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drcspy
08-02-2004, 05:26 PM
I'm getting VERY grumpy with xtra... recently they seem to have downgraded their 'service' so that I often have trouble connecting at more than 40Kbs .....GRRR......anyway I rang them waited about 15 mins on the phone (wow fast for once lol) and the lady tried to tell me that 40 was a 'REALLY GOOD SPEED'.....

Even after I said "I'm a tech and i work on a lot of computers and that is not right 40 is a poor speed' she tried to tell me twice more that 40 was a 'really good speed'........grrrrrr at this point I said 'you are talkign crap' and hung up.......

well I KNOW without a doubt that if I dialled up on my father'n'laws clear account right now I'd bet I'll get 50 or over...

so as you may imagine I am thinking very seriously of dumpin xtra cause I think they're downgrading their dial up so that folks will want to sign up for their rippoff jetstream ........anyway... what I'd like you nice folks to tell me is
1 What ISP do you use
2 What general speed do you get
3 How reliable are they ?

Jamesioitron
08-02-2004, 05:31 PM
ooh i use

* clearnet
*48 kb/s
*You get on all the time, except for when you need it most.
e.g 3oc in the morning.
e.g when you need to send important work info.


e.g when you cus at the clearnet tec's and they suspend you for a day. lol just kidding.

Megaman
08-02-2004, 05:32 PM
i use clear net flat rate
$24 a month
usually 50.6-52kbits per second, however downloads are abnormally fast, usually 60kibts per second
however they do have a fair bit of down time, and someimes it connects @ 33.6kbits per second, however this is easilly fixed by connecting again

Jamesioitron
08-02-2004, 05:32 PM
+ they rely on an australia line thingy so they cant fix things that imediately come up in Nz. they have to ring or something.


words cannot describe the foulness of what i want to say to the clearnet clerks.

tweak\'e
08-02-2004, 05:38 PM
well i've yet to find ANY difference between isp's. the only problems i get with isp's is usually you can't connect.

slow modem speed is more than often due to phone lines rather than isp. also what is your download speed (before and after) as line connect speed dosn't mean a whole lot.

godfather
08-02-2004, 05:39 PM
Use data throughput as a measure, not connect speed.

A fast connect speed may require many corrupt packets to be re-sent.

A slightly slower one may give a faster end result.

Jamesioitron
08-02-2004, 05:40 PM
bah... slingshot 3 times faster than normal dial-up...

YOU CAN ONLY GET SOOO MUCH

who are they comparing to.

heh probally clearnet.

false advertising...

r they talking about broadband??

agent
08-02-2004, 05:54 PM
> someimes it connects @ 33.6kbits per second, however this is easilly fixed by connecting again

Completely unnecessary; the speed that your computer reports it is connected at when you establish a connection is not kept for the entire duration of the connection, it fluctuates (probably all over the place), hence one (note: one - not the only reason, of course) of the reasons why download/upload speeds fluctuate.

However, Windows is incapable of showing a realtime speed, and so it shows what the speed was when you first connected.

heni72847
08-02-2004, 08:50 PM
yes it is true it shows the speed it connects..
but when it connects at 33k it seem to be stuck there as the highest speed it will go...
which is not nice...


i also experience with a werid problem from xtra
sometimes it connects at 50k+ and d/l goes nicely.. but then suddenly the d/l speed drops and max at 30k speed.. which is weird..
it works.. then it doesn't..

hsv-b0y
08-02-2004, 09:32 PM
this might sound a little weried but try unpluging the the cord out of the back of the phone, when i first got my new computer all i could get it to do was about 28 - 33 and it was pssing me off because i thought they gave me a crap modem, but i unpluged it and now i get 46.6 or 48kbps constantly, Im on the unlimited dialup plan.

whiskeytangofoxtrot
08-02-2004, 11:52 PM
> Even after I said "I'm a tech and i work on a lot of
> computers and that is not right 40 is a poor speed'
> she tried to tell me twice more that 40 was a 'really
> good speed'........grrrrrr at this point I said 'you
> are talkign crap' and hung up.......

Ok, so lets get this straight here... you are supposedly a "tech" yet you were calling an ISP helpdesk because your modem connect speed is "only 40" which is a "poor speed."

So obviously you are quite a competent tech, seeing as you clearly have no grasp of how basic dial-up internet access works, how to troubleshoot a dial-up connection, what the relevant numbers actually infer, just to name a few.

Don't suppose you're one of the guys that charges a couple of hundred bucks to run someones recovery CD's by chance?

Well at least you're kind enough to put a photo on your web-site so if I am pointing people to a "tech" in your area I know who not to send them to.

aNtzy
09-02-2004, 12:19 AM
> > Even after I said "I'm a tech and i work on a lot
> of
> > computers and that is not right 40 is a poor
> speed'
> > she tried to tell me twice more that 40 was a
> 'really
> > good speed'........grrrrrr at this point I said
> 'you
> > are talkign crap' and hung up.......
>
> Ok, so lets get this straight here... you are
> supposedly a "tech" yet you were calling an ISP
> helpdesk because your modem connect speed is "only
> 40" which is a "poor speed."
>
> So obviously you are quite a competent tech, seeing
> as you clearly have no grasp of how basic dial-up
> internet access works, how to troubleshoot a dial-up
> connection, what the relevant numbers actually infer,
> just to name a few.
>
> Don't suppose you're one of the guys that charges a
> couple of hundred bucks to run someones recovery CD's
> by chance?
>
> Well at least you're kind enough to put a photo on
> your web-site so if I am pointing people to a "tech"
> in your area I know who not to send them to.


I don't think threats are called for, do you? Nor do I believe he asked to be judged. What did one of the moderators have to say ...hmmm ... if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all!

aNtzy.

whiskeytangofoxtrot
09-02-2004, 12:21 AM
> grrrrrr at this point I said 'you
> are talkign crap' and hung up.......

Oh and a few more things:

1. Don't treat people on the other end of the phone like crap. They are only doing their job, they don't write policy, they help plebs like yourself. Chances are they are more qualified, more skilled, and doing more with their lives than you ever will.

I personally work on an (un-named) helpdesk to pay for my study, doing that job I am a former consultant of a major NZ university so chances are I've forgotten more about IT than you'll ever know, further to that I'm working there fulltime whilst I complete a medical degree - just think before you shoot your mouth off and treat them poorly.

2. She is correct, 40 _is_ a good connection speed realistically when takein into account the quality of NZ phone lines. 56kbps is a theoretical maximum based on perfect conditions, is just doesn't happen. Plug in a cheap cordless phone, fax machine, monitored alarm the quality drops. Throw a few electric fences, corroded connectors, software modems, and bad drivers into the mix and you're already looking at the slippery slope to a connection measured in baud rather than bps.

3. Experiences with ISP's are subjective. Take your rant with Xtra for example - if someone asked you about Xtra you'd trash them from here to the Arctic and back, ask 250,000 other people and they'd probably be really happy.

4. An ISP is hardly going to encourage broadband take up in a huge way - broadband is a lot more expensive to provide and maintain, and they certainly wouldn't attempt it by supposedly "degrading" existing services as people would move away - simple business sense.

I'm kinda getting bored with this now so I think I'll leave you to chew over that.

Ciao.

whiskeytangofoxtrot
09-02-2004, 12:26 AM
> I don't think threats are called for, do you? Nor do
> I believe he asked to be judged. What did one of the
> moderators have to say ...hmmm ... if you can't say
> anything nice, don't say anything at all!
>
> aNtzy.

Thanks for the feedback, I didn't make threats at all, merely laid out my perception of his skill as a "technician"

If he needs to post an entry level query here, after treating a helpdesker like crap, what right does he have to throw around names like "tech"

It's people who claim "tech" status with no knowledge that give the computer industry a bad name.

metla
09-02-2004, 12:26 AM
Chew on what?

Youve done nothing but make a personal attack and then say don't blame the isp.

If quality is degrading and you can connect to another isp from the same location at a better speed then the isp is definitly the people to ring and complain to.

As for me,im not even slightly impressed you work on a helpdesk.

whiskeytangofoxtrot
09-02-2004, 12:36 AM
> Chew on what?
>
> Youve done nothing but make a personal attack and
> then say don't blame the isp.
>
> If quality is degrading and you can connect to
> another isp from the same location at a better speed
> then the isp is definitly the people to ring and
> complain to.
>
> As for me,im not even slightly impressed you work on
> a helpdesk.

This wasn't an attempt to impress you or anyone. The posting he has made is completely uninformed and creates a very dubious picture of a "tech"

I'm not sure how good your networking knowledge is, but for pretty much every ISP in New Zealand, the majority of their coverage is actually provided by Telecom.

Outside of the main centres, most ISP's connect via IPNet which is a Telecom service, so it doesn't matter whether you're with Xtra, Paradise, Slingshot, Net4U (RIP), or any other ISP - outside of the main city centres you'll connect to the same kit regardless.

Calling an ISP frontline helpdesker and treating them like crap isn't going to resolve anything.

If quality is degrading, chances are it is not the ISP that has changed something. ISP's don't go along and just randomly reimplement everything for the hell of it. It's more likely to be a local (exchange) problem, or even more likely something inside the home causing it.

Although I must admit I am kind of disappointed I didn't impress you, I guess my life has no meaning now.

drcspy
09-02-2004, 07:30 AM
'If quality is degrading, chances are it is not the ISP that has changed something. ISP's don't go along and just randomly reimplement everything for the hell of it. It's more likely to be a local (exchange) problem, or even more likely something inside the home causing it.'

yeh right...........possible indeed. - however when I dial up using a different account witha differenet isp on the same puter same house etc etc then it shows a connection of 52 jsut seconds after my xtra connection starts playing up on me and giveing me poor speed,..............

also.........thanks for the attitude...........NOT

ACTUALLY the person on the tech desk at xtra had attitude.........BEFORE i said she was talkign crap
and I AM a tech and I have a damn good number of very very happy folks who like what I do for them ............cause I do it well and i dont charge em a fortune

my connection was regularly showing as 52 for mnths.........then it dropped to 49 ............then it dropped recently to 45..............now its dropped to 40.............however if I change isp/dialup accounts........then it comes back up to 52 now ....................you tell me mr man with all the knowledge who likes to make judgement's on my tech ablilty ............what's goin on .........

of course I'll call the isp helpdesk........not expecting any help of course with this issue.........but certainly to ***** about it............what would you do

drcspy
09-02-2004, 07:35 AM
'So obviously you are quite a competent tech, seeing as you clearly have no grasp of how basic dial-up internet access works, how to troubleshoot a dial-up connection, what the relevant numbers actually infer, just to name a few'...............

REALLY ?????????????????????????
you must be an amazing fellow to infer all that from my little question

and as for

'Well at least you're kind enough to put a photo on your web-site so if I am pointing people to a "tech" in your area I know who not to send them to'

thanks for NOTHING.....................

now why dont I point yo in the direction of all the posts I have made 'here' for example.............also have a look here......... and then come back and tell me I'm a useless tech you arrogant &(*()&$%^$

http://www.experts-exchange.com/M_449745.html

drcspy
09-02-2004, 07:49 AM
oh and btw............i'm self employed ......do you realise the ramifications of that ?......

you are prepared to take bread off my table and my dependants because of a snap judgement you have made

it's soooooo easy to be employed by someone else and NOT easy to be successfully self employed at all...... the simplicity of that is that people will not call you back again and again (as they do for me) if you dont do a good job !!!

drcspy
09-02-2004, 07:50 AM
'As for me,im not even slightly impressed you work on a helpdesk'

EXACTLY metla ..............

drcspy
09-02-2004, 07:56 AM
ok lets take these points one at a time

'Plug in a cheap cordless phone, fax machine, monitored alarm the quality drops.
Throw a few electric fences, corroded connectors, software modems, and bad
drivers into the mix and you're already looking at the slippery slope to a connection
measured in baud rather than bps'

I agree with all of them BUT.................i run two phone lines and one is a dedicated net connection with nothing else on it............and .......as someone else says........if it connects at x speed with one isp then a better speed with another isp ...........well .......it seems obvious that the first isp is giveing you a poor connection ....................


'3. Experiences with ISP's are subjective. Take your rant with Xtra for example -
if someone asked you about Xtra you'd trash them from here to the Arctic and back,
ask 250,000 other people and they'd probably be really happy'

actually untill the speed started dropping recently I have been quite fine with xtra however I DO work on a LOT of other computers and LOTS of them have much faster apparent connection speeds


'4. An ISP is hardly going to encourage broadband take up in a huge way - broadband
is a lot more expensive to provide and maintain, and they certainly wouldn't attempt
it by supposedly "degrading" existing services as people would move away - simple
business sense'

Shows how much you know about business.............of COURSE the isp is going to encourage broadband they make more money on it .............WHY would they be advertising 'JETSTREAM' all over the place if they are not tryign to encourage it ?>................geez........your logical analysis skills seem to be lacking a bit here...........
'

MrBeef
09-02-2004, 08:12 AM
Apart from all the ramblings.

What about you trying your internet on your OTHER phone line instead of the dedicated internet phone line, or better yet take your computer to a mates place to test it out.f

You'll probably find that its you're location

drcspy
09-02-2004, 08:24 AM
thanks MrBeef but I still say.............how come I can connect on xtra at a crap speed and then dial up seconds later on another isp and get a good speed..........that tends to suggest to me that it's not the phone line/location/ whatever .......it says to me it's the isp......

roofus
09-02-2004, 06:12 PM
Sorry drcspy if you are going to make a statement that you are a tech and then ask an entry level question as such then you've got to be prepared that someone will have a go at you, especially when you were rude to a help desk.

The reason you are connecting at two different speeds to two differnt ISP's is simple

Lets say xtra terminates its exchange at point A
and TelstraClear terminates its exchange at point B

Now as a tech you will know that you can only connect at the top speed of the slowest link between your pc and point A or B. In your case the link between you and Telstraclear is of better quality then between you and xtra. Who's problems this.......... well most likely Telecom since they own the lines. However its not going to be xtras fault and they won't have been purposefully degrading there performance. I'm sure a few xtra users could back me up on this one.

agent
09-02-2004, 06:14 PM
Certainly you had the right to defend yourself, drcspy, but IMHO, you could have been more reserved in your defense. There's no need to go off putting down other people, just because they put you down.

heni72847
10-02-2004, 12:03 AM
i agree with agent...

even though you are a tech.. there's no way you can know everything about computers.. it is impossible
you will know much much more than me.. but at the same time i will have some computer knowledge that you don't have

people also have different opinions on things
i always get pissed off with xtra and other isp
i was so angry about them i also got a 2nd fone line too

technology always sucks when you need it the most...
it is man made after all... man aren't perfect.. so won't our inventions..


... just a thought..

aroc
10-02-2004, 01:03 AM
Don't worry drcspy. WTF has a reputation on the forum for being one of the most veracible and rude men on it. Don't let it get to you. I think anyone in their right mind would have a go at some useless helpdesk staff if they were being rude. They sit at the phone all day because it matches their IQ level just like pizza hut call operators. I hear stories all the time of how helpdesk staff deliberately try to annoy their users.

Ring up the telco faults service and see if theres a fault on the line. If there isn't, quit xtra, join another ISP, stay with the other ISP. Then ring up xtra again, rant and rave, and then close the account with them.

drcspy
10-02-2004, 07:08 AM
rufus fair point 'Lets say xtra terminates its exchange at point A
and TelstraClear terminates its exchange at point B'

not sure on that one however that they terminate at diffeent points.......as i believe they share lines in almost every center in nz...... hmmm.....

roofus
10-02-2004, 07:27 AM
> rufus fair point 'Lets say xtra terminates its
> exchange at point A
> and TelstraClear terminates its exchange at point B'
>
> not sure on that one however that they terminate at
> diffeent points.......as i believe they share lines
> in almost every center in nz...... hmmm.....
>

I'm thinking you just want a reason to slag off Telecom. Not even prepared to listen to the potential reasons why. So i will leave you to it

Megaman
10-02-2004, 05:11 PM
lets start a flame war
it'll get us nowhere, a moderator will lock this, and tell us off

seriously

back to the question

try a temporary account with another isp

Clear Net (http://www.clear.net.nz) is fast, and i have heard a lot of good things about Orcon (http://www.orcon.co.nz)

MM

drcspy
10-02-2004, 05:43 PM
yeh I thought that last comment was a little off that wasn't my intention at all I just stated what I believed to be true............anyway......yep try another acount .............well I haev I have another one loaded on the puter it's a clear account and it 'always' gives a better speed.........

zqwerty
10-02-2004, 07:32 PM
drcspy,
I just spent a frustrating month playing around with modems (6), including, Dynalink, Us Robotics, 2 or 3 types from Dick Smith and a couple of others from different suppliers. I took them all back and stuck with my old one which always connects at 49.2kb/s. I have dual boot Win98se and Win2k. I have internal and external modems, I tried all the best known brands and they were all different on the two boot o/s's and also between themselves and even the same model of one brand acted differently in two different ways when I got an identical one because I thought the first one was faulty. Remember all are using exactly the same hardware to connect to the internet and I kept going back to my two original modems (internal and external) to compare results. In the end I have decided that it is a combination of dodgey hardware on the other end, won't say anymore, so that one never knows what hardware one is connecting to and also try forcing your modems to use V.90 Drivers and not the default V.92 because even though when one standard is not available they are supposed to default to the next standard down I don't think this works very well. The modem i have the best results with is a Flex modem and not V.90 series.

CU Rob.

and yes I am a technician who has been repairing all manner of electronics for 40 years. Don't worry too much about criticism it is very easy to get things wrong and have someone come along and bleat, but the secret is to persevere until you get to the bottom of the problem.

drcspy
10-02-2004, 08:47 PM
cheers mate thanks

forrest44
10-02-2004, 08:54 PM
I live in Tokoroa and pay $55 a month for wireless broadband!!!

Goes about 140 kilobytes (yes, 140 kilobytes) a second!!!

See http://southwaikato.net.nz/
They are a bit new and a tad unreliable, but works really, really good most of the time!!!

Dial-up goes about 5 kilobytes a second.

Cheers
forrest.

mikebartnz
10-02-2004, 09:06 PM
>just think before you shoot your mouth off
Ditto

drcspy
10-02-2004, 09:34 PM
yeh well unfortunately I still need a dial up connection cause as I often am fixing peoples puters.......even some who dont have net connections lol well soemtimes i need to import a dial up connection to their puter for various reasons and tha'ts my dial up account........so wireless/broadband etc are sorta out for that reason......

mikebartnz
10-02-2004, 10:24 PM
drcspy I know exactly what you mean. My first ISP has been my best (always downloaded at around 5k ) until they sold out for bigger and better things (Silicon Blue). The outfit that bought it ruined it so I moved to quicksilver ( today had a connection of 4.8 that is not 48). The download speeds aren't very fast so I tried Orcon which was a better service but I could not pay them online so ditched them. I believe they now allow online payments so might try them again.

Biggles
11-02-2004, 09:35 AM
You all know what I'm going to say. I don't want to lock this thread because there is still constructive discussion going on. On the other hand, I really want any further posts to be just that, constructive. The guilty (and there's more than one) know the drill. Go outside, dip your heads in a bucket of cold water, then help an old lady across the road to do penance. Then come back and help each other out in a tree-hugging, sandal-wearing, touchy feely kind of way. Don't make me reach out of this computer screen and rap you over the knuckles with my ruler.

karent
11-02-2004, 10:27 AM
Congratulations guys. Reading your "correspondence" has given me the biggest laugh of the year so far!
Now for something a little different but related - I have 3 PCs, all using the same phone line. One regularly (about 99% of the time) connects @ 48.2, one at 36 and the other never more than 28. Explain that one, if you can.

metla
11-02-2004, 10:29 AM
Maybe that last one has a 28k modem....

metla
11-02-2004, 10:31 AM
And maybe the 2nd one has a 36k modem,while the first has your run of the mill 56k.

forrest44
11-02-2004, 12:03 PM
Its been fluctuating a bit...

Its going about 90 k/bytes a second right now

karent
11-02-2004, 12:24 PM
Nope - not that simple. There's a 56k modem in each.

karent
11-02-2004, 12:26 PM
Oops - see reply to f44
:-)

fryup666
11-02-2004, 02:27 PM
jeez only been a member of this forum for 2 days and don't think I've seen more abuse anywhere! re whiskeytangofoxtrot's impressive resume... mentions that you work fulltime and completing a medical degree? As someone who has got a medical degree I find this incredible nay, impossible.. to work full-time and finish a medical degree, especially as you're based in wellie, and wellie doesn't have a medical school! (does have a hospital tho, so I guess you could be a registrar there, but that's a 80+ hr a week job, so I'm not sure where you'd find time to work on a help desk full time!) As for your abuse of someone who's simply venting some frustration at their ISP.. well jeez mate I've got a broadband connection and I still vent anger at me ISP. Get over it! I think if we asked 250,000 xtra subscribers what they thought of their service I guarentee that 25-30% + would think it's slack one way or another~!
GL&GT

Biggles
11-02-2004, 02:33 PM
In case I didn't make my self clear, which I obviously didn't, we will now stop all personal abuse. Case closed. No more. Nada. Zip. End of story.