PDA

View Full Version : larger hard drive in old computer



Mike
23-12-2003, 08:06 PM
My dad's boss has a K6-2 400Mhz machine... it has a 4gb and a 2gb, the 4gb we assume is faulty, so he went out and bought a 40gb drive. However we can't get it to detect in the bios... even if I enter in the settings manually there's no result (eg when the machine boots it pauses for about 30 seconds then it skips to the system settings screen (where no HDD is listed) and gives the old "No System Disk..." message.

My dad's much older Pentium 120 had no problem seeing the 20gb we stuck in there a year or so ago - is it likely that a 20gb would be found when the 40gb isn't?

Any other suggestions?

Mike.

bmason
23-12-2003, 08:34 PM
Its probably has the ~32gb limit. There should be a jumper on drive that will allow it to work by limiting the size to 32gb.

Mike
23-12-2003, 08:37 PM
Yeah I thought about that... however I did also think that it might still be detected by the BIOS?

I'll suggest that to my dad...

Mike.

Mzee
23-12-2003, 08:41 PM
I have recently installed a 40gb Western Digital drive in a an AMD K6-2 computer & had no problems. It is running Windows ME.
A couple of years ago I upgraded the BIOS on this machine so that it would run XP.
The drives are all set to "Auto"
I once had trouble with an invisible drive and discovered that the partition had been hudden.
If you boot on a floppy and load "Partition Magic" you will be able to see it and unhide it.
I presume that you have set the jumper ( slave or Master) and that the cable has the red stripe towards the power socket.

drcspy
23-12-2003, 08:45 PM
"load partition magic' .........well yes that MIGHT help but it'd cost a LOT more than goin and getting an 'ide controller card' (aka raid card)...........this will allow almost ANY system to recognize ANY drive of ANY size cause it bypasses the bios.............best thing you can try otherwise is to set the bios to defaults and or set the hard drive recognition in bios to 'auto'.......but a pci ide controller card will definitely work

Mike
23-12-2003, 08:46 PM
> I have recently installed a 40gb Western Digital
> drive in a an AMD K6-2 computer & had no problems.

40gb Western Digital in an AMD K6-2 - same here :)
Upgrading the BIOS might be a possibility, but that'll be left to be the absolute last resort I think :)

Mike.

drcspy
23-12-2003, 08:48 PM
oh yep......another thing.............depending on what harddirve type you have bought go look on the makers website......eg www.seagate.com or www.maxtor.com etc ........they often have a free downloadable small program which will allow you to 'fool' the system so that the whole drive is recognized.......

Mike
23-12-2003, 08:51 PM
> but a pci ide controller card will definitely work

Do you guarantee that?

Mike.

Mike
23-12-2003, 08:52 PM
> oh yep......another thing.............depending on
> what harddirve type you have bought go look on the
> makers website......eg www.seagate.com or
> www.maxtor.com etc ........they often have a free
> downloadable small program which will allow you to
> 'fool' the system so that the whole drive is
> recognized.......

I can't get past the BIOS, so how would I get a program to run?

Mike.

Odin
23-12-2003, 09:18 PM
I'd say it starting to look like you might have to upgrade your bios, but that can be a tricky and risky thing to do in those older machines.

drcspy
23-12-2003, 09:29 PM
the program from the harddrive mfg will run on boot disk once you have downloaded it and double cliked it it'll write a boot floppy from which to run.......

as for pci ide card .............yes I have had troubles with large hdds on older systems which i couldn't find bios updates for and installed a ide controller card......(which yoru harddrive plugs into) ......well that FIXED the problem alright............instant operation with FULL harddrive size recognized...........see the controller cards have their own bios

tweak\'e
23-12-2003, 09:59 PM
and to think just at the mo i'm installing a 40gig on a p120 :)

check for bios upgrade first, 2nd overlay software from harddrive manafacture, 3rd ata card.

ata card will almost always work. (the one i'm doing at the moment dosn't have win95 drivers so it will be interesting)

Mike
24-12-2003, 08:09 AM
> check for bios upgrade first, 2nd overlay software
> from harddrive manafacture, 3rd ata card.

BIOS upgrade first? I'm not sure I'm prepared to do a bios upgrade first, as its not my machine... if it were mine I'd have done it already ;) But we'll see...

Mike.

Mzee
24-12-2003, 10:39 AM
You could use "F Disk" (on your start floppy) instead of "Partition Magic" be careful with it.

May be a silly question, but have you formatted the drive?

kiwibeat
24-12-2003, 11:17 AM
I have a PCI ata 133 capable controller card for sale $45 if any one wants it supports up to 4 extra IDE devices from ata33 upwards near new , flashing bios can be very dangerous

tweak\'e
24-12-2003, 11:17 AM
i have no idea why anyone is talking about fdisk or partition magic, neither will be able to do anything if the motherboard can't access the drive.

yes mike, bios upgrade is the easyiest and cheapest. i've yet to kill a pc with a bios upgrade. easy enough provided you follow the instructions.

Archibald
24-12-2003, 11:24 AM
Mzee, what do think using FDisk or PM will achieve in this particular situation. ?:|

drcspy
24-12-2003, 01:36 PM
<.......votes for controller card as being the safest and most likely option to work........

Mike
24-12-2003, 08:50 PM
> the program from the harddrive mfg will run on boot
> disk once you have downloaded it and double cliked it
> it'll write a boot floppy from which to run.......

right, I did that... followed all the instructions... the program couldn't detect a HDD... probably because the BIOS still can't detect it.

Mike.

drcspy
24-12-2003, 09:06 PM
you tried settign the bios to defaults etc etc ?.......hdd detection to auto ?...........otherwise

<.......votes for controller card as being the safest and most likely option to work........

Elephant
24-12-2003, 09:49 PM
I have read this very carefully. Nowhere do I see a motherboard manufacturer or hard drive model. You seem to know what you are doing but for me to help then further info is required.

Quite a while ago I had to replace a hard drive and actually used overlay software to accomplish this.

At that time I didn't want to flash a BIOS but have done so several times since.

For me it's still a little scary flashing the BIOS in so far as I don't know if I may get a power cut part way through.

ugh1
24-12-2003, 10:52 PM
A BIOS update, if avaliable will fix the problem for the price of a download..

A extra IDE controller will fix the problem for a price. Make sure it is supported by your desired O/S. Also make sure it will work even after you have disabled the on-board IDE controller...

Make your choice.

P.S. Power outages while updating a BIOS can be fixed by a thing called an UPS.

Mike
25-12-2003, 08:29 AM
> I have read this very carefully. Nowhere do I see a
> motherboard manufacturer or hard drive model. You

I have no idea what motherboard it is, but the hard drive model is a Western Digital Protege 40gb (WD400EB I believe).

> seem to know what you are doing but for me to help
> then further info is required.
>
> Quite a while ago I had to replace a hard drive and
> actually used overlay software to accomplish this.

Well the instructions at the Western Digital website told me how to set the jumpers etc. and how to set the BIOS (since Auto Detect wouldn't work I had to set a User defined HDD to about 528mb to try to fool the BIOS into seeing the drive, as suggested by the instructions). The BIOS still did not see the HDD, and the software that WD suggested I download didn't see the HDD either, so no overlay software could be installed.

> At that time I didn't want to flash a BIOS but have
> done so several times since.
>
> For me it's still a little scary flashing the BIOS in
> so far as I don't know if I may get a power cut part
> way through.

I have no problem flashing BIOS - have done it many many times on different machines. However as this one isn't mine, I don't think I'm prepared to do it "just-in-case" ;) as I've got no back up to replace the machine with if something does happen to go wrong.

I'll have another try at something else I read at WD when I go to my dad's place today, but I'm still very open for suggestions!

Mike.

Mike
25-12-2003, 08:30 AM
> P.S. Power outages while updating a BIOS can be fixed
> by a thing called an UPS.

And everyone has one of those lying around with the rest of their junk, right? :p

Mike.

drcspy
25-12-2003, 08:36 AM
the ide controller will FIX the problem and without risk

Mike
25-12-2003, 08:40 AM
> the ide controller will FIX the problem and without
> risk

Where do I get one from? And how much?

Mike.

drcspy
25-12-2003, 09:07 AM
just about any puter shop..............price varies

check this site out........I've copied some for you


http://www.pricespy.co.nz/search.php?search=raid+controller


ST Lab PCI Ultra ATA133 RAID Controller Card 2 Independent Channels $53.33 $60.00 Paradigm PCs

PCI Ultra ATA133 IDE Raid Card $60.44 $68.00 PCGear-dunedin

ATA133 Raid PCI $64.00 $72.00 PB Tech Hamilton

Ultra ATA133 IDE RAID $75.56 $85.00 Quay Computers

Elephant
25-12-2003, 09:30 AM
OK Mike,

It would appear you have two options.

Do a BIOS flash or get a card. Your choice.

If it was me in your situation on another machine I would start with downloading Aida32 and this will give you the motherboard model. This assumes you still have an Internet connection on the PC in question. You can open the case and maybe find certain numbers on the motherboard to help you search.

Once you have the motherboard make and model you can then search for a BIOS update to flash the BIOS.

I'm fairly sure you you know this already though.

It is my belief that we have a BIOS problem here but a new controller card may well help.

Mike
25-12-2003, 09:39 AM
> If it was me in your situation on another machine I
> would start with downloading Aida32 and this will
> give you the motherboard model.

Does Aida32 run from DOS, or does it require Windows? Or is there an Aida16 that'll run from a boot floppy? There is no HDD in the machine anymore.

Mike.

Odin
25-12-2003, 09:45 AM
Since you have said that you don't know what your motherboard is, and if you can't find out what it is, then you only option is to try the PCI IDE card. While it should work (depends on just how old the motherboard is), be aware that if it doesn't then most retailers won't take the card back as it has been opened. Talk to them first and ask if it is alright to return the card if it doesn't solve the problem.

The consumers guarantee doesn't cover you if a device doesn't work because your system can't handle it, Unless the salesperson specifically tells you that it will.

Goodluck, maybe as said above Aida32 can give you the information needed to check out the board manufacturer so you can see if there is in fact a Bios update that will fix the problem.

Elephant
25-12-2003, 10:16 AM
Aida32 will not run from DOS. I'm not positive there is an Aida16.

I'm a little confused now. As I saw the original post I thought you had two hard drives and you now say it doesn't have any???

So you have opened the case and can you see any ID for the motherboard?

If no hard drive then boot off a Win98 floppy disk. As the PC boots take note of the letters and numbers on the bottom left corner of the screen. You may have to do this several times in order to write things down. It may happen fairly fast. This will help identify the motherboard.

I'm off to find something that will run from a floppy which will help. I have things here but I'm not there. :-)

tweak\'e
25-12-2003, 10:51 AM
yes there is aida16 which will run off a floppy. also when booting pc there is often a string of numbers on the bottom of the screen which can indicate what model it is, which can proberly be confirmed by looking on the motherboard for a model number.

Mike
25-12-2003, 02:55 PM
> I'm a little confused now. As I saw the original post
> I thought you had two hard drives and you now say it
> doesn't have any???

Sorry Elephant, I should have said in my original post, it was the faulty 4gb that had the OS on it...

Cheers,

Mike.

Megaman
25-12-2003, 03:02 PM
our old k5 amd 166mhz had no troubles with a new 40gb harddrive under windows 95. then again, it would only use 8gb and it was installed at the repair shop. try taking it to bigbyte. they have a pcclinic and for around $40 (if i remember it correctly) they will install it for you.

drcspy
25-12-2003, 04:10 PM
check at the beginning of boot and tell us wht bios version it is please

I'd almost guarantee that an ide controller card will work I've used one in a couple of situations umm...........one was a p2 400Mhz with bios award v4.51 pg and the other wqs ummm........P1 233 same type of bios...

Susan B
25-12-2003, 08:01 PM
> For me it's still a little scary flashing the BIOS in so far as I don't know if I may get a power cut part way through.

You never know when one will happen. Had one here yesterday whilst in the middle of browsing and in a conversation - the power went down for an hour and a half. Frightened the chickens out of me but the PCs fired up later as though nothing had happened, fortunately. I would hate to have been in the middle of something important like flashing the BIOS.

Incidentally that was about the fourth power cut we have had this year and the first time I actually had a computer running. Power cuts in the past have been rare, maybe one a year if that, but four this year alone?! :O

Elephant
25-12-2003, 08:45 PM
> > For me it's still a little scary flashing the BIOS
> in so far as I don't know if I may get a power cut
> part way through.
>
> You never know when one will happen. Had one here
> yesterday whilst in the middle of browsing and in a
> conversation - the power went down for an hour and a
> half. Frightened the chickens out of me but the PCs
> fired up later as though nothing had happened,
> fortunately. I would hate to have been in the middle
> of something important like flashing the BIOS.
>
> Incidentally that was about the fourth power cut we
> have had this year and the first time I actually had
> a computer running. Power cuts in the past have been
> rare, maybe one a year if that, but four this year
> alone?! :O

Elephant
25-12-2003, 08:48 PM
Sorry for the quote and non post but I went to preview and PressF1 dropped out with an error.

My ISP I think. I will do it again if you forgive me.

rmcb
26-12-2003, 11:07 AM
Yes there is an Aida16, it will run from a dos floppy.....

http://www.aida32.hu/aida-download.php?bit=16

Have a look at http://www.wimsbios.com you will find tip on how to id motherboards.

Mzee
26-12-2003, 02:42 PM
Partition Magic which runs in Dos will see a hidden drive.
Of course, if there is something wrong with the installation it won't.

Susan B
27-12-2003, 09:57 AM
Mike, Parry has posted an url to a site in this thread (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=42865) which might be of some help? This page (http://kimihia.org.nz/articles/hdsize/) in particular.

Mike
27-12-2003, 11:22 PM
I have further problems to this now (although this particular problem seems to have been solved...)

See http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=42912]This thread[/url].

Cheers,

Mike.