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View Full Version : false advertising,Heads will roll



metla
01-12-2003, 11:40 PM
Just picked up a copy of the December issue and the first thing I notice is a full page add for what claims to be the Best gaming system on the market. And this is from farmers no less.

Now the system is using a 64bit amd cpu but is paired with a fx5200,No matter what cpu they use in a machine a flawed badly designed under performing budget card like the fx5200 will cripple the performance to well below the standard set by high-end gaming machines.

Surely this claim shouldn't be allowed. Has to be false advertising, PC world, how about you tell Farmers to supply one of their machines so you can bench it and show them the pox that it is....

And ban them from bullshit adds such as this.

I for one will be writing off a couple letters tomorrow, One to farmers, one to whatever organization keeps an eye on advertising and one to the head chief of pcworld...Tell him to watch out for it, Chances are it will be full of spelling mistakes and he will have no idea wth im on about..............

mikebartnz
02-12-2003, 12:38 AM
You and I (not a gamer ) would never buy a top gaming machine from anyone like Farmers so that would automaticaly make the advert dodgy.

Chilling_Silently
02-12-2003, 12:49 AM
> You and I (not a gamer ) would never buy a top gaming
> machine from anyone like Farmers so that would
> automaticaly make the advert dodgy.

:D

So they're saying they offer the best one on the market... What if I take and rebuild the system they're offering, only bundle it with the newly release FX5950!?! Even the 5900/5600 Ultra's would whip the @$$ on the 5200 any day, and Im pretty sure that's regardless of 64 or 32 Bit architecture..!

What OS are they bundling with it?

metla
02-12-2003, 01:01 AM
Os is windows XP Home edition,and just above the price it says BOnus Beta version ms 64-bit OS(by redemtion,conditions apply,While stocks last)

Which is another thing i take issue with,Are they bundling it with the system or not?....what the heck is While stocks last?Do they have the right amount of copies or not?....conditions apply?...what?...The conditions could be the first 5 people get it,Besides which,its a beta version.Who the hell wants a beta version of an operating system.

One its going to full of more bugs then Galaxian and two there will be zero customer suport.


Does anyone have the link to the dream machines article published on the Pcworld site a couple months ago?...i want to use it as a point of reference in my letter to the ASA....and i can't find it.

metla
02-12-2003, 01:04 AM
Actually,i think it was Galaga that had you fighting bugs..

Chilling_Silently
02-12-2003, 01:09 AM
So the OS is only 32 Bit... So for starters there's major loss of performance there...

I'd like to see something like Gentoo on it.... run glxgears, and then we'll compare it with a 32-bit installation, how much difference is there likely to be?

metla
02-12-2003, 01:14 AM
Well yeah,But the Atholon 64 bit cpu still runs 32 bit code faster then any other cpu on the market,If the machine had a top end video card in it there claim might have some truth in it.

Doesnt make any sence to bottleneck a cpu like that with a fx5200 card,Remember these cards are out performed by the g4mx line(Dx8 performence anyway)

metla
02-12-2003, 01:20 AM
> Well yeah,But the Atholon 64 bit cpu still runs 32
> bit code faster then any other cpu on the market,If
> the machine had a top end video card in it there
> claim might have some truth in it.
>

That comment may not be true,I just looked up the orb and the top 3 places are held by intel systems,Having said that everything gets distorted seeing as the onions overclock to such extremes.

Number one on the orb is running a 3.2 p4 at 4182 MHz.

Chilling_Silently
02-12-2003, 01:30 AM
Ive seen a 3.06 HT P4 do little over 4Ghz.... That was with the beefiest every cooling system, and they didnt get WinXP Pro booted fully.... :-(

Im sure that a system running 64Bit code on a 64Bit CPU would be better than any 64Bit CPU running in 32Bit modes/emulations/whatever the heck they're calling it.

They NEED a REAL 64Bit OS before they can call it better, end of story!

</ramble>

;-)

-=JM=-
02-12-2003, 08:53 AM
> Which is another thing i take issue with,Are they
> bundling it with the system or not?....what the heck
> is While stocks last?Do they have the right amount of
> copies or not?....conditions apply?...what?...The
> conditions could be the first 5 people get it,Besides
> which,its a beta version.Who the hell wants a beta
> version of an operating system.
>
> One its going to full of more bugs then Galaxian and
> two there will be zero customer suport.

I want a beta version of it. Customer support would be there, if you find a bug MS will be glad to be told about it and will come up with a fix as fast as possible, most likely. Also it may not be that buggy in the first place, Windows ME which is generally regarded as the worst operating system MS have put out, it's betas weren't all that bad, some people think the bugs were written afterwards.

Budda
02-12-2003, 09:03 AM
well i agree that it anit that good a system with 5200 card and only 512MB of memory, but i think the claim of "best gaming" systems is by hyundi not farmers.

Barnabas
02-12-2003, 09:11 AM
I think that you will find that your complaint will get ignored as the advertisement is what is called a puff. That means that you can make claims about your product that aren't necessarily true but aren't really misleading. For example if I say that I sell the worlds best gaming computer what does that actually mean to Joe average. Not much I imagine. Its like saying I sell the worlds best apples. How do you judge what the worlds best apple is....you cant really. This is how companies get away with saying they make your clothes brighter, your smiles whiter, and your fat rolls lighter. It still seems kinda wrong but the law is a fickle beast.
All IMHO (and what I learnt in law of marketing at uni).

B.

ps if you still want to complain then the Commerce Commission is who you want to complain to, using the Fair Trading Act which contains the clause "anything which is, or could be misleading in trade".

metla
02-12-2003, 09:20 AM
Maybe i'll just walk through farmers today and glare at the staff.....



.....................HA.


For thou loaded up the Halo demo and all was good in the world...

Chilling_Silently
02-12-2003, 09:57 AM
> For thou loaded up the Halo demo and all was good in
> the world...


Hehehe....

Halo... I honestly wonder how it would compare to some other gaming systems...
The thing is, its not the best gaming system on the market.... They say it is?
Surely something more can than just glaring at the (Most likely) un-knowledgable merchants in Farmers...?

Im not dissing the Farmers dudes, Im sure they're knowledgable in _most_ things, however PC Benchmarking is something that I have even struggled with myself, and Im sure that over 95% of the persons there wouldnt have been hired on their ability to diagnose how correct a PC Benchmark was correct... ;-)

Barnabas
02-12-2003, 10:23 AM
Glaring is always a good option....and it saves on postage.

parry
02-12-2003, 11:08 AM
I agree with Barnabas about the puffery. Not as bad as some though. Ive seen shops have an "up to 50% off" sticker on goods but when you take it to the counter you find the "off" part is zero on all the 5 items I chose. Whether there were actually any goods reduced would be debateable. Quite legal because of the "up to" part and they may as well have gone the whole hog and said "up to 5 million % off". :-)

metla
02-12-2003, 11:47 AM
> well i agree that it anit that good a system with
> 5200 card and only 512MB of memory, but i think the
> claim of "best gaming" systems is by hyundi not
> farmers.

Uh...Its a farmers advert...

metla
02-12-2003, 11:50 AM
> I agree with Barnabas about the puffery. Not as bad
> as some though. Ive seen shops have an "up to 50%
> off" sticker on goods but when you take it to the
> counter you find the "off" part is zero on all the 5
> items I chose. Whether there were actually any goods
> reduced would be debateable. Quite legal because of
> the "up to" part and they may as well have gone the
> whole hog and said "up to 5 million % off". :-)


Well.I did read the info at the commerce site,And this doesn't fall under puffery,It falls under blatent false advertising.Also what you just mentiond as being quite legal because of the "upto" part is quite illigal.The commerece site is pretty clear about the ins-and-outs..

metla
02-12-2003, 11:54 AM
Bit of an edit.

Ill say IMO that these fall into the catagory i assigned them to,Im sure the commerce association will decide on wether its false adveryising or pufferey.

Barnabas
02-12-2003, 12:52 PM
All power to you Metla. I definitely agree with what you are trying to say. The day I buy the worlds fastest gaming computer from Farmers is the day that I move to the centre of Baghdad and paint I love America all over my house and have a bullseye on the roof.
B.

agent
02-12-2003, 12:58 PM
The bullseye on the roof would only serve purposeful for American bombing raids... it's not as if the Iraqi militants would get access to planes or helicopters without raiding an American base.

Barnabas
02-12-2003, 01:19 PM
Thats true, I guess I would be in more danger from friendly fire then any Iraqi militants. Maybe I should have said... the day I walk up to an American Army base in Iraq with a large trench coat on while holding up a sign saying "Not a suicide bomber".

metla
02-12-2003, 01:23 PM
Surely its too hot in iraq to wear a trenchcoat anywhere.

agent
02-12-2003, 01:32 PM
Yes; it'll probably be one of those robe-like things they wear ;)

Barnabas
02-12-2003, 01:33 PM
Ok I give up, Im just not going to buy a computer from Farmers...ok. No Iraqi militants, no Americans, no trenchcoats and no Hyundi Computers.

Thomas
02-12-2003, 02:34 PM
A little more thought on your analogies Barn,you were going in the right direction;)

Susan B
02-12-2003, 05:13 PM
> Chances are it will be full of spelling mistakes and he will have no idea wth im on about..............

How about I volunteer my services as a proof reader, free in exchange for the entertainment factor? Unless you actually want to provide them with free entertainment. :p :D


> Maybe i'll just walk through farmers today and glare at the staff.....

And the poor people will have no idea what they have done to deserve that. :D

You would be better off standing outside Farmers with a protest placard but don't forget to tip off the local press first. :p :D

Chilling_Silently
02-12-2003, 06:48 PM
This is a call to Juha>
Any chance of a Benchmark between it if you happen to be lucky enough to have one in the PCW Test Room?

Scott even?

Cheers


Chill.

MrBeef
02-12-2003, 08:06 PM
Hyundai should stick to Cars.

Mike
02-12-2003, 08:09 PM
&gt; claims to be the Best gaming system on the market.
&gt;
&gt; Surely this claim shouldn't be allowed. Has to be
&gt; false advertising, PC world, how about you tell
&gt; Farmers to supply one of their machines so you can
&gt; bench it and show them the pox that it is....
&gt;
&gt; And ban them from bullshit adds such as this.

One key point you seem to have missed. They have protected themselves in the add by using the words "... on the market". It may not be the best gaming machine money can buy, but how many better gaming machines can you buy pre-built (ie not custom designed etc.)? Probably not many (if any).

And more than likely, Farmers would consider the "market" to be their direct competition, which wouldn't include your local computer stores - it'd include Noel Leeming, Dick Smith, and nationwide computer chains, none of which tend to sell machines like the one Farmers is advertising.

You might well be able to go and buy parts and build a better gaming machine (probably for close to the same price), but it won't be a machine that's currently on the market, therefore it doesn't void Farmers' advertisement.

The "standard set by high-end gaming machines" will more than likely have been set by custom machines rather than off the shelf models like the Farmers model. On top of that, the FX5200 would probably out-perform most other graphics cards in pre-built machines out there, most of which would perform more than adequately on the latest games.

Mike.

Chilling_Silently
02-12-2003, 10:28 PM
I'd like to see how the system that TL Sytems offer on page 20 of the PCW stacks up against it... I'll ring 'em tomorrow!

metla
02-12-2003, 10:40 PM
> > claims to be the Best gaming system on the
> market.
> >
> > Surely this claim shouldn't be allowed. Has to
> be
> > false advertising, PC world, how about you tell
> > Farmers to supply one of their machines so you
> can
> > bench it and show them the pox that it is....
> >
> > And ban them from bullshit adds such as this.
>
> One key point you seem to have missed. They have
> protected themselves in the add by using the words
> "... on the market". It may not be the best gaming
> machine money can buy, but how many better gaming
> machines can you buy pre-built (ie not custom
> designed etc.)? Probably not many (if any).
>
> And more than likely, Farmers would consider the
> "market" to be their direct competition, which
> wouldn't include your local computer stores - it'd
> include Noel Leeming, Dick Smith, and nationwide
> computer chains, none of which tend to sell machines
> like the one Farmers is advertising.
>
> You might well be able to go and buy parts and build
> a better gaming machine (probably for close to the
> same price), but it won't be a machine that's
> currently on the market, therefore it doesn't void
> Farmers' advertisement.
>
> The "standard set by high-end gaming machines" will
> more than likely have been set by custom machines
> rather than off the shelf models like the Farmers
> model. On top of that, the FX5200 would probably
> out-perform most other graphics cards in pre-built
> machines out there, most of which would perform more
> than adequately on the latest games.
>
> Mike.

uh,...No,i didnt overlook it at all,a p4 3.2 with an ati 9800pro will spank there system,and theres plenty available to buy.And that qualifies as the market..ie-Available to purchase.Most vendors have a Power machine on there books.

Theres even a couple machines tested in the latest pcworld that have the 64 bit cpu and a better video card.


Pure and simple,There claim is an out right lie.

agent
03-12-2003, 12:16 AM
Let's go on a false marketing campaign!

While we're attempting to shutdown such blatant lies in the world of PC advertising, why not shut it all down? Supermarkets, hardware stores ("lowest prices guaranteed"), bookstores, department stores...

The point is, hardly anyone would care, and I'm sure Farmers would have had their marketing company make sure there was absolutely no way that they could be had up for making that statement. Or else someone is running a very stupid marketing company...

metla
03-12-2003, 12:23 AM
Agent,there is already a false marketing campaign,its called the commerce commisson,and they deal with constant breaking of the LAWS by all size companies.

Including orginisations much larger then farmers.

Obviously people do care,Thats why we have the Commerce commision.

And i for one would care very much if i bought something promoted as the Most powerful gaming machine on the market only to find out later its a crippled beast.

Chilling_Silently
03-12-2003, 12:47 AM
> And i for one would care very much if i bought
> something promoted as the Most powerful gaming
> machine on the market only to find out later its a
> crippled beast.

And that's just what the FX5200 would make it.... A 5600 Ultra or 5900 (putting the newly released 5950 aside for a moment here) and you would cut the mustard, but otherwise you're being sold short!!

-=JM=-
03-12-2003, 07:39 AM
> Agent,there is already a false marketing campaign,its
> called the commerce commisson,and they deal with
> constant breaking of the LAWS by all size companies.

Have you seen them go after Telecom recently? No, because Telecom is too big/important for them to do that.

mark.p
03-12-2003, 08:05 AM
> > Agent,there is already a false marketing
> campaign,its
> > called the commerce commisson,and they deal with
> > constant breaking of the LAWS by all size
> companies.
>
> Have you seen them go after Telecom recently? No,
> because Telecom is too big/important for them to do
> that.

Exactly. Also applies to other biggies in the computing industry. Hell one company thats been found having conducted illigel practices through out the globe hasn't been suitably taken to task over its actions. And we all know who that is ;)

Dolby Digital
03-12-2003, 09:03 AM
There are lies, lies and marketing :D

There seems to be alot of airlines advertising one way fares. I disagree with this as how many people fly one way (and anyway is a return fare double a one way fare - normally no).*

* Special conditions apply. You must sit on the wing to get this fare.

Chilling_Silently
03-12-2003, 09:05 AM
> There are lies, lies and marketing :D

There's a difference between the two?????

]:)

Carnie
04-12-2003, 12:31 AM
"what the heck is While stocks last?"

I think thats refering to the expected supply problems of the cpu rather than the os. Apperently amd is not going to be able to meet demand until next year.

Offering the beta of the 64bit version of XP is pretty good as there isnt going to be a retail release until late next year, and they could just lump you with the 32 bit and say tough.

I read a benchmark comparing the latest chips, unmodded and the amds matched if not beat the P4's, less some of the features that 64bit offers.

I think if you want a 64bit cpu, this would be one of the only ways to get one, especially with the rumoured supply problems.

Or you could pay something like this (i think theyre about the same):

Intel Pentium 4 3.2Ghz Extreme (800Mhz FSB) CPU $2,545.00 (NZD)

How much are they asking??

mikebartnz
04-12-2003, 04:39 AM
You are assaming that they did benchmark it. I doubt it!

mikebartnz
04-12-2003, 04:56 AM
You are not talking about Linux are you :D

Thomas
04-12-2003, 08:08 AM
http://www20.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20031201/index.html

Greville
08-12-2003, 12:18 AM
Just an aside...

Some companies especially airlines and banks are constantly getting fined by the commerce commision for misleading staements in their ads.

However when that happens they just change the ad's, with the average consumer being non the wiser. The only reason I found out about it is that there was a article in Consumer magazine.

I think a better deterant would be having to pay for a series of ads retracting your previous statement that rane for the same amount of time and in the same time slots as the original ad you got pulled up for.

As for the Farmers ad, they will have just reprinted material given to them by hyundai to use with ads...

mark.p
08-12-2003, 07:22 AM
Nice to see a retail chain offering a 64-bit system, that can run todays 32bit apps/os, to the market. It forces the hand of Intel/MS to hurry up with there offerings/ promises of 64-bit computing. And I'll be able to buy a P4 4gz for next to nothing next year he he.