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hamstar
06-10-2003, 03:56 PM
They've done it again. Proposed to eventually single our computing choices down to one company. Them. I read in this months PC World that they are proposing to Intel and AMD that they make chips that run only microsoft and microsoft certified program. Can they get around another monopolising charge for this? I mean this would seriously suck. But is it possible. It would mean no more LINUX. And you would have to be severely strict, no mods for messenger. No KaZaA or DC.

Surely there would be an uproar in the non MS and modder communities. This is a scary thought.

I don't want MS spying on me. What if I want to look up pornography or learn how to grow dope. Even learn how to crack a program. What if I don't want to insert my CD every time I want to play a game.

Ahh maybe that privacy article just got me paranoid. Please someone tell me I'm wrong.

And I suggest you get a copy of this months PC World to read if you haven't already. Very interesting.

:-( :_(

nembathekid
06-10-2003, 04:20 PM
what are you talking about? This could well be the best thing ever to happen to computers!

Linux would be alive (Linux for PPC processors) And everyone would be forced to turn to Apples, and microsoft would die, and the computing world would be cleansed of most of their evil!

stu140103
06-10-2003, 04:22 PM
> And I suggest you get a copy of this months PC World
> to read if you haven't already. Very interesting.

Do you mean September 2003??? What page???

TonyF
06-10-2003, 04:24 PM
> Ahh maybe that privacy article just got me paranoid.
> Please someone tell me I'm wrong.

Fancy being grumpy about those nice amiable folks at Redmond ! Shame !

Dolby Digital
06-10-2003, 04:34 PM
I haven't read the article concerned, but is it "Trusted Computing"? Sounds a bit like it to me. You see if its not Microsoft you can't trust it. Microsoft will only allow their stuff to run on your machine (which is extremely nice of them) but you will have to pay, pay and then pay some more for the privilege. So sit back and enjoy the ride. No more virus'es, illegally copied software, games, cd's, dvd's. The world will be a much better place :D

hamstar
06-10-2003, 07:54 PM
>Do you mean September 2003??? What page???

Nah the October Issue. Its the Privacy article or the Trusted Computing one like Dolby Said.

Scary isn't it...

PoWa
06-10-2003, 10:02 PM
Nobody will buy into that crap. The palladium morons (Microsoft, AMD and Intel) will all die, and everyone will be either running older chips or they'll switch over to mac. So yeah kinda good, it'll kill off MS. :)

hamstar
07-10-2003, 03:39 PM
>it'll kill off MS

YAY!!! :D

agent
07-10-2003, 04:46 PM
Survival of the fittest, they say.

Rubbish, I say.

Chilling_Silently
07-10-2003, 05:33 PM
But people said they'd never agree to let MS download software without them knowing.. Who actually read the EULA of Win2K SP4, or Windows Media Player 9?

If you havent, I suggest you go do so as there is a part that covers them doing that!


People will never agree... or people wont know they're agreeing?!

agent
07-10-2003, 05:51 PM
I've read the EULA's on a fair few of Microsoft's products.

All that's happened so far is me being extremely picky with my firewall rules. For example, Windows Media Player isn't even allowed to access the internet, and I don't use Automatic Updates, and I've toyed around with MSN Messenger firewall rules until I've got the bare essential connections allowed only.

A bit of sense plus some good utilities can keep snoops at bay...

segfault
07-10-2003, 08:16 PM
> Nobody will buy into that crap. The palladium morons
> (Microsoft, AMD and Intel) will all die, and everyone
> will be either running older chips or they'll switch
> over to mac. So yeah kinda good, it'll kill off MS.
> :)

Sadly most computer users aren't smart enough to realise what this stuff is really all about. I think that it will be marketed to them as some kind of way to avoid viruses and worms.

What will you do if you apply for a job and the company wants your CV in Word 2010 format but you don't have Word 2010 because it requires Windows 2010, which only runs on hardware trusted by MS?

The most obvious way around this to me is open hardware. I know there are already some open hardware designs out there and when combined with nanotechnology, we could eventually end up making our own hardware (as I understand it anyway).

Mzee
07-10-2003, 09:18 PM
You people are a joke!
You slag off Microsoft but the fact remains that if you have to get on with some work, you use Microsoft.

I spent a lot of time trying Linux (several versions), & came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time as a Desk Top. ( Very good for servers etc)
Lousy software, lousy fonts, difficult to operate & setup, takes too long to boot up etc etc.

The only other systems of any note, are OS2 by IBM which died through lack of software support, and Apple.

PoWa
07-10-2003, 09:29 PM
>You people are a joke!
>You slag off Microsoft but the fact remains that if you have to get on with some work, you use Microsoft.

Well their Trusted Computing idea is plain rubbish. If you can't see that, and the consequences of it then I suggest you do some more reading.

Chilling_Silently
07-10-2003, 09:32 PM
> You people are a joke!
> You slag off Microsoft but the fact remains that if
> you have to get on with some work, you use
> Microsoft.

josiah@AMD1700:~$ uname -a
Linux AMD1700 2.4.22 #6 Tue Sep 2 17:43:01 PDT 2003 i686 unknown unknown GNU/Linux

Apparently by 2005, Linux will be on well over 10% of home PC's in the Asia-Pacific region!

> I spent a lot of time trying Linux (several
> versions), & came to the conclusion that it was a
> waste of time as a Desk Top. ( Very good for servers
> etc)
> Lousy software, lousy fonts, difficult to operate &
> setup, takes too long to boot up etc etc.

Okay, I'll let you have that one.. But only for the time being... Ever try Mandrake Linux? Chances are when you booted your PC, you were running OpenSSH, Apache, Squid (maybe), Samba, Sendmail, Bind, not to mention an array of other servers... Did you need them all? I doubt it...
Specialized Distro's are on the way.. just give it time..


;-)

segfault
08-10-2003, 08:24 AM
> You people are a joke!
> You slag off Microsoft but the fact remains that if
> you have to get on with some work, you use
> Microsoft.

I'd be interested to know where you got that from. I've been a full time GNU/Linux user for almost 2 years now and I have never had to use windows to "get on with some work". What does it mean to "get on with some work" anyway? I have no problems emailing people or browsing the internet, but I don't know whether you would consider that "work". If what you said is true, why are businesses switching to Linux on the desktop at an ever increasing rate?

> I spent a lot of time trying Linux (several
> versions), & came to the conclusion that it was a
> waste of time as a Desk Top. ( Very good for servers
> etc)
> Lousy software, lousy fonts, difficult to operate &
> setup, takes too long to boot up etc etc.

You don't seem to understand how open source development works. If you don't like it, do something about it! Nothing is going to happen with you being an armchair critic. I email open source software developers when I see something I would like changed or improved and more often than not they are quite nice about it.

I find your comments hard to believe.

"Lousy software":
I'm sure that there is some software out there that is lousy, but there is a lot of very good software for GNU/Linux (I personally haven't come across any lously software yet!). It is quite hard to reply to this comment without knowing what software you are talking about, but I will give you the example of Apache, which runs 64.61% and climbing at the last count.

"Lousy fonts":
Again. without knowing which fonts you are talking about, this is hard to rebut. There are some perfectly good fonts that are just as good, if not better than MS fonts here (http://www.gnome.org/fonts/). It doesn't take much work to get them to work with a distro that doesn't include them, although they are usually included on most distros now.

"Difficult to operate & setup":
Again, your statement is very vague and I'm not sure what you are talking about. Were you trying to set up a winmodem or trying to set up network authentication with LDAP and Kerberos? Anyway, I find this hard to believe. I have had the privilege of helping out at 2 Linux installfests and I have installed Linux on a large variety of hardware. The biggest problem people have is with partitioning. For the rest of it, I could have just about left them to do it by themselves. The winmodems were very easy to set up - I had the rpm's on disc and they worked out of the box.

"Takes too long to boot":
Okay, this can be true. If you are running things such as OpenSSH, Apache, MySQL then you can't expect it to start up very quick. This can be fixed quite easily by turning off services that start at bootup. I can't remember how long my boot time is, but its not really important because the uptime of my machine is so good that I don't boot it often. It does boot quite quick however.

I agree that Linux is great for servers, but I also think that its great for desktops too. I've been using Linux on the desktop for as long as I've been using Linux, and its not all that hard. So maybe we aren't a joke?

mark.p
08-10-2003, 10:08 AM
"The only other systems of any note, are OS2 by IBM which died through lack of software support, and Apple."

OS/2 is not dead young man-it is seeing a bit of a revilal in Europe via eComstation- and one can do a LOT of work using Linux! The old hard to install, crappy font line is getting very long in the tooth nowdays too I might add. Just recently did an install of an older Red Hat distro(RH7.3) and everything ran real smooth-using WindowMaker as my default user window manager becease I like its clean layout. I just installed OpenOffice.org this mourning -it ownloaded nicely overnight on my dialup connection. Using tools such as apt and synaptic make installing programs a breeze for us newbies and doing a little reading on Linux helps a lot. Its differant than the MS offerings but deffinately does make a good desktop OS.

agent
08-10-2003, 02:37 PM
Just a useless piece of information:

on a clean install of Windows ME, it takes less than a second between the time you tell it to shutdown and the time the computer turns off (if you have ATX) :D

Anyway, I'm thinking I might boot into MDK soon and turn off a few startup services...

flyer590
08-10-2003, 02:45 PM
> the fact remains that if you have to get on with some work, you use Microsoft.

Really? At the moment I am doing an Economics survey for school using Linux, and OpenOffice is great for making tables, graphs, etc. I have used Linux on my desktop for over a year now and I find it fantastically flexible compared to Windows. Most of the software I use works well, the fonts look great and it is easy to setup. And long boot times? About a month ago I made a Linux From Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org) system that booted in under 25 seconds.

Chilling_Silently
08-10-2003, 09:51 PM
> Linux From
> Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org) system that booted in under 25 seconds.

What's that running on? I boot slack 9.1 in 19 on my Athlon XP 1700+

flyer590
09-10-2003, 05:00 PM
That was running on a 1.3 GHz Celeron.

agent_24
09-10-2003, 08:24 PM
MACINTOSH FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LONG LIVE THE MACS

agent
09-10-2003, 10:17 PM
Unless Apple enters into the whole crap TCPA thing Microsoft might find a way to weedle them out of the picture... crappy Intel, AMD, Microsoft, US gov, etc...

Chilling_Silently
09-10-2003, 10:29 PM
If they stop around the current 3.5Ghz range in favor of ONLY MS-Compat stuff.. I can forsee new chip vendors arising, not to mention Cluster computing becoming more popular :D

PoWa
09-10-2003, 11:35 PM
> If they stop around the current 3.5Ghz range in favor of ONLY MS-Compat stuff.. I can forsee new chip vendors arising, not to mention Cluster computing becoming more popular :D

Superb point there Chill. Instead of getting the latest processor, I'll just buy lots of old ones and connect em up.

agent
10-10-2003, 06:07 AM
But would the jurisdictional governments (;)) like the idea that there are people whose computers they don't have control over?

hamstar
13-01-2004, 12:25 PM
>But would the jurisdictional governments (;-)) like the idea that there are people whose computers they don't have control over?

Probably not... but heres some stuff on TCPA...

http://www.notcpa.org

http://www.trustedcomputing.org

Billy T
13-01-2004, 02:20 PM
Oh for heaven's sakes guys. Why dredge up last year's paranoia to add to the more recent wild and woolly efforts. Boring and very close to being OT.

What's the matter? Is it a slow post day? Are there not enough real problems to help people with? Turn your face toward the sun.

Give us a break.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :|

Baldy
13-01-2004, 05:13 PM
> Oh for heaven's sakes guys. Why dredge up last
> year's paranoia to add to the more recent wild and
> woolly efforts. Boring and very close to being OT.
>
> What's the matter? Is it a slow post day? Are there
> not enough real problems to help people with? Turn
> your face toward the sun.
>
> Give us a break.
>
> Cheers
>
> Billy 8-{) :|
>

It is after all School Holidays Billy. Some of them would be better spent helping out with chores around the house.

Billy T
13-01-2004, 06:42 PM
LOL Baldy :D

chiefnz
13-01-2004, 08:51 PM
Is it 2004 or 1984... Orwell is here and living large man!!!

The question is how far wil governments go to protect the privacy of its country's citizens...

If ever MS got this proposal right it would seriously impede on one's freedom of choice. Somehow I don't see large amounts of people including politicians agreeing to this sort proposal... but if you really look at it, this is what their plan entails.... piracy and hacking etc will be put to an end (so they say) however it would appear that this will be done at the expense of every citizen's freedom of choice... your choice as to what software you want to run?

Of course I could go on further and say that if MS spent a little more time on it's projects.... refining them and ensuring the consumer gets what they want or indeed what MS promised...then there'd be no problems really but instead they find themselves releasing software which is riddled with bugs. If they did that we wouldn't have people who adopt the so-called (ANTI MICROSOFT) attitude.

I am not against MS however I do believe that their desire to be in every PC (which will never happen) is a bit worrying to say the least especially when it takes from me the right to choose.

Somehow scenes from the Terminator movies come to mind, no more humans just a bunch of computers that in the end will self terminate cos there was a bug in their OS.

If that were to happen then it would seem that fate is not without a sense of irony....

I would like to take theplunge into the world of linux... but i guess like everyone else I am too scared to leave my MS inner sanctum... it's not that I liack the technical expertise to change over I simply donot have enough time to look up all the kernels etc, Linux is a great OS but the initial commitment you have to put into it at the start seems to scare everyone away....

And with that long winded "I hope that made some sense in the end" speech I will bid you all a farewell.


cheers
chiefnz

Baldy
13-01-2004, 11:35 PM
> I am not against MS however I do believe that their
> desire to be in every PC (which will never happen)
> is a bit worrying to say the least

Gee Whiz!!!!!!!!!!

Correct me if I am wrong, but all MS are doing, is SELLING computer software?

Just like.......
Watties would like everyone to buy their brand of canned goodies
Cadbury's wanting to sell everyone chocolates
Shell to have all cars filled with their petrol
Honda to be the #one selling motor bike
Mitre 10 to be the only place you can buy building products
Harcourts to be the only real estate agents
McDonald to be the only fast food
Pepsi to put CocaCola out of business

You are the one with the choices. If you don't want a MS product, don't damn well buy one. Install Linux or whatever Or design your own.

But stop snivelling on about MS trying to take over the world. They won't, they can't and they never will. Whats the big deal

Chilling_Silently
14-01-2004, 12:27 AM
Pepsi will never put Coke Cola out of business while Im around .... ;-)

metla
14-01-2004, 12:46 AM
Baldy,For the love of god just ****.

We are by all means allowed to discuss the direction MS are taking with such an importent piece of software without your rantings.

Its not like you actually disputed any statements or facts(percieved or otherwise)

I bet your the kind of guy who think BP are the greatest company on earth after their round of feel good ads.

agent
14-01-2004, 01:10 AM
What feel good ads would those be?

Anyway, at least most companies have the good sense not to announce that they want a computer running Windows in every household (because didn't nice Mr Gates announce that a few decades ago?) in the world.

Those sorts of statements just scare me. So do ones like "now we can make China pay for our products".

If you look at just how screwed up the US can get, it isn't hard to imagine them making TCPA a reality. Take a look at the actions of Senator Fritz whatever, who the Fritz chip is named after. Take a look at things like the DMCA, and the record companies selling CDs that aren't actually CDs. Was it not the US that was as stupid to make permanent markers illegal (something like that) because they could be used to circumvent copy control protections on CDs? Or the government which is still scared of terrorists using planes to destroy buildings, despite the fact that most citizens on board such a plane now-a-days most likely wouldn't let people overtake a plane with boxcutters.

TonyF
14-01-2004, 08:37 AM
> I spent a lot of time trying Linux (several
> versions), & came to the conclusion that it was a
> waste of time as a Desk Top. ( Very good for servers
> etc)
> Lousy software, lousy fonts, difficult to operate &
> setup, takes too long to boot up etc etc.

Mzee might wish to look at
http://science.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_title=Scientific_Research_Backs_ Wisdom_of_Open_Source&story_id=22862&category=scnce

chiefnz
14-01-2004, 10:03 AM
> Correct me if I am wrong, but all MS are doing, is
> SELLING computer software?

I agree with you totally Baldy, they are selling computers, however let's not be blind to the fact that MS has considerable commercial clout in the computer market as well as in other industries, not because of their involvement but because of their sheer financial strength. All they need to do is pump a hell of a lot of money (which incidentally they do have) into the right areas (hands) to get the window of opportunity they need to push forward.

US politians are easy targets... what with the threat of terrorism along with the relatively high state of paranoia in the US... how easy do you think it would be to convince congress that if they leave MS unchallenged it would make spying on potential terrorist threats easier.

> You are the one with the choices. If you don't want a
> MS product, don't damn well buy one. Install Linux or
> whatever Or design your own.

How do I have a choice when am I going to be forced to buy certain appplications because my CPU or other hardware won't run anything else. Essentially I see it as MS saying... " hey guys use our products and pay more for it or learn Linux", personally, I do not have a problem with that but how many members of the world's computing population would be willing to spend time teaching themselves Linux... Indeed how many businesses will be able to afford a capital investment on the hardware and software this move will require....

The big picture here is that if you take away an individual's/business' right to choose the direction of their computing solution... that is if you do not allow them to choose the most cost-effective option (ie the cheapest) then they would not bother... what sort of impact will this have on world trade, companies on one side of the globe cannot trade with the other cos their OS isn't Windows 2011....

Dare I say this is not about being against MS.... it's more about preserving a freedom each and every one of us has taken for granted for so long.... the freedom to decide.... the freedom to choose between Coca Cola or Pepsi, the choice between Vogels and that other bread no-one really likes.
>
> But stop snivelling on about MS trying to take over
> the world. They won't, they can't and they never
> will. Whats the big deal

Again Baldy I agree with you, however it's not the world they are trying to take over, it's our freedom of choice they are attempting to take away.

What sort of a world would it be if I can't decide things for myself???

cheers
chiefnz