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View Full Version : OT: Helping People with Disablities and the Law/Policy of it



csinclair83
11-12-2003, 05:09 PM
I been looking on google but not having much luck, I just wanna know what the law or policy of ALL NZ polytech/unis are towards helping people with disablities, like do they HAVE to provide a interpreter for Deaf, or do they HAVE to provide a notetaker if someone has no arms? and so on...or do they HAVE to try and provide something that the costs can be reasonable for etc?

I dont want something thats 'specific' to each place, but something in general that covers everywhere...

Hope you peeps get my message as I dont think i am explaining this well...

Cheers

metla
11-12-2003, 05:14 PM
I havent read it but this looks like the info your after.

http://www.adhd.org.nz/legaled1.html

csinclair83
11-12-2003, 05:20 PM
hmmm thats good info there...
i'll explain the situation here but wont be naming names

a guy i know wants to attend polytech and hes deaf like me and he has got approved place on the course which i think is great but the classes are 9am to 3pm each day (like a normal school day) with classes from 9am to 10:30 then 11 to 1 then 1:30 to 3....and some days there are no classes between 10:30 and 1 so yeah..(friday is only classes till 1pm)
and they are saying they cannot provide a interpreter for the WHOLE day every day as costs are too high...

is that discrimination or just saying they cannot provide equal education as they cant afford it? and what is this student entitled to? full education with no barriers or anything?

Murray P
11-12-2003, 05:33 PM
Isn't there a Disabilities Commissioners office? I imagine that your friend could apply for some sort of education grant from the Ministry of Education or similar. I also would have thought that the institution that your friend has been accepted at could/should have supplied all the relevant info on such matters.

Cheers Murray P

csinclair83
11-12-2003, 05:38 PM
they say they will provide a interpreter but wont be every class every day....and he wants one to be there every class.....

and what wuld the disablitites commissioners office do? or can do to help?

Graham L
11-12-2003, 05:42 PM
It's not discrimination. :D You're entitled to your free education if you can afford it. ;-)

I'm sure they would like to provide an interpreter. But it might easily cost the places for two or three other students. Interpreters don't come cheaply.

And whatever the gobblement say about a knowledge economy, all education sectors are starved of money. They are not helped by the rubbish management theories which are making teachers into form-fillers first.

Agitate for 5c/litre on petrol to go to education instead of funnelling more cars into Auckland's central congestion district. :D

csinclair83
11-12-2003, 05:47 PM
but we are entitled to education regardless our status...white black asian, deaf, blind...

hes using a student loan for the course so thats done...
well if it costs the place of 2-3 students then get another 2-3 students on top of what they have now.. wont hurt them a lil bit as they can regather it over time i'm sure...

but seriously...what is he to do when hes in a class with no interpreter or support? how is he supposed to learn?

i told him to not confirm the enrolment till he knows what hes getting and hes emailed the person organising it to ask what the status is on the organisation of getting one for him...

Graham L
11-12-2003, 05:54 PM
The fees you pay don't cover the costs of the course. The instituition gets a payment from the taxpayer for each "Full Time Effective Student".

One deaf student with a full time interpreter would mop up quite a few of those payments. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but ...

Murray P
11-12-2003, 05:56 PM
> they say they will provide a interpreter but wont be
> every class every day....and he wants one to be there
> every class.....
Exactly, a grant, if one can be got, may cover the shortfall.

> and what wuld the disablitites commissioners office
> do? or can do to help?

That I do not know. Your friend may have to contact them to find out. But my guess is advice, at least.

GL, if the so & so's hadn't been dipping their dirty snouts into the national roads fund all these years for the general fund then the roads would not be in the state of disrepair and chaos they are in now. Now they have the gall to propose (fait accompli) that 5c goes on top to bail out Auckland's mess. Criminals.

Cheers Murray P

1 I must learn not to rant so often, I must learn not to rant so often, I must learn not to rant so often, I must learn not to rant so often, I must learn not to rant so often, I must learn not to rant so often......99........I must learn not to rant so often

csinclair83
11-12-2003, 05:59 PM
what about all the students at uni who have them? they get them no questions asked....
but when it comes to polytech then theres "oh too expensive" or "oh its all day we cant do that"...

i know uni students pay more but thats not the point

its getting equal education...
if i was hearing or he was, this discussion wuldnt have even need to happen...he would have just got his books, confirmed enrolment, and attended class..

but being deaf we got to have the hassle of worrying..will we or will we not have a interpreter to give us access to equal education....

godfather
11-12-2003, 06:25 PM
Chris, I would imagine the Deaf Association
http://www.deaf.co.nz/
would know the funding and rights issues.
Your point is very valid, and it may just be you need to find the right mechanism to access the funding.

Its in the countries best interest to invest in the service at this level, to make sure that the person is able to lead a productive life.

csinclair83
11-12-2003, 08:13 PM
its actually the deaf association thats arranging it with the polytech....and its them thats saying he cannot have a interpreter full day full time, and its the tech thats saying they cannot afford that...

godfather
11-12-2003, 08:39 PM
OK, that explains that bit.

Now, its time for a polite, informative letter to your local MP, asking what the Government policy is.

sam m
11-12-2003, 09:27 PM
Costs are definitely the problem. I am sure that at a personal level staff at both organisations would love to say "here go for any course and we will provide an interpreter 100% of the time", but the reality is there is

a) not enough interpreters and

b) not enough money.

Both will take a long time to rectify. We are definitely a long way behind places like Gallaudet (http://www.gallaudet.edu/choosegallaudet.htm) but the fact is we dont have the resources here to ever get to that level.
This month a bill will be introduced into the House that will start the process of making NZ Sign Language the third official language in NZ but that will not occur until 2005. This will definitely give this situation the status that is needed to ensure that an intepreter is available at all times.
Cold comfort for your friends situation now but the only thing I can think to do now is to keep pushing, it may not happen immediately but with NZSL soon to become an official language then use that arguement for your fight.

good luck
sam m

csinclair83
11-12-2003, 10:10 PM
theres not enough interpreters coz the pay aint that good i'm sure...

yeah galleaudet mmmm, how did u know about that by the way?

I think my friend is actually admitting defeat, or hes gonna threaten to pull out of the course and take them somewhere for unequal access to education...
(he cant stay on the course and take them to court as hes doing it on a student loan and yeah they dont refund that if u pull out after 2 or 3 weeks)

but for now hes emailed the ppl and see whats happening and stuff and go from there...

I thought the bill was introduced a few months back or something...but at least its finally getting somewhere...

sam m
11-12-2003, 11:27 PM
> theres not enough interpreters coz the pay aint that
> good i'm sure...

Nope, there is not enough interpreters evenly distributed around NZ. I am one of 3 qualified in the Waikato. I know there are plenty in Akl but they are all committed to education. If your friend was keen enough he could try manukau, aut or unitech as some fellow interpreters work full time there. Maybe you should contact the disability co-ordinator in those institutions as they must have obtained funding from somewhere. I have heard of interpreters being contracted to a polytech for a year on year basis to service Deaf clients wanting to attend.
>
> yeah galleaudet mmmm, how did u know about that by
> the way?

i know of people that have attended or visited there. if i ever was fortuate enough to go to the states then that would be on my MUST visit places.


> but for now hes emailed the ppl and see whats
> happening and stuff and go from there...

What polytech is he going to? I suspect that costs would be even more if he is in an area where there are no local interpreters as you would need to add travel to the equation as well and that gets expensive.

> I thought the bill was introduced a few months back
> or something...but at least its finally getting
> somewhere...

It has been a long haul. It was announced last month or so but the bill needs to be introduced then passed etc which they predict will be 2005. At that time there will be legislation that they must provide an interpreter but.............cost and availability will always be a problem. I think that even when it is passed that we will still have a problem, I hope that I am wrong.

sam m

beetle
12-12-2003, 11:15 AM
ok silly question time.

what exactly do these interprters do?

do they sign to you what is going on? or type up what is said ?
i got offered one for my studies, but i dont know sign and am only hearing impaired, (eventually wil deaf) and am now wondering how they would have helped me?
i lip read a awful lot, and am lucky we have a small lecture room with minimal outside interfernce and noise.

i am at Uni so different scenario i guess. they did offer me more reading material and paper guidence to cover the lectures. and a interprter. but felt i was not in major need of it, not realising it would have meant someone in a very real need may have missed out on the opportunity of help.


at the moment i am ploughing along fine, i find my fellow class mates a help, for when i miss a point,but am lucky enough to catch most of it,

so even though im hearing impaired am not sure of the protocol of this practice of having a interpreter in class with me.....

phone calls are the bain of my life.

sorry to butt in here Chris, but interested for my futures needs possibly.

beetle

pisceskiwi
12-12-2003, 11:43 AM
Hey ya,

Get your friend to apply for Work Bridge, he will get $16,000 a year, that would helps to pay for Interpreter, notetakers etc.

If his University where ever he going to, have support office for Deaf and Disablities, they should provide interpreter for him.

Good Luck

caffy
12-12-2003, 12:39 PM
> what exactly do these interprters do?

An qualified NZSL interpreter translates what is being spoken, into NZ Sign Language. NZSL is a language with its own grammar, syntax etc... i.e. what's spoken is not translated 'word for word'. Same goes for when a Deaf person is signing, and the interpreter voices what's being signed - its not 'word for word'.

> do they sign to you what is going on? or type up what
> is said ?

They sign - hence being called an 'interpreter' not a 'notetaker' :)

> i got offered one for my studies, but i dont know
> sign and am only hearing impaired, (eventually wil
> deaf) and am now wondering how they would have
> helped me?

It probably would not have helped you, since you don't know any Sign Language. A notetaker would have been more useful for you.

> i am at Uni so different scenario i guess.

My friends at University are all provided with an interpreter for all their classes, and in some cases a notetaker as well.

> they did
> offer me more reading material and paper guidence to
> cover the lectures. and a interprter. but felt i was
> not in major need of it, not realising it would have
> meant someone in a very real need may have missed out
> on the opportunity of help.

I would have taken up on the offer of extra paper materials to make sure I was at the same pace as the rest of the students. That happened to me in school - always offered extra material for me to read and keep up etc.

And as you said, you don't know sign language, so it would have been more stress to you to learn Sign Language as well as learn the stuff in your course.

Hope this is of useful information, if you want to know more, ask away.

Caffy

somebody
12-12-2003, 12:55 PM
http://www.hdc.org.nz/

just a bit off topic here - how has this thread become so wide (having to scroll left/right all the time)?

beetle
12-12-2003, 01:42 PM
Thanxs Cathy,

when i started my course 18 months ago, i didnt know the possible usefulness of have extra papers and helper / notetaker option would have helped me, as i have managed in the past, and was not diagnosed as such impaired till after id been through numerous other polytech and Uni training, would have helped majorly then, but not so much now, life skills have helped overcome a lot of problems.

i personally struggle with the idea i will not hear one day, i wont hear my children's laughter or my name being called or even my favourite music....

and am making the most of each and every day i have, working on the positive not the negative......

thank you for the input, and yes if i think of anything more i will ask,

actually nice to have a nice helpful person able to answer some silly basic questions, which in time i may be able to answer from past experience.


one i do have is, if you are notetaking to what is being signed, does that mean you miss lots? or do you just read / watch the sign and hope to have a notetaker or someother person in your class to share what has been written?


Muchly Appreciated.

beetle

Susan B
12-12-2003, 01:52 PM
> just a bit off topic here - how has this thread become so wide (having to scroll left/right all the time)?

Blame Murray P and his ranting. :-(


If you don't mind me going slightly off topic here, can either Chris, Sam or Caffy tell me how easy/difficult it is to learn sign language? I know it would be easier if one was able to practice with a "signer" everyday but would it be as difficult to pick up as learning another language such as French/German, etc? How long would it take for someone to be able to converse reasonably fluently with deaf people? Probably quite a long time with just weekly classes I would say, but would you be talking (or signing :p) several years at that rate or is it quicker to pick up than that?

caffy
12-12-2003, 03:05 PM
Well, there are different levels of NZSL...Level One, Level Two and Level Three if i am right - i haven't actually gone to classes, i just learnt from my deaf mates.

I think it depends on how often you go to classes, and interact with other people who sign as well. Most interpreters (and 'terp students) I know of, they often go to Deaf club, or Deaf events to polish up their signing skills, and to keep up with new signs etc.

After completing Level one I think you can have a basic conversation with a Deaf person...and your knowledge of signs and composing sentences improve greatly with each Level you complete.

One thing I find hard is remembering signs for a particular meaning. I.e one word might have multiple ways for signing it, depending on what the context is. "I like ice-cream" and "...like, for example....." - Like has two different meanings in those sentences, and therefore will be signed differently...

I am keen on going to a Deaf Studies course to learn properly about NZSL's grammar, syntax etc...even though I am Deaf, it doesn't mean I automatically know everything about NZSL :)

Anyway, I hope I haven't put anyone off from learning NZSL - it is indeed complex (just like any other language), but its a fantastic language to learn, and you also learn about the Deaf culture as well...I reckon its easier to learn NZSL than a foreign spoken language.

caffy :)

caffy
12-12-2003, 03:07 PM
> one i do have is, if you are notetaking to what is
> being signed, does that mean you miss lots? or do you
> just read / watch the sign and hope to have a
> notetaker or someother person in your class to share
> what has been written?

I did try to take my own notes at the same time as watching the interpreter but it got so difficult and it was literally impossible!! So i gave up on that and relied on asking mates for some notes.

AUT have said they will provide an interpreter and a notetaker for me, if i do courses there next year, which will take a lot of stress off me.

sam m
12-12-2003, 03:07 PM
> If you don't mind me going slightly off topic here,
> can either Chris, Sam or Caffy tell me how
> easy/difficult it is to learn sign language? I know
> it would be easier if one was able to practice with a
> "signer" everyday but would it be as difficult to
> pick up as learning another language such as
> French/German, etc?

You answered it right there, it would be just as difficult as any other language and depending on your personality it could take longer as Sign is visual and that can suppress the willingness to learn as you immediately draw attention to yourself.

How long would it take for
> someone to be able to converse reasonably fluently
> with deaf people? Probably quite a long time with
> just weekly classes I would say, but would you be
> talking (or signing :p) several years at that rate or
> is it quicker to pick up than that?

Again you answered your own question. Some people pick up languages quicker than others and unfortunately age (too much of it :p ) makes learning another language difficult as well. Regular usage is the key to learning any language and to become fluent will take a long time but it depends at what level you need to Sign. I have been signing for over 10 years. I learnt through total immersion and I use it everyday so for me it is second nature now. The levels of interpreting I can be involved in means that my skills would be way beyond what would be required for just casual conversation. The best way to learn is via night classes to get a taste and see if you want to take it further then look at more advanced classes (although can be hard to find in smaller towns) but the best way to learn is to be involved in the Deaf community.

sam m
12-12-2003, 03:23 PM
>
> I am keen on going to a Deaf Studies course to learn
> properly about NZSL's grammar, syntax etc...even
> though I am Deaf, it doesn't mean I automatically
> know everything about NZSL :)

Go for it! I believe that Deaf students should be taught in their own language and also about their own language.
Why do you think that there is a subject called "English" in schools.

> Anyway, I hope I haven't put anyone off from learning
> NZSL - it is indeed complex (just like any other
> language), but its a fantastic language to learn, and
> you also learn about the Deaf culture as well...I
> reckon its easier to learn NZSL than a foreign spoken
> language.

I second this. Well thought out and well written post Caffy. Do you mind if I ask what part of the country you are in. By the way, are they running Deaf Studies at Victoria next year? I heard it was on hold>

sam

caffy
13-12-2003, 12:02 AM
I live in Auckland now, but I grew up in Whangarei.

Deaf Studies is on hold for next year at Victoria University because the lecturers (who are married) have recently had a new baby :)

There is also a Deaf Studies course at AUT, did you know that? Run by the same people who run the Interpreters course, with some lecturers from other areas like Maori etc.

Susan B
13-12-2003, 01:21 PM
Thanks for the info Sam and Caffy. :-)

Jen C
13-12-2003, 01:46 PM
>The best way to learn is via night classes to get a taste and see if you want to take it further then look at more advanced classes (although can be hard to find in smaller towns) but the best way to learn is to be involved in the Deaf community.

I took lessons in Signing when I was at High School. It was offered free to any student interested in learning and was held in your lunchtime. My High School was located next to a major School for the Deaf, so we had students that used to attend some of our classes as well. It was quite nice to be able to communicate (very basically) with them even if it was just to say "hello" in their own language.

Unfortunately due to lack of use, I have long since forgotten it all. Was quite fun learning it though :)

Baldy
13-12-2003, 02:01 PM
At Dunedin Poly, they also provide a nappy changing service for mothers with babies that have returned to study.

Laura
14-12-2003, 02:44 AM
This is an interesting thread which has run quite a while.

Those who have the patience to keep scrolling sideways
will find that deafness has personal implications for some long-term
posters to Press F1.

For their sake, this subject matter warrants being legible.

Many of the posts here describe how to do fantastic things with computers.
So how about suggestions for a computer fix on this thread so that we can all read it...instead of putting it in the too-hard basket?

Laura
14-12-2003, 03:01 AM
Yes, I deliberately tried to keep my spacing short.

Even so, two thirds of my last line can't be found

without scrolling.

Jen C
14-12-2003, 09:43 AM
Laura

No one is deliberately entering in their text so that you have to scroll side-ways to read it.
This extra wide page is a side-effect of someone accidently using [ pre ] tags in their
post without releasing you have to enter in manual line breaks when using the tags. For standard formating,
the forum will automatically enter in line breaks for you, so that you can type away merrily knowing the end
product will fit on one screen width.

Once this oopsie has been done, it results in everyone else's posts conforming to that page width (unless, like you,
you enter in manual line breaks).

Only the mod's can fix it by editing the formatting on that post.

Nearly everyone who has used the [ pre ] tags has been caught out with this at one stage,
and I have been embarassed myself by doing this once accidently to a thread.

A wee bit of screen-ways scrolling once in a blue-moon on a thread is nothing to
complain about - think of the excercise your mouse is getting :)

Baldy
14-12-2003, 09:56 AM
Jen C

For one moment I don't think Laura was "complaining"

Her comments were quite well thought out - personally, I think sideways sceolling is one of the more annoying aspects of this forum.

Personally my mouse dosen't get the excercise. Its my fingers. And I am trying to avoid RSI !

Jen C
14-12-2003, 10:10 AM
OK, wrong choice of word then :)

The [ pre ] tags are used for entering in code (or other text) that needs to
retain the original formatting so that it can be interpretated correctly.
That is,the author's original formatting will be displayed exactly as they
entered it without the forum adding automatic line wrapping.

As you can see, when these tags are used for general text, any long paragraph
will appear as one line.

If IDG disabled this function, then people who require their coding (or whatever) to
be displayed correctly will miss out - as will the recepient of that reply.

The pre tags are used quite often for general text formatting because
as you can see, it makes the font size appear smaller than normal

-=JM=-
14-12-2003, 10:11 AM
Well I must say that I have avoided this thread completely mainly just because of the side scroll. It's not that manual line breaks aren't being added in by a user, it's more a misuse of the pre formatting tag.

Murray P
14-12-2003, 02:00 PM
It's all my fault folks :8} :8} :8}.

I did attempt to add breaks to the pre formatting but, obviously, musta left one out or cocked it up some other way. I can't tie knots too well either so that option will need to be put on hold until a bit of practice rectifies the deficiency.

Susan B made me stand (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=42462) in the corner for most of the day for my misdemeanors, what a mess, but not nearly as bad as this thread.

It is an important subject, particularly to those affected. Maybe if there is more to be said a new thread could be started with a similar topic line and a link from the last post here for navigation purposes or a slow and dirty work-a-round would be to copy and paste all the posts from this thread in to a new one with the offending post left to reside mouldering in this one.

I'll take on the task if there is a call for it.

Cheers Murray P

Laura
14-12-2003, 04:39 PM
Thanks for the explanation, Jen C.

It was interesting to find out about pre-formatting
tags & their purpose....and why shortening the
lines again wasn't just a simple matter.

And Murray P -Yes, I did register you'd spent time in
the corner (another post) but not what for.
So because you took your punishment like a man (Well, a
four-year-old one anyway), you are forgiven.

exLL
14-12-2003, 05:38 PM
For those who wish to read this thread, without having
to scroll, here is a fairly easy workaround.

It is simply copying all the threads and pasting into Notepad
(I'm using Win 98, I don't know what XP uses).
I will describe it in full for the benefit of any newbies.

I have made a keyboard shortcut to open a new Notepad file
which makes it quicker (It is Ctr+Alt+N),
you will need to open Notepad normally.
Here's what I do.

1. Select the whole thread text.
2. Press Ctr+C.
3. Press Ctr+Alt+N.
4. Press Ctr+V.
The job is done and is readable with ease in the open Notepad window.

Here is how to select the whole thread.
Either left click at the start, hold down that left button
and drag to the bottom, then release it. Or, as this takes
ages in a long thread, you can do the following instead:

Scroll to the very first thread posting and left click just to the
left of the first letter of the poster's name (in this case
just before the c in csinclair83).

Then scroll down to the very last posting (you can still use
the left mouse button to drag down the scrolling sidebar,
it doesn't affect what you are about to do), then hold down
the shift key and left click immediately to the right of the very
last letter of the final posting, (in this case it is to the right of
the full stop in the word forgiven. in Laura's post).

That will select the whole thread and it will turn blue.
2. Press Ctr+C, this will copy it to the clipboard.
3. Open your Notepad new file.
4. Press Ctr+V. That will paste it into Notepad.

It will now be readable, in plain text, with no sideways scrolling
required, but will have no emoticons showing.

I hope this may be of help to a few newbies.

Cheers. :)

Susan B
19-12-2003, 09:52 AM
Thought I would tack this info onto this thread rather than start a new one since it is sort of related....

New (?) website for hearing impaired/deaf people:

http://www.nfd.org.nz/


Actually I thought the NFD had had a website for a while but the newspaper says it is new.... ? Oh well, it looks good anyway. :-)

csinclair83
19-12-2003, 10:00 AM
i thought they used to have one but this one seems pretty cool...

anyway, the update on whats happening wif my m8 and the interpreters for his course..
they offering him first 2 weeks full time interpreters, as its orentation and 1 week of full time study, so he gets settled in and interpreter/student gets to know whats what, then after that hes getting 10 hours a week, maybe 15, but nothing more...
and hes doing 3 classes a day from 9 to 3pm so tahts 6 hours per day of classes...
and if he gets 10-15 hours a week thats 2 or 3 hours a day of interpreter support....

hes also looking at scholarships and that nfd website might come in handy as i saw something on there about them...

(and the government has 1 something billion in their coffers, cant they afford a few fulltime interpreter placings for a few thousand, wont dent the budget would it)

Mary H
19-12-2003, 11:40 AM
Hey guys,
I've edited the post, so you don't have to scroll across.


P.S. Merry Christmas to you all :)

Jen C
19-12-2003, 11:48 AM
Thanks for that Mary :)

Let me put those [ pre ] tags to good use :p
.!, .!,
~ 6 ~ ~ 6 ~
. ' i ` .-^-. ' i `
_.|,_ | | / .-. \ | |
'|` .|_|.| (-` ) | .|_|.
/ \ ___)_(_|__`-'__|__)_(______
/`,o\)_______________________o_(
/_* ~_\[___]___[___]___[___[_[\`-.
/ o .'\[_]___[___]___[___]_[___)`-)
/_,~' *_\_] [_[( (
/`. * *\_] [___\ _\
/ `~. o \] ;( ( ; [_[_]`-'
/_ * `~,_\ (( )( ;(; [___]
/ o * ~'\ /\ /\ /\ /\ [_[_]
/ * .~~' o\ ||_||_||_|| [___]
/_,.~~'` * _\_||_||_||_||___[_[_]_
/`~.. o \:::::::::::::::::::::\
/ * `'~.. * \:::::::::::::::::::::\
/_ o ``~~.,,_\=========\_/========='
/ * * ..~'\ _|_ .-_--.
/* o _..~~`'* o\ ( (_) )
`-.__.~'`' * ___.-' `----'
":-------:"
hjw \_____/

csinclair83
19-12-2003, 11:49 AM
very nice picture but wheres my present? :P