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ComputerWalrus
10-07-2003, 01:18 AM
Ok after spending weeks learning about the intricate task of upgrading a Socket 370 Presario with a 700mhz Celeron, no AGP slot and a insanely small case, I've decided to replace the entire thing as it will probably be cheaper. So Mr C Walrus heads into the world of computer building......

Now I'm chosen most of my components and don't really need anything fancy since I'm a student and don't need anymore debt, but I'm stuck on the motherboard-processor combo. Pentium 4's seem overpriced for what I actually need so I was going to stick with the Celerons that I am used to but the more I've read about Athlons the better they sound compared to a Celeron in terms of value. So basically am I better off going with a 2.0/2.4 Celeron or a Athlon XP 2.2/2.4. I assume its the latter but could any confirm this as its hard to know whether some online reviews are biased.

Thanks.

metla
10-07-2003, 01:25 AM
How do you know our/my opinion isn't biased?

Anyway,the atholon spanks the celeron and the p4,so ya cant go wrong.(although when it comes to a mobo,avoid the via chipset,get nforce2 if you find something in the right pricebraket,or sis)

sc0ut
10-07-2003, 01:40 AM
i agree with mela keep away from Via
look at the new Soltek boards (the best AMD boards at good prices)
they have been leading the way in AMD in the last few months
some have onboard graphics that is faster thhan a 64MB GeForce 4MX, witch would mean you'd save money and not have to buy a graphics card or you could buy a good graphics down the track

KiwiTT
10-07-2003, 12:13 PM
Go with the Athlon XP (Barton) 2800Mhz, This will kick Celeron to touch and give the latest P4 a run for it's money.

If you compared price/performance you can not go past an Athlon XP. Be sure you get a good mobo that fully supports the Barton. Either 333 or 400 Mhz FSB and the RAM to match.

Lohsing
10-07-2003, 12:38 PM
Hmmm... bit biased on the AMD side of things aren't we?? Well, I've got 3 P4's and 2 AMD's... Either computer is fine, although I prefer my P4's, but that's just me.

Price wise, the AMD is a bit cheaper, but with the new P4 C's having the HT technology in them, things are looking pretty good for Intel.

Either is fine, but for cost, you should look at an AMD system. If you don't mind spending a bit more, then go for a P4. While the AMD chip maybe faster in some benchmarks, you should remember that the majority of software nowadays is undoubtedly optimised for the Intel (Pentium) chips as opposed to AMD.

Lo.

KiwiTT
10-07-2003, 01:43 PM
Biased is probably right. I don't mean to be. I probably always like to support the underdog. Similar to my support of Linux.

However, in the original comparison of Celeron to Athlon XP, the Athlon XP is better.

P4 2.4 Ghz+ versions are better than the Athlon XP in most benchmarks at similar prices. Never actually looked at a full AMD to Intel comparison, i.e. AMD CPU, mobo and RAM vs Intel CPU, mobo and RAM. I wonder how the Intel would stack up here. When comparing CPUs you really need to look at all the costs.

Lohsing
10-07-2003, 01:47 PM
Pentium Celeron's (celeries I call 'em) suck big time... I'm crippled at work by having a 2.0Ghz Celeron with no AGP slot... :(

No FPS for me at lunch!! :p

kiwibeat
10-07-2003, 01:53 PM
If you want value for money go for the older Duron cpu its very cheap look on trademe.co.nz also get a older motherboard with a AGP slot and DDR ram ,lots of people are upgrading so prices are very cheap .
Its sometimes easier and cheaper to buy a whole system rather than parts and you can test it as well to ensure that it goes well before buying it. download Performance Tester off the net
http://www.passmark.com/

kiwibeat
10-07-2003, 01:59 PM
NB there are no stupid Questions , only stupid people refuse to ask questions and are more worried about their image rather than than learning something new every day

KiwiTT
10-07-2003, 02:27 PM
About buying built up as opposed to building self.

I totalled up all the components of a $4,000 PC and this compared to about $3,700 as individual components. With the $4,000 PC I got 3 years warranty and ensurance that all components would work together as the system was a runner when delivered.

I have seen PCs as low a $700 now. Duron's or Celeron's, I think tho.

However, If you want the challenge of building yourself, do your homework and select the right components for you want the PC to do.

Curious George
10-07-2003, 02:34 PM
I don't know if I would worry too much about just the CPU.
Make sure you get the best motherbord to do the things you want it to do.
Eg: I wish I had got one with on-board ethernet and raid.
Otherwise, I just have installed an Athlon 2500 Barton which if buying from new, seems to be best value for money.

Celerons are hopeless for gaming and Durons are dead in the water.
How about Soltek SL-75MRN-L? $220. 2500 Barton $200. 512 333Mhz mem $120. Any flavour hdd/cd/dvd you like, mix into a case; vola! Enjoy.

If fiddling with pcs is your new hobby, whatever you get, you will probably want to change it within to long anyway.
At a guess, the entire new box could be had for $600-$700 +gst?

If fiddling with pcs is your new hobby, whatever you get, you will probably want to change it within to long anyway.

If you really wanted to skimp, use your old cd/hdd/monitor/kboard/mouse/etc?
Buy new ones when you have the money.

the highlander
10-07-2003, 08:17 PM
" Anyway,the atholon spanks the celeron and the p4,so ya cant go wrong "

The celeron yes.
The P4. Whatever !

Celerons fill an important niche though. Where else can you get a chip for less than 200 bucks and overclock to 3000+ on air with a stock cooler. The posing value is immense even though they still run like a gutted dog.

If you can afford it buy a northwood p4, The 2.4s are an excellent chip and ripe for overclocking. If you cant an Athlon is a fine alternative.

Pete O\'Neil
10-07-2003, 09:19 PM
"Where else can you get a chip for less than 200 bucks and overclock to 3000+ on air with a stock cooler"

AMD Athlon to be precise, I've got a 1800+(payed $140) now sitting up at 2.2ghz(3200+). Celeron in my opinion have NO place in the market, the Athlon is a superiror chip all round that for a similar price can often bet out a P4

Lohsing
10-07-2003, 09:22 PM
With a stock air cooler?? Doubt it.

Lo.

Pete O\'Neil
10-07-2003, 09:27 PM
yip stock cooler on there and everything. EPOX 8RDA+(modded NB cooler) 512mb Kingston Hyper X PC3500 and random other assorted peices.

Lohsing
10-07-2003, 09:35 PM
And the temperature of your CPU is...?

Lo.

Pete O\'Neil
10-07-2003, 09:58 PM
37c when surfing the net doin random windows type stuff
42c after some BF1942 and classic UT

the highlander
13-07-2003, 11:08 PM
"Where else can you get a chip for less than 200 bucks and overclock to 3000+ on air with a stock cooler"

> AMD Athlon to be precise, I've got a 1800+(payed $140) now sitting up at 2.2ghz(3200+). Celeron in my opinion have NO place in the market, the Athlon is a superiror chip all round that for a similar price can often bet out a P4 <


Like I said. "Where else can you get a chip for less than 200 bucks and overclock to 3000+ on air with a stock cooler" not a PR rating, an actual 3000+ reading on post.
Yes an athlon is definitely a superior chip to a celeron in every aspect except reliability and cpu operating temps which is why they are a popular choice for workstations and home elcheapo systems. They are a cpu that is at a disadvantage in running many applications but the buyers of systems made up from these cpus:
1. Often wouldn't notice the difference
2. Dont care because they rarely use those applications that celerons run
poorly.
3. Are happy to have a relatively powerful intel cpu that is within the
price range they can afford. And when i mean relatively I mean in the
context of a person who has a cyrix 333 system (another PR rating )
and upgrades to a celeron. To a person in those circumstances a
celeron is sheer magic.
Yep I also know that i could do an an athlon upgrade for a similar price and it would slap down any celeron based system but since I only charge them the cost of the parts plus a carrot cake for my labour( a hobby) I really dont want to see the system back in again for repairs and I find that I rarely if ever see a celeron based system again.

mejobloggs
14-07-2003, 12:40 AM
I say if your going for Athlon, you shoud definately get Barton.

Also, about the Athlon 2200, and 2400.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/index.html
Go to the comparison table at the bottom.

The comparison shows that the 2200 beats the 2400. Dunno if this is true, but thats what this chart says.

There is also some newer comparisons with the Atlhon 3200 somewhere.