L
23-04-2004, 02:51 PM
"Statistics" are often invented to suit the person quoting them. Spam seems to be a significant bandwidth hog.

Some years ago, an American student produced some highly dodgy "numbers" about the amount of "pornography" on the Internet and got himself into Time magazine (and the good books of those who believe in censorship). But the basis and methodology were thoroughly discredited.

Was it Sturgeon who said "90% of science fiction is crap"? That observation has been extended to "90% of everything is crap". So it's probably safe to say that 90% of all statistics are crap.

outrider
23-04-2004, 05:22 PM
> Was it Sturgeon who said "90% of science fiction is
> crap"? That observation has been extended to "90% of
> everything is crap". So it's probably safe to
> say that 90% of all statistics are crap.

If you are talking about stats found on line its probably safe to say that 99.99% of all statistics are crap.

ugh1
23-04-2004, 05:53 PM
It has been my past experience that strange porn links can come from a number of places:

Visiting warez sites.
Visiting porn sites.
HTML Email.

Outbreak can be the biggist source of these strange sites, either loading an image in the preview plane or with a symbolic link.

Hence it pays to give the benifit of the doubt to the kids, partner etc.. as if you are using Outbreak then these are the problems.

The same problem can occur with Eudora, unless you disable the Mickysoft viewer for HTML, but it keeps a log of clicked HTML links.

At the end of the day an ounce of common sense is better than a pound of un-happyness.

~~~~~ s y ~~~~~
23-04-2004, 06:56 PM
Has anyone ever deleted that index.dat file completely? If so what happened? Are your records still there?

tweak\'e
23-04-2004, 06:59 PM
i have deleted the index.dat file many times. windows simply makes a new one and it dosn't have all the rubbish in it.

its a good idea to delete it every so often as it will get large enough to slow down your pc/browseing.

Susan B
23-04-2004, 07:07 PM
> Has anyone ever deleted that index.dat file completely? If so what happened? Are your records still there?

See the FAQ section. ;-)

Murray P
23-04-2004, 07:14 PM
> its a good idea to delete it every so often as it
> will get large enough to slow down your pc/browseing.

Agreed. That's if you can find it (and/or them) but, windows won't let you delete it anyway. That's why Spyder is such a handy little beastie to have around.

Can't remember what but, there was a little alteration you could add via a text editer to index.dat that meant that the index.dat would not fill up with info. It worked for win98, (don't know about any other versions) to help ease paranoia re MS snooping.

AFAIK both index.dat(s) and the registry can hold info on sites visited, emails and links or site pages not visited depending on their method of presentation/activation.

Cheers Murray P

jupi8
23-04-2004, 08:37 PM
Just saw the word porn and clicked :-) ,
curiosity I quess ...... :D
15-20

dipstick01
24-04-2004, 11:09 PM
Yes you can get the porn temp files etc from visiting sites that have porn advertising......take priceless420.com for example, however in my experience with customers computers the large majority of porn cookies and temp files are from people visiting the sites.

Everyone at some stage of using a computer has visited a porn site out of curiosity with a small minority accidently getting into one. Hell I imagine a large number of people have at some stage rented a "blue" movie to see what they are like lol.

As for the ethics of telling people what is happening on their computer I will generally tell the parents if it is a child (under 16) that has been visiting the sites.

I will also explain to the user about the porn pitfalls with dialers and pop ups etc and the hazards of the old "give us your credit card number to prove your age" scams. I will also give them a couple of "sites" that are at least semi ethical in regards to pop ups and scams as I believe that if they are going to get "curious" then at least they should do it in a relatively safe way.

Porn is a tricky subject and luckily my daughter is still at the eeeeeewwwwwwww yuck stage when she stumbles across something, but in the last year of computer use she has seen more porn at the age of 13 than I had done by the age of 18.......and that includes finding Dad's stash of playboys.
I have had to have the TALK with her though and explain that what she see's online is not real life but is peoples Ideal's presented in pictures/movies. Hell I know if I asked the better half to try out a some of what they put on those sites I would be very cold and lonely sleeping out in the garage.