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juha
25-08-2003, 11:23 AM
What do people think of Telecom's new ADSL plans? (http://www.telecom-media.co.nz/releases_detail.asp?id=2915&page=index)

Now you've got a choice of:

* Low speed and low data caps

or

* High speed and low data caps


That's what happens when you eliminate telco/ISP competition.

--
Juha

stu140103
25-08-2003, 11:41 AM
You are a wee bit slow :) see hereJetStream news (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=38591)

Chilling_Silently
25-08-2003, 11:47 AM
> What do people think of Telecom's
> new ADSL plans? (http://www.telecom-media.co.nz/releases_detail.as
> ?id=2915&page=index)

I think one word sum's it up quite nicely:
*Dissappointed*

> Now you've got a choice of:
>
> * Low speed and low data caps
>
> or
>
> * High speed and low data caps

500Megs is nothing, I can do 3x that in a week on Dial-Up, sharing the line with 8 people in the household who all want to use it to make calls. Im disgusted!


> That's what happens when you eliminate telco/ISP
> competition.

I'd be keen to hear about Walker Wireless and their offering.. or if Cable will be a possibilty up in Auck's any time soon...

juha
25-08-2003, 11:49 AM
Ahhh... missed that one. Thanks.

juha
25-08-2003, 12:07 PM
> I'd be keen to hear about Walker Wireless and their
> offering.. or if Cable will be a possibilty up in
> Auck's any time soon...

Thing is though, Telecom's artificially high prices don't just hit end-users. Anyone wanting to send data across Telecom's networks (includes Xtra and Netgate or Global-Gateway etc) also has to pay through the nose.

There is no incentive for anyone to offer a cheaper or better service. If they somehow manage to pull it off financially, Telecom will lower prices locally like it did with Saturn until the competition is starved off.

Telecom knows that nobody can or will undercut its service, hence the two-finger salute to DSL customers.

--
Juha

Greg S
25-08-2003, 12:19 PM
What blows me away is how expensive it is in real terms... take this quote from this morning's Aardvark for their 500MB capped plan:

"Now let's see -- at 256Kbps, you can download for just 5 hours before you hit that 500MB cap. The 500MB JetStream 256Kbps plan costs $39.95 plus whatever your ISP adds (in the case of Xtra, that's going to be either $34.95 or $20, we don't yet know for sure).

However, even if we're charitable and assume the total cost for this plan is $59.95 ($39.95 + $20) then that works out at cost of $12 per hour when downloading large files or high-bitrate video streams. THIS IS CHEAP??? "

Compare that to full speed access at a cyber cafe of between $2 -$5.00 per hour! And Aardvark's calculations don't even take into consideration the return packets that have to be sent for all the incoming packets

-=JM=-
25-08-2003, 12:26 PM
They're a crock. If there was unlimited national it would be all good. Most people I know barely even touch their international traffic. I haven't seen any one that thinks the new plans are any good.

I did hear that apparently JetStart was only meant to be an introduction to the fullpipe though. Never really happened the way they planned on it though.

Chilling_Silently
25-08-2003, 12:30 PM
But for an extra $10-20 odd per month you can get FULL Jetstream with the same data caps... Im sure Telecom has some sort of underlying logic here, but I just cant see it!

Fire-and-Ice
25-08-2003, 12:35 PM
It is worse than a joke, but the thing is nobody has to subscribe to the faster plan. If they had no one take up the "offer" what are they going to do about it?

A massive boycott of the faster plan will force Telecom to revise, surely??

juha
25-08-2003, 12:37 PM
> What blows me away is how expensive it is in real
> terms... take this quote from this morning's Aardvark
> for their 500MB capped plan:
>
> "Now let's see -- at 256Kbps, you can download for
> just 5 hours before you hit that 500MB cap. The 500MB
> JetStream 256Kbps plan costs $39.95 plus whatever
> your ISP adds (in the case of Xtra, that's going to
> be either $34.95 or $20, we don't yet know for
> sure).
>
> However, even if we're charitable and assume the
> total cost for this plan is $59.95 ($39.95 + $20)
> then that works out at cost of $12 per hour when
> downloading large files or high-bitrate video
> streams. THIS IS CHEAP??? "
>
> Compare that to full speed access at a cyber cafe of
> between $2 -$5.00 per hour! And Aardvark's
> calculations don't even take into consideration the
> return packets that have to be sent for all the
> incoming packets

Some people would say that at a Cybercafe, you split the bandwidth and thus cost between several users. However, Jetstream users are not provisioned anything more than 26.4Kbps each.

What the figures tell you is that Telecom sees ADSL as a faster version of dial-up. They triple the speed, and the number of hours connected, as well as the data usage per month, and think that's somehow a representative measure of usage.

Ridiculous.

I don't know if Telecom understands what people want to use ADSL for or not -- I've certainly told Sandra Geange & Co a number of times what it can be used for. If they do, it's a cynical ploy to milk its government-protected monopoly. If they don't, that's just as bad because there's ultimately very little anyone can do about it.

--
Juha

Mike
25-08-2003, 01:25 PM
> It is worse than a joke, but the thing is nobody has
> to subscribe to the faster plan. If they had no one
> take up the "offer" what are they going to do about
> it?
> A massive boycott of the faster plan will force
> Telecom to revise, surely??

The problem is, people are going to join :( and unfortunately it's going to be the people who don't know any better - people who buy the computer just to use the internet and see this "high-speed internet" offer and decide to pay for it... and the problem is, they will end up paying for it. Telecom are targetting the easy money people - and it's downright dirty.

Mike.

Chilling_Silently
25-08-2003, 02:18 PM
I agree that it is sad, because my Mother who is totally computer illetrate heard me talking to my Father about it, and she said:

"But that's stupid, If we get it we should go with the faster one because its twice the speed and you get 5x more with it as opposed to only 10"

The thing is, ten of what?
She heard the 500Megs and 10 gigs and didnt realize that 10 gigs is 20x more than 500Megs!

The thing is that with most n00b's I've come across, they're never going to take in all the jargon and knowledge possible within a short amount of time (And who can blame them, its a cruel world), and so they hear a term, like it, and "cling" to it in some cases...

My friend was building his PC and wanted Rambus RAM over just RAM, and when I asked why, he said:
"Its got Bus on the end of it, so it's gotta be better, right?"

Pity, he wanted an AMD CPU to go with it.... ;-)

But that's what I'm talking about it, its those new to the whole ordeal who are going to weigh up:
500 or 10
Who cares if its GB or MB afterwards, one number is larger than the other!

Odin
25-08-2003, 03:19 PM
The other thing that telecom hasn't taken into account (or more likely they have and are counting on it) is the fact that these users that use less than 500 megs a month are probably just the users on dial up. Now I don't know about you but trying to download over 500 megs per month on dial up would drive me round the bend as it is so damn slow, it would take most computer illiterate people 6 weeks to download that much.

That being said the first thing these users are going to do when they get high speed access is to do all the things they couldn't do with thier dialup, chat online, download demos, browse everywhere they possibly can and spend many many more hours on their favourite porn site :D. Getting high speed internet after putting up with dial up for so long is going to be like giving an overdose of "Heroin" to a person that normally only uses "Asprin". I can almost say with certainty that for the first few months new users will blow away their 500 cap within the first week and then find themselves either with no access for the rest of the month or a massive bill in their mailbox. I think the last past is what telecom is counting on as it will just mean more money to go into the coffers.

stu140103
25-08-2003, 03:22 PM
> I'd be keen to hear about Walker Wireless and their
> offering.. or if Cable will be a possibilty up in
> Auck's any time soon...

I know over in east Auckland where I live that Walker Wireless is coming in my area soon, but if there where cheaper then what we are playing now we might go with them.

We where chatting to them at I.C.E :)

PoWa
25-08-2003, 04:45 PM
I'll tell you all again. Give telecom an email at their customer service response email (https://www.telecom.co.nz/form/1,3905,3582-1545,00.html). If they get a good deal of those emails, then they are going to change their stupid plans!!! Click, the 'I want a response' button as well.

Heres what I got back today:

"Thank you for your feedback
I have forwarded your e-mail to our Jetstream team for their reference.

All feed back is collated and referred to when we decide on changing prices and plans, we do take customers feed back seriously and if issues are reconsidered there will be details on our website.

If we can assist you any further with this matter, or any other please feel
free to contact Telecom on 123
We will be happy to help.
Yours sincerely"

So they've forwarded the email I sent onto their jetstream team. Now if they get lots of angry emails then they are going to change something!! Make sure you demand a minimum of 256k and no less than 10Gigs. 15gigs even better. Anything less than 10gigs at that speed is absolute rubbish! - simply because you burn through the 10gigs all that much quicker.

Btw isn't walker wireless very expensive (e.g $200+ a month) and its only available in Auckland so far - and they are still in testing stages?

Odin
25-08-2003, 05:30 PM
Thats just your standard form letter from telecom which means the simply threw it in the bin. I got exactly the same reply.

godfather
25-08-2003, 05:42 PM
They have also received a polite, but concise missive from the CEO of our company (=me) stating how underwhelmed our company is with their product and its pricing.

Its complete arrogance to serve up such a package, which is effectively dearer than existing options.

Perhaps we should pay them in Monopoly money?

Baldy
25-08-2003, 06:50 PM
> They have also received a polite, but concise missive
> from the CEO of our company (=me) stating how
> underwhelmed our company is with their product and
> its pricing.

CEO eh? That term is old hat. Maybe Telecom would take more notice if you called yourself President. That seems to be the new buzz word!

Jen C
25-08-2003, 06:50 PM
I agree with sending them feedback. There is no point complaining about it if you are not prepared to follow this up with written (polite) feedback. They may just send out an automated reply, but if enough people complain surely this will be noticed. Whether they will actually do anything about it is a different matter, as for many there are no other choices for broadband connection and they know it.

juha
25-08-2003, 07:07 PM
> The other thing that telecom hasn't taken into
> account (or more likely they have and are counting on
> it) is the fact that these users that use less than
> 500 megs a month are probably just the users on dial
> up.

No, it's Xtra Jetstart users with 5GB caps, according to Telecom. It's less than half of Jetstart users, so most go over 500MB a month.

--
Juha

Misty
25-08-2003, 07:42 PM
This is the reply that I sent to Telecom based on the earlier thread on this subject :

Hi
I am a member of the NZ PCWorld forum - PressF1. Regarding your new packages which our members have been looking forward to and eagerly anticipating for many months I can advise you that there are already exactly 50 comments received. More will definitely come. Every single comment, without exception has been unfavourable, mostly very. Up to now Telecom have always had supporters and there have always been those who are not, some of whom get carried away. This time however Telecom have not a single supporter and the overwhelming thing coming through is that people feel really let down and do not think the new packages worth while at all. I too feel really let down, as I thought like virtually everyone else that Jetstream Starter would double speed to 256k with no price increase. This was felt to be the absolute minimum.

Extremely disappointing !

Hopefully (naive !!?) this may get some small attention. I agree however that to get any notice you have to be relatively diplomatic. If most of the members and some friends from PressF1 put in some comments that have been thought through then I think that we can have some real impact. We should also canvas MP's and Ministers of Parliament.
Get to it !!!!!
Misty
:)

Mike
25-08-2003, 08:10 PM
I sent an email the other day referencing this forum (and the other thread about the new pricing options). I received a reply today telling me that it has been forwarded to the Manager of Jetstream Services and Plans (what a title!). I'm waiting for a reply :p

Mike.

nomad
25-08-2003, 10:23 PM
Telecom's Jetline package of $94.95 incl phone and ADSL Full speed JS 500MB. Thats about $55 for the adsl thing.

I assume that is still available?

nomad
25-08-2003, 10:41 PM
Just think of how many unawared people will be bitten..

Well, I have yet to get broadband, I was considering it before, even looking into what modem should I get. If I did get it, it will be Telstra Clear cable modem with a TelstraClear telephone account.

The largest data broadband in NZ has is 30GB by a 3rd party ISP. Ha! The largest ISP and who owns the network - 5GB. hahahahahah :^O :^O :^O

Descent broadband is capped at 500MB or 2GB. Maybe myself and all others on this forum are not typical users of the web ?:|

metla
25-08-2003, 10:43 PM
well,not wanting to be left out,i just wrote em a letter saying i pray for the day our equally inept govenment rips telecom apart.

Probally a little extremist,but not as bad as setting myself on fire beside a telephone exchange(plan b)

.....................HA

Murray P
25-08-2003, 11:04 PM
There could be an upside people. Look out for specials on adsl routers and such like. I bet we weren't the only ones anticipating these fantastic new plans.

BTW, this is the Hon Paul Swains email addy pswain@ministers.govt.nz he is Minister of both, Communications and Information Technology. Be polite, you are asking for help and support.

Cheers Murray P

Murray P
25-08-2003, 11:19 PM
mailto:pswain@ministers.govt.nz Didn't think the Hon paul Swain's addy stood out enough in the earlier post.

Cheers Murray P

Murray P
25-08-2003, 11:23 PM
Ok not the one above, the formating turned the mailto:*p into a smiley :8}. This one pswain@ministers.govt.nz will get you there.

-=JM=-
26-08-2003, 01:28 AM
> They have also received a polite, but concise missive
> from the CEO of our company (=me) stating how
> underwhelmed our company is with their product and
> its pricing.
>
> Its complete arrogance to serve up such a package,
> which is effectively dearer than existing options.
>
> Perhaps we should pay them in Monopoly money?


I saw a link just the other day where someone did that with the SCO/Linux deal.

*wonders where the link went*

sc0ut
26-08-2003, 02:21 AM
i wouldn't care if they give me 500MBs or 5GBs, jetstream is the only isp (that i know of) that gives free national traffic thats all you need

it is true they will make a bit of money off the noobies but if they charge the noobies $500 a month they will run out of noobies

my uses:
Internet: i go threw 1-5MBs an hour on international sites (penuts)
Games: Always NZ Servers (cos they are fast)
P2P: I use Direct Connect and i share within NZ with other jetstream pcs (never kazaa)
Downloads: Takes me 1min longer to find a NZ mirror or Direct Connect (also faster)

i only used 237MBs this month on international (mainly pics) of my 5GBs
thus jetstream is the best for me because, it is also low latency
its on the bandwidth(amount of data per second) that matters its the latency(response speed)

sc0ut
26-08-2003, 02:28 AM
if your really pissed off you could always find where the main fiber optic lines run(usually along the main hi-ways), get a post digger(a farmers tool to drive big fence posts into the ground) and have some fun

DangerousDave
26-08-2003, 08:25 AM
sc0ut... it may be easier to shoot yourself in the foot ;) you'd be killing the internet to lots of people, maybe even you :D

Anyways, I'm not planning on getting ADSL until jetstart goes to 256k with 10gb international, unlimited national. Argh, its a pain because be desperately need the phone line again!

- David

Mike
26-08-2003, 08:28 AM
> i wouldn't care if they give me 500MBs or 5GBs,
> jetstream is the only isp (that i know of) that gives
> free national traffic thats all you need

Huh? jetstream isn't an ISP... ISPs offer Jetstream ADSL and they also offer capped international and most offer uncapped national traffic...

Mike.

John Grieve
26-08-2003, 09:46 AM
As long as our government is to scared to deal with Telecoms monopoly properly (i.e. unbundle the local loop) there is not much we can do except grin and bear it.

What we need is a company to offer 256k wireless on which a properly working VOIP is implemented and then we have the option of dropping Telecom forever. No more line rental and tolls charges = dead Telecom.

Anybody else heard the rumours about TelstraClear rolling out a 256k wireless solution to the public soon (I assume this will be in Auck to start)? Maybe Telecom have heard that rumour to?

toxicbass
26-08-2003, 11:53 AM
i think its a sad business
greed-discontented people.

at polytech,at 8am and 8pm i get 50kbyte /sec
only people who have experienced that speed can understand the happy feelings it gives to the user :-D :-)

and then i wanted it always :-P
in the middle of the day its modem speed (everyone checking emails with helpful ppl using internet radio)

we need some competition in the market
go walker wireless etc!

BTW HOW can the net cafes do it? do they just buy an ultimately expensive one?

heh i live in dunedin,far from the reaches of fast net :P
:)

juha
26-08-2003, 12:31 PM
Another way of looking at the pricing is to see how much Telecom actually charges for the data you shift if you stay within the monthly allowances.

Ignoring line rentals and ISP charges, but adding GST, business users pay between 9 and 12 cents per MB for their full-speed ADSL connections.

However, Jetstream Home500 256K only works out as 8 cents/MB. The 1GB option is even less, at around 5 cents/MB. For 2GB, you pay just under 3 cents/MB.

So how can Telecom justify the 20c/MB excess, when it's clearly making a profit selling data at 3 cents/MB?

ISPs work out the cost of data lines by working out the number of megabytes in one megabit/s/month of the connection; the formula I was given goes like this:

(((1Mb/8)/1048576) *3600*24*365.25)/12*cost-per-MB

20c/MB = NZ$62,699
12c/MB = NZ$37,619
8c/MB = NZ$25,079
3c/MB = NZ$9,404

In May 2002, I was told that the going rate in the US or EU is US$100 to US$200 per MB per month, depending on how much bandwidth you buy.

Let's say NZ$250 - 500 per MB/month, and you have a per MB charge of 0.08 to 0.16 cents in the US/EU.

Despite NZ's geographical isolation and business overheads to support end users, I don't think charging up to 125 times the cost of EU/US prices is acceptable.

--
Juha

godfather
26-08-2003, 04:29 PM
Telecom response to my letter:

Thank you for your feedback.

These new plans are an addition to our old plans and by no means the be all and end all of our offers. You can still have full blown 2mbps Jetstream or Jetstart and in the future there will be more plans.

We are by no means a monopoly and are only seen as such because we are the only ones willing to invest the large quantities of money needed to run an ADSL service in NZ...our competitors, at this stage, have not seen fit to do so.
In the meantime I have forwarded your concerns onto the marketing manager of our Internet Services.

Thank you for taking the time to write to Telecom. We appreciate the feedback

Yours sincerely
[name removed before posting]

For National Manager, Customer Services

0800 108010 ext 32641

Odin
26-08-2003, 04:47 PM
> We are by no means a monopoly and are only seen as
> such because we are the only ones willing to invest
> the large quantities of money needed to run an ADSL
> service in NZ...our competitors, at this stage, have
> not seen fit to do so.
> In the meantime I have forwarded your concerns onto
> the marketing manager of our Internet Services.

HHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yeah right what a load of bolony.

I agree with an earlier post, Telecom in all their stupidy did not expect the vast public outrage that has decended upon their sorry heads. Now who in their right mind would release a statement like they did on Frinday and NOT expect a public outcry. I think telecom were hoping we'd all simply bend over and allow them to shove yup our collective rear ends.

somebody
26-08-2003, 05:01 PM
You have to accept their point that they are the only company in NZ investing money in upgrading the hardware which will enable faster and better broadband services in NZ - Probably because they own the telephone exchanges.

If there was some way of opening up the telephone exchanges so that other ISPs can purchase their own equipment and upgrade too, then there would be more competition.

somebody
26-08-2003, 05:03 PM
Xtra has broadband packages over 5GB - I recall xtra offering a 15GB plan a while back.

I know a large company who buys a per GB per month plan, as they go into hundreds of GB a month. They use jetstream to connect two of their networks, in the north island and south island. Must get expensive :D

somebody
26-08-2003, 05:03 PM
Fibre optic lines aren't that easy to drill through :D They generally have a tough sheathing, and glass fibre in a tight bunch can't be that easy to cut through anyway.

mejobloggs
26-08-2003, 05:13 PM
Just curios. I have a 500mb limit on full jetstream, and i never reach it.

What do you people download?

somebody
26-08-2003, 05:20 PM
I don't have jetstream, but I assume those people like downloading MP3's, watching streamed movies, downloading trial/free software etc.

Or the linux enthusiasts with their megabytes after megabytes of source code etc.

Mike
26-08-2003, 08:10 PM
> Probably because they own the telephone exchanges.

Which makes them the monopoly.

Mike.

Mike
26-08-2003, 08:14 PM
> I don't have jetstream, but I assume those people
> like downloading MP3's, watching streamed movies,
> downloading trial/free software etc.

It doesn't have to be just that. I don't have jetstream either, and I could easily hit 500mb a month just through email (text, no attachments) and web browsing. I mean I've been online for 15 minutes tonight and already I'm up near 2mb, and all I've done is downloaded my email and browsed PressF1. On a good night I could surf for hours. On top of that there's the downloads.

Mike.

Fire-and-Ice
26-08-2003, 08:54 PM
> it is true they will make a bit of money off the noobies but if they charge the noobies $500 a month they will run out of noobies

VERY quickly!!!

LMAO

nomad
26-08-2003, 09:02 PM
was not that what fast internet is supposed to be for? audio, video and gaming where fast data transfers were needed?

nomad
26-08-2003, 09:05 PM
Would anyone know why? Broadband, aka: fast internet is designed for users requiring fast internet services such as, video/audio conference, large downloads and online games.

Why the heck does Telecom cap it at 5GB or 500MB? Can this still be defined as a fit product to fulfil the needs it was once designed for?!

Big audio/video/downloads and gaming are big files - that's why u need fast internet so u can transfer a load more data at each time frame compared to dialup slower internet.

Its like saying, for a typical adult who drives the child to school and to work, groceries etc.. we will allow $50 per week on petrol. If you are to race with that car in a competition we will allow only $5. Insane man...

PoWa
26-08-2003, 10:15 PM
> Its like saying, for a typical adult who drives the child to school and to work, groceries etc.. we will allow $50 per week on petrol. If you are to race with that car in a competition we will allow only $5. Insane man...

Goood analogy :)

I think they got the whole thing the wrong way round.
500mb/256k should be: 512k/25.6gig :D

Chilling_Silently
26-08-2003, 10:20 PM
> Or the linux enthusiasts with their megabytes after
> megabytes of source code etc.

Actually.. It's mostly Binaries, or ISO's ;-)

You'd be surprised.. How big is the latest nVidia Detonator Drivers (For windows here...!)!?!
What about Nero updates?
Windows Updates?
AVG?

Here I've just given you a good 100MB a month, without even trying!

Ever downloaded a Demo app?
I downloaded UT2K3 Demo for Linux a while back, that was 80 megs...

I've done 700Megs in a week on Dial-Up and thought nothing of it.

If you're a PC hobbyist of any sort, you'll find a myriad of things to do with the bandwidth!

I for one plan on hosting FTP when I do get JetStream Starter. Right now, it works and all, but its just too slow on Dial-Up!

Murray P
26-08-2003, 11:00 PM
Just done a quick calc, I've done approximately 8035MB in July and so far in August on linux alone add win2k SP4 at 129MB and various drivers, patches, updates and a few CD burning programs to try out plus No 1 son playning online games, Kazaa, etc, things will getting a bit tight on my 10GB limit. I'm off to check my usage.

Cheers Murray P

Greg S
27-08-2003, 01:47 AM
Yeah good question... I think that the more people use and know the internet and its potential, the more its used. Take Microslop for example... every single app that I know of has some reference in it to further resources on the Net. Video drivers (Nvidia and ATI for eg) are usually around 10 megs.

I used to stay comfortably within my 1 gig limit however, doing mostly lotsa browsing and uploads, but online gaming has thrust me through that limit a lot recently. But now 5 gigs is plenty enough for me (I don't do major file sharing stuff)

somebody
27-08-2003, 08:12 AM
True.

Warren
27-08-2003, 09:10 AM
Just got to put my view in,
As a jetstream starter customer i think the new plans ........SUCK!!!!

Peter Coleman
27-08-2003, 10:26 PM
just thought you guys might like to know,Telecom MAY be looking at cheaper prices,as over the next month they are triple-ing their ADSL help desk staff.Now,I don't know if they thought these prices were going to make that big a difference on uptake,but they obviously have something up their sleeve,perhaps,so maybe they are going to reduce the prices some more.I hope so!

nomad
27-08-2003, 10:38 PM
tripling helpdesk staff. to offer a expensive solution yet with prompt helpdesk ?:|

or to deal with more complaints ?:|
perhaps 128k will be capped v large if not unlimited.
could it really be, to create hate then sympathy that Telecom really listen to people's concerns?

Misty
28-08-2003, 08:13 PM
When I forwarded my comments on 5 August to Telecom they promised a response within 24 hours provided it was a working day if not this would be done by the next working day (or something like that).

I am still waiting for a response. Nuff said !!

:O

agent
28-08-2003, 09:22 PM
I say we gather up our collective geeky behinds and all write (yes, write, not email) to parliament (perhaps the Minister of Telecommunications and whatnot) telling them to do something about Telecom's iron grip on the phone exchanges (such as buying every single exchange).

That way, we'd end up with a fair amount of complaints to the minister, who might do something about it.

If goverment owned the exchanges, they would be in control of the technology etc in them.

Else we could make a collective attempt to hack the exchanges and tell them to ring every phone at a certain time... just like someone did to an 'email marketing company' (you know, spammers). Then you'd probably find Telecom getting complaints.

Guerilla tactics! ]:) :D

Chilling_Silently
28-08-2003, 09:33 PM
> all write (yes, write, not email)

What's that?

agent
28-08-2003, 10:23 PM
Ah yes, I thought we might stumble across a few old-hands who've forgotten how to put pen to paper ;)

On a more serious note, the reason behind writing instead of emailing is because letters are generally accepted to be more formal than emails.

Though, when weighing up either side:
Telecom might filter complaints going through it's network somehow ;)
They might also have a monopoly association with New Zealand Post, and filter out complaints about each other.
Emailing is quicker.
Letters are easier to get lost.
Emails can be discarded or replied to automatically.
Letters are dealt with by hand.

Seems pretty even, overall.

PoWa
28-08-2003, 11:04 PM
Why not courier it directly to the Minister? Then he'd be sure to get it, and he'd probably open it too :O

PoWa
28-08-2003, 11:04 PM
Why not courier it directly to the Minister? Then he'd be sure to get it, and he'd probably open it too :O

vk_dre
28-08-2003, 11:28 PM
I'm probably gonna wait for at least 6months before goin to ADSL, and i hope they get some good plans up and running by then

Murray P
29-08-2003, 12:01 AM
> Else we could make a collective attempt to hack the
> exchanges and tell them to ring every phone at a
> certain time... just like someone did to an 'email
> marketing company' (you know, spammers). Then you'd
> probably find Telecom getting complaints.
>
> Guerilla tactics! ]:) :D

So it was you agent, hogging the all our megre bandwidth on that Chimp site Billy T posted. And here's me thinking it was Robo & Billy clogging the internet while they were ogling the primates. Actually, I thought it was the Telecom marketing team in their real guise ;)

The Honerable Paul Swain is the minister you want to write to. You can find an email addy in this thread, somewhere, or go to the MED (http://www.beehive.govt.nz/Minister.cfm?MinisterID=35). This may be a wee bit hypocritial of me but, be polite if you can, everyone.

Cheers Murray P