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View Full Version : A non snooping OS from Microsquash



Tobas
11-01-2004, 12:21 PM
I would be interested to know what Op Sys's there were from Microsoft whereby registration was not an absolute requirement and where they did not give themselves the OK to snoop around and check out your computer and software :-(

While we have nothing to hide, nevertheless I object to being forced to register or letting them look around our machines.

We run Windows ME and while there are reports on just how bad it is, it does everything we want of it and to top it off it is the only op sys we use in conjunction with a business. :-)

We have never registered any of the software, but does anyone know if they gave themselves permission to check us out?

Would like to try Linux ? but reading the posts requiring help on this Op Sys, we thing we had better leave it alone for the present :-)

Mike
11-01-2004, 12:41 PM
Tobas,

I run Windows XP. I have never registered any Microsoft software. Nor does Microsoft "snoop" around my system. If you're worried about it, install a decent firewall.

It would take an enormous effort for Microsoft to be able to snoop around on people's machines, and even if they could, what could they do with it? You'd notice if they tried to open files etc, as your internet connection would grind to a halt, yet you'd see a lot of activity. Any besides, why would they bother? If they found something they didn't like, they wouldn't be able to do anything about it anyway. They wouldn't be allowed to, and besides, how would they know who you are or where you live? You'd need to have that information stored somewhere on your PC, and on top of that, they'd need to know where you've stored it (have you told them? I haven't).

Don't be so paranoid - Microsoft aren't going to go around snooping on your PC. I'd be more worried about people sending my a virus or a trojan, or a hacker trying to gain access (which I'm still not worried about, as I've got a decent firewall, and besides, why would they bother?)

Mike.

whiskeytangofoxtrot
11-01-2004, 12:46 PM
> I run Windows XP. I have never registered any
> Microsoft software.

Did you "product activate" Windows XP?

Mike
11-01-2004, 12:49 PM
> Did you "product activate" Windows XP?

No.

Mike.

whiskeytangofoxtrot
11-01-2004, 12:51 PM
So I'd imagine your version of Windows XP is an "acquired" less than legal copy, as Windows XP requires activation or it stops operating.

Mike
11-01-2004, 12:57 PM
> So I'd imagine your version of Windows XP is an
> "acquired" less than legal copy, as Windows XP
> requires activation or it stops operating.

Be careful before you accuse people of "less than legal" activities. I own my copy of Windows XP quite legitimately, there is nothing "less than legal" about it.

The Windows XP I have installed on my machine does not require activation.

That said, you can activate Windows XP without being connected to the internet. Phone Microsoft. No personal information needs to be given to them (as far as I'm aware - I've never done it, I've just been told), but they give you the activation key, you type it in, and you're away, activated, and no connection to Microsoft took place.

Mike.

Marshell
11-01-2004, 01:07 PM
I'm also running a Legal copy that didn't Require activation (MS Select copy that my companies paid for).

I agree with mike if your so worried, Phone activate and install a Software Firewall to control what apps get out to the web

hamstar
11-01-2004, 01:35 PM
Don't you people understand? Microsoft are Microsoft... They are coders, it's their software and NO-ONE can know exactly what they put in it.

Remember Windows 95? It asked you if you wanted to send Microsoft a list of all the programs installed. Even if you clicked no, it still went.
Although now they probably don't ask.

Who knows how sneaky they are beneath this gluggy GUI?

They could have coded in a backdoor to Windows that has an unpickable lock on it so you have to have the right key to get in - and no software firewall could detect it.

They could have built in a system that cordons off a certain amount of bandwidth for their tube so what we think 5 kB/s is now could actually be faster because they coded in a thing to hide the cordoned off bandwidth.

You think the security holes are accidents? I saw a funny take on Microsoft in a James Bond movie. The baddie said "Yes, the softwares got security holes all through it... they'll be downloading patches for years," or something to that effect. Maybe itcould be the same at Microsoft... we have to download the patches and then they can track us.

Its all conspiracy theories I know... but what I'm trying to say is that unless you are the Cheif Microsoft Programmer you don't know what THE hell goes into THEIR software.

But people use it anyway for lack of an easier way out...

hamstar
11-01-2004, 01:37 PM
If linux and M$ came together with the GUI designers of Mac, and made an OS... it sales would skyrocket benefitting all! But M$ and Mac are snobs so it'll never happen...

Mike
11-01-2004, 01:41 PM
> Its all conspiracy theories I know... but what I'm
> trying to say is that unless you are the Cheif
> Microsoft Programmer you don't know what THE hell
> goes into THEIR software.

So what? That could be said about any piece of software. It doesn't mean it actually happens (it's quite unlikely).

Mike.

rodb
11-01-2004, 02:11 PM
I presume that Hamstar works for Apple or Oracle.
His anti-Microsoft ravings should be ignored, as should the Linux geeks.

agent
11-01-2004, 02:26 PM
Just because someone hasn't activated Windows XP, doesn't mean their copy is illegitimate.

From the last time I read the EULA for XP, I don't remember a section saying "Windows XP must be activated or you are breaking the agreement of this EULA". I've got a few tools to remove the need for activation myself, though I've never used them on my machine.

I must say the same about activation, if you're really worried, activate it over the phone. Every time I've activated XP, it's been over the phone [because my modem driver isn't included in XP, and I never bothered keeping a copy of it before reinstalling Windows]. I'm not worried about Microsoft snooping, because I use a firewall.

ZoneAlarm is a very good firewall to use, and so is Kerio, though I personally use Kerio Personal Firewall 2.1.5 due to the inbuilt rules in the later versions.

Dolby Digital
11-01-2004, 03:11 PM
>> I presume that Hamstar works for Apple or Oracle.
I suspect not... then maybe he does. Even within the walls of Apple and Oracle will lie people with pro and anti Microsoft attitudes.

>>His anti-Microsoft ravings should be ignored, as should the Linux geeks.
We don't rave anti-Microsoft. We love Microsoft and all it stands for. Now you run along and buy another few Microsoft licences. They deserve the revenue cos Microsoft is good for America ;\

Billy T
11-01-2004, 03:28 PM
I don't understand all this paranoia about Microsoft. If you buy your software and don't try to cheat or steal from the owners, what's to worry about?

IMHO you are only one short step away from the funny farm when you start worrying about Microsoft bothering to check up on just one of the umpteen million users of their software.

Buy it, register it, use it, and sleep at night, a good firewall takes care of the rest.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :|

Baldy
11-01-2004, 03:41 PM
Why the hell are some people who own computers so damned paranoid?????

Microsoft does not and will never snoop on the average computer user. And even if they did, why the hell would they want to? Its a bit like when TV was first here, everyone thought that the announcers could see the people who were watching the news.

I thought the average computer user had more intelligence

agent
11-01-2004, 03:56 PM
I'm not paranoid about what's coming into my machine, I'm more concerned about what's going out. I won't permit internet access to anything unless it is needed by me for some use.

I don't personally think that Microsoft snoops into my computer, although if TCPA dawns then they will have some control over what Windows users can put on their computers. However, I suppose we are all entitled to our opinions, as absurd as others may think they are.

Graham L
11-01-2004, 03:57 PM
More intelligence than what?


By definition half of them are below average. :D

albatross
11-01-2004, 04:56 PM
Could be time someone found a new interest I think.....a bit of computer fever setting in.

Baldy
11-01-2004, 06:53 PM
> More intelligence than what?
>
>
> By definition half of them are below average. :D

Very sharp Graham

Dolby Digital
11-01-2004, 07:36 PM
>>Microsoft does not and will never snoop on the average computer user.
Don't underestimate that company called Microsoft. They want to know what programs you are using, how much you are willing to pay, etc etc in the name of marketing. You must remember that if you are the most powerful computer company in the world, you want to stay there.

>>I thought the average computer user had more intelligence.
The average computer user is blissfully unaware of whether or not they are being monitored.

Billy T
11-01-2004, 07:45 PM
> I'm more concerned about what's going out. I won't
> permit internet access to anything unless it is
> needed by me for some use.

My point exactly. ZoneAlarm stops any unapproved outgoings, so what is there to keep singing about. It is brain-dead simple.

If in doubt, say no.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

JohnD
11-01-2004, 09:23 PM
>Would like to try Linux ? but reading the posts requiring help on this Op Sys, we thing we had better leave it alone for the present

Depends on what you are wanting to use Linux for - as a simple desktop PC it is really just as easy as MSWindows (only a bit different). I have been using Redhat as my only desktop for over 2 years and have no thoughts of going back.

whiskeytangofoxtrot
11-01-2004, 09:38 PM
> Just because someone hasn't activated Windows XP,
> doesn't mean their copy is illegitimate.

Unless you are using a corporate version of Windows XP intended for mass licencing, activation is mandatory, unless you use a hack to get around it, or use an illegal copy.

If you then install the same CD of XP and try to activate it on a different PC, when it sends it's "random number" generated on the basis of the hardware installed in your machine it won't activate citing that this copy of XP has already been activated on a different machine.

You then have to ring M$ and justify why your hardware has changed in order to activate again.

Go buy a Dell off the shelf somewhere, or install XP Home off a shop bought CD.

First thing that comes up is "Please activate windows, it will stop operating in 15 days unless it is activated" (or something to that effect)

Megaman
11-01-2004, 09:42 PM
i never activated my copy


it came already installed!

btw if ur so paranoid dont buy windows xp "longhorn"

"palladium" ringing a bell?

Mike
11-01-2004, 09:46 PM
> btw if ur so paranoid dont buy windows xp "longhorn"

ROFLMAO :^O I don't think you've got any worries there Megaman - Longhorn is still about 18 months from reaching our store shelves :) It hasn't entered beta yet, so very few people know what will be in the end product - not even many of the programmers at Microsoft. :D

Mike.

Megaman
11-01-2004, 09:49 PM
> > btw if ur so paranoid dont buy windows xp
> "longhorn"
>
> ROFLMAO :^O I don't think you've got any worries
> there Megaman - Longhorn is still about 18 months
> from reaching our store shelves :) It hasn't entered
> beta yet, so very few people know what will be in the
> end product - not even many of the programmers at
> Microsoft. :D
>
> Mike.

oh i wont worry

when i buy my next computer if i cant buy xp pro as it is now i'll get a nice new shiny ibook thanks

hamstar
12-01-2004, 01:42 AM
>It doesn't mean it actually happens (it's quite unlikely)
Ahh but on the other hand it could be quit likely...

>I presume that Hamstar works for Apple or Oracle.
Nope... I would like a fancy-ass job like that... but I'm a student.

>His anti-Microsoft ravings should be ignored
*in a deep booming voice*]:)FINE!, TAKE NO NOTICE OF ME, YOU SHALL ALL PERISH BY THE HAND OF MICROSOFT!]:)
;-)LMAO!!!

>I'm not worried about Microsoft snooping, because I use a firewall.
>a good firewall takes care of the rest
"I'm not worried about someone stealing my car cos I lock the doors."

>Microsoft is good for America
Agreed... God bless america:-P. Linux is available in Maori!

>Very sharp Graham
yea... good one graham. :^O

>Buy it, register it, use it, and sleep at night
Buy it! I aint paying for their buggy, hole-ridden software(Lucky I got w2k free with my p00ter)... Linux is t00 hard for a n00b like me and I'm a geek so I won't walk in to MagnumMac with a gun! The internets resources are right at my fingertips...

>Don't underestimate that company called Microsoft. They want to know what programs you are using, how much you are willing to pay, etc etc in the name of marketing. You must remember that if you are the most powerful computer company in the world, you want to stay there. The average computer user is blissfully unaware of whether or not they are being monitored.
Thats it! He understands!!!
(ZOLTAN!!!)

And if M$ cut off supplies of their other OS's once Longhorn comes out (a sneaky M$ trick), I'll be downloading their software.

whiskeytangofoxtrot
12-01-2004, 02:23 AM
>Lucky I got w2k free with my p00ter

Yeah it was free... thats it...

For someone so seemingly vehemently anti M$ I'm surprised you don't realise that in no way is it free, it's factored into the price, and chances are the company selling the machine has done a deal with M$ and isn't allowed to sell a complete machine without a M$ OS on it.

I also love your location... pure Microsoft...

Chilling_Silently
12-01-2004, 09:57 AM
> > btw if ur so paranoid dont buy windows xp
> "longhorn"
Actually, there's no "xp" about it, its simply called Windows Codenamed Longhorn.
Says it when it boots ;-)

> ROFLMAO :^O I don't think you've got any worries
> there Megaman - Longhorn is still about 18 months
> from reaching our store shelves :) It hasn't entered
> beta yet, so very few people know what will be in the
> end product - not even many of the programmers at
> Microsoft. :D
I thought it was due for release around the end of 2006?
Apparently Linux will be on around half the worlds PC's by then accoding to some statistic Ive lost the URL for so cant back that statement up :p

> My point exactly. ZoneAlarm stops any unapproved outgoings, so what is there to
> keep singing about. It is brain-dead simple.
>
> If in doubt, say no.
Exactly.. Unless they know a way around software firewalls... Then bring on smoothwall or the likes ;-)

>>>I thought the average computer user had more intelligence.
> The average computer user is blissfully unaware of whether or not they are being
> monitored.
Yeah.. SpyWare and Viruses are so common on the clients PC's I repair. one in every 5-6 would have a virus, and EVERY single on so far has had a good amount of spyware when a check run with Spybot Search & Destroy!

> More intelligence than what?
Apparently Mac users are smartest of the lot... I read an article in the paper about it a year or so back... Seriously, something like 70% are online as opposed to a lot less Windows users. They never mentioned Linux?

>>>His anti-Microsoft ravings should be ignored, as should the Linux geeks.
That's a bit over-stereotypical bud. I dont go round saying that all Windows users PC's are riddled with spyware now do I (Although for most its probably true ;-)).

> I'm also running a Legal copy that didn't Require activation (MS Select copy that my
> companies paid for).

VLK's or CVLK's (Coporate Volume Liscence Keys) are good.. but they get leaked.... and that's bad for MS.... They needa sort out what they've done with the keys and crack down on it. You've gotta wonder how many people are using the DevilsDown VLK for XP and just staying away from WinXP SP1?
A lot more keys could install SP1 but got blacklisted from WindowsUpdate.com after that.

Tobas and Hamstar>
If you're both really that paranoid that you dont trust the software, then try Solaris, Linux, or even BSD :D
As JohnD said its not hard to use it for Desktop use.

YMMV, but you'll only know if you try.

For now, just install a good firewall.. Two or three if you really wanna go through all the extra hassle of being double-sure.

Or stick to MS-DOS ;-)


Chill.

hamstar
12-01-2004, 11:08 AM
>If you're both really that paranoid that you dont trust the software, then try Solaris, Linux, or even BSD
Linux... Yeah sure easy to use... but to setup, now thats the definition of a biatch!

>Or stick to MS-DOS
Yeah MS-DOS is great, but the internet, and games... no wait. Everything is limited...

I fear that people turn to Microsoft as the easy way out. Like me.:8}

Billy T
12-01-2004, 02:48 PM
>Buy it! I aint paying for their buggy, hole-ridden software

Horses for courses I guess, I started with W3.11/DOS 6.22 and progressed through W95 to W98 (which I still use) and W2000.

I am using the latter three systems daily in business across a 6 computer network and I've had no bug problems. Everything is kept up to date (except W95 sadly) I don't surf shonky sites or download doubtful software and I have a relatively trouble free existence as a result.

Incidentally, I have never had to reformat any HDD or reinstall W95 or W98 since their original installations. I have reinstalled W98 from a Ghost Image twice when I botched up software installations but since that just restores to the previous well used setup it doesn't count as a reinstallation in my book.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :|

ugh1
12-01-2004, 02:52 PM
> > I'm more concerned about what's going out. I won't
> > permit internet access to anything unless it is
> > needed by me for some use.
>
> My point exactly. ZoneAlarm stops any unapproved
> outgoings, so what is there to keep singing about.
> It is brain-dead simple.

One who thinks a software based firewall running on windows is making them safe is a person who does not understand software based firewalls.

To be truley safe you need an external hardware based firewall.

One who thinks a software based firewall can block ALL outgoing connections is truley brain dead <grin>

>
> If in doubt, say no.
>
> Cheers
>
> Billy 8-{)

agent
12-01-2004, 03:17 PM
Er, no, because running a hardware firewall is more a matter of convenience.

I don't want to be running a hardware firewall just to be completely safe when I am connecting to the internet via my dial-up account, from one computer at a time.

My software firewall does a good enough job for me, and besides, if Microsoft have built in reserved unseen bandwidth and stuff (as mentioned previously in this thread), I've got nothing to hide from them.

Billy T
12-01-2004, 05:53 PM
Sorry Uggy, I should have mentioned that I hide behind a NAT router as well, but just the same, for the average user a software firewall with outgoing permissions restricted will provide perfectly adequate protection, even more so if the user is on dial up and not permanently on-line. ZA is as effective as any software firewall can be and it is better than most.

There is just far too much paranoia about computers sending data without their users' knowledge and it is unlikely to happen to those who steer clear of sites that carry spyware and other nasties.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Chilling_Silently
12-01-2004, 05:59 PM
> >If you're both really that paranoid that you dont
> trust the software, then try Solaris, Linux, or even
> BSD
> Linux... Yeah sure easy to use... but to setup, now
> thats the definition of a biatch!
HA!

Now thats a laugh!!!!

When was the last time you setup Fedora Core 1, or Lycoris Desktop/LX?

Tobas
13-01-2004, 06:30 PM
Wow 33 replies - but it is time to confess :-)

The origional post was to be a practical demonstration of a thread hijack to a bunch of school children on a semi-formal computer learning teach-in.

We considered it sucessful. Of course this was only a very small part of the events.

PF1'ers you did not let me down. I had no idea if it would work, so it was a very risky business. As an added bonus some of the other adults told me I would get no more than 6 replies. So knowing you lot I arranged a small side bet for a few cold amber drinks. Very nice too!!

To be fair, I actually had a small amount of interest in the post and to those who provided "on topic" replies - thank you.

Hope no one is too upset - but if U are - that's life :-)

albatross
13-01-2004, 07:07 PM
Remember those words next time you require help in future.......
..............Now thats life...

hamstar
13-01-2004, 08:18 PM
LMAO!!!

Growly
13-01-2004, 08:40 PM
Yes, yes, let's all use complicated language too complex for the majority of users who even bother to post off topic in order to confuse them into something that probably never happened, now back to the, er... redefined topic....

>...Microsoft....most powerful computer company in the world...
Only if you let them be ;-)

> > I'm also running a Legal copy that didn't Require
> activation (MS Select copy that my
> > companies paid for).
>
> VLK's or CVLK's (Coporate Volume Liscence Keys) are
> good.. but they get leaked.... and that's bad for
> MS.... They needa sort out what they've done with the
> keys and crack down on it. You've gotta wonder how
> many people are using the DevilsDown VLK for XP and
> just staying away from WinXP SP1?
> A lot more keys could install SP1 but got blacklisted
> from WindowsUpdate.com after that.

:D


OH, and can we please not forget about the people WHO CANT RUN WINDOWS BECAUSE OF RANDOM ERRORS AND STRANGE HAPPENNINGS?

Sigh... so many more arguments, so little time....

hamstar
13-01-2004, 11:55 PM
JUST USE WINDOWS 2000 AND ALL YOUR WORRIES WILL FLOAT OUT THE WINDOW!

____________________________________________
XP is ****.com

Chilling_Silently
14-01-2004, 12:09 AM
> JUST USE WINDOWS 2000 AND ALL YOUR WORRIES WILL FLOAT
> OUT THE WINDOW!

Are you running Windows 2000?

What about Windows Media Player 9?

Billy T
14-01-2004, 01:35 PM
> JUST USE WINDOWS 2000 AND ALL YOUR WORRIES WILL FLOAT
> OUT THE WINDOW!
>
> ____________________________________________
> XP is ****.com

I think it is time you read the PF1 rules again Robert. Bad language and slagging off programs that are working satisfactorily for millions of users don't have any place here. I use W2000 and like it, but by all accounts (from highly respected contributors to PF1) XP is even better.

Billy 8-{)

hamstar
14-01-2004, 02:01 PM
:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P

yeah, I run windows 2000....

wmp9, no way!

Graham L
14-01-2004, 02:27 PM
I don't like any operating system much. Some are less offensive than others. I've always considered the best computer to be one which has a programme loader so it can run "my programme".

I won't buy any computer which will run only "trusted" software. I don't trust anyone that much. And anyone who says that code with millions of lines of C code can be trusted is a liar.

There are enough fast CPUs around now to see me out. I don't care if they are obsolete when I get them ... that makes them cheap. :D

Arguments about Microsoft's business ethics are pointless. They will do whatever they can get away with. That's how the market "works".