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Bugman
24-02-2004, 05:47 PM
Hi

I hate the channel logos on TV, variously described as Bugs. Dogs or Watermarks.

Sky, Prime and TV3 are the main culprits.

I'm looking for a tool that will allow me to obliterate them before they reach my TV / Video.

Pure Motion's EditStudio has a good knockout feature that does the job but does not deal with streaming video. I really want to capture the signal, get rid of the logo and send the clean signal to the TV.

Anybody know of anything ?

Cheers

Andy

Billy T
24-02-2004, 09:07 PM
Well, as I see it you have just three realistic choices here: :p

1) Use a low-tech paper sticker over the logos if they offend you that much.

2) Watch the programming, ignore the logos.

3) Get outside more, see the real world.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :|

revspecies116
24-02-2004, 10:03 PM
Excuse the OLD-bee ;)


Rev Species 116

PS Welcome to the board.
PPS I have no solution to your problem,
but stick around for digital TV using MPEG4
tech - will be easy to remove aberations.

Odin
25-02-2004, 12:52 AM
There is software to remove the logo after you have saved it to a harddrive, but I don't know of any that allows you to do it as you stream it.
The TV stations are going to have to do something about their logos as many people are finding that their 6000 to 10,000 or more Plasma Televisions are suffering from the old problem of Burn in, as the logo's stay in one place all the time, ESPN and CNN are amongst the worst and so even when the TV is turned off the logo is still visible.

Laura
25-02-2004, 06:42 AM
Logo visible even when the TV is turned off....?

I didn't think that was possible.

Please would someone who understands such electronics explain HOW to someone who finds the more she learns, the more she discovers she doesn't know.

(I need hardly say I'd like the easy version, please. And if there's no easy version, I can live without knowing this.....)

simonc
25-02-2004, 08:13 AM
Having worked in TV for a while, I have seen these "bugs / watermarks" come into existence.
These bugs are put on the signal as the last thing to leave the station to the transmitter. As yet I do not know a way to remove them, although if you used a DPM (digital picture manipulator) you could zoom the picture and move it until the bug is no longer visible. This is a rather expensive option.
Most of the bugs today are a light grey with transparent elements in them. As the bugs are only on during programme segments, which are at the most 8 minutes long on commercial stations, burn in is not really an issue. I have worked in stations where monitors have had bugs on them all the time. Burn in happens only after years of constant signals does burn in occur.

Laura, burn in can leave a ghostly image of the bug imprinted on the picture tube so that when the TV is turned off the image remains on the screen.

PS: I hate them too

paulw
25-02-2004, 09:15 AM
It's always interesting that the TV networks ignore the views who ***** and moan about these logos but they never put them on buring the ads. Why?? Because the aversisers ***** and moan and the networks take notice of them. Screw the viewer though..

Billy T
25-02-2004, 10:27 AM
Though the end result is the same, the mechanisms are different for CRTs and plasma screens. CRTs use an electron beam to excite phosphors, which then fluoresce to create light.

A static image will slowly burn the phosphor, creating a darkened area in the form of the average (static) image size and shape. You see old monochrome monitors in secondhand shops (and in some business premises still) that have the layout of the most commonly used screens imprinted on the phosphor. Sometimes you can even read the screen heading.

Plasma screens use technology the emits light under electrical stimulation rather than an electron beam. These screens have a finite life (in 1000's of hours) and if a group of pixels are constantly on they use up their life earlier and become darker. The logo will then show on other programming, especially light scenes, as a darkened area in the shape of the logo because of the reduced light output. It may also show when the screen is off if the pixels change colour slightly as they age.

LCDs do not seem to suffer from this effect as they simply control the transfer of luminance from a backlight through liquid crystal pixels that vary their light transmission to produce the image.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Chris Randal
25-02-2004, 11:16 AM
I quite like them - at least I know which channel I am watching.

They all seem to broadcast the same crap these days so we really only need one channel. ;\ ;\

Graham L
25-02-2004, 01:00 PM
"one channel"? How about none?

Jester
26-02-2004, 12:02 AM
> A static image will slowly burn the phosphor,
> creating a darkened area in the form of the average
> (static) image size and shape.

BT, I used to see this on old Philips and Pye sets with Teletext mods we rented to TAB's and pubs ... once we cleaned layers of smoke from them after a few years sitting on the shelves in the corner of the rooms. Ahh the good old days, lugging the b***dy things off and onto the shelves on your own while a room full of usually tiddly regulars yelled at you to "hurry up". No OSH back then.

J
:D

Laura
26-02-2004, 07:23 AM
Many thanks simonc and Billy T.

Now I understand.

Ya dun good....

Bugman
01-03-2004, 11:47 AM
Hi Simonc

As you've worked in the industry, any idea WHY the TV stations put these bugs on ?

Sky give answers like ' Oh you have to be reminded what channel you are watching because it is essential for you to know this and all you viewers are inherently forgetful and stupid people'.

I suspect it is more to do with their own (misguided) marketing policies and/or not allowing viewers to rip a movie on to a DVD and flogging copies off in the back bar of the local pub...

Also, do you know if it's theoretically possible for digital broadcasters to provide an option for a viewer to turn the pesky things off?

paulw
01-03-2004, 01:13 PM
"I suspect it is more to do with their own (misguided) marketing policies and/or not allowing viewers to rip a movie on to a DVD and flogging copies off in the back bar of the local pub..."

So they encourage you to pay per view without a logo and rip those to DVD . Clever marketing.

simonc
02-03-2004, 07:26 AM
Bugman,

No idea why, the common answer is the one SKY gave you. I belive the idea came from the states (although why we have to copy it here I have no idea) where you can have 200 or so channels on one cable service and your TV guide runs out at 6 channels.
When these bugs first appeared there was no way to rip movies to DVD and the only way to copy was VHS (pssst, wanna buy a shoddy quality copy of a 4 year old movie on an outmoded medium????)
I do not think there will be a way to turn off these bugs as it is a way of getting the station logo into the public arena without having to pay for a billboard etc. Nothing like free advertising....
Even the digital transmission of the Bathurst Race last year had them on to advertise you were watching a channel that did digital transmission...that advertising thing again.
Bugs are here to stay....
Although I have noticed that they are becoming more transparent and a bit easier to live with than the first attempts....

Laura
02-03-2004, 08:16 AM
Another reason for a logo is to identify the channel in cases where items are rebroadcast by another source.

For instance, when TVNZ shows news clips from overseas, you can see which channel they originated from...and in some cases (particularly in world trouble spots) it gives the viewer clues on interpreting information in that item.

It's also rather nice to see a NZ channel's logo on a Pacific-related item on BBC World, rather than everyone assuming it came from big brother Australia. (As a former news journalist, I'm biased here, of course)

In fact, most people who aren't involved in copying from TV find the logos quite useful.

paulw
09-03-2004, 08:50 PM
Found this link if it's any good to you.

http://www.republika.pl/voidon/virtualdub/ladocs301/logoaway.html