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View Full Version : Rounded cables (Enquiry out of interest)



StevieRay
18-04-2004, 12:31 PM
I have seen mention on this forum of rounded cables.

What is the lowdown on them, and if/why are the superior and why would I need them.

SR

metla
18-04-2004, 12:38 PM
They not,and you don't.

metla
18-04-2004, 12:39 PM
**edit**

They're not,and you don't.

Susan B
18-04-2004, 12:42 PM
Rounded cables take up much less room in a computer case than flat ribbon cables and therefore do not block airflow as much. That is especially helpful in a crowded or small case to help keep the case temperature down.

They also look a lot nicer on a modded case with a window. :-)

metla
18-04-2004, 12:45 PM
There is no need for normal ide cables to block airflow,putting 5 seconds effort into the routing of them is all that is needed.

Susan B
18-04-2004, 01:00 PM
OK, maybe block was the incorrect term to use. Maybe I should have said restrict or hinder.

Metla, have you got a pic of a crowded case with nice tidy ribbon cables that do not "block" the airflow? Just for my education. :-)

I still reckon it is a crime to use ribbons in a case with a window though. :p

StevieRay
18-04-2004, 01:03 PM
> I still reckon it is a crime to use ribbons in a case
> with a window though. :p

Why would you want a window in your case?

metla
18-04-2004, 01:44 PM
I think your education is just fine Susan :D

In my view ide cables aren't enough to cause excessive heatbuild up,unless placed in the stupist places possible,and it is a simple matter to tidy up the wiring in a case.

However,you can't fix bad case design by replacing the ribbon cables with rounded cables.If you have a crowded small case which is overheating...biff the case.

The worst cases i have seen have the psu mounted verticly,with the cpu fan blowing diectly onto the side of the psu,sometimes with only 2mm between them.This is only done in small cases.

metla
18-04-2004, 01:45 PM
> Why would you want a window in your case?


Because the internals of computers are so damn sexy.

Graham L
18-04-2004, 04:37 PM
You shouldn't have a window in the case. If the little man doing the calculations can see outside he won't pay attention to his work.

If I've got a choice between paying a small amount for a round cable and a few minutes installing it, and paying a large amount for a new box and a lot of time rebuilding a computer in it, guess which I'd choose.

An IDE cable has a maximum length of 18". That might seem a lot, but it's not long enough to route it so it doesn't obstruct the airflow in a lot of cases. A round cable will obstruct the airflow less. That's why they are made. Flat ribbon cables were used because they are very cheap to make.

Graham L
18-04-2004, 04:38 PM
You shouldn't have a window in the case. If the little man doing the calculations can see outside he won't pay attention to his work.

If I've got a choice between paying a small amount for a round cable and a few minutes installing it, and paying a large amount for a new box and a lot of time rebuilding a computer in it, guess which I'd choose.

An IDE cable has a maximum length of 18". That might seem a lot, but it's not long enough to route it so it doesn't obstruct the airflow in a lot of cases. A round cable will obstruct the airflow less. That's why they are made. Flat ribbon cables were used because they are very cheap to make.

StevieRay
18-04-2004, 04:54 PM
Thanks for the info guys

whetu
18-04-2004, 05:15 PM
rounded cables are only a workaround for a problem. in the long term the industry has figured out solutions that include a new pc format (BTX) and SATA cables

as far as routing normal ribbons vs roundeds, yes, with a bit of effort you can get the same result but roundeds tend to be easier. Either way with enough effort they both look as good as the other

Susan B
18-04-2004, 05:59 PM
> I think your education is just fine Susan

Bugger... :p


> Why would you want a window in your case?

>> Because the internals of computers are so damn sexy.

Exactly. :x


> You shouldn't have a window in the case. If the little man doing the calculations can see outside he won't pay attention to his work.

He will for me. ]:) :D

StevieRay
18-04-2004, 07:29 PM
>
> > Why would you want a window in your case?
>
> >> Because the internals of computers are so damn
> sexy.
>
> Exactly. :x
>

Eh? I don't think so. Now, those stiletto's and little black dress would be sexy Susan, not computer hardware

KingWave
18-04-2004, 07:38 PM
> Eh? I don't think so. Now, those stiletto's and little black dress would be sexy Susan, not computer hardware

ROFL :^O

I plan to use them because its so much easier to install them into a computer.

They take up less space and you can maneouvre them around the place much easier than the old type.

Its a plain nightmare trying to work cables into a computer that has 4 IDE devices + a floppy drive cable!

hamstar
18-04-2004, 08:01 PM
Hey so if you make your flat IDE's into rounded IDE's by use of cable ties, can you use those little magnets that go around wires to stop the signal interference of non-sheilded (i.e. flat) IDE cables?

hamstar
18-04-2004, 08:04 PM
>> Eh? I don't think so. Now, those stiletto's and little black dress would be sexy Susan, not computer hardware

>ROFL

>I plan to use them because its so much easier to install them into a computer.

>They take up less space and you can maneouvre them around the
place much easier than the old type.

Why would you want to put a little black dress and stilleto heels into a computer? Then Susan would have nothing to wear...

:D;)

godfather
18-04-2004, 08:12 PM
> Hey so if you make your flat IDE's into rounded IDE's
> by use of cable ties, can you use those little
> magnets that go around wires to stop the signal
> interference of non-sheilded (i.e. flat) IDE cables?

Of course, if you do not want your PC to work just go ahead.

Think about where they are used.
They basically prevent high frequency signals from travelling in the cables, and that is why they are used on mains cables and also on screened cables to block the HF signals being conducted (in or out) of the PC via the screen.

The IDE cables carry a lot of high frequency signals (thats all they carry) and there is no screen apart from 40 of the interspersed cores. Using a ferrite toroid would therefore tend to block the IDE bus signals themselves, and I don't think this would be a needed effect.

whetu
18-04-2004, 10:10 PM
>> Then Susan would have nothing to wear...

you say it like it's a bad thing ;)

metla
18-04-2004, 10:45 PM
weird,the window in my pc just fogged up.....

Susan B
18-04-2004, 10:53 PM
> weird,the window in my pc just fogged up.....

You definitely need rounded cables Metla, you're overheating! ;-)

hamstar
19-04-2004, 12:47 AM
So what can we do to stop signal interference in self-rounded IDE cables?

KingWave
19-04-2004, 01:37 AM
Who knows. Thats the advantage of buying rounded ones, they are shielded.

rmcb
19-04-2004, 01:59 PM
Here is how to make diy ones.....

http://www.techangel.co.uk/articles/rounding/

metla
19-04-2004, 02:33 PM
I wonder if the people on that "craft" site ever tested their creation,they have complety ignored the main pitfall of what they just did.

I would sugest before anyone had a go that they have a spare set of cables handy,and seeing as you need a spare set,might as well just get rounded cables and leave hack jobs to the hacks,

JJJJJ
19-04-2004, 02:37 PM
Regardless of what Metla thinks Round cables (as with SATA hard drive) will drop your temperature something likr 10 degrees. My system now never exceeds 30 degrees. With the previous IDE drive temp was usualy in the 40's.
As far as I'm concerned that's all the reason you need to switch to SATA.
Jack

metla
19-04-2004, 02:50 PM
JJJJ, haven't you got an entirely new system?

And round cables won't drop your temperature .0000000000000000005 of a degree unless they are routed poorly in the first place.

So logic would dictate that a poorly designed or assembled unit would have temperature issues, the shape of the cable is irrelevant.

Graham L
20-04-2004, 02:19 PM
It's quite simple. Better air flow helps heat removal . Cables with less cross section help air flow. When the length of cables is limited, they can't always be routed out of the critical air flow paths in a particular case with a particular motherboard and with disks in particular places.

So small cross section cables are a Good Thing.

I wouldn't make a round IDE cable ... they're cheap enough.

But if anyone wants to make one, I found a small cross-section one this morning. It's a very short one and obviously was installed with a twist (from a fore-aft socket on the MB to a socket parallel with the front panel). It's a 40 wire one, with the flat cable split into groups of 5 wires. The centre sectionof tha cable is thus roughly a 5x8 wire rectangle.

Ribbon cable splits very easily --- just be careful not to cut into any wires. :-( An 80 wire cable would be better (in groups of 10 wires) in that each signal wire would have its earth wire beside it-- 40 wire cables don't have an earth for each signal. It's probably a bad idea to strap the bundle tightly ... perhaps a few rubber bands to hold them loosely in shape.

I have no idea how well such a cable would work at the fast IDE rates ... PDP11 bus cables were fixed lengths (3 feet,6 feet,10 feet, I think) and often had to be folded to tidy them up (and for better air flow:D).They wre double cables with about 120 conductor. One of the standard procedures was to interleave an aluminium foil layer ,to maintain the impedance. But they were properly terminated transmission lines and running only about 1 or so MHz. IDE cables were once "terminated" with standard TTL, but I bet CMOS buffers aren't 120ohms. :D