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Winston001
19-07-2003, 11:39 PM
Being fairly new to this forum, I notice a lot of spelling errors and odd grammar. I suppose most people would say it doesn't matter.
However can I encourage a little more accuracy. It makes reading and understanding a post much quicker.
Naturally mistakes can slip through, and I've done it.

There is a view that whole language education has led to a generation of bad or could-care-less spelling on the precept that the idea being promulgated is more important than fussing over the actual spelling of the words used.
The standard of language in our newspapers bears incidental witness to this possible dumbing down of education.
The problem is that language (particularly in written form) is how we all communicate and learn. Once spelling becomes a free-for-all a myriad of possibilities arise for misunderstandings. We have to guess what the other person is saying.

And that is my point (rather laboured - sorry, must learn how to use emoticons), - I sometimes have to guess what a post is saying.

Does anyone else care or should I go back to the 19th Century?

Just curious.

Winston

Chilling_Silently
19-07-2003, 11:45 PM
Come join the party over here:
http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=37379

Otherwise, I dont think poor spelling or grammar is that bad, some of us simply cant be bothered with correcting ourselves (Take me for example ;-))

There is a point where you do need to tidy up your post though, as some posts here have been shocking in the area of grammar/spelling/layout, but all in all, I couldnt really care less!

BTW - If you wanna use Emotes, click on the Emoticons link up above where you reply to messages.. A Popup window will open!

Odin
19-07-2003, 11:46 PM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with my speeling its my typing that sux. :D :D :D

Thomas
19-07-2003, 11:55 PM
I am with you Win,just can't stand the saying,I couldn't care less,it has lazy connotations and a lack of respect for the words.
I am a terrible speller but I do care.

bk T
20-07-2003, 12:10 AM
Spelling and grammar are important in written communication. How do you expect others to help you if you don't express yourself clearly? Don't expect others to 'guess' what your problems are. Guessing may not help to solve your problems.

Baldy
20-07-2003, 12:59 AM
I hate it when you get an email and the person goes hmmm

Like they are thinking out loud. Thats my pet hate.

Thomas
20-07-2003, 06:29 AM
>I hate it when you get an email and the person goes hmmm

That should be hmmmm,do try to spell it right Baldy;)

somebody
20-07-2003, 08:37 AM
hmmmmmmmmmm

somebody
20-07-2003, 08:37 AM
[Hears Baldy screem]

cappuccino
20-07-2003, 10:41 AM
In that case, you seem to have chosen an unfortunate name for yourself because it is a well known fact that Sir Winston Churchill was dyslexic

The Student
20-07-2003, 10:54 AM
In my humble opinion,

Technology has made us lazy.

Kids want to spend more time on Playstation rather than playing outside, like kids should....

People rather send text messages, than divert into decent conversations.........

People rather spell in short abreviated terms rather than spell in full.

It doesn't really bother me too much, but sometimes the 'lingo' does go too far, when trying to understand what the person is saying if they just type BTW, BTL, Emo, BTH.

Half the time I am trying to make sense of some of the language in which people now communicate, over the internet and one to one conversations.

Man people are lazy....!!

Lohsing
20-07-2003, 11:07 AM
But the point you should also take onboard is that the internet has become an open forum for everyone. It would be crazy to assume that everyone here is white, speaks English as a first language.

As for "The Student's" comments regarding the lingo... well, unfortunately the internet has generated a whole new language created by the youth of today.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that with the diverse society we have coming to this board, we shouldn't focus on small matters forgetting about the 'bigger picture.'

The point of this board is to try and help other people, not to correct grammar, spelling or syntax. I guess we should all be a little more tolerant and remember that! :)

Lo.

wotz
20-07-2003, 11:40 AM
I don't mind the honest mistakes people (including me) make, its the smart@#$ 'how it sounds is how I'll type it' stuff that annoys me.

Dolby Digital
20-07-2003, 12:08 PM
I use it... I reckon it makes the email more of a conversation, rather than an emotionless change of words (suppose emoticons do that).

stu140103
20-07-2003, 12:17 PM
> I am a terrible speller but I do care.

Join the club! :D

Some people are bad spellers & some people are bad types & some are both.

If you can understand them then there is no big problem & if you cant then try & guess what they are saying (That is what I do) & if you are still unsure then ask (nicely e.g. what do you mean by this or something like that)

Poppa John
20-07-2003, 03:39 PM
Surely good spelling & grammar depend upon personal pride amongst other things
I take Lo's point that English is not everones first language. English is one of the worst languages to learn. I guess I was lucky enough to have teachers who cared, back in the dim dark depths of my youth. PJ :D

Winston001
20-07-2003, 06:57 PM
Very interesting. You all make good points and have my respect. I have to agree with Lo that not everyone is fluent in English. Also I must not be too anal retentive about spelling.
So far as emoticons and the occasional hmmmmmmm go, I think they are appropriate in the electronic forum context which is really a conversation being carried on in slow motion.

And now for something completely different.......THE LARCH!

robsonde
20-07-2003, 07:11 PM
some people can paint nice art, some people can spell good, some people can fix cars, some people can fix computers......

I cant paint, cant spell , cant fix cars.......

I fix computers , I fix computer very well.

as long as readers know what I am getting at then no problem.

I know that I should do better but well............

tweak\'e
20-07-2003, 07:30 PM
being the pf1 KING of poor spelling i shall ignore this thread :^O

stu140103
20-07-2003, 07:55 PM
> being the pf1 KING of poor spelling i shall ignore
> this thread :^O

ummm I think I am tacking over that role :p :D hehehe

Susan B
20-07-2003, 11:14 PM
Sorry Tweak'e but you have lost your crown. Stu has that honour (?) now as he definitely beats you hands down in the poor spelling department. :D

Never mind, your long-term PF1 Geek status gives you exclusive rights to bad spelling that no one else can claim. ;-)

godfather
20-07-2003, 11:29 PM
By the way Stu.....just what is a "progume" that you consistently refer to in your posts?

Not by any chance a program? Got me stumped.

Please enlighten us..... :)

Graham L
21-07-2003, 10:54 AM
I prefer programmes, myself, such as the ones I write. All correctly spelt (so no undeclared variables :D) and syntactically correct (so they compile). I also ensure that they are semantically correct (so they work).

Lesser beings write programs in BASIC, Cobol, and Fortran.

Others write progumes in word processor virus macro and other scripting dialects. And C, C++. ]:)

Programmes work. :D

stu140103
21-07-2003, 11:59 AM
> By the way Stu.....just what is a "progume" that you
> consistently refer to in your posts?
>
> Not by any chance a program? Got me stumped.

Yes :( :_| :8}

> Please enlighten us..... :)

See I suck!!! at spelling / grammar :8} :8} :_| :( :|

** Gets flame shield ready **

-=JM=-
21-07-2003, 12:29 PM
> > By the way Stu.....just what is a "progume" that
> you
> > consistently refer to in your posts?
> >
> > Not by any chance a program? Got me stumped.
>
> Yes :( :_| :8}
>
> > Please enlighten us..... :)
>
> See I suck!!! at spelling / grammar :8} :8} :_| :(
> :|
>
> ** Gets flame shield ready **


Why would we flame someone for speaking the truth :p :p :D

It's not that bad all the time though.

Thomas
21-07-2003, 01:24 PM
Just mostly!

Terry Porritt
21-07-2003, 02:08 PM
I've kept out of this up to now, just had a good chuckle every now and then, because as you all know I'm from "the old country", and everyone knows we had a much superior education over there :).
Or maybe, we all had a good education, (even here), 50/60 years ago, and teachers knew how to speak and spell.

It's the pronunciation and the great vowel change I like comment about that is one cause of poor spelling, even a major cause.

Now hands up all those that think unknown is spelt unknowen :D

Now hands up again those who know the difference between all ready and already. (I dont think Stu does in a nearby posting)

heaton
21-07-2003, 02:10 PM
<In that case, you seem to have chosen an unfortunate name for yourself because it is a well known fact that Sir Winston Churchill was dyslexic>

He would also with this thread not upwith put.

stu140103
21-07-2003, 02:26 PM
> Now hands up again those who know the difference
> between all ready and already. (I dont
> think Stu does in a nearby posting)

:_| :( :8}:8}

** Hides in the corner of his room & wisher he did not say that :( **

Terry Porritt
21-07-2003, 02:34 PM
Not to worry, it is all good fun.

I will take issue however with the complete urban myth that has grown up (notice I didnt say growen ) that Winston Churchill suffered from dyslexia. That is completely untrue, it seems to have been spread by those that re-write history. If that was true he would never have been able to have proof read his prolific writing output :)

Thomas
21-07-2003, 03:57 PM
I am a Derbyshire lad myself,and always regret not being sent to Eaton for a decent education,but as my parents would have had difficulty paying the bus fare there let alone the fees, so I had to put up with a lousy education.
Point being,depends which school you went to not which country you are in.

Terry Porritt
21-07-2003, 05:48 PM
Partially true Thomas, my parents couldn't afford the bus fare to Eaton either !

I've told the story of my Gran before, but will repeat, she was born in 1877 or thereabouts, went to school in the depths of industrial Birmingham, Windsor St School, with quite strict Victorian teachers, and she left school at 13 when her mother died to look after her younger brothers and sisters. She came from a simple 'working class' background. Yet she could read and spell magnificently, read Dickens and other classics, she was very literate indeed. Her arithmetic and general knowledge were also remarkable.

When she started school, schools for the masses had not been existence for very long, forget when exactly. I expect it can be found on the Internet.

So the other side of the coin is how capable the person is and how good the teachers and teaching methods are.

Baldy
21-07-2003, 05:53 PM
> Not to worry, it is all good fun.
>
> I will take issue however with the complete urban
> myth that has grown up (notice I didnt say
> growen ) that Winston Churchill suffered from
> dyslexia. That is completely untrue, it seems to
> have been spread by those that re-write history. If
> that was true he would never have been able to have
> proof read his prolific writing output :)


I thought Winnie never read speech notes, and always spoke ad-lib. How would he be able to read anything with that fat cigar in his gob?

Synchronized_Thoughts
21-07-2003, 06:11 PM
well,(start Quote) Technology has made us lazy (end Quote), but i think that the Technology revolution is still passing us by and correct me if you think im wrong but is opening up a new era for us and is bringing in a English Revolution resulting in short hand typing and our lack of punctuation and so forth..... well, thats whats up with my English and spelling, its easier to understand, I think, the shortened text style but is resulting in the loss of the basic English that I so need to pass my sixth form year:) but as snoop dogg says: "What ever shizzles yo nizzle":)and as bugs bunny says: "thats all folks"

ST.†

-=JM=-
21-07-2003, 06:50 PM
> I've kept out of this up to now, just had a good
> chuckle every now and then, because as you all know
> I'm from "the old country", and everyone knows we had
> a much superior education over there :).
> Or maybe, we all had a good education, (even here),
> 50/60 years ago, and teachers knew how to speak and
> spell.
>
> It's the pronunciation and the great vowel
> change I like comment about that is one cause of
> poor spelling, even a major cause.
>
> Now hands up all those that think unknown is
> spelt unknowen :D
>
> Now hands up again those who know the difference
> between all ready and already. (I dont
> think Stu does in a nearby posting)

It's things like which really bug me about the *English* language. Some words are spelt in ways that just do not make much sense at all, pronunciation yet this would be derived from the word pronounce. Where did the u go?

Maryann
21-07-2003, 07:06 PM
Yes.. the dreadful knowEN and growEN etc....

BUT....how about congraDulations . Our esteemed T.V people just love that word. If only they could just use congraTulations. :O Seeing the odd spelling mistake is one thing, but HEARING these words misused constantly.... :_| :_|

However...I like using "emoticons" , so there!! Shame :8} :8}

Terry Porritt
21-07-2003, 07:49 PM
I think JM, it may be more a case of where did the 'o' come from in pronounce, as this word comes from the Latin pronuntiare.
It could have been a Norman French alteration, after all, they didnt know how to speak French properly, especially after they had been in England a while. In Leicester, a Norman French stronghold, there is a Belvoir Castle, pronounced 'Beever', and similar vagaries all over the place.

English is such a conglomerate of 'Saxon' (Low German, or Platte Deutsch), Danish, Norwegian, Norman French, with Greek and Latin throw(e)n :) in, that inconsistency is not surprising.

Then there was the big pronunciation gap between north and south England resulting in a big 14th century vowel shift when the south more or less set the standard.

Poppa John
21-07-2003, 08:03 PM
Terry. Whats the story with the vowel shift, what happened? PJ

Terry Porritt
21-07-2003, 09:07 PM
Well Poppa, in the olden days when Latin was the lingua franca, Old/Middle English was written using the Latin alphabet, and as nowadays in many European languages, the vowels were pronounced differently to present day English. For example in Italian 'e' is pronounced 'ay', 'i' is pronounced 'ee'. So it was in Old English more or less. The word sheep would have been pronounced shape. There was also more of the 'ch' sound as in 'loch' or the German 'durch', and a rolling of the 'r's. Also the 'o' has changed dramatically, only in English is 'o' pronounced as in boat rather than as in bot.

To hear the epitome of mispronunciation with 'o', just hear all announcers everywhere say Kosovo. The first 'o' will be pronounced correctly, the middle one may or may not be, the last 'o' will be as
in 'boat' instead of 'bot'.

Gradually after Chaucer, during the late 1300s through to the end of the 15 century the vowel sounds had changed to more or less what we hear today, but there are all these regional variations (including NZ and the rest of the English speaking world as well as English counties), that will disprove the rule.

In Old Hill in the Black Country they still (or they did when I was a teenager) speak really Old English/Saxon... 'wo bist doo gain?' where are you going?

I thought this forum was about computing? :)

mikebartnz
21-07-2003, 10:22 PM
I will go back to the 19 centuary with you.

Baldy
21-07-2003, 10:26 PM
How Now Brown Cow

mikebartnz
21-07-2003, 10:34 PM
About nine years ago I heard how in the earlier part of the twentieth century these twelve year olds were asked these maths questions and at that time these teacher trainees were asked the same questions. Guess who got the best results?

cappuccino
22-07-2003, 01:09 AM
> ..................and a rolling of the 'r's. ......................




?? I blame in on the shoes they wore in those days.
]:)

Greg S
22-07-2003, 02:23 AM
Possibly even a "programme"?

Pollly
22-07-2003, 04:24 AM
> How Now Brown Cow

Would that be after it had caught fire, Baldy? ?:|

Terry Porritt
22-07-2003, 08:07 AM
Think of 'My Fair Lady', Polly :)

Terry Porritt
22-07-2003, 08:34 AM
Just another afterthought, "Why can't the English learn to speak?"
To hear perfect English go to Scotland, no, not Glasgow, further north to the highlands and Aberdeen.
They also have (or did) a far superior educational system to England, and no, I'm not Scots.

Thomas
22-07-2003, 08:36 AM
Obviously a subject that interests you Terry,it's the couldn't care less attitude that prevails today on most subjects today that bothers me,including language.
Lots of Porritts round my neck of the woods,that is round Buxton.

mikebartnz
22-07-2003, 10:38 PM
In actual fact NZ used to follow the Scottish education system and then we had a very high standard.

PoWa
22-07-2003, 11:00 PM
Getng bak too the speeling: Take a lok at this poste:

Read down for Stick's post (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=37481)

I felt compelled to rewrite it. :^O

Graham L
23-07-2003, 01:20 PM
The punctuation was fine. Two commas when the writer started running out of breath. The spelling and capitalisation need work. :D

Terry Porritt
23-07-2003, 03:05 PM
As the thread has not yet died, I'll add another comment about JMs' comparing pronounce with pronunciation and why is there an 'o' missing.

This is very interestings as in Middle/Old English, the pronunciation of both words (before the -iation) would be the same.

The letter 'u' was pronounced 'oo', hence the Northern English expression 'oop north' for 'up north'

The ou would also have been pronounced 'oo' since it would have been the Norman French way of spelling the Latin word which also had the same pronunciation.

Another very interesting effect of the Great Vowel shift is in the sound of 'ea', break bread for breakfast they were all pronounced brek bred for brekfast.

So before the Great Vowel Shift pronunciation and spelling were more consistent, it all went wrong afterwards.

argus
23-07-2003, 03:22 PM
> It doesn't really bother me too much, but sometimes the 'lingo' does go > too far, when trying to understand what the person is saying if they
> just type BTW,

Flemish for "GST".

> BTL,

A poorly made bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich.

> Emo,

Too choked up with emotion to type anything longer.

> BTH

Benzothiadiazole.

Where's the problem?

Argus

-=JM=-
23-07-2003, 04:46 PM
Thanks for that Terry, it's very interesting.

PoWa
23-07-2003, 05:01 PM
Come on your being a bit generous GrahamL, :p I found: "youc" , "worke", "sirch", "findes", "computerif", "hardwhere", "priputeys", "actavatedin" :D

Heck, I don't even know what priputeys is??? ;)

Thomas
23-07-2003, 05:11 PM
>So before the Great Vowel Shift pronunciation and spelling were more >consistent, it all went wrong afterwards.

One has to wonder how we manage.

Terry Porritt
23-07-2003, 05:41 PM
Sure does Thomas, how do you explain to someone learning English about brake, break and breakfast?

vk_dre
23-07-2003, 07:17 PM
To Spell correctly, or incorrectly; that is thy question. Dis is very amusing wotchin all of dis talk bout spellin. :D

cheers,
v.K

Stick
23-07-2003, 08:30 PM
Some people are good at spelling but hopeless at thinking outside the squair I know I cant spell or type but give me a problem & I will fix it whatever it may be if we were all the same what a boring world it would be

Poppa John
23-07-2003, 09:09 PM
Stick. Keep smiling & be happy. PJ :D

Alan Carpenter
24-07-2003, 12:39 AM
> Sure does Thomas, how do you explain to someone
> learning English about brake, break and breakfast?

http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/tough.html

Cheers,
Alan Carpenter

Thomas
24-07-2003, 01:19 AM
Very apt Alen and I like the last verse.

Finally, which rhymes with enough–
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give it up!!!

argus
24-07-2003, 03:17 PM
> Heck, I don't even know what "priputeys" is.

You mean what priputeys ARE :-)

"properties", I would say, from the context.

And having just read the third (or is it fourth?) post from someone (including me) whose CD drive has mysteriously disppeared, I think I know what "hardwhere" is, too :-)

Argus

Chris Randal
24-07-2003, 03:40 PM
As in

"Where is the hardware" = hardwhere....

The Student
24-07-2003, 04:08 PM
Lo and behold,

I go away for a couple of days, and yet this post is still growing.....!!!

How long will it take for this post to end? Above all this, we have some comedians here too.

Point taken and agreed for those who shared their intuition from my posting.


Surely I am the last to put my word in now.

Thomas
24-07-2003, 07:29 PM
Boris Buggeroff.

Ron24
25-07-2003, 03:08 PM
Ware the ell wud I bee without mi education