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beetle
03-03-2004, 03:18 PM
Hi
be prepared for question overload......
:p

we are thinking of getting a digital camera, our price is fluctuating anything over under $400 - $ over a thousand shall we say???
quite dramatically at moment. if we find the right camera open to price a little????

but i and hubby have some questions.

mega pixels : best over 2 if possible? i would like 3+ ? is this a good idea?

what does optical zoom do?
what does digital zoom do?

memory card most come with (advertising says) 16MB this is just memory? which is approx how many average photos?
what is the difference or what actually is XD or SD cards?
some also talk about built in memory?

also i like a camera to look like a camera not some of these matchboxes you see about, are these likely to better or worse? i like something comfortable to hold. :D

im not asking for this / that brand, (but have been looking at the latest Harvey Normal flyer) just need to know what each blurb means, new feild to get lost in i guess.

i just say yes i want one then when i start looking i put into too hard a pile. this would be used for personal family pics, and as well as business use, web page photos and advertising, pictures of the building and also 4X4 stuff when i have free time.


thank you????

sorry, you may put this in the too hard pile now, :p


beetle

Graham L
03-03-2004, 03:33 PM
These days, you won't buy a 2MP, except for end-of-line specials. (aopart from 100kP and 300kP web cameras --- you can get one of those for $29) The starting point fotr real digital cameras is now 3.2MP. (That's this week, anyway. This technology is moving ;-)).

Optical zoom gets far-away things closer by making the lens longer. A Good Thing. Essential.

Digital zoom makes far-away things "look" closer by cutting off outside pixels, and repeating the inner pixels. This gives a major reduction in picture quality. Not useful (except for lookig at bits of a picture on the little LCD screen after you have taken the picture. (My Canon disables digital zoom while taking by default).

Memory card: More is better. My 2MP Canon came with an 8MB which hold s a reasonable number of pictures. The 64MB I have put in holds more. :D
Built in memory will never be big enough. :D

Buy a camera which looks like a camera, and is comfortable to hold. No problem. (I believe there are some models sold as jewelry. Some people will pay a lot of money for such things. Let them.)

Go into a shop and try them. Go to another shop and try some more. Unlike film cameras, you can take actual pictures and see the results.

The esteemed robo has written a book about digital cameras. There are others. Have a look at a library.

Susan B
03-03-2004, 03:45 PM
Hey Beetle :-)

I would highly recommend that you pop down to Whitcoulls or your favourite bookstore and pick up Robo's book Get the Most From Your Digital Camera (http://www.frogprints.co.nz/buy/book.cfm). It is well-written, easy to read and has a wealth of really good information.

Also bookmark and have a good look around these sites:

http://www.dpreview.com/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1538516,00.asp

http://www.frogprint.co.nz/

This thread (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=43193&message=234262&q=robo#234262) might be useful too.

Don't forget to shop around for prices before you buy - there is a huge difference between some stores/shops.

Susan B
03-03-2004, 03:50 PM
Actually that thread wasn't the one I was thinking of. There have been heaps of good digital camera threads on here over the past year, do a search and you'll drag them all up. :D

metla
03-03-2004, 03:57 PM
this one?

http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=44852&message=249418&q=#249418

metla
03-03-2004, 04:00 PM
And what beetle should be thinking is...

....hmmm......I believe Metla sells the entire range of Kodak camera's,i wonder what his prices are like?.....

oggy
03-03-2004, 04:00 PM
Hiya
Just bought our second digital camera. 3.2 megapixels Kodak 3660 for $450. Looks and feels like a camera. Stunned at the quality of the image and I haven't even used it on the highest quality setting. I'm sure that for any normal use (including business) 3 or so megapixels will be heaps and 2 would probably do. (I've been using 1/2 megapixel for 3 or so years and it hasn't killed me.) Remember more megapixels also means larger files and less photos that can be taken.
Digital zoom was a waste of time on the old camera but I've used it once on the new one and it produced a good result. Optical zoom is more important though as it uses the lense rather than software to create the image. Go for something with about 3x optical zoom and whatever digital zoom goes with it.
Memory. 16mb will hold from 16 to 50 photos depending on quality setting. Remember, you can delete photos on the fly so you can take say 3 of one scene then review them and keep just the best.
Check out reviews on line (use Google) and then look around for good deals on the camera you want.
Final word...I felt it best to get a camera from a company who has been making them for years. They will use good lenses and they will make a camera to be a camera...not a fashion accessory or an electronic toy.

Winston001
03-03-2004, 04:27 PM
Ditto to all of the above. Except that I have slight reservations about Kodak.
They are a huge film manufacturer but have no reputation as a high quality camera manufacturer. Not to say there is anything wrong with their digital cameras.

I had a look at the Harvey Norman brochure too. My pick is the Canon EOS at $2100 but funnily enough I don't want to spend the money.
You see I bought a Canon EOS 10 years ago with excellent lenses for $1800 and want to be able to uses those lenses on a digital body.
Just a matter of patience.

In the meantime I am coming to the view that a cheap 2 or 3.2mp camera would fill the gap.

Read Robo's book, search for reviews, and deal with someone you can go back to for warranty support.

Cheers
Winston

dipstick01
03-03-2004, 08:58 PM
Good camera for general type photography is either the Canon a80 or the sony dscp10.
Both are in the $800 to $900 range and are very easy cameras to use with more features to use at a later date once you get used to it.
They both take brilliant photos and at 4 megapixels for the Canon and 5 for the sony you have ample info in the pictures to play with them later on your PC.
Don't worry about the large type cameras unless you plan on getting into in depth photography, also beware of some of the cheaper cameras as they tend to have plastic bodys that cannot take the occaisional bump etc that the metal body cameras can handle, if its being carried around on trips etc with you it will get the occaisional bump.
At the moment I have the new Sony dscf828 camera at home for some "Product Knowledge" OK OK the boss is away and I wanted to have a good play anyway this is one damn nice camera but at $2200 tends to be out of most peoples price range and has features the average user would not use hence the stay away from the top end units unless you can use what you are paying for.
Just look for a camera that is NOT big or heavy to carry around and has at least 3x optical zoom. Optical zoom is zooming by the lens not the processor making up the info basically (digital )
Grab the manufacturers glossy book (sony canon and panasonic have very good ones ) and read the glossary and other blurbs inside as they actually have a ton of info and help to explain all those mystical terms.

beetle
03-03-2004, 09:16 PM
Hi all
thanxs for the input so far, and the off PF1 help from various people as well,
in the past i am used to carting a big bag aound with all my gear (flash's lense's and body's ) so will be no prob adding some weight. as i back pack most of it when on the feild taking photos, as well as the foodie supplies...lol

i just personally dont like the look of the little sqyaure boxy things i like a SLR shape fell etc .

we may be swayed now to a 3- 5 megapixel instead of what we first thought of. (larger) i want good pics, as i do take lots of normal pics so would be great to put them straight onto disk instead of before scanning them. and yes i know some photo shops do it but never remember to ask.

i like Canon, my SIL has one (professional $3000, one) which we looked at getting through her at one stage (she was in the industry so cheaper)

but decided it may be more than i need, lol i would have loved it though,

im still interested in others ideas as well, so if anyone else has any news feel free.
if i actually buy something someone has recomended or other wise ill let you know.

still interesting reading.
makes me realise again how little i know in these fields of knowledge, (comps / camera's)



beetle

dipstick01
03-03-2004, 10:11 PM
In that case also look at the Panasonic DMCFZ10 which is a 4 megapixel camera but has 12x optical zoom with Leica lenses and has received some quite nice reviews.
Otherwise if the purse strings stretch look at either the Sony DSCF828 which is an 8 megapixel with 7x optical unit and as mentioned before a lot of fun......it also takes the picture in many different formats and takes 2 types of storage media.
Sadly we do not YET stock the Canon Range of cameras however have a damn good look at them also as they are also brilliant cameras.

Sherilee
03-03-2004, 11:53 PM
http://www.etown.co.nz/detail.asp?item=247

What about this one??
We are also in the market for a camera
Hubby thinks Optical zoom is ultra he likes the 10
I have noticed even the really expensive cameras don't have this, is it really that important???????

godfather
04-03-2004, 12:06 AM
Would also suggest looking at this one.
http://www.etown.co.nz/detail.asp?item=213

I have the earlier model S602Z, which is somewhat similar. Full manual or point and shoot, works much like a "real" SLR (Single Lens Reflex) camera. A joy to use.

beetle, make sure you get any optional insurance offered... you know how these things go ...

Elephant
04-03-2004, 01:16 AM
> In that case also look at the Panasonic DMCFZ10 which
> is a 4 megapixel camera but has 12x optical zoom with
> Leica lenses and has received some quite nice
> reviews.
> Otherwise if the purse strings stretch look at either
> the Sony DSCF828 which is an 8 megapixel with 7x
> optical unit and as mentioned before a lot of
> fun......it also takes the picture in many different
> formats and takes 2 types of storage media.

The two exact camera models are the two I am thinking about at the moment. I am defintely going toward the Sony even though close to twice the price. Carl Ziess lens as opposed to Leica. 8 Megapixels as opposed to 4 Megapixels. But... The FZ10 has 12X zoom and image stabiliser which makes me think again.

> Sadly we do not YET stock the Canon Range of cameras
> however have a damn good look at them also as they
> are also brilliant cameras.

Thanks for your input. Off to the net and find a Canon close to $2000 which will do what I want. I'm almost certain I will go with the Sony and plan on putting the IBM 1 Gig drive in it. I can also use SD memory. I just look at taking heaps of photos while on holiday so I'm thinking about spare batteries and cards. On holiday I have no access to my computer but can get to a photo shop which will save all stored images to a CDRom. Rather than the IBM Drive / Card I may be looking at SDRam instead which makes me go back to the FZ10. I have seen pictures off a 5 Megapixel Canon with 3X Optical zoom so I will look at the Canon brand.

In my case I worked out what I wanted then phoned a member of my local camera club. My first choice was the SonyF828 but I phoned him to see what he thought. He suggested the Panasonic FZ10.

Now you are suggesting have a look at the Canon range which I will defintley do. Back to www.dpreview.com again.

Thanks for the input and I'm almost certain Beetle will be impressed.

stevej
04-03-2004, 01:22 AM
have a look at an fuji s7000
they are better than they seem
i know i got one a few weeks ago and am very happy i did
http://www.etown.co.nz/detail.asp?item=937

Elephant
04-03-2004, 02:06 AM
My opinion. Your link to the Olympus Camera is fine. Optical Zoom is important. More so than Digital zoom. Probably all Beetle needs.

Just several thoughts here though:-

1. A mate of mine bought a 2.1 Megapixel camera about two years ago.
He since bought a 4 megapixel camera with 3X Optical zoom and has outgrown that.

2. The same mate has asked me for MY opinion and I have also outgrown my 2.1 Megapixel camera with no Optical zoom so I am also in the market for a camera.

3. I have a scanner and an Olympus 35 mm camera and can take pictures with the camera then scan but I have to get the whole film printed including cutting off off the top of Aunt Marys' head etc. If more than Aunt Mary is in the picture like the niece for example I can cut out the niece and do a portait type thing as it were.

4. Digital cameras have dropped in price and even some Pro potographers have dumped 35mm expensive cameras in favour of digital cameras.

5. Now we get to printing. On my 2.1 Megapixel camera I don't feel real happy on printing much more than a 7"x 5" image. Having said that I don't think you need to print everything but sometimes you want to. Even on the 2.1 Meg camera I have I had to reduce image size to go on a web page. People just may consider taking photos with whatever camera they have and copying to CDRom those pics they want printed and take to a photo shop. Hey,"I want this on an A3 lump of paper."
This won't work with a 2 Meg camera. I have an HP 5550 printer and I just want to print the odd one on A4

6. This is why I want to get better Megapixels and optical zoom I have now.

I hope this helps.

dipstick01
04-03-2004, 08:54 AM
Well if ya are anywhere near the Hawkes Bay before you buy give me a yell and I'll let you have a play with both cameras and can even show you various photos taken with both the Sony and the Panasonic.

My choice is the Sony if the $$ is not a problem but for a nice camera at the $1300 mark the Pana is a damn nice camera its just the Sony has double the megapixel rating and also takes either Memory Stick, Compact Flash or Micro Drive as storage media.

I've had the Sony here for the last 2 days and I'm only starting to scratch the surface of what this camera can do.

You are right about Optical zoom being more important than digital, the results from photos taken with optical and digital zoom are very different and distinct with optical giving a much nicer finish.

As for printing out your pictures on A4 a lot depends on your printer but I have printed out 3.2 and 5 megapixel pictures on A4 and would say NO to 3.2 in that size picture. The 5 megapixel does print out pretty damn good but it does still have some slight breakdown in image quality..... peer closely at the picture and might spot it ( unless you are a customer and then you spot every blemish from half a mile away )

Scouse
04-03-2004, 09:24 AM
Hi Beetle
Apart from oggie's purchase of a second hand camera, most people here seem to me to be stretching your purse....
"we are thinking of getting a digital camera, our price is fluctuating anything over under $400 - $ over a thousand shall we say???
quite dramatically at moment. if we find the right camera open to price a little????"
Only you know what return you will get from this magic expensive tool. I have a simple 2.1 megapixel Microtek (written up in PC mag last year) and it is great. Clarity is extraordinary. I use it out tramping and for family snaps. I seldom need anything developed bigger than 150 x 100 and it does that perfectly.
When I need classy prints I merely email the selected snaps to Digitalmax and for 60 cents a shot they post them to my local retailer within two days.
Having been in the hospitality trade for a while, I appreciate how hard you work for that couple of thousand dollars. You must have had a good season.

Winston001
04-03-2004, 10:18 AM
Scouse makes a lot of sense. At present you are as well to go for a lower end camera and buy a really good one in a year - 18 months. Prices seem to be dropping by half in that period of time.

One option at the high end which seems to be completely overlooked is to buy a digital SLR body - the Canon EOS 300 for example (appears to come with a lens) at $2100.

The point is, buying a secondhand lens for Canon, Minolta, Nikon, Olympus etc is easy. You then have a magic machine with whatever telephoto you like.

This is still way outside most people's price range but is now realistic compared to a year ago when such bodies were $3500+.

The Sony might be fine but they do not make lenses and so far as I can tell, the lens is not removable anyway.

Just my 2 cents worth. :D

Winston001

oggy
04-03-2004, 10:21 AM
Yep
In my humble opinion you pay the first $400 odd dollars for the basic camera that will do the job and is probably 90% of what you want and the extra money pays for 'features'. If you want to pay an extra $300 / $500 for the extra features that's up to you.
For me, buying a 5 megapixel camera is a bit like buying a Ferrari when all I really want to do is drive around the corner to the shops. Obviously though, for those who will make their living out of a camera, buy as much camera as you can afford.

Steve_L
04-03-2004, 10:48 AM
Hello Beetle,

Be careful not to get lured into the mega-pixel trap. Lots of people will tell you to get at least 3.1 Mp, or 4, or as much as you can afford. Don't fall into this trap unless you are a professional photographer or want to blow up photos to poster size. Of course a camera with big Mps does gain status points which may be important if you are into that sort of thing.

I am on my 4th digcam, a Canon Powershop A70 3.1 Mp with 3x optical zoom and the usual digital zoom of around 3x. It is a great camera! It takes video clips WITH SOUND. Many other digcams will not have sound, so avoid them. By the way, PC World readers voted the Canon Powershot series as the most liked / best buy digital camera.

Back to the Mp fixation. I regularly print photos from jumbo 6x4 size up to 8x10, and NEVER use the highest resolution on my camera. Many times I have used 150 to 200 Kb Jpeg images and get them printed at a photo shop on glossy paper with NO pixelation whatsoever. I have printed 8x10 photos on an average Epson printer here at home, from images around 400 to 500 Kb and the results are beautiful: visitors are stunned at the photo quality and this includes a man who used to work in the photo industry. I use HP semi gloss photo paper which is cheap to buy.

2.1 Mp will do fine. Even for 8x10 photos. Claims that you need many more Megapixels are rubbish. But ask yourself, how many times will you actually print a photo larger than a 6x4, or a 5x7? Most people do not. Once you get into printing photos at home, you may choose to do larger photos. We have seven 8x10 photos framed and displayed on the walls at our home - all printed on my Epson C40UX, which is not regarded as a photo printer.

Optical zoom: get it. If you don't mind a larger camera, go for a 10 x zoom (e.g. Fuji).

Use the camera in the store before you buy it. AVOID a camera with a shutter delay: this means that you press the shutter button and a second or so later the camera takes the photo. This is really frustrating! Put the camera in flash mode and non-flash, to see if the delay exists.

Good luck and come back and tell us what you get. :)

Steve L

Tony.br
04-03-2004, 11:40 AM
You have had a raft of excellent suggestions, but i wanted to add another suggestion for consideration. I was recently asked by a friend for their advise.

I did some research and suggested the KODAK DX-6490

4 megapixel, 10 x OPTICAL Zoom and looks and feels like an SLR

Shop around and U can get one for under $1000.

www.steves-digicams.com

and

www.megapixel.net

both rate this camera very highly and my friend is delighted

I also noted a recent test in an overseas computer mag and out of 16 cameras, this was also given the Big Tick

As always, find one and hold it etc before you make a decision

Good Luck

beetle
04-03-2004, 03:20 PM
Oh dear what have i started????

i do not happen to be rolling in money so this thing will be a one and only purchase for many a year. we have looked and think our budget may be better spent under a $1000. if possible.

i actually like the look of a fuji fine pix???? about $900 ????
http://www.digitalcameras.co.nz/product.cfm?Product=1141

please do not scream if this is not what you expected, i have not made a final decision and am really not sure i want to spend all that much....

i like the idea of Optical as when 4X4 ing i like to take photos and need sometimes to be a distance away.

i have not had a chance to go shopping so am still in net look mode. but will look at the ones suggested and may hopefully get to the point that i know what i want, or what i need.

thanxs all
and hopefully i will have an answer for you all soon.
i wish i had a money tree though it would make the decision much easier.


beetle

beetle
04-03-2004, 03:32 PM
Snap Goddie i do like this one and hadnt checked your link till after i posted but i do like this one........


oh dear i wish....... have to wait and do the shops over and see who has one of these to play with??????

sigh patience beetle
:D

beetle

godfather
04-03-2004, 03:47 PM
They feel as good to use as they look....

I have a 1.85x Teleconverter lens on mine, its a huge piece of glass but still comfortable to hold, if a little large.

You really do need a couple of sets of rechargeable batteries, as all digicams are hard on batteries. My charger will also work off the car cigarette lighter which is handy.

beetle
04-03-2004, 03:57 PM
ok another question .

in some of the adds they talk about what they come with (the camera's ) and some say with Dock and some with out, what exactly does the dock entail or do?
the software comes with it for downloading, is a dock instead of cableling?
or as well as ? is this for downloading or recharging?

i am way new to this and have never seen or been around when someone has done downloading.

??????


beetle

dipstick01
04-03-2004, 04:11 PM
dock is a fancy littleunit that charges the camera and also connects to your PC for downloading pictures.....they seem to be just another way of doing things.

I have used both and don't care if it has one or not in all reality.

All you need with the camera to start is the leads that come with it, usually USB and camera to AV or video lead.

With accessories be cautious, I recommend to my customers they grab the minimums and work out what they need as they use the camera. I made the mistake of buying up when I got my first one only to find most of them I didn't need or use. I suggest the following
Bag
Extra Memory (depends on megapixel but 64mb at least)
Lens cleaner

extra batteries etc depend on the type that come with it but usually the one that comes with the camera will do you to start off.

godfather
04-03-2004, 04:14 PM
Kodak use a "dock" which is a "cradle" that connects via USB to the PC.
Its convenient but a "Kodak" thing only as far as I know.

Fuji just have a USB cable supplied, no need for a dock.

Fuji have software for downloading, and its easy to use and works well but its not actually needed for most camera types with Windows XP, as when you plug the camera in, it shows up as a "drive" under Explorer.
You can drag and drop or copy and past from the camera "drive" to the HDD.

I have a card "reader" in the PC, and often just take the card out and read it directly (again, it looks like a "drive")

In the S5000 recharging is done to the 4 AA batteries out of the camera. You cant charge them while they are in the camera. It runs fine on AA Alkalines as well. (4 are supplied)

The etown price of $639 is sharp....The S7000 is well priced as well (the S7000 features are closer to the S602 that I have, but the S602 has the same resolution as the S5000)

Bazza
04-03-2004, 07:00 PM
Hi Beetle: I can guess you are very confused after all the different advice here.

Even though I have owned/used four digi cameras, I have refrained from offering advice, as there can be so many opinions. The thing is, what value can you put on these opinions.

Some rubbish print quality from 2 or 3 mp cameras. Steve L is correct in stating he can get great A4 print quality from these. So do I. It depends on using best resolution and quality settings in the camera, plus a good printer & quality paper.

I wont list my opinion, except to say, take Godfather's advice. He is very experienced and his recommendations are very sound, as usual.

Best wishes.

beetle
04-03-2004, 09:59 PM
ok a few new questions,

what size memory card do you use?
approx how many pics do you do?
do you fill the whole card then download or in bits and peices?

how long does an average battery last time wise on a Digital camera before needing to recharge it?

and at Moment the only supplier that has the camera i like is Harvey Norman, none of the Camera shops here stock that brand ????? so may have to bite the bullet and go there to looky see.

sigh

beetle

Bazza
04-03-2004, 11:00 PM
Good questions Beetle:
Get the biggest mem card you can afford. The # of pics you can save to the card will depend on the mp & quality in the camera you select. Always best to choose the best/highest quality. The # of pics depends on the resolution & quality you choose on the camera.

As to batteries.. I've been through all that, and so recommend cameras like Godfather does that use AA batteries. They come with high capacities, easily rechargeable, like the Powerex 2200 mah, combined with the Maha charger. These are fantastic with great battery life.

godfather
04-03-2004, 11:41 PM
Batteries - theoretically ~200 shots per charge, but I use a freshly charged set everytime I take it out.
I carry 4 Alkalines or another set of charged cells as well, just in case. I use 2000 mAH NiMh rechargeables. Bazza is right about newer rechargeables. Battery life is less important with a couple of sets.

Memory. - Mine uses both SmartMedia and CF (CompactFlash) cards.
My old digicam uses SmartMedia so have several 32MB cards. My pocket PC uses CF cards so have 64MB, 256MB and 1 GB cards. CF are quite cheap.

On basic 640 x 480 photos it will fit over 8,000 on the 1 GB card.
On full 6 MP raw "interpolated" file it will fit about 60 on 1 GB

I use no more than the standard 3 MP file, and file sizes of 1 - 2 MB. Approx 800 photos per GB.

It will also do up to 30 minutes of video with sound on 1 GB.

I download when I have taken the picture, then erase the card. As most of my pictures are work related I need them instantly anyway, so they don't need to stay on the camera.

Blue Druid
05-03-2004, 12:03 AM
A nice feature of the S602 is that it will take both Compact Flash AND Smart Media cards simultaneously. I have a 128Mb of each in my S602 for covering weddings and the like where I want a lot of images but have no opportunity to download until afterwards. It will also accept a microdrive in the CF slot giving over a Gb of memory of you need a lot of storage.

There are still some S602s available at greatly reduced prices (they were over $2000 - now under $1000 but you'll have to shop around.

I find the digital viewfinder preferable to optical because you can also use it for reviewing images and the menus in bright light where the LCD is useless. It has diopter correction too.

Endorse Godfather's comments on batteries, though.

Steve_L
05-03-2004, 03:45 PM
Hello Beetle,

I think you will like the Fuji cameras with 10x or 12x optical zoom. I used one at xmas with 10x optical because my wife had our Canon 3x optical on an overseas trip.... the 10x optical was wicked! But for me, the Fuji was too large. I like a small camera, one that I can easily clip on my belt using a case.

SHOP AROUND for a good price and you will find probably 100 or 200 dollars variation. I cannot recall the name of the shop, but there is a camera store in Auckland that usually advertises in the front page of the Herald - bottom of page - their prices are the best. If you don't live in AKL, just play the game of looking locally and pretending that you will buy there.

In your price range, my advice would be to get a 128 Mb memory card. But then again, it depends.... If you are planning an overseas trip, or taking video clips, then a large mem card is a must - at least 128 Mb, but if you stay near your PC and take mostly photos, then probably a 64 Mb will do, maybe a 32. But really, compare the prices because you won't pay much more for double the memory. An extra 20 bucks or so may get twice the memory.

BATTERIES: shop around for a charger. Most come with 4 AA batteries. Don't pay more than about $40. I gave this advice to a friend and she was talked into a $90 unit that crapped out after a few weeks. Remember, if you buy at Dick Smith Electronics (I think they have a good price on a charger) you can take it back within 7 days for a full refund.

SIZE OF BATTERIES: try for 2100 milliamps. Older batteries are 1500 ma. The larger the size in milliamps, the longer they will last. Always buy an extra set of batteries. I gave my wife 3 sets of NiMH batteries (our Canon takes 4 AA's) when she went to India last December. Guess what she did????? Threw the two used sets away thinking they were Alkalines!!!! :( :( She is not technical at all, and looked at me blankly when I asked her what she thought I was doing charging the AA's over a 3 year period!!! Oh well, it was funny in a way, and I made her buy new AA's - Ha!

Good luck Beetle, and remember to take note if the movie mode includes sound - you will love not watching silent film clips!

Steve L

beetle
05-03-2004, 04:12 PM
another one, question that is,

even if i got the fuji, and it has say 6 mega pixels i can set it to run a lower pixel rates ? when i take photos?

but i like the idea of not having to upgrade it in so much of a hurry if it has a little lee way in MP size, as this is going to be a long time before we ever upgrade it again.

does this sound right, i think this is what some of you have been saying, photos saved at different mp rate then i can get more on my mem card? but i can alter this easily when taking photos any way cant i and have more than mp size on a mem card?

sounds a bit off what im trying to ask / explain???

and as for the batteries i will have to go see and look as im a bit lost , but got the basics now......

thanxs all
beetle

godfather
05-03-2004, 04:59 PM
Yes, you can choose what resolution to shoot with. A choice of 1, 3 or 6 MP with several quality settings for each choice with my model. 8 choices in all.

On the S602 everything is adjustable, even the film speed from 160 ASA to 1600 ASA. Or, set it to auto and its "point and shoot"

I never use the highest anyway, as I need the pictures for reports and lower resolution is fine.

It saves me having to edit the photo and reduce the size.

beetle
05-03-2004, 07:36 PM
i went to HN and had a play with this Fuji camera, and i think i am suffering from a very big version of Want something very much now.
i found it very easy to use, very similar to my SLR camera's i already have, and think i could have this one :D and it be my close companion for years:p

the lady who did the speel said i would need to get a charger (thats ok i expected that) she said iwould need a bigger memory card (yep) and also said i would need a bag, ....... they only had namby pamby bags...... so not to worried about that one.
she then talked about a warranty, cant remember exactly what she said but if i buy 1 or 2 years worth i will get double theyears amount for free????? that one threw me, is this the norm at mo?

is there likely to be anything else i would need straight away???
i did forget to ask what a second lot of batteries would cost though, and the tele lens it says on the flyer cost????? dreaming here:p

she aslo was serving another customer at similar time, and sold him lots the poor sucker....... spent probably more than what the one i was looking it costs.. just in accessories....
i told her i had looked on the net and had got details and basically said everything she said at same time which threw her i think...... obviously not many people reseach something this close before shopping with them.

i am trying not to have blinkers on about other products at mo but am finding that rather difficult.
and i also really appreciate the help and ideas every one has given me, much more reading than i was expecting, there are some bloody good camera's out there, wish i had a little more to spend really coulda gone overboard...... :p

thanxs for the ramble, got to play the patience game now. :D

beetle

godfather
05-03-2004, 08:53 PM
Here is something to get you through the weekend (http://sal.neoburn.net/imagef1/files/cam2.jpg)

Its my S602 with the 1.85x Teleconverter lens.
Expect to pay $250 - $300 for a lens, but its not a "must have" at the start. The one in the pix is not a Fuji lens, its a Raynox.

Batteries are about $30+ for a set of 4 depending on brand and capacity.

If you are wondering how I took a digital picture of my digital camera using my digital camera, its all about being quick.

Very very quick....

beetle
05-03-2004, 09:03 PM
LOL

nothing surprises me anymore with you Goddie, you are always one step ahead of us in every aspect it seems.
so taking a photo of your camera with your suposed said camera is just a run of the mill thing we expect of you.....:p
and for your next trick????


what do you mean about capacity of battery's????

and yes the idea of the tele lens appeals to me, but down the track maybe, if there is something i need to take that far away, i can always resort to my normal SLR's and there zzoom lense's i guess. just got to remember to have film...:D

thanxs Goddie,
why did you go for such a large toy anyway????
but then you really like your toys, you would almost have to have a roster to use them all wouldnt you???? :p


beetle

Neil McC
05-03-2004, 09:55 PM
Thanks for all the info you're gathering,beetle (and Goddie).We are looking at present for a decent digital.Has to be near my Canon A1 in quality (but not weight!) My wife actually uses her little 35mm more than I do,I seem to have the video camera when we go anywhere.So I want something she can easily use as well,but she has said for me to get what I want as I would be playing with it!!!! ?:|

godfather
05-03-2004, 10:22 PM
Batteries come in different capacities (the amount of energy they hold).
Measured in Milliamps/hour (mA/hr)
600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1700, 1800, 2000, 2200 are all typical capacities. Think of it as the size of the fuel tank.

I have sets of 4 each of 1400, 1700, 2000 types, which were the best available at the time each set was purchased. The cameras usually use 4, and they must all be the same capacity and type in each set. You must not mix sizes.

Now available up to 2200 mA/hr or more.
As an example an Alkaline (non rechargeable) should hold about 2800 mA/hr.

The higher capacity the longer they go before a charge.

Remember the zoom on an S5000 is already x10, so a tele lens on top of that may make it too hard to keep still if not using a tripod.

Re the "insurance" they try to sell, its optional. Its not essential. They sell it because they make money from it. Your choice, the camera has a warranty irrespective of insurance.

Steve_L
05-03-2004, 10:27 PM
Beetle, if you are not in a huge rush, then just go to as many camera shops as possible and find a knowledgeable salesperson (some of these people are in the know while others are useless). Print these helpful F1 comments with you along with a few web page specifications of your favourite cameras. After several shops you will be an expert on digcams. The last shop I went to (in Wgtn) was one with the most knowledgeable guys, and I wound up telling him a few things about the Canon that he was not aware of.

Yep, shopping around and asking questions is the best way to learn and the best way to get a camera that you will be your trusty companion, etc. ;)

Steve L

beetle
05-03-2004, 10:40 PM
hi ya

We only have 2 proper camera shops here, the rest are places like DSE, Harvey Norman.
i dont know who else would stock camera's here. does Farmers? Noel lemings?

no rush, next week will be fine ....:p
time is in short supply here, the only reason i got to see the camera today was its on the way to supermarket.......stocking up for a busy weekend.
and not much option of going out of town any time soon it seems either.

thanxs all,

beetle

Steve_L
05-03-2004, 10:49 PM
<< even if i got the fuji, and it has say 6 mega pixels i can set it to run a lower pixel rates ? when i take photos? but i like the idea of not having to upgrade it in so much of a hurry if it has a little lee way in MP size, as this is going to be a long time before we ever upgrade it again. >>

Beetle, most mid range cams are at least 3.1 Mp, and this is plenty. 6 Mp would be an overkill unless you plan to do poster size photos (but you'd have to go to a specialist printer to get it made!). Really, the big Mp thing is a trap and a status thing. Even a camera with 2.1 Mp would suit just about everyone (except for the status thing).

MOVIE MODE: forgot to mention before about the resolution of doing film clips. My Canon A70 has 3 resolution settings. What this means is that taking a movie at the lowest setting will allow much longer movies since it will not fill up the memory card so fast. But the lowest setting results in a small movie. I like to view our movies on the PC 17 inch screen full size, or better yet on our 29 inch TV. Using the medium resolution give a movie that is nearly video cam quality (most people would not notice the difference). At the highest resolution it gives vidcam quality. Normally I use medium resolution.

Now if you don't think you will shoot movies, think again. Having a digcam changes your photography activity, especially if it has a movie mode and doubly so if the movie are with sound.

Resolutions: I am doing this off the top of my head, but the lowest resolution is 320 x 210 pixels (or close to these numbers). Medium resolution is 640 by 480, and high is 1280 x 1070 or whatever - cannot recall.

The point is this: find out if the Fuji (or whatever camera you like the best now) has changeable movie resolution settings. If you get stuck with the small 320 x 210, forget it and get another camera.

By the way, I just had a look at Goddie's camera. Nice lens!

MACRO : this allows close up work. Most all cameras have this feature, but try it yourself in the shop to see how close you can get.

Yawn.......going to bed now........

beetle
06-03-2004, 02:42 PM
LOL
i meant to say if it had 6 mega pixels, not that it does. it has 3.1 the one i am looking at. this was just a open question not based on the actual product i am looking at.
i want to get as many MP wise as pos, but also want it to do what i want as in zoom, zoom is probably my main instigator on this subject.
but not to the point of overkill or to the point little or of no use to me as is.

and no if it does all i want on this size, i am not looking for a larger MP size.
i just know i will want a large memory card as i usually take anything up to 6 films away with me when 4X4 as i am the main photography for the team.
(photography is my hobby)
so will be lugging round all the gear and both types of cameras possibly.

i want to have new camera as soon as, so at easter i am all sorted with how to use it for the local race 4X4 then. plenty of time i hope.

just got to be patient till next week........ the fuji is probably what i will get unless i find something else similar or better for price.


beetle

Scouse
06-03-2004, 03:13 PM
Hi Beetle
Just when it looked as though things were settling.... if you have access, Consumer Mag site has ratings on 60 digital cameras............ Scouse

beetle
06-03-2004, 03:21 PM
Im not a subscriber so cant gain access to it.

does it talk about Fuji?

what else does it say anything helpful?

beetle

Elephant
06-03-2004, 08:47 PM
All very good advice Steve_L.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that Beetle goes off and gets the 8 Megapixel camera.

In MY case I want the best camera I can afford as I don't think I will be able to afford to buy another one. The Sony F828 has many features and I may not even use all of them. The feature from the Sony that I like is than you can hold the camera up over a crowd in front of you and tilt the lense down but still frame the photo well. I don't know how often I will do that but it's nice to know it is there. I don't know if any other camera will do this.

Just like Operatings sytems ( Shudder ), Cars, Washing machines etc... etc... Ad Nauseaum.... It's horses for courses.

Why are there so many arguments about different brands? Take a Ford owner talking to a Holden owner for example or even a (Win owner ( or license ) as we don't own Win anyway) talking to a BeOS owner.

I guess we all like to think that we know best and if we back it up by actually spending money on a product then find that someone says, "You could have bought the Ford (or Holden) at a cheaper price." then we have to justify the purchase.

Most of us are constrained by budget matters otherwise we would all live in Bill Gates' place and drive a Ferrari or Rolls to work on a regular basis. Whoops.... That's an upgrade from the Ford vs Holden debate.

I think we had this type of arguement in School even.... "My Dad is bigger than YOUR Dad....Nahnah." "Yes but My Dad's a policeman so there..."

We all do this don't we? Just human nature I guess.

Anyway. Please don't take this as a dig against you or your post. Take a look at my first sentence. :-)

Elephant
06-03-2004, 09:02 PM
dipstick001.

The thought occurred to me to take you up on your offer but the $2200 price tag you say here has me worried. It is less than Noel Leeming will charge though. :-)

But. Being the sort of person I am I will not come and play with your cameras then not buy from you.

You can Email me at
tony (.) frew (at) southwaikato (dot) net (.) nz if you want.

Put in the subject line Digital Camera otherwise your Email is likely to be bounced.

Elephant
06-03-2004, 09:23 PM
Godfather... I know you are talking to Beetle and in my humble opinion you do well. Actually I would say you do more than well. :-)


The only camera I have seen with "docking cradles" are Kodak.

I plug my current 2.1 Megapixel camera into my USB port and it turns up as both a video device and still picture device. Drivers ( twain ) installed using WinXP. As you say. Just use the camera like a floppy drive or CD and drag and drop under WinXP.

It works fine for me.

Having said that some software can be important too.

I have Photoshop 7 and Paintshop Pro 8 on my computer. Mostly I use Paintshop pro 8 to edit photos and I would recommend this to anyone.

Paid more for the software than what I paid for the cameras didn't I?

dipstick01
06-03-2004, 09:24 PM
lol its no problem if ya come and play with the cameras without buying. Everyone has a salesperson etc that they hit it off with and end up buying from, all I do in the shop is offer the options to the customers and try to give them advice that steers them in the right direction.
If ya want a camera to do all the bits with then you have to pay a few more $$ and go towards the top end but if ya just want to carry round something to do good pictures without the size then look at the middle of the range. Its amazing how many customers I have that have been brainwashed by various stores into HAVING to buy the biggest and the best..........bugger that buy what suits you and your wallet but I usually recommend stretching the wallet a little to grab something people will be happy with 2 years down the track not just 6 months.

I'll email you and if ya want a Sony, Panasonic or Canon camera then I can give you a good price. I won't say its the best as sometimes the opposition gets a good buy on certain models but I'll keep the pencil sharpener handy lol.

Neil McC
07-03-2004, 10:46 AM
Which shop are you in ,if I'm allowed to ask,dipstick01.My wife says I'm allowed to get a new camera!

dipstick01
07-03-2004, 01:29 PM
I work for Duckworths Retravision Napier. I'm in charge of Computers and Cameras....mainly cause the boss knows very little about them lol.
If you are interested in a price on Cameras then email me at
audio (at) duckworths (dot) co (dot) nz

I'll do a nice price for the guys from Pressf1. I won't always be the best but I'll give it a fair crack.

I'm sure there are a few people in here who work for various opposition stores also so don't be shy in asking people as we all have different suppliers who gve different discounts to the shops.

Thomas01
07-03-2004, 02:24 PM
I had a Leica - terrific camera and fairly simple despite its cost of $2000 several years ago. I think the emphasis on megapixels is overdone. We don't need them to be honest. The Consumers picked the Olympus as giving the best results both in manual and automatic made of more than 60 cameras they tried. So I bought one. Less than half the cost of the Leica (got stolen), but a huge difference. Extremely powerful it is taking me for ever to learn how to use it. But I reckon it was the right choice. Just got to spend some time learning what it is capable of. Join the Consumers to get some good description and write ups etc.

beetle
07-03-2004, 02:57 PM
ok,


I have read this last post from you Elephant quite a few times and still uncertain what you mean about Goddie doing well ??? in talking with me!

LOL
is it his English simple language he speaks for me?
or am i just thick and he is talking gobbledegook??? :p
or is it that he puts up with my thoughtless random questions that he or any one may just understand???

every body has the patience of a saint it seems when beetle is on the PF1 post / thread

and i am now lost as to what was the other point or question i was going to say / make, ????

must be time for lunch.......
may come to me in time.

i appreciate all the help and ideas every one has passed on and hope no one takes offence if i didnt seem to pick their camera they posted about or even their brand, and if i happen to pick a lemon you have rightful prividges to say i told you :p
thanxs all.


beetle

dipstick01
07-03-2004, 02:59 PM
Might I suggest not relying too heavily on Consumer magazine and their "testing"
Tone, PCWorld,FFwd are just some magazines that do reviews on various cameras etc and are generally reviewed by people that actually use the type of product they write about.
I have seen consumer reviews done on various products that have not been tested on a level playing field so to speak.
There is also the good old "pick it up and try it" type of test that most stores will be more than happy to let you do. Take along a certain object you can photograph and try out different cameras in different shops. Look at the results on a computer NOT just on the LCD screen of the camera as everything looks good on those. If possible email the picture home or put it on disc or USB key and then view them all side by side on your system at home.
This is still the best way by far to "test" a product and if the shop won't help you do that then find another shop.

promethius
07-03-2004, 05:03 PM
I recently purchased a Panasonic (Lumix) DMC - FZ1 from Noel Leemings. (link http://www.panasonic.co.nz/web_content2.asp?id=100006863)

At $399 I think I did very well. 12x optical zoom, 2.1 mp (enough for me)...

I think this was a "run-out" model, but maybe worth having a look at? (if they are still selling them).

The specs say it comes with an 8mb card, but after opening the box and finding the card missing, I rang and complained and eventually recieved a 32mb card. This will take 270 photos at 640 x 480 (less at higher res obviously) and 170 seconds of video at 320 x 240 (with sound). I'm not sure if this was a mistake or not, but hey I'm not exactly complaining.

Another nice feature is the ability to record up to 10 seconds of sound with each picure taken.

promethius
07-03-2004, 05:06 PM
Sorry about the bold...I don't know how I managed that?

dipstick01
07-03-2004, 05:13 PM
The Panasonic Lumix FZ1 is still available and is a damn nice camera. Yes its only 2.1 megapixel but the 12x optical lens does make up for the lack of megapixels and they also had the brains to include a good image stabilizer in the camera. At 12x zoom any slight shake is magnified drastically.
The camera is still available from most suppliers and the price on them is quite reasonable. Panasonic have since released the FZ10 which is a 4 megapixel version with the 12x lens/zoom. The FZ10 is a brilliant camera for the average user who wants to do a little bit more than just happy snaps.

This topic seems to have raised quite a bit of opinion in the world of cameras and everyone will have their own preference.
All I can say is choose the camera that seems right for you not the bloke standing next to you. Its you that will be using it.

wuppo
07-03-2004, 05:52 PM
>i am used to carting a big bag aound with all my gear (flash's lense's and body's

If you are into serious flash photography, don't forget to check the camera you choose has a hot shoe or flash socket - the internal flash units tend to be somewhat underpowered [now where's that mecablitz...] :|

Steve_L
07-03-2004, 09:53 PM
>Paid more for the software than what I paid for the cameras didn't I?

There are people who make a trip to Bangkok or into China, get cheapie software such as the newest Photoshop, etc., have a great holiday, maybe get new (legal) hardware, even clothing, and arrive back in NZ having spent less than laying out huge for the very expensive software here. But of course getting software for 10 or 20 bucks is not legal and cannot be condoned. Just thought I'd throw this tidbit in the fire. ;) Geez, a friend of mine had to have major dental work, crowns etc., so he went to Bangkok for the dentistry (yes, there are ones that can be trusted - the high end dentists that the rich and foreigners use)....he returned with a diploma in Thai massage, and more money in his pocket than if he had the dental work done here.

Anyhow, Beetle, this thread has been fun so thanks for starting it. :) You're gonna love the 10 or 12x zoom cuz surely you have a tripod and know your photo stuff.

Consumers Mag: see it at your local library. But I tend to agree not to place absolute faith in their reports (except their lemons probably deserve it).

Fuji is fine, but really, most all big brands are going to be OK (maybe not Kodak).

You are going to post a few 4x4 photos on the web for us to see, right??!! Cheers - Steve

beetle
07-03-2004, 10:34 PM
LOL yes i have a tripod, im onto my second one in fact......:D i wonder why.... ?:| with my current history on here i think you can guess ???? :D and it wasnt electrical either.


i can hardly wait to get my hands on any decent digital camera, but am being as patient as possible, and now there'sno 4X4 racing till Easter.....:(
but the Racing is here at Easter !!! so have to practice and be onto it by then .......

and consumers thingy, im just looking at it from the side of owning a lemon already and not knowing the facts before i bought it as i would never have bought the PC comp puter had i known....thanks to some gabbed salesperson!!!! he blew both of us away (hubby and me) so am not good on the trust thing with sales people.

and yes when i get a bit more organised, as i never am it seems ( im told this often :D) i will hopefully post some pics........ and maybe with the new camera, if i am so lucky. :D


and i am so grateful to all the people who posted and gave me feedback for this subject i have learnt so much, from such a stupid beetle type question and it seems i have also helped other's in the same mode of thought, so a shopping we will go!!!

:D
thanxs heaps.

beetle

Elephant
08-03-2004, 11:11 PM
&gt; I have read this last post from you Elephant quite a
&gt; few times and still uncertain what you mean about
&gt; Goddie doing well ??? in talking with me!
Godfather posting to anyone is what I mean. I respect the opinion given from Him/Her as I have to be politically correct here. After all. What sex is a Beetle or Elephant? Don't answer that!!
&gt; LOL
&gt; is it his English simple language he speaks for me?
&gt; or am i just thick and he is talking gobbledegook???
I think Godfather has well thought out answers to posts here on PressF1 regardless of whom Godfather is answering whereas I am a little inclined to ramble and hijack threads.

&gt; i appreciate all the help and ideas every one has
&gt; passed on and hope no one takes offence if i didnt
&gt; seem to pick their camera they posted about or even
&gt; their brand, and if i happen to pick a lemon you
&gt; have rightful prividges to say i told you :p
&gt; thanxs all.

I hope no person does that. As you know I sent you an Email explaining a few things but I am very aware that my wants, needs, budget etc may be different to yours.

Thanks for posting the thread here as you and others helped me to coalesce my thoughts on this matter.

I haven't yet made up my mind either but in my case there is no hurry. :-)

I'm serious enough to go looking in Napier soon though.

beetle
09-03-2004, 07:41 PM
Oh i know this one......

a beetle can be both sex's not that i am......... have enough trouble being wht i am let alone what else i could be????? ?:|


and sorry elephant thank your lucky stars you are male, cos if you were female , you would pregnant for 3 years, and lucky if before the baby elephant calf was a year old youd be preg again..... :D just some helpful drivel for ya.

and i havent had another chance to go shopping again, but have still been looking on the net, and looking at all incoming add's (junk mail) but have not found anything else that i think has what i want on it. so may be the fuji after alll.

good luck with the camera hunt, and thanxs for the email,

best of luck to anyone looking for a new or another camera, not as easy as i first thought this buying idea.

thanxs all
beetle

Elephant
11-03-2004, 01:49 AM
> Oh i know this one......
>
> a beetle can be both sex's not that i am.........
> have enough trouble being wht i am let alone what
> else i could be????? ?:|

Makes two of us then doesn't it?
>
> and sorry elephant thank your lucky stars you are
> male, cos if you were female , you would pregnant for
> 3 years, and lucky if before the baby elephant calf
> was a year old youd be preg again..... :D just some
> helpful drivel for ya.

That's helpful too. I'm very pleased I'm just a Male ( Rogue ) Elephant!

> and i havent had another chance to go shopping again,
> but have still been looking on the net, and looking
> at all incoming add's (junk mail) but have not found
> anything else that i think has what i want on it. so
> may be the fuji after alll.
>
> good luck with the camera hunt, and thanxs for the
> email,

Well I bought a camera today as it happens. In my case I could afford around $2000. I was at one stage considering three models. Canon Powershot Pro1, Sony F828 and both these had 8 Megapixels and 7X Optical zoom. The other one I looked at was the Panasonic FZ10 with 4 Megapixels but better zoom and a price tag of around $1400. After reading the whole thread again before I left Tokoroa for Napier I took due note of what people have said here regarding the Megapixel bit.

I had conversed over PressF1 and via Email with Dipstick01 and was invited to go to Napier and go try the cameras. I was hesitant as the price mentioned in the first place put me off just a bit. I knew I could get the Sony F828 for $1750 + GST where I buy lots of computer gear which of course comes to $1968.75 and this Guy in Hamilton I trust.

I had mentioned in this thread that I would not feel happy about going to Napier and playing with cameras and then not buying there but was invited to do so anyway.

So today I went to Napier and took my 2.1 Megapixel camera with me. This camera has no Optical zoom but I have done sort of OK with it and I know this camera. Between Taupo and Napier I stopped and took a series of images with the camera and visited Dipstick01 at Duckworths Retravision in Napier. He phoned me as I was driving out of Tokoroa on my Mobile and said he would have the two cameras charged and ready for me to look at. They were both ready when I walked into the shop about 2.00 pm. My Wife and I had a wee play.

Now dipstick01 went to the trouble to explain to me what I was getting extra for the price difference between the Sony F828 and the Panasonic FZ10. Pictures were taken and downloaded to a computer on the premises and I was able to see the images.

My Wife and I walked out of the shop and I told Dipstick that we will get some money soon and be back in a week or two. He probably thought that he has seen the last of us but I don't know that for a fact.

OK... Long post... I found that the FZ10 is a very good camera. Far lighter in weight than the F828 and is still feature rich. The FZ10 was recommended to me by the local Camera Club expert whom has chucked out some very expensive SLR cameras in favour of Digital.

What did I buy??? You guessed it. The Sony F828.

I found Dipstick01 knew what he was talking about and wasn't pushy. He had a professional attitude and I never felt pressured to buy. He went to the trouble to set this lot up for me not knowing when I was coming or even if I would.

So.... On the way home with my new Sony F828 I had to try it out didn't I? Parked where I took the original images with my 2.1 Megapixel camera and took some more shots. Comparing the two side by side I am more than happy with my choice.

But then I *would* say that wouldn't I?
> best of luck to anyone looking for a new or another
> camera, not as easy as i first thought this buying
> idea.
>
> thanxs all
> beetle

Elephant
11-03-2004, 01:59 AM
Thanks for your service and thanks for phoning me on the way out to tell me the Sun is brighter now. I picked up my sunglasses I left on your desk. So much for remembering!! :-)

metla
11-03-2004, 02:28 AM
Any chance someone could upload a landscape shot taken at the highest settings by one of these super duper mutli-megapixel cameras.

**Disclaimer**

This is a genuine request,made because i am interested in seeing the quality,Not so i can mock anyones purchase.

Honest.

I have camera envy.

Elephant
11-03-2004, 02:54 AM
> Any chance someone could upload a landscape shot
> taken at the highest settings by one of these super
> duper mutli-megapixel cameras.
Yes I can. Where would you like me to upload it to? I hesitate to use Sals' site as I don't want to use the Web space. If Sal gives me permission then I will consider doing so.

I now have two Digital cameras. 2.1 Megapixels and NO zoom and 8.0 Megapixels and 7X zoom.

Bear in mind that I only got the 8Meg camera today and have to change the way I do things. I do have two photos today that I took of a landscape and if you want these uploaded then this is fine by me. Bear in mind though that on the way back from Napier I took some photos with the new camera and was learning how to use it. I did use some Optical zoom with the new one but not on the highest setting.
>
> **Disclaimer**
>
> This is a genuine request,made because i am
> interested in seeing the quality,Not so i can mock
> anyones purchase.

Fair enough. Seeing as this is a genuine request I will await your answer as to where Images can be uploaded.

What settings would you like each camera set at?
>
> Honest.
>
> I have camera envy.

dipstick01
11-03-2004, 06:58 AM
It was a pleasure meeting you and Mrs Elelphant. You are more than welcome anytime you are passing through Hawkes Bay. It is always nice to put faces to names from online and I'm just glad I was able to help.

I seriously do not mind people coming to the shop and "playing" with the gear as I think thats still one of the best ways to find out if its what you want to purchase or not.

That goes for anyone here also. If we have it in stock and you want to try it out then give me a yell and you are more than welcome, and no you don't have to buy it from me or anything like that either.

Susan B
11-03-2004, 09:55 AM
What a lovely story Elephant, thank you for sharing it with us. It is nice to hear that it had such a happy result for both you and Dipstick. :-)

I have to ask though, why did you finally go with the Sony instead of the Panasonic? Was it for the extra megapixels? The ending was a bit like one of those movies that has an unexpected twist at the end - very crafty! :D

I would be interested in seeing your pics as well but would imagine the file size to be huge at full settings. You could sign up for a free email account and webpage with Orcon to load them on but you will be limited to 10MB of space. That ought to be enough for a handful of pics though.

beetle
11-03-2004, 08:03 PM
ok thanxs all for the input and Elephant so pleased in a way i helped you.....
by starting this thread.....

we have still not bit the bullet yet but are seriously thinking of getting the bigger Fuji, so it will not date so fast if you get my meaning? i dont want to replace this item any faster than i absolutely have to.....

but will keep you updated to when and if i get what.....

little did i know what my questions would evoke,
but i am pleased i helped not just myself.

beetle

beetle
11-03-2004, 09:47 PM
Hi ya me again.

i have been doing some more searching but have not found any thing else yet camera wise, but have also been looking for places that sell camera's here in Wanganui...... but not found many yet.

looking local mainly before looking at online shops so far.

any body help me?

we have a retovision here, been in it once but cannot remember if had camera's ..... Dipstick..do all retrovisions stock all products??? eg camera's?


this was supposed to be easier than beating the feet option..... but its not...
any sugestions welcome...

beetle

Elephant
11-03-2004, 10:00 PM
Well I went with the Panasonic mostly for the extra Magapixels but there were other factors as well. The fact that I can tilt the lense to suit what I shoot. Infrared picture at night. Manual zoom. Being able to use the IBM Microdrive for storage. Better colour CCD. Carl Ziess lense as opposed to Leica lense. Better feel of the camera. Really good solid body.

Added to that I just may have wanted to do something with the Panasonic and found that it won't cut it.

Please don't think that I have anything against the Panasonic FZ10. This is definitely a very good camera and has the advantage of being somewhat cheaper than my choice.

There is a budget issue too. This will almost definitely be the last digital camera I buy in my lifetime and I felt that the Sony was the choice for me as I don't want to be making the same choices two or three years down the track.

The Sony is what you might call a Semi-professional camera and I researched long before going into the store and buying.

Please note that Metla is the only person before your post who wanted to look at pictures and I have put the ball back in his court.

I have web space I could upload pictures to but feel that these images belong elsewhere. More particularly so that people from PressF1 have access in the event they are going through the similar choices I had to make.

In our local computer club we have Members who have several different varieties of digital cameras. Maybe I can get a picture from each camera from each person framed across the Park we are next to and upload the lot with description of make - model and settings. Our next meeting is April 3rd 2004. Bear in mind that I live in a reasonably small community so I know for a fact you won't get pics from every brand and model.

dipstick01
11-03-2004, 10:35 PM
hey ya Beetle, no sadly not every Retravision stocks everything as we are all independant stores operating under the Retravision buying group however most stores should stock a fairly good range of cameras. Give them a tinkle and ask, I'm sure they will be more than happy for you to come in and try the different ones they have.

Yeah the one problem you can have with the internet is information overload, If you are not looking for a semi pro camera like elephant then I suggest easing the load a bit by eliminating the high end cameras and stick with the models that are around the price you want to pay.

One thing I haven't mentioned yet in any of my posts is the accessories available in the Sony range. If you are planning on using the camera hunting/fishing or outdoors in all conditions then Sony do have a very nice case for their most popular models. Its high impact plastic and is waterproof to 40 metres.

Think long and hard about how you want to use the camera and then how you actually use one now and that will give you an idea of the level you want to go to.

I am also looking at a camera now and however much I would love the same camera as elephant got it is a bit beyond our budget so I am looking at either the Canon A80 or the Sony DSCP10. I'm leaning towards the DSCP10 at the mo for the case and the extra megapixel and yes I have used many many different cameras but with the basic zoom etc on the lower models I need all the info I can get in my pictures so I can edit and adjust to my hearts content. Mind you in saying that the Sony DSCP717 will be dropping in price now too.... nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
lol

Susan B
11-03-2004, 10:49 PM
Thanks for that info Elephant. It sounds like you got just the right camera for your needs and it should indeed last you a long time. :-)

Don't worry about going to all that trouble to upload pics just for me, I only put my 2c worth in because Metla mentioned it first. If he still wishes to see your pics I will have a look also, otherwise there is no need to go to any trouble.

beetle
12-03-2004, 08:30 PM
Oh ok so when i get a chance i should ring them then.....

at this stage there is no option or availability to go out of town in the forseeable future, oh though i wish...... i would love just to be able to go to even Palmy north as that will open a new range but its not to be.

we may have to stick with the Harvey Norman in the long run as it is local and if i Gasp! have a problem i want to be able to go locally and blast their ears off..... no not really but would like it to be somewhere local i can pop in to or ring easily to keep on their toes so to speak.................... not that i will have any problems................ :D
yeah well thats right it beetle we are talking about, insurance is all paid up,

thanxs otherwise for your help dipstick,
does that mean retrovision may not stock the fuji either even if it does have cameras???? must reread the posts i think you said that already????


i really want to go shopping.........

work comes first again.

beetle

Elephant
13-03-2004, 11:52 PM
> Any chance someone could upload a landscape shot
> taken at the highest settings by one of these super
> duper mutli-megapixel cameras.
>
> **Disclaimer**
>
> This is a genuine request,made because i am
> interested in seeing the quality,Not so i can mock
> anyones purchase.
>
> Honest.
>
> I have camera envy.

This is obviously a troll isn't it?

Once again where do you want images uploaded?

metla
14-03-2004, 12:11 AM
No ele,it wasn't a troll.and i must say i tire of your game.

The request wasn't made directly at you,it was a general request asking if someone had the means and 5 seconds to do it,i asked out of pure interest in the quality difference.

You obviously don't have the means,so ignore the request,don't use it as an excuse to lay conditions down on me then post later that im trolling.

If its easier for you lets just agree to ignore each others posts completely,i have neither the time nor the drive to indulge in whatever it is your trying to acheive.

dipstick01
14-03-2004, 08:46 AM
I have some pictures I can upload for you metla. The main problem is in size though as they are all between 2 and 4 mb each.
I can upload some from various cameras including
sony
dscp717
dscf828
dscp10
dscp32

panasonic
dmfz10
dmclc43

canon s40

All pictures taken by me in various locations and obviously NOT promo shots taken under perfect lighting etc as seen in some shops

Give me an address to upload em to and they are all yours.

Scouse
14-03-2004, 09:10 AM
Troll ? This is obviously a troll isn't it? I thought a troll was a supernatural dwarf or giant that lived in caves in Scandinavia?

beetle
14-03-2004, 05:02 PM
Sigh.....

Oh well all i can say is Fight ya buggers i really hate peace...:p



dipstick yes i would like to see some pics to, but alas i have no place to upload them either........ hopefully something will turn up to help the situation.

beetle

Winston001
14-03-2004, 07:41 PM
Ele, Ele, Ele! Take some big deep pachydermous breaths. You are a fine fellow - just a touch sensitive. Nobody indulges in deliberate nastiness on PF1. They don't last long if they try. Just differences of opinion. Read each post as tongue in cheek.

Yes, there is a big Troll in Wanganui - no not the one in the motel :D - but he's user friendly

and helpful.

I enjoy your humour. Keep it up.

beetle
15-03-2004, 05:47 PM
Hi all,

this is a sorta progress report,

i have rung 4 places so far (2 to go on my list ) and found 3 absolutly useless they didnt know what i was talking about...... SLR Digital cameras..... i said....and they go what?

but they all stock digital cameras they said mainly, sony and canon and panasonic.

but surprise the guy at Dimocks Retrevision could talk about this that and the other of camera's....very helpful amazingly so....

so am no furthor ahead as the others dont have anything like a digital slr in stock they think....:D

but one thing one of them said was, all digital cameras can add lense's on? is this correct????
my understanding is only SLR type camera's come with the options of lens extra's....please explain if i am wrong somebody????


so i will keep looking, also have found a herald paper and found the cam i like another $300 off what i am looking at price wise so we begining to like idea of online shopping....:D


so more useless info here,

beetle

metla
15-03-2004, 07:07 PM
Dimocks wanganui are generally pretty good,i have purchased furniture though them,me brther bought a stereo and video camera round xmas time.

Generlly their prices are a fair bit cheaper then harvey nomans.The items my bro bought were each $200 more expensive at hardlel normals,

But the guy was incorrect,you can't put lenses on all digital cameras.

beetle
15-03-2004, 08:34 PM
No it wasnt from Dimocks that said that..... Farmers said it, LOL but the lady who answered the phone had to ask what SLR was..... "what make is that?" she asks.....
then she asked the guy standing next to her obviously and he said all digital cameras can take extra lenses....
when i explained they have a real camera look not the match box toy look...:D she still didnt get it, like a real camera....i said..... nup still no go.... doesnt matter i said ill look on the net......

nothing personal about this lady but if she is in the electronics area she needs to learn some more about these things.....

So all round dimocks was better, he said he could find me a price on almost any brand id like, but they usually only have instore, sony and panasonic, and i think canon as well. at that point i hadnt rung any of the others, so will try the guy again and see what comes of it i guess.

he gave me the low down on a camera out of my price range (i didnt give him a make or figure to go with, and it sounds a lot like the one Elephant has bought.....

so when i get time may see if he can give me a price on either of the fuji cams i like, fuji finepix S5000 or the S7000

would be interesting..... Dipstick ? can this actually happen???
or is he pulling my leg on this one?

i have been in to Dimocks before and found them very good, they seem to know there info very well.

beetle

dipstick01
15-03-2004, 08:55 PM
Ok when they were talking about other lenses etc they were probably talking about the fact that cameras like the DSCP10 has an attachment (for extra $$) that will take wide angle lenses etc . This is probably NOT like what you are thinking with the SLR cameras and interchangable lenses. check out www.sony.com or ask for a "pulse" magazine......which is free

Dimocks have quite a good reputation within the Retravision group so don't be ashamed or shy of asking for info.

Dimocks do actually mainly stock Sony and Panasonic with some Canon also. Don't be surprised if they won't get another brand into stock with out $$ up front but then that would be true from any shop I believe lol.

Yes the DSCF828 is still a damn nice camera and is the one Elephant got.....and still the one I LOVE personally, yes the $2300 price tag does put most people off but if you want a nice camera without that price tag then also look at the Panasonic DMZF10...... but then I repeat what was discussed before.....apologies but had a product knowledge evening with free food and beer before posting this so WAHOOOOOOOOO *hic*
extended warranties not cameras.
Anyway talk to the guys at Dimocks and grab the info you want. Good salespeople aren't shy about giving advice/opinions so just ask, make it clear you are just after info at the mo and they will be more than hppy to help.

robo
16-03-2004, 09:03 AM
Susan
:8}

Beetle, I spotted this well late in the piece, and you probably won't notice my response and I may repeat others further down, but:

standard AA or AAA batteries are a bonus
Optical zoom never digital (as already said)
memory card type can be important, the one you get is never enough, you'll have to buy a bigger one.
I like fast shutter speed for action shots (1/1000th if possible, some are quite slow).

Spend less and have money spare to buy another one later with the difference and have one each!

robo.

beetle
16-03-2004, 05:30 PM
Robo.
what do you mean spend less and have one each? one of each type or one for each of us? as Hubby is the one i take photos of.....

i dont want to buy something i need to replace in a hurry, this is the one and only for a long time.
i have done that sort of thing before and ended up with 4 camera's that way, which i am reluctant to ged rid of any.......:|

i want what is the best for what i can afford, not just for now...... i want one i can add lenses to if i want, i want lots of good usable features but nothing over the top i wont use, i dont do much flash photography any more, and i now no longer develop and print my own stuff, (cheaper elsewhere)
but i want lots of memory's (photos) and ways to keep on the puter, i want instant pics to email to my SIL overseas.....

i have decided on the fuji probably but the availability of me getting it is remote at mo as working on a 3 week block, and no spare time to run off to the shop to organise anything soon...... and easter is coming!

my schedule went from bad to OMG impossible at mo, and Patience is not my virtue......

thanxs Robo and all others who care enough to help,

still going to find this Book and read it, hopefully get to the library soon...

beetle

Bazza
16-03-2004, 08:33 PM
The Fuji S5000 & S7000 are good choices Beetle. Maybe I am biased as I have the Fuji S602 like GF.

They are not strictly a DSLR, but similar in size & style.

Like you, I have used film SLR's for years, & can understand you may think you need interchangeable lenses. These Fuji's camera lenses are not interchangeable, but the range of the optical zoom in these & other brands, probably far exceeds the lenses you have used. For example:

The S5000 has 10x optical zoom = 37 to 370mm in an equivalent 35mm lens.
The S7000 has 6x optical zoom = 35 to 210mm in an equivalent 35mm lens.

The person who said "all cameras can use add on lenses" was incorrect. Some can. Some can't, but these Fuji's can. Optional lens adapters can be fitted to increase the wide angle or tele range.

Robo is correct in saying the AA batteries are a bonus. The camera takes 4, & with several sets of modern high capacity rechargeable NiMH AA's, the camera keeps on going & going.

Goodluck for finding a local supplier, but if not, a look at "Price Spy" may help in finding best prices & an online supplier.

robo
16-03-2004, 10:15 PM
I've got s602 and am very happy, two memory card slots rock. It is a bit slow to focus but that's my only real complaint. Took many shots in the book on one.
I like the s5 and 7000s. I think they have the dual sensor for low and high light.
I was suggesting two cameras, eventually, Beetle. But I know what you mean. About to get one for my wife and suspect I will use it more than her, even though it will be a girly handbag sized jobbie.
robo.

beetle
16-03-2004, 10:38 PM
Hi ya,

have two answers here 1 is i didnt say the fuji had interchangeable lenses, i said said add on lense's ......

not sure what you consider a SLR then either... obviously need this book to explain it huh?

but hubby wont be using the camera as far as im concerned, as he hasnt used the ones i have so far in all the years we been together unless it was work related? one off things that have cut off bits and stuff...no people thankfully.
and as far as taking pics it usually him or the kids im taking photos of in the last couple of years...... no dawn get up to go take river pics or sea pic for a long time now.

and how slow is slow to focus in your opinion?
i do a lot of sport action shots .....i need something pretty instant if need be, but usually have a habit of pre focusing the shot before needed (whatever moves into veiw / shot area).
just habit i guess.....
and in the last year all ive taken is building pics mainly > before and after shots.......so got bored...need some action to liven things up, but i have been doing a lot of scanning of other pics,
and cant wait to get a new cam and Easter to be here...


what size memory stick do you use then?
is it better to have one large one (256?) or two smaller ones??? (128?)


and must find this book......


thanxs for the help.

beetle

metla
17-03-2004, 01:39 AM
as far as small cameras are concerened,i just sat through an infomercial on this one

http://www.thane.com/html/products/variety/digitalcamera/digitalcamera.html


Pure comedy,they made a big deal out of the included usb cable,mentioning the cable alone may retail for 20 to 30 dollars(us dollars even)They took the worst photo's i could imagine then gushed over them with pure love,Then they showed off the software,so easy anybody could use,.....apart from the presenter that is,whose efforts were quickly edited out.

Then we got a shot of a model using a laptop while floating in a SWIMMING POOL on an inflatable chair.Don't try that at home kids,Anti-smacking laws won't help if you drop the laptop in the swimming pool.

Lmao.

so small it fits on your keyring.....

robo
17-03-2004, 07:42 AM
Action shots are a problem even on heavy duty SLR film cameras. I had a Nikon F801s and it was too slow. You have to pre-focus on where you think the action will be. Maybe use small aperture (large F stop) to help increase depth of focus (getting technical, sorry).
Bursts of shots on digital help you get action way better than film. The shutter delay is overcome with bursts as well, start shooting before you need it and keep going after.

As for memory, cough, um, well my camera has a 128Mb and a, I really need it, you know, honest, 512Mb, so it nearly has as much as my PC at 640Mb in total. Two slots mean that if I remove one to copy data and forget to put it back there is still one there (that happens a lot for me).
robo.

Steve_L
17-03-2004, 09:34 AM
Hello Beetle,

I now remember the place in AKL that has the best prices on Digcams - Etown, their website is etown.co.nz (probably www. as well). They are the ones that advertise at the bottom of the front page of the Herald, or the Weekender (Star Times?) newspaper.

Removable lenses: my Canon A70 has this feature. Look for a release button next to the lens. Ha ha - I enjoyed reading about the Farmers woman asking what brand SLR was, etc. Yep, most general shops (as opposed to camera only shops) will not know much at all about cameras except the price and case colour!

Have you investigated Fuji cameras? For the price they seem a good buy for what you want. Not sure if the lenses are removable, but as a user of 35mm SLRs (Nikon, Olympus) for the last several decades, I have to ask why you would want to use other lenses since you will get macro to 10 or 12 times optical. ??

Steve L

Susan B
17-03-2004, 09:38 AM
> Have you investigated Fuji cameras?

Ha, that one is a dead giveaway, Steve! Tut tut tut..... :p :D

<quote>
>>i have decided on the fuji probably
</quote>

:D :D

beetle
17-03-2004, 12:55 PM
LOL
:D

it seems people suffer from the not being able to read policy.... :p


i dont want removable lens but if the camera has it thats ok.....

i dont need a major flash on it either.

i also yes have looked extensively at Fuji.

the chances of me getting one this week seems slim,

the weekend maybe..... i live in hope....

beetle

beetle
17-03-2004, 12:58 PM
ok

i pre focus always, unless something unexpected pops out or rolls over necessatating a shot..... (jeeps / 4X4 )

large memory good, anything better than mine is fine.:D

still not sure on the time delay you experiencce on shutter speed but i will find out i guess. this happens with most cameras i beleive but some are worse than others...

thanxs
beetle

beetle
29-03-2004, 11:09 PM
Hello people,

I have my new toy!

i got the fujifilm S5000, and i got it from Auckland in the end.

and so far i am very happy with it.
at the moment it all seems to be what i want, no issues raised yet.

i have a uphill learning curve as Easter is racing towards me at a very fast rate and i have not much spare time to sit and play with the bloody thing.

any way i may get back to you after easter to give some info and feedback if you like. (on how bad i did or how good the camera is.:D )

spot ya

beetle

Elephant
30-03-2004, 12:36 AM
> Hello people,
>
> I have my new toy!
>
> i got the fujifilm S5000, and i got it from Auckland
> in the end.
Well it is nice to know you got the camera you wanted.
>
> and so far i am very happy with it.
> at the moment it all seems to be what i want, no
> issues raised yet.
>
> i have a uphill learning curve as Easter is racing
> towards me at a very fast rate and i have not much
> spare time to sit and play with the bloody thing.
I have not yet had the time to learn my one yet fully either.
:-)

> any way i may get back to you after easter to give
> some info and feedback if you like. (on how bad i did
> or how good the camera is.:D )
Once again with cameras:-
I am planning on putting up a web site where people can upload pics.
I don't want to denigrate Sals site at all as I know it is useful.

This will take a couple of Months but it will happen. The reason for the delay is that I will be moving house and will have other things to do. I am looking at buying 500 Megs of space.

beetle
30-03-2004, 05:57 PM
That would be great Elephant.

beetle

dipstick01
30-03-2004, 07:28 PM
Sorry but I couldn't resist this post to take it over the 100 post mark just cause....................................

Neil McC
30-03-2004, 10:59 PM
]:)

Steve_L
01-04-2004, 08:57 AM
Beetle, what did you pay for it, and what are the specs ?

I have been looking at the Fuji series and am impressed (although they are a bit too big for what I want now so will stick with my Canon a70 ).

Steve L

beetle
01-04-2004, 06:13 PM
hi ya

Um not sure exactly but for the camera alone $650.00 or there abouts,

battery charger, and new memory card, and camera bag and car charger came as a package deal with it, so i ended up still spending less than Harvey Norman had it advertised at for camera alone @ $999.00

so i saved about $300 - $400 i think. and still met by budget.

and i am very pleased with it, its all i want i just have to learn a few more of the bells and whistles (over time) and get it really cranking along.

well worth the wait.

Fujifilm Finepix S5000 3.1 mega pixel (6.2 mp video? recorded)
10x optical
2.2x digital

auto settings and manual settings,

and ? what else do you need to know?
easy to use, nice and light, and just what i like,


beetle

beetle
01-04-2004, 06:16 PM
PS i have started another Thread, which has a pic on it i took. it is more related to the downloading of what i have taken pic wise, major new territory for me.


http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=45804


beetle

beetle
06-05-2005, 01:25 PM
LOL ok post / thread bumped.


Has anyone found any new light / information to add to this post?

I see other bits of info come to light in another thread on camera's and am still a little perplexed as to the problems with parallel imports versus normal products.

Any one explain things a bit further than we already have on this thread?

apart from the warranty problem i had, where it had to go back to asia, i see no differences, or problems with the camera i have compared to if i had bought it from HN or DSE?

What is the big hang up?

and product / brand names are we stuck in a rut? do we have to have canon or kodak? over anything else?



Flames at the ready?
:D

luvs ya really.....:p



beetle