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View Full Version : Networking problem, still.



Poppa John
30-11-2003, 07:40 PM
I recently posted a thread, "Desktop + Printer Problems", which I did not resolve. Perhaps we could try again??
Main comp is XP Sigma, slave is W98se Dell. They are networked & Partially work ok. The printers are both connected to the XP, Canon & Epson. They both work off the XP but neither off the 98. I deleted both printers from the 98 & re-installed them, still no go.
I Pinged each comp from the other & OK. Both comps can access the Internet. The LAN connection is establishing OK.
When I go into the Dell Network Neighbourhood, I cannot find the Sigma computer, so that it can be "Shared" with the 98. I assume that because the Dell cannot find the Sigma, that there is no access to the printers from the 98??
How can I put the Sigma back onto the Dell. Please. PJ

stu140103
30-11-2003, 07:58 PM
> When I go into the Dell Network Neighbourhood, I
> cannot find the Sigma computer,

Do you mean on the Xp computer you cant see the 98 computers???

What do you mean by:
>so that it can be "Shared" with the 98

Do you mean so you can share the win XP files??? Or 98 files etc ( eg printers)???

> I assume that because the Dell
> cannot find the Sigma, that there is no access to the printers from the 98??

Yeath, I think so

Sorry for the silly question, I just want some thing clarify some things.

Also where in NZ are you??? Just in case they is another Pf1 member nearby who could come over & have a look as well :)

Poppa John
30-11-2003, 08:08 PM
Stu.I want the 98 to "See" the XP so that it can access the XP "C" drive. Not imperative for the XP to go into the 98. It is printing from the 98 I am trying to achieve.
I am in Wanganui & there is a Proffessional PF1er nearby. He has to make a living & I will not ask for a freebie, which is why I am here. PJ

Elephant
30-11-2003, 08:09 PM
> > When I go into the Dell Network Neighbourhood, I
> > cannot find the Sigma computer,
>
> Do you mean on the Xp computer you cant see the 98
> computers???
>
> What do you mean by:
> >so that it can be "Shared" with the 98
>
> Do you mean so you can share the win XP files??? Or
> 98 files etc ( eg printers)???
>
> > I assume that because the Dell
> > cannot find the Sigma, that there is no access to
> the printers from the 98??
>
> Yeath, I think so
>
> Sorry for the silly question, I just want some thing
> clarify some things.
>
> Also where in NZ are you??? Just in case they is
> another Pf1 member nearby who could come over & have
> a look as well :)

Well I think that the poster lives in Wanganui where I used to live.
Wanganui East. I used to live in Maketu St and I have noticed my old Primary School has changed heaps. I would suggest you invite Metla to go look.

Sorry Metla. I'd gp look myself but I happen tp live quite a few miles North of there.

Gorela
30-11-2003, 08:14 PM
Hi Poppa John,

You will need to enable "Sharing" on both of the printers. You will need to do this on the XP Sigma computer. ;) You will also probably need to create the same user on the 98se Dell as you have on the XP Sigma.

A start, anyway :)

Elephant
30-11-2003, 08:17 PM
I read your original post quit a few times but I am a little confused.

It would appear to me that the local network works and then it doesn't work?

When using the XP can you see the 98?

Is the XP computer hard drive formatted with NTFS?

Poppa John
30-11-2003, 08:21 PM
Gorela... Sharing is ticked for both printers on the XP, & was done on both on the 98.
Your second sentence seems to be the problem in that Sigma comp does not appear in the98 Neigh. PJod

Poppa John
30-11-2003, 08:27 PM
Elephant. The Local Network (LAn or LAC) stays connected whilst both comps are "ON".
Neither comp can see the other on screen, yet each will Ping the other.
Don't know what NTFS is. PJ

JohnD
30-11-2003, 08:47 PM
Setting up a Windows peer to peer LAN "should" be as simple as:
1. Installing and configuring TCP/IP (done as you can ping each machine).
2. Install Client for MS Networks
3. Ensuring that both PCs are set to the same workgroup.
4. Make sure file and print sharing is enabled.
5. Actually share something.

Make sure that you login properly - you have to with the WinXP PC to get in - you also have to on the Win98 PC if you want networking to work.

JohnD
30-11-2003, 08:51 PM
You will need to login to the Win98 PC with a login name and password that exists on the WinXP PC.

Poppa John
30-11-2003, 09:22 PM
John D. Your 1 to 4 is correct, your No5, They are sharing the internet access, somehow & that is all.

Login. Both XP & 98 have login passwords to "Get Into" the comps. They are different as they are for each m/c. Before this it was not necessary for the 98 to have password access to the XP, it worked ok before. WE do have tgo thro the Neighbourhood & that was all. Now the Sigma Icon/Logo does not appear there. PJ

Pheonix
30-11-2003, 09:32 PM
Your IP address on each computer exactly the same apart from the last number in the series?

For example:-
XP 198.162.1.1
98 198.162.1.2

Poppa John
30-11-2003, 09:38 PM
Pheonix..As per example, YES. First three blocks are different to yours, but are identical on the XP & 98. PJ

Pheonix
30-11-2003, 09:49 PM
thats OK.......back to the drawing board :D

Jester
30-11-2003, 10:08 PM
> John D. Your 1 to 4 is correct, your No5, They are
> sharing the internet access, somehow & that is all.

PJ

For No 5, Go to windows explorer, select a folder you want to share, and select 'sharing', then put a tick next to 'share this folder on the network'.

Do this for any XP machine folders you wish to access with the win98 PC.

This will allow them to be seen in windows explorer on the win98 PC.

Do the same with the Printer. Start, Settings, Printers & faxes .... right click printer and select 'sharing'.

> Login. Both XP & 98 have login passwords to "Get
> Into" the comps. They are different as they are for
> each m/c. Before this it was not necessary for the
> 98 to have password access to the XP, it worked ok
> before. WE do have tgo thro the Neighbourhood & that
> was all. Now the Sigma Icon/Logo does not appear
> there. PJ

Yep, you are right there, no need to have a password to 'log on' to the other PC, unless you set one up via 'sharing', as above.

J

Jester
30-11-2003, 10:10 PM
Correction:

For No 5, Go to windows explorer, select a folder you want to share, and select 'sharing', then put a tick next to 'share this folder on the network'

Should read

For No 5, Go to windows explorer, select a folder you want to share, right click it and select 'sharing', then put a tick next to 'share this folder on the network' ps sharing the 'root' (ie all of the C drive) is generally not recommended for security reasons

J
:D

Spacemannz
01-12-2003, 04:52 PM
Since drivers are installed. Did you go to Control Panel Printers/Faxes. and "share" the printer itself on the XP PC? That would be why
it wont appear on the 98 my network/neighbourhood.

Also to make things easier, Open My Computer/Tools/Folder Options/
View/Use simple file sharing. Then you wont need a password for the 98 PC (I don't think it needs a password for printer, only for the sharing of a folder). Also having NTFS on one hard drive and FAT /FAT 32 on a totally
different PC, makes no difference on a network. They'll read each other
on a network. It's only, if you have NTFS and FAT/FAT 32 on the SAME
hard drive you'll have problems. Since 98 can't read NTFS. BUT XP/2000 can read both FAT/FAT 32 and NTFS.

Poppa John
02-12-2003, 09:12 AM
Spacemannnz. Have tried what you suggested & still cannot see theSigma comp onthe Dell network Neighbourhood.

Everybody... This problem is not resolved. We are giving it away now. Not worth the frustration. Thanks for all the help,


End of Topic. PJ

Susan B
02-12-2003, 03:51 PM
I can understand your frustration but it would be a real shame to give up PJ. :-(


> Don't know what NTFS is.

It is the type of file system used. Go to Start>Control Panel>Administrative Tools>Computer Management>Disk Management and have a look at what it says in there. Are your drives labelled as FAT32 or NTFS?

godfather
02-12-2003, 04:13 PM
Please people, don't confuse PJ regarding the file type (NTFS vs FAT32) as a possible problem for the loss of the networking. Its not relevant.
Network software layers within Windows makes these things totally automatic and transparent, there is no need to raise it as a possible cause.

There cannot be much wrong, networking used to work for PJ and Maryann, its something simple I would predict. Its certainly not hardware as Internet Connection Sharing works.

Until XP appears in the Network Neighbourhood, of the 98 machine (and vice versa) the printers will be out of reach, PJ. While you are not worried about the network working back from the XP to the 98, it will need to in order that the printer can communicate. As soon as it works in one direction, it should work both ways.

My understanding is PJ, that you will need a log-in on the XP with Maryanns name and password exactly the same as exists on the 98 machine. The log in must exist, it should not be required that she actually log in on XP though.

Remember, try one thing at a time. Reboot after each change.

Jen C
02-12-2003, 05:54 PM
Hi Poppa John

Out of curiosity, what happens when you open up Network Neighbourhood in the Win98 machine and then use the search function to find networked computers? You can search by whatever you called your XP machine.

When I had WinME networked with XP, one stage for whatever reasons, XP would no longer appear under the Network Neighbourhood until I searched for it. It didn't matter how long I waited for ME to pick up the network connection, it never appeared. Once "found", I could access the shared folders/printer with no problem.

Poppa John
02-12-2003, 07:28 PM
Everyone... OK OK I won't concede yet. Thanks for your concern PJ


GF Para 2.. Yes networking did & partially does still work. How elsr could M access the I/net.
I agree, until the Sigma (XP) appears on the Dell (98) Network neighbourhood, then the Sigma is inaccessible.

Yhis whole thing started some weeks ago. Turned both M/cs off correctly one night, next day turned them on & the XP desktop was "rearranged" & we had "lost" the printers on the 98 Also the Sigma connection. I think this is the crux of the problem.

Re your Para 4, Passwords etc. Are you able to "Step" me thro this part of the setup?? PJ

Poppa John
02-12-2003, 07:32 PM
Jen C. Have done the "Search" as you suggest, but Sigma not found.

Incidetly. When trying to get a printer from the 98, the message always comes up as "Communication Error" which it would if the 98 cannot see the XP. PJ

stu140103
02-12-2003, 09:04 PM
PJ:

On the xp computer do you have a "guest " account on it?
If Not Make one & see what happens

I have a funny felling that might work after you have the guest account, if that does not work then back to the drawing boards I go :D

grambo
03-12-2003, 11:24 PM
I recently set up two separate networks with Win98 and WinXP systems. Don't claim to know it all, far from it! What I will do is list things I had to double/triple check to get things going and also some of the mistakes I made.
Checklist
- IP addresses, must be different, but same subnet
- Computer name(s) ,must be different
- Workgroup name, must be exactly the same
- Protocol, same NetBIOS protocol must be installed on all systems
(NetBUI, TCP/IP or IPC/SPX. Note NetBUI is not supported in WinXP)
- File & Printer Sharing, must be enabled
- Something (Folder or Printer), must be shared on all systems... I think!
- Same logon/password, must be setup on all systems
My Mistakes
- Had a software firewall running
- Logon not exactly the same on both systems
- Nothing shared on one system, sharing was enabled
- NetBIOS (over TCP/IP) was disabled on WinXP system

I have just set up another network this evening between Win98 and WinXP systems without a problem. Win XP was a clean install using all defaults.

Also check out the following;
http://fhctech.org/fhc/networking/testing.htm, including the links to MS Knowledge Base Articles

Keep trying and Good Luck, you will get there in the end.
G

Chilling_Silently
03-12-2003, 11:44 PM
Good on ya PJ for sticking with it!
Im agreeing with some of what Godfather and JohnD are saying....

Bloody WinXP and its networking.. I remember back in the days of Win98 to Win98 Networking where it was "Write access for Everybody" or "Read-Only access for everybody".. Or for the larger part of it!


Can we just set this straight for all the others offering advice about subnets and ip addressing:
THE PC'S ARE SHARING THE NET!

This means that the TCP/IP Connection has been established and is working, DNS Resolution works, Subnets are matching.

Things to check:
Login to Win98 Method
Workgroup
User Permissions

Lets start with 1:
Right-Click on Network Neighbourhood in your Dell (Win98) machine and choose properties
Make SURE it says Login for Microsoft Networks (or something to that effect.. its been a while since Ive used doze, let along 98 sorry PJ). Chances are its set to this already seeing as Internet Sharing is working :-)



2. Next, check the Workgroup Settings
If you still have the Network Properties open in Win98, click the second tab along up the top. IIRC, This is where you specify the workgroup. Make it MSHOME, as XP Defaults to this IIRC after running the network Wizard.

Now, moving onto your WinXP PC (Sigma):
Right-click on My Computer and choose Properties
I _think_ its the second tab along from the left (Can somebody with WinXP confirm please?) that has the settings for your PC's Workgroup. Click that and make sure its set to MSHOME, the same as Dell.


3. Permissions
Passwords, Passwords, Passwords... You MUST have them coz it'll throw a wobbly without them.

On your XP machine still, Click Start, and if there is an Image up the top of the start menu then click it and skip the next line.
If not, then Open up the Control Panel and choose User Accounts
Click the Home button up the top-left of the window that has just appeared
Make a new user, call it:
Network
Just for now... You can remove this user later, but please just bear with me on this. Make sure you take not of how you spell it coz Im pretty sure Usernames are CaSe SeNsItIvE.
Add a password for the user "Network" and make this password (for now) "password". Do it all lower-case to keep things simple, please. Make this user an Administrator too please :-)

Next, goto the Win98 machine and click Start
Logout
Now, type in the Username field:
Network
in the password field, type:
password

Click Okay and it will ask you to confirm your password for the new user, type it in again (Make sure you've got the username and password correct and CasE SenSItiVE, as this is the biggest failure point).

Now that you've logged into the Win98 PC as "Network", you should be able to open up Internet Explorer (I say this because some people have the Address Bar in Explorer/My Computer hidden) and type:
\\Sigma\C$\

This will look for the PC named Sigma (Which is what your XP Host/Gateway/Printer-server is called, correct!?), and will use the hidden share of the C:\ Drive for Administrators.

Let me know how you get on and/or post back for clarification :-)

Hope this helps.

Trust me, it IS worth it when you get it working in the end!!! Just have faith!

Cheers


Chill.

Chilling_Silently
03-12-2003, 11:47 PM
Oh, and another thing (Not neccesarily for PJ - You dont need to take notice of this just in case it adds to the confusion):
File Sharing does NOT have to be enabled for the Win98 PC to see another machine on a LAN!
It will quite happily take files from it without question (if everything is setup as I have just mentioned).

File & Printer Sharing in Win9x is only if the Win9x machine is DOING the sharing.

Just thought I'd point this out ;-)

Cheers


Chill.

Chilling_Silently
03-12-2003, 11:53 PM
> ps sharing the 'root' (ie all of
> the C drive) is generally not recommended for
> security reasons

Oh really? Might want to fire off an email to Mr. Gates coz he doesnt know this....
All HDD's/Partitions are shared by default in Win2K/XP (Probably NT4 come to think of it too) as:
C$
Where C is the Drive letter.

Try it yourself if you have XP/2K:
Open up My Computer or Internet Explorer
In the Address bar, type:
\\Your_PC_Name_Here\C$\

It should give you your C: drive ;-)

Try:
Bill_gates@microsoft.com ;-)


Chill.

Jester
04-12-2003, 11:51 AM
> Oh really? Might want to fire off an email to Mr.
> Gates coz he doesnt know this....
> All HDD's/Partitions are shared by default in
> Win2K/XP (Probably NT4 come to think of it too) as:
> C$
> Where C is the Drive letter.
>
> Try it yourself if you have XP/2K:
> Open up My Computer or Internet Explorer
> In the Address bar, type:
> \\Your_PC_Name_Here\C$\
>
> It should give you your C: drive ;-)
>
> Try:
> Bill_gates@microsoft.com ;-)
>
>
> Chill.

But isn't thats sharing on my PC, which I am logged into at the moment? So of course I can access the C Drive?

I cannot access the kids' PC on the network, that way, if I disable sharing of the C drive on thier PC.

When you share the root, you get this notice ...
screenshot (http://www.splatty.orcon.net.nz/sharing.jpg)


J
:D

Chilling_Silently
04-12-2003, 12:26 PM
Im pretty sure its still sharing it isnt it?

It doesnt matter if its on the same PC or not, the essence is really that its shared ;-)

Theres a few other shares like IPC$, and about 5 others that are shared by default... Cant remember them for the life of me though sorry ;-)

If you have WinXP Pro, you can right-click on My Computer and choose Manage
There's some settings in there you can look arond at AFAIK that'll show you just what these shares (includding hidden ones) are :-)

Poppa John
04-12-2003, 07:39 PM
Have taken note of all the suggestions (Chill) will attempt them in a day or two when my brain is clear again. Carrying pain is not conducive to clear thinking. Back soon & Thanks. PJ