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amazon
29-09-2003, 02:32 PM
With all the media it has had lately regarding prosecution, is it safe for me to download from Kazaa? I have only ever downloaded ancient music for dad, probably 3 songs in the last 3 months. Is it too risky to carry on, or what do you guys think?

csinclair83
29-09-2003, 02:42 PM
to be actually honest..its actually illegal 2 download anything that is covered by copyright...ie music or software full versions...

but the other thing is..if they go after 1 person on kazaa then they would "have to" go after the others...so i kinda thinking that if they wanna go after kazaa they would go after the main person who runs it but i dont think ne one actually "owns" kazaa..i dunno actually

all we can do is either stop downloading..or just download and dont say a word about it and pray no one would come after you...

agent
29-09-2003, 04:12 PM
No one owns or controls what is on the network used by Kazaa Media Desktop, but as people will be people (and want stuff for free), many people share material covered by copyright on the network.

Now, currently, the RIAA has stuck to prosecuting those who are actually making copyrighted material available in large numbers. This means that, for the moment, the chances are that if you are sharing one song, or downloading songs, they will not prosecute you - yet.

Most of us know that downloading material covered by copyrights is illegal (because some people seriously do not know that, or refuse to think it - something to do with their mindframe probably), so if you have downloaded copyrighted music from the internet, you most likely know that you have broken laws.

I think there is something like copyrights cease to be effective fifty years after the death of the person holding the copyright, but no doubt record companies own the copyright for many songs, and therefore will continue to hold the copyright for as long as they exist. However, I am not sure if this particular part of copyrights would apply to music.

Analysts have commented on the RIAA's activities, labelling them as "shock tactics" designed to scare people, but true fanatics of sharing music will find ways to 'beat' the RIAA.

If you use software such as Kazaa Lite K++ - with it's built in IP Blocker, you might think you're better off than without using it. But while this may be true, there has been debate on forums about the banned IP list. It has been found that people will add entries such as "127.0.0.1 - YOU ARE GETTING SUED TOMMORROW" to the list. Such bogus entries can scare many users, but many are commenting that they are simply annoying. Apparently the PeerGuardian database isn't verified too often, and so good-willed people and perhaps the RIAA are adding IPs for websites and saying they are the RIAA... ie, people look at statistics and say "PG blocked 17 hits from the RIAA yesterday, I need to lay low".

The reality is, file sharing is dubious. If you want to share files, I urge you to only share software which you are allowed to redistribute, such as drivers or demo software. If you want to download files, please stick to legal files.

Yes, there are underlying issues with downloading illegal copies of songs, and many people complain that record prices are too high.

And just for your information, it is illegal to use Kazaa Lite, Kazaa Lite K++, and any other software derived from the full-blown Kazaa Media Desktop software. This is due to the nature in which the software was created, in which Sharman Networks could claim that people reverse engineered their software in order to create Kazaa Lite.

nomad
29-09-2003, 04:35 PM
Go prepaid internet on a left open phone jack ;) :D Cover ur tracks!

On the serious side, I am too unsure what exactly to believe. How risk adverse is ur personality?

agent
29-09-2003, 04:51 PM
I can understand what prepaid internet means, but what's a left open phone jack?

You'd be better off reading some of the stuff at http://www.2600.org.nz (http://www.2600.org.nz/). Enough said...

csinclair83
29-09-2003, 04:54 PM
the law doesnt seem 2 stop neone these days?
whats the government doing in the states regarding the law?
or are all the arrests for copyright breaches/illegal downloads being kept secret so we dont know?

amazon
29-09-2003, 05:09 PM
Thanks for the replies....I realise people who are copying large amounts and using it for perhaps profit in some way are asking for trouble, I have a friend who will make up a CD for $12, your choice of songs. I am a very low user, perhaps 2-3 CDs per year maximum.
I enjoy getting the odd song, but seriously wonder if there is a huge risk of me being sued? After all, there must be millions of people worldwide copying them.?
As for the prepaid internet idea...I have no idea what that is! I use one of NZ's largest ISP's, can the music bods trace me? After all, dosen't my computer only broadcast a number, not name?
I still buy CDs quite often, however I will certainly not pay $30 plus for one song in particular when it is free through Kazaalite...
Is there a website which monitors the "prosecytions", or "risk factors" regarding the use of kazaalite etc?
Thanks guys...have a great night

amazon
29-09-2003, 05:12 PM
Oops, spelling...I mean prosecutions...jeeze my keyboard skills are fading....

Mike
29-09-2003, 05:25 PM
> I still buy CDs quite often, however I will certainly
> not pay $30 plus for one song in particular when it
> is free through Kazaalite...

That's where your thinking is wrong. It's not "free" through Kazaa - it's "stolen", or "pirated" through Kazaa.

Otherwise I may as well walk into a CD Shop and just take one of the CDs without paying for it... it's "free" cause I could get it without paying for it - oops, no, it wasn't free, it was stolen.

Mike.

PoWa
29-09-2003, 07:00 PM
> And just for your information, it is illegal to use Kazaa Lite, Kazaa Lite K++, and any other software derived from the full-blown Kazaa Media Desktop software. This is due to the nature in which the software was created, in which Sharman Networks could claim that people reverse engineered their software in order to create Kazaa Lite.

PCW included kazaalite on their cover disk a few months ago :o

I see sharman networks have sued the RIAA for copyright infringment of their kazaa software. Apparently the RIAA has been releasing their own versions of kazaalite with warning messages to potential infringers. lol, a slap in the face for the RIAA.

As far as using a prepay mobile phone (connected via mobile jetstream or otherwise) for downloading illegal stuff, its a good idea, but I think they can triangulate your location if you are in range of 2-3 cell towers at once.

If you insist on usig k-lite, the best you can do is run an IP blocker, route it through a few anonymous proxies, or maybe try a P2P program like Earth Station 5. Still doesn't take care of the trail you left at your ISP though, so if the RIAA manage to find your ISP there will be incriminating logs!

I think a program that connects your computer to an anonymous proxy via an SSL encrypted stream is the best way to go.

dotcommander
30-09-2003, 08:18 AM
Im downloading while I surf. Yesterday i downloaded the entire pink floyd the wall. I dont consider this theft but man its crystal clear in comparisson to my record. Im slowly backing up my entire record collection, should take a few years. I dont suppose the RIAA have agents here in NZ to bust my ass...

segfault
30-09-2003, 10:29 AM
There is RIANZ, but I don't think you'll find they are as heavy handed as their US counterpart. I just read in FFWD that they are more interested in "educating" people about how bad "piracy" is rather than going after people.

In a way this is quite sad, because I think people will get the idea that sharing is bad. Sharing is not bad. Sharing is good. The whole basis of the internet is sharing. Sharing is only bad when you share something that you were not given permission to share.

somebody
30-09-2003, 11:47 AM
No matter what sized ISP you use, no matter what software you use, you can still be tracked. Even if you do it from someone else's phone line, you can still be tracked. Technology has gone so far that they can identify your computer, and take your personal information off it. If they want to prosecute you, they have all the information they need. A simple court order will allow them access to your ISP's logs, to track what else you've done. Your computer broadcasts a number, yes, and that number (IP address) personally identifies your computer. The ISP will be able to tell the police (on request) which user had that IP address at what particular time, what they did on the internet, and give them your personal details.

Nowadays it is impossible to cover your tracks. Disclosing information such as that you buy 2-3 CDs from your "friend" could lead someone to go after you. They have evidence of you publicly announcing that you buy pirated music, and a search warrant will let them obtain your personal information from IDG, as well as your ISP, which will lead to them finding you. They could then use you to track down your "friend" and prosecute him/her as well.

Of course, out of the millions of people doing this sort of stuff, the chances of you being caught are small. However, there is the chance, as the RIAA or RIANZ could simply randomly pick people to prosecute, to scare the rest. The easiest way to avoid prosecution is not to break the law in the first place.

Lohsing
30-09-2003, 12:38 PM
You know... it's quite funny this whole piracy issue... I mean, Sony on one hand is trying to protect its artists, etc.. .yet on the other hand, they create Minidisc, and CD writers.

The problem I have is that you can transfer your CD's to Minidisc and it's not considered piracy. You can burn your audio CD's on Sony's proprietary software which comes bundled with it, etc.

Then you get corporations like Xtra, who are trying to promote broadband... check out the wording of the latest ad featuring the Jetsons... You hear them talking about music, and files being downloaded faster! This from an ISP of all people. It practically encourages file sharing, without actually saying it...

I won't lie and say I haven't downloaded any music ever... I have used Napster, Audiogalaxy (which was the best possible) and now WinMX.

I do however still buy my CD's... I consider myself a bit of an audiophile and like to have original covers, songs, etc. The quality is very noticeable and another significant factor why I still buy CD's.

Lo.

nomad
01-10-2003, 03:31 PM
What about public libraries??

Graham L
01-10-2003, 03:44 PM
It depends on the music. If the "ancient stuff" is the Beatles, probably not too harmful, but if you find yourself downloading Max Bygraves's "Tulips from Amsterdam", your brain has been irreparably damaged. B-)

vk_dre
01-10-2003, 03:47 PM
The Recording industry mainly targets those who upload at least 1000songs, as quoted in the herald and FFWD magazine. So i dont think there would be much to worry bout on our small scale downloading, but still that 12yr old girl who got sued for dowloading 3songs, thats quite freaky, so just dowload in moderation, dont overdo it like dowloading 40 songs in one day :D

Lohsing
01-10-2003, 04:02 PM
No, the RIAA targeted people who 'shared' more than 1000 songs on their hard drives. Furthermore, they took a txt list of what was shared, without actually having those songs.

Now if you were smart enough, you would realise that the onus is on them to prove the songs listed in the txt list were actually what they said they were. If they weren't then you can't possibly be done for copyright infringements, etc.

Oh well... my 2c worth.

Lo.

vk_dre
01-10-2003, 04:12 PM
> No, the RIAA targeted people who 'shared' more than
> 1000 songs on their hard drives. Furthermore, they
> took a txt list of what was shared, without actually
> having those songs.
>
> Now if you were smart enough, you would realise that
> the onus is on them to prove the songs listed in the
> txt list were actually what they said they were. If
> they weren't then you can't possibly be done for
> copyright infringements, etc.

U say tomato, i say tomatoe, no big diff. :D

Lohsing
01-10-2003, 04:14 PM
> U say tomato, i say tomatoe, no big diff. :D

Yeah... you're right there... posted before read carefully!

Incidentally, if you use Kazaalite, then you have no probs.

Lo.

somebody
01-10-2003, 05:03 PM
With Kazaa Lite, you'd be worse off. First you break the Kazaa's terms of use buy using a hacked-up version, then you use it to download copyrighted material.

Lohsing
01-10-2003, 07:32 PM
LOL! And you're saying using Kazaa is better then to download copyrighted material??

Lo.

somebody
01-10-2003, 09:26 PM
I'm simply saying that it means that you're breaking one less law than if you were using Kazaa lite. No matter what means you use to download copyrighted material, it's still illegal (unless you're paying for it of course).

tedheath
01-10-2003, 09:32 PM
RIANZ can get stuffed.
If any Nazi prick wants to track me down good luck to them. They will have as much luck as the NZ government making me pay traffic fines.
Its all relative, Our country isnt like the USA ,you only get around 15 years in jail for murdering someone. In the USA you get taken out.
So on that scale, a jolly good slapping with a wet bus ticket is fair punishment.

tedheath

kiwibeat
02-10-2003, 09:38 AM
Its actually easier and faster to borrow a mates cd's or go to the library and then rip them to your HDD in as high a bit rate as you like

agent
02-10-2003, 09:47 AM
> RIANZ can get stuffed.
> If any Nazi prick wants to track me down good luck to them.

Well, that's a nice attitude, isn't it?

Problem is, your attitude is not justified, because the RIANZ currently is not doing anything that we know of to punish or catch offenders.

pingbad
23-11-2003, 09:16 PM
Here's a scenario:
I bought the Silverchair: Best of Vol 1 a fair while back, copied a few decent tracks to HDD for my personal use (never to share) and also just in case the discs got damaged (usually by me or some careless parent). The discs, inevitably, became unreadble and unfixable and I ended up throwing them out. If I were to go through the popular Gnutella / Fasttrack networks, hunt down the songs which were on the album that I once paid for, would i get prosecuted?

csinclair83
23-11-2003, 10:00 PM
did anyone even realise recording a tv program onto a tape is actually violating the copyright law? or used to....until demand outclassed the law...

i know i dont seem to know much stuff about this but yeah...

aroc
23-11-2003, 10:49 PM
>RIANZ can get stuffed.
>If any Nazi prick wants to track me down good luck to them. They will have as much luck as the NZ government making me pay traffic fines.
>Its all relative, Our country isnt like the USA ,you only get around 15 years in jail for murdering someone. In the USA you get taken out.
> So on that scale, a jolly good slapping with a wet bus ticket is fair punishment.

ROFLMAO. Amen to that.

And no pingbad I don't think it would be illegal.

simonc
24-11-2003, 10:20 AM
One thing has been bothering me about all of this music download 'piracy'.

If you originally purchased the album (Pink Floyd The Wall for example) when it first was released. The copyright has been paid by you to the artist in the purchase price.
If then, the tape was chewed in the tape deck (which happened to me on a regular occurrence) or stolen from your car (again, unfortunatly a regular occurrence).
To replace the album, you download it from the net.
In a perfect world you have paid for the copyright and the download is not piracy....?
Is it the responsibility of the copyright holder to prove that you never owned the album (innocent before proven guilty)...OR
Is it your responsibility to prove that you owned the album (guilty before proven innocent)

hmmmm....

Simon C

Winston001
24-11-2003, 11:25 AM
A quick view on replicating music which you already have, in case the CD, record, is destroyed, stolen etc.
One copy for yourself is lawful in the USA. No copies are lawful in NZ.

Essentially you purchase a thing (CD, cassette, whatever) which will allow prerecorded music to play. If that thing no longer works, through no fault of the manufacturer, then it is gone. Just like a book which accidently gets burnt. The author isn't going to supply you with a free copy.

It is a clear breach of the owners rights, to copy music, or anything, without consent.

Archibald
24-11-2003, 11:37 AM
One thing I've noticed in this thread, is the very few "regular" who refuse to come to grips that downloading mp3's from P2P app's and other methods are staying well away.

Is it that most people now understand it's illegal? (piracy)

Terry Porritt
24-11-2003, 11:41 AM
Leaving aside the question of whether what is commonly called music really is music or just mindless cacophony ( :) ), if one is prepared to pay a subscription to Live365, you can listen legally to all the music you want, as royalties on each track played are paid by Live365.

Fire-and-Ice
24-11-2003, 02:40 PM
> One thing I've noticed in this thread, is the very
> few "regular" who refuse to come to grips that
> downloading mp3's from P2P app's and other methods
> are staying well away.
>
> Is it that most people now understand it's illegal?
> (piracy)

Nah, I'd say it's because they are all sick of repeating the same old spiel all the time. ;-)

Winston001
24-11-2003, 04:18 PM
>> Nah, I'd say it's because they are all sick of
> repeating the same old spiel all the time. ;-)

Agreed.

This is a moral as well as legal issue. Not new either. Dates from the early 1960s when consumers began to buy tape recorders.
When the tape cassette was invented, and manufacturers started to bundle radios with tape recorders - then dubbing was all on.
Later dual tape machines appeared and recently recordable CDs.

So copying has been going on for about 40 years now.

Why? Well everyone loves free stuff. And there is a perception that music and software are exorbitantly priced. Plus the disingenuous argument that having bought the stuff, you should have it (or copies) for ever. This doesn't apply to anything else in life but why bother with logic.

Copyright piracy is a real conundrum.
Most people wouldn't (hopefully) put a washer in a parking meter. Or walk out of a shop with a CD. Both cases of dishonesty.

Yet the same decent people will copy music etc without a second thought. Still morally and legally wrong.

This leads to the argument that when a law is so widely ignored by the general population, it is no longer good law. And maybe that is true.

Copyright originally developed in England in Elizabethan times under pressure from printers. They wanted to protect their publications and cared nothing for the actual authors who didn't get the benefit of copyright for about another 200 years.

Imagine writing some software or music, spending months on it, and finding you make $100 all up cos everyone has copied it. How would you feel?

Chris Randal
25-11-2003, 02:36 PM
"Essentially you purchase a thing (CD, cassette, whatever) which will allow prerecorded music to play. If that thing no longer works, through no fault of the manufacturer, then it is gone. Just like a book which accidently gets burnt. "

However it is not unreasonable to expect that it will last forever, assuming it is not maltreated. To design in redundancy is surely a breach of the consumer guarantees act - the bit that says that goods must be suitable for the purpose for which they are bought. It doesn't give a time limit.