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csinclair83
29-04-2003, 05:53 PM
How are u all saving power these days since its now a 10% requirement...

all I am doing is sitting in the dark while on computer...i know its bad for eyes but every bit of darkness counts...and keeping everything off...say i dont use printer..off it goes...and stuff like that...i unplug everything after last usuage...or switch off at wall...like tv...computer...stuff like that :-)

somebody
29-04-2003, 06:00 PM
Very Very good. Good to see that other people are also saving power (I haven't been so drastic).

I don't think you should use your computer in the dark. Even a small desklamp would save hundreds of dollars in bills for glasses:D:D

robsonde
29-04-2003, 06:48 PM
strange how we can justify using a computer by turning off lights :-)

as for me i have shut down my 2 other computers and now work in the dark from a laptop.

andy
29-04-2003, 07:20 PM
I think its all a crock of Shite. The amount of savings that domestic consumers can achieve is minimal - anyone who cares is already saving all they can because it saves money. The problem is in the commercial and industrial sectors. The local foodtown supermarket has a sign illuminated by 5 x 275 watt floodlamps going day and night. This one sign wastes more power during daylight hours, when the lights have no effect anyway, than our household of three adults uses in total! I approached the manager about it last week but its still on, and a lot of other businesses are the same. I think maybe we should boycott any business seen to be wasting power, then see how they react.
andy

Chilling_Silently
29-04-2003, 07:24 PM
Ive gone and set all mine to go into Power Save modes a whole lot quicker... Hibernating them if I know Im going away for more than 30 mins :-)

Clueless
29-04-2003, 07:30 PM
I'm just making a larger effert to turn lites off if unneeded. Its all i can do! I'm already cooking with Gas and heating with an open fire, which is very naughty in CHCH....

.Clueless

robsonde
29-04-2003, 07:59 PM
well said andy!!

i have seen many local shops that are lit up like a xmas tree all night long.

Tobas
29-04-2003, 08:09 PM
Oh I have to agree with Andy, the amount you and I can save is minimal compared to many commercial sites. Yeah, I know a watt saved here and there eventally mounts up and may mean our lights stay on a bit longer. Big deal.

NIWA (?), the long time ahead weather predicting organisation said long ago that this would happen (storage water shortage), and what have the Governments done about it in the meantime - nothing at all. Instead, they wait untill the last moment (intentionally?), to announce power problems in the immediate future, Geez. Everybody panics, prowling around switching things off saying "Didn't I do well"

The problem is with those idiots that most of you (and me too), voted for at the last two elections and now we reap the rewards!!!!!

For God's sake - change the Government at the first opportunity - but who to? Well that's another question.

Fire retardant clothing now being worn :-)

Baldy
29-04-2003, 08:26 PM
Well said Andy!

I noticed this evening that the Dunedin City Council turned on all Dunedin street lights at 5.45pm when it was still resonably light. I am going to give the Mayor a phonecall tomorrow and give her a burst of "Baldy" logic!

bmason
29-04-2003, 08:26 PM
I was thinking the same thing last year about otago uni's computer labs.

All the monitors run 24/7 without powering down. At 100watts each they are burning a lot of power (plus helps to make the labs increadably hot).

The computers themselves could probably be powered down over night too.

-=JM=-
29-04-2003, 08:40 PM
Well I thought that I might buy some more computers and run them air cooled and overclock them a lot. That way I'll be producing enough heat in my room to not need a heater :D

bmason
29-04-2003, 08:54 PM
yeah, I was hoping my new athlon would put out a bit more heat. I was actually planning to try redirecting the hot air from the PSU towards my feet/hands.

Poppa John
29-04-2003, 09:58 PM
Once upon a time there was an outfit called NZ Electricity Dept which "Owned" on our behalf, all the Power Stations in NZ. These Power Stations where built by the Ministry of Works. Naturally with the approval on the Govt on The day, to whom the NZED & MOW belonged. Some will say that these outfits where inefficient & self serving. However the NZED kept track of demand & had a new Power Station in the pipeline.
Now we have a proliferation of Power Makers & Power Sellers All SUPPOSEDLEY in competition!!! None of these Power Makers is big enough to build a new Power Staion of any consequence. So now what??
We are encouraged at ALL times ( except now oddly) to USE USE Power. Why ? To make a profit to send overseas or to "GIVE" to the Govt of the Day.
I along with 18 other Electricians & families were
Imported" to work on the DC Cook Strait power cable job. At the Benmore Dam & Haywards substation. This was 1964. When Benmore was finished the next Power station was Aviemore, downstream from Benmore on the Waitaki river.The next I believe was Manapouri. I also worked on this one in 1969. I know it has been "Improved" with another tailrace tunnel to make Manapouri more efficient. Correct me if I am wrong but that is the last Hydro Power Station built in NZ. The very last PS was Huntly Gas Fired Power Station. Other than the small "Private" or Local Use Oil or Gas stations dotted around ( such as Otara) there has not been a Power Station or Generating Facility of any consequnce built. Have I got it right??
NZs population has been growing, & not secretely either.
Our power usage will naturally increase. Have the people responsible for ensuring NZ has sufficient Electric Power to Function been doing their job? Obviously not. It is no good saying we waste power at home when, as an earlier Post says, Commercial signs etc are consuming far more power than us domestics are. The LACK OF HYDRO STATION WATER has been known for a long time now. Has anything been done about it? Auckland was having a similar prblem with drinking water, as is Wanganui at the moment. This has been corrected in Auckland & being so in Wanganui. Auckland knew it was not getting enough rainwater to fill the dams. How come Auckland knew about rainfall & the Power Makers didn't?
So two years ago, here we go again!!!! I don't want to hear this Crap from the Govt & Power Makers about the shortage of Hydro Water. You cannot have water in the dam if you want money in the bank. For crying out loud build more Power Supply, be it Hydro, Wind or Sea made.
Right I've had my Whinge, vented my spleen, & will probably now be "got at" Poppa John X-( X-(

cyberchuck
29-04-2003, 10:05 PM
Wow Poppa John that was awesome...
Something like that would be great for my upcoming History Project!
Thanks for all that info - and don't worry about been "got at" - I think it's Chucky Hunting Season... ;)


CyberChuck

Baldy
29-04-2003, 10:12 PM
A nuclear power station in every city would be the way to go. The are very safe with todays technology

Clueless
29-04-2003, 10:20 PM
There was talk of damning the Ngakawau river north of Westport for hydro power. Sure it wouldn't be the biggest project ever, but it made sense in terms of being on the side of the mountain that gets the most rain, particually when the East Coast isn't.. That was about 10+ years ago. Like most thing West Coastish, talk is as far as it got.

:(

.Clueless

bba12
29-04-2003, 10:21 PM
I agree entirely. Apparently Green Peace in Europe has (reluctantly) agreed that nuclear is (a lot) greener than most other schemes. Wind farms - vast, noisy, very difficult to generate a reasonable amount of power. Coal, oil, gas - greenhouse gases, other pollutants. Hydro - not good flooding all those invaluable habitats. Solar - too expensive. Waves / tides - waste the coastline habitats. Geothermal - not enough. Fusion - how many more years?? I can't believe we live in a first world country and have to think of developing clockwork or peddle power PCs!!!

Poppa John
29-04-2003, 10:25 PM
Hi Baldy. I wonder if thats what we are being "Conditioned" for? It isn't likely to happen until the Public At Large is seriously inconvenienced. The new modern Nuclear PS are very safe. Sort of. But the Nuclear part of it is still very scary. You cannot flush that waste down the Loo either. I recommend that a Nuclear PS be built on the Coromandel. There is noone out there who would object, is there ]:) ]:) Poppa John

mikebartnz
29-04-2003, 10:29 PM
>>The local foodtown supermarket has a sign illuminated by 5 x 275 watt floodlamps going day and night.

That is nothing to what so many councils are wasting (eg. In Masterton there are a whole lot of street lamps which have an additional dozen or so bulbs on them. Carterton has their tree in the square still lit up) To me it is a joke when they ask the householder to save 10% if they are not wasteing it in the first place they can't save it. It is businesses that waste most of the power. Have any of them thought of using sensor lights.

mikebartnz
29-04-2003, 10:36 PM
Well said Poppa John oh! for the good old days when common sense came before profit.

Susan B
30-04-2003, 09:28 AM
> Wind farms - vast, noisy, very difficult to generate a reasonable amount of power.

It will be interesting to see the results of the windmill going up on Banks Peninsula soon. They are expecting it to be highly successful.

Clueless
30-04-2003, 09:54 AM
Surely wind farms can never be the end all solution? They do the exact opposite of what is really wanted from any power gereation system; they produduce elctricity when the wind is blowing, not when demand says "let that water flow" Having siad that their unreliable and intermittant contribution can help to feed the grid, but as we don't want to see our light bulbs all blowing every time theres a good gust of wind, surely they can only be a small contributer?

.Clueless

godfather
30-04-2003, 10:57 AM
Larger scale wind farms do produce very significant volumes of electricity.

They are not a panacea however, as they (like solar power) are dependent on weather. They do allow hydro to be conserved but there is no over-arching process to co-ordinate generation dispatch by energy source (its done on pricing, not suitability)

There is no occurrence of "light bulbs blowing" as outputs of commercial wind turbines are fully voltage regulated.

Clueless
30-04-2003, 11:36 AM
Godfather.. Does this mean that a small windfarm owned by a "local power retailer" might be an option as it would be generating some of its own power rather than purely onselling someone elses, but nothing but a pain for a power wholesaler?

Forgive my ignorance when it comes to the politics/commercial structure of our electricity suppliers.

.Clueless

andy
30-04-2003, 12:43 PM
I think the suggestion of pissing us off to the point where we will accept nuclear generators probably has some substance (anyway, I enjoy a good conspiracy theory).
Personally, I don't have a problem with the nuclear option. Here in Hamilton, the river level is being kept so low that the paddle steamer that operates here hardy has enough water to float in. This is also our drinking water and it is deteriorating because the flow rate is being held back by the generators. All our major rivers are similar - we've done the hydro to death so we have no choice but to consider other options. I 'll put money on the most ardent of greenies bleating loudly when their power turns off - how are they going to run the agri-lights over the wardrobe weed patch then eh?
I hear we are now importing coal from Oz to run some power stations - like we don't have any here already. I guess the problem is like a lot of other industries. The mines closed so the miners went to Oz where the work is!
I don't believe that it was the current government that privatised the power generation industry, but they certainly haven't fixed it. I was just listening to the news on the radio - an item about saving more power, and then immediately after the bulletin, an advert from the local energy company telling us that electricity is the way to go and people should heat their new houses with it! Who is kidding who here - there is never going to be any push for savings coming from the people who are selling the stuff, is there?

andy

Clueless
30-04-2003, 01:38 PM
I was just visting a freind who owns a house with a fire place with wetback to heat the hot water here in CHCH.

Chch council says this will be illegal 2006.. One hopes that there will be sufficiant power generation to replace these energy sources by then? Fat chance unless something starts getting built real soon!

.Clueless

godfather
30-04-2003, 01:50 PM
> Does this mean that a small windfarm
> owned by a "local power retailer" might be an option
> as it would be generating some of its own power
> rather than purely onselling someone elses, but
> nothing but a pain for a power wholesaler?

There are no power companies that do not own generation.
Some have more generation available after they have satisfied their own Customers needs (Meridian, Contact, Genesis)

Some have to purchase extra to suppliment their own (TrustPower)

Some "brands" are not what you think (Empower is owned by Contact, Fresh Start and Bay Of Plenty Electricity are both owned by Todd, First Electric, Auckland Energy and Mercury Energy are owned by Mighty River Power, Energy Online has recently been purchased by Genesis.)

In reality all Power Retailers are also Generators to some extent (Gentailers), So owning a wind farm could be attractive depending on the cost per kWh.

Do not confuse Retailers with Networks (Orion, Vector, Powerco etc) as Networks have severe limitations on owning generators and the cannot sell electricity to anyone, only "convey" it on their lines for Retailers.

Likewise Retailers are not allowed to own lines, but can own generation

Terry Porritt
30-04-2003, 02:18 PM
It isn't fair to blame the government either, as Poppa John said, once upon a time long long ago, in another galaxy even, we had NZED which WAS a direct govt. dept. under govt. control, but the New Right dissociated government from responsibilities and direct hands on control IN THE NAME OF EFFICIENCY. Lets all blame Max Bradford :)

Where the government has been failing is in setting a lead, and using a bit of imaginative brain power.

The major problem with wind power is storage. In the UK one method of load sharing was the concept of pumped storage such as at Cruachan in Scotland where during the day water from a high level lake ran water turbines ( English Electric and AEI) to generate power, Then at night the same turbines were run as pumps taking surplus electrical power from the grid to pump water from a low level lake back up to the high one.
The system worked well.

If suitable lakes could be found or made here, then the power generated by wind turbines could be stored.

In the mean time if everyone downgraded their computers to P100s, the CPUs would only be taking a few amps, instead of the 40 -60 amps of the current whiz-bangs :)
Or even everyone use 386s

Clueless
30-04-2003, 02:29 PM
>In the mean time if everyone downgraded their computers to P100s, the CPUs would only be taking a few amps, instead of the 40 -60 amps of the current whiz-bangs
Or even everyone use 386s

NO

.Clueless

Terry Porritt
30-04-2003, 02:31 PM
Why not? Windows 3.11 and 4 MB RAM should be enough for anyone!

Graham L
30-04-2003, 02:44 PM
Max Bradford says the market works. He was prepared to bet that the new improved system his crooked business mates wanted would lead to cheaper power. He made a major bet with our money. We lost.

We have a good source of fuel for thermal stations: useless politicians, and the majority of overpaid managers, bankers, accountants, public relationers, "consultants" and "economists". The fat would burn well, but the pollution might be bad.

Clueless
30-04-2003, 03:01 PM
> We have a good source of fuel for thermal stations: useless politicians, and the majority of overpaid managers, bankers, accountants, public relationers, "consultants" and "economists". The fat would burn well, but the pollution might be bad

I thought harnessing the hot air from the beehive would have done the trick without actually burning anyone!

:D
.Clueless

andy
30-04-2003, 04:38 PM
Why should the power suppliers build new generation? They are doing alright now because demand has pushed the price through the roof and they're making a fortune with no extra expenditure. The free market is a wonderful idea and has nothing to do with customer care when the customers can't go anywhere else!

andy

cyberchuck
30-04-2003, 07:17 PM
I've just started paying attention to the power that get's wasted at school (I'm at a College in Auckland). There are lights left on in the corridors when there needn't be, teachers are leaving the lights on over interval and lunch (which is only a measly 30 minutes for each), and the monitors in the IT Block are those monitors which are always on standby - you can't effictively turn them off. I'm sure that if these were all successfully maintained then our school would atleast be doing something for the cause... I suppose the worst thing at the end of the day is the fact that the majority of the lights at school have the potential to be switched on and off by students - the switches are just in the halls and easily accessible...
Only last week I saw a fire hose that had a screw put through it - don't think it's been fixed yet either.


CyberChuck

mikebartnz
02-05-2003, 12:40 AM
That is true Clueless . Friends of mine were quoted $22,000 to get power to their house and they thought what a waste and bought two solar panels and a windmill plus a generator for emergency. Having looked after their place several times I have been very impressed and they must be feeling very smug at the moment.

Clueless
02-05-2003, 08:23 AM
I have a friend on the wild wet coast who was quoted a similar price to get power from the grid to his land. He could see the 11,000v lines from his site, but there were going to be a couple of extra poles needed, and a transformer for him.

Living near an closed ex-hydro power staion he decided the best thing to do was to buy several hundred metres of 40mm alcathene pipe to carry water from the old dam, and squirt the water at a small turbine that he built himself. The generator itself is car alternator, but when i last saw him was about to become a modified washing machine motor. The alternater produces a constant 200 watts or so. This charges 2 12 volt car batterys. These of course dont have to be new as they are only buffers, rather than something that has to hold a charge for a month like a vehicle battery is expected to do. A small inverter ($300?) provides power at 230v when needed for sundry toys, and of course his dwelling uses 12v flouresent lites and 12v appliances were ever possible.

A small petrol gererator is still used sometimes for welding and power tools. Gas and wood are used for cooking heating etc.

There is a power regulation device that wastes excess generation by heating his outhouse.

The surplus is expected to increase with the washine machine motor as the new generator, and he was considering using the excess to heat hot water in summer.

He will also be able to run a machine waching machine powering the modified motor directly from his generator, and allowing the house to run from the batterys while he does his waching. At the moment he has to use the 230v generator for the washing machine.

Overall power costs for my freind are much lower than you and i will be paying, yet he has all the things we expect.

His neighbour who is down hill from him is about to build, and was quoted an unaffordible price to get power from the grid to his site. There is 5 points offered to the first person to guess what my freind will be doing with the water collected in a 40 gallon drum that has been through his turbine. (Clue: it involves 40mm alcathene pipe, and another turbine)

.Clueless

-=JM=-
02-05-2003, 02:41 PM
I know a few people that have the turbine set up out in the Marlborough Sounds. Always used to be rather annoying turning up at school and bitching about how you missed The Simpsons as there was a power cut. They laugh as they had power through the whole thing 8).

Though I think that getting the power hooked up out at our place was one of the best things they ever did though. If you go about it the right way it doesn't cost too much. Well it didn't back then anyway.

Graham L
02-05-2003, 02:53 PM
Them was the days, JM. It was government policy to get power to everyone in the country. This meant heavy subsidies for the remote places. It was justified as leading to development of the country.

Then the "new economy" greed market arrived. There's nothing new about greed. That's why governments had to regulate the crooks. We are repeating the process of previous centuries.

wintertide
02-05-2003, 02:56 PM
I used to work at the Manurewa High School in Auckland, and everyday we used to turn off all the PCs around the school by way of a big main switch. Don't know how much power that saved, though, as the servers chewed through electricity.

csinclair83
02-05-2003, 02:57 PM
geneisis is putting power prices up for taranaki down to manawatu...residental 7% increase as of 8 june and commercial 11% as of 1st july

-=JM=-
02-05-2003, 03:40 PM
>> Them was the days, JM. It was government policy to get power to >>everyone in the country.

Well there were 3 houses in the area where I'm talking about. Well 3 houses up the one drive. It took months of organising and lots of battles. Names in the papers and the works if I remember correctly. But in the end it got hooked up like a farm does.

So they're only providing power to one point. Then we ran our own cables (well someone we knew) to the three houses and they've all got there own meters on them.

Someone just pays the bulk of the bills then at some later stage all sort it out and pay money to who they owe it to. Works quite well reallly..... until you fall out with one of the neighbours that is :D

stu140103
02-05-2003, 04:44 PM
> Someone just pays the bulk of the bills then at some
> later stage all sort it out and pay money to who they
> owe it to. Works quite well reallly..... until you
> fall out with one of the neighbours that is :D

:D hehe.... How many times did that happen???? :p

-=JM=-
02-05-2003, 05:32 PM
> > Someone just pays the bulk of the bills then at
> some
> > later stage all sort it out and pay money to who
> they
> > owe it to. Works quite well reallly..... until you
> > fall out with one of the neighbours that is :D
>
> :D hehe.... How many times did that happen???? :p
>


Well things Like that are always going to occur when people live out in the "wop wops" for a long period of time. The powerbill always still gets sorted out though.

mikebartnz
03-05-2003, 10:27 AM
Back then even if you generated your own power down Marlborough Sounds way you still had to pay for it.

somebody
03-05-2003, 10:47 AM
Streetlights should be kept on for safety/security reasons. It's the lights in council buildings which I think is stupid. Many councils keep ALL the interior lights on all night, when there's nobody there.

Lights outside for safety/security shouldn't be turned off. It's the lights in unnecessary places that should be turned off.

somebody
03-05-2003, 10:54 AM
I disagree about wind farms. The wind farm just outside Palmerston North made a profit after 2 years of operating. They're in remote locations out of people's way, they DON'T generate any pollutants, and they add power to the national grid. Apparently someone's planning to build one up by Te Pohue (on SH5 between Napier and Taupo).

Hydro is good, as it also has no pollutants. Flooding a bit of land here and there is OK, as it's better than coal/gas/oil, and as long as the land was rightfully purchased.

Waves/tide - technology at the moment isn't able to make maximum use out of it (I think).

somebody
03-05-2003, 11:03 AM
I don't think "amps" is the right word.

Should be "watts"

somebody
03-05-2003, 11:06 AM
well a couple of servers would use less power than several rooms filled with computers:D

And most servers are run without monitors, so that saves more power as well.

We tend to go through lots of light bulbs - students enjoy switching lights on... and off... and on... and off... and on... and off... and on... and off.

Epsilon
03-05-2003, 12:10 PM
Clueless - It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

To quote you "Like most thing West Coastish, talk is as far as it got." -- If you are up with West Coast politics -- and for the geographically challenged, Ngakawau is in Northern Buller and is not considered a part of the West Coast (you have to live on the Coast to understand that) -- Buller Electricity's proposed Ngakawau hydro scheme involved flooding conservation land and was rejected by the then Conservation Minister Denis Marshall in 1995. I am sure that the proposal had nothing to do with Bullerite's constructing the thing themselves, and therefore, leaving it at the 'talking' stage.

There is a similar scheme proposed for the Grey District, the Dobson Hydro Dam, which once again involves flooding approx 250ha of an ecological area and reducing the flow of the affected river by approx two thirds -- think of the impact on the forests of the valley floor (which is mainly rimu, kahikatea and matai), recreational users and the aquatic inhabitants -- Chris Carter's decline of this scheme is for similar reasons as Denis Marshall's decline of the Ngakawau hydro project.

Despite the fact that the Dobson scheme has the potential to destroy a valuable ecological area, Chris Carter could use his powers of dispensation to give the project the green light, given enough pressure from MP's who support the Dobson scheme.

Dyan
03-05-2003, 12:48 PM
Tena koe Epsilon...

I tautoko your korero, and am always pleased to see fact rather than fiction presented here, or anywhere else for that matter...

Given enough pressure from MP's who support the Dobson scheme. Anything to do with casting the vote net?

We've been graced by the presence of Bill English, Gerry Brownlee and Nick Smith who inspected the proposed Dobson Hydro Dam site yesterday. There have been murmurs of legislation changes to overturn Chris Carter's party decision, but as you pointed out, Chris Carter can overturn his own decision. Rod Donald's Green party is against the project, and rightly so due to the ecological destruction, and has said that his party would support investigations into alternative energy sources. Rod was also visiting the site yesterday, but no mention if he was a part of the 'other' contingent...

Anyway, should be interesting to watch the proceedings. Trustpower has already wielded their ability to restrict our power usage by cutting hot water heating by 11 hours a day with the following fine words "we don't want to start forcing things on people". Ah, ya gotta luv 'em...

And Andy, I also enjoy a good conspiracy theory... we might just get to glow in the dark one day...

Naku iti nei na
Dyan

wintertide
03-05-2003, 01:01 PM
Hey... we're talking about 10 servers here... and the monitors are always on... and the technicians comuters are always on as well...

Clueless
03-05-2003, 01:08 PM
Epsilon...

>Ngakawau is in Northern Buller and is not considered a part of the West Coast (you have to live on the Coast to understand that)

[b] I lived in Millerton, a Small town on the West Coast up on the hills overlooking Granity and Ngakawau for 7+ years before moving to my cave in Chch. [b]

On a good day you could see Australia from up that hill (OK not really but we loved telling that to visitors)

I suppose my son who lives in Seddinville isn't on the West Coast either then. Perhaps my map is mirrored then, Left is west isn't it? I'm sure someone told me that sea thing by the beach had oz on the other side... I'd better check this out on a map just to be sure.

When i'm out of town, i'm usually in Greymouth? I see that you allow that to be officially the west coast.

.Clueless

somebody
03-05-2003, 01:11 PM
10!!!!!!!!! Why don't they turn the monitors off, unless they're using them? Maybe a KVM switch??

still... 10 is better than 100

Clueless
03-05-2003, 02:12 PM
Epsilon.

Is This town (http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/chchgig/map2millerton.jpg) on the east or the west?

.Clueless

Epsilon
03-05-2003, 02:28 PM
Yes, Clueless, -- and like I said, you have to live there to understand the difference. Greymouth is usually associated with the 'West Coast' -- Anything north of Punakaiki is heading into Buller territory, which the Bullerites claim proudly as their own. When someone says, "I live on the West Coast", they usually mean south of that point, or thereabouts. When someone says "I live in Buller", they really mean that they live in Buller, and very rarely refer to their neck of the woods as "the West Coast" even though its geographical orientation is western.

My origins? Buller, and a long line of mining stock. You were probably an immigrant to this area as you appear unaware of the charming parochialism. And this takes the post Off Topic -- Epsilon

Dyan
03-05-2003, 02:47 PM
Sorry, Chris/Clueless, I agree with Epsilon on this one. I also come from northern Buller mining stock as well as tangata whenua from northern Buller to the southern tip of Westland. Putting ALL whakapapa aside, it does appear to come down to "charming parochialism" and perhaps always will.

Dyan

-=JM=-
03-05-2003, 03:14 PM
west cost == the cost on the west side.

Thats how I've always looked at it. It's just that generally the West Coast is referred to as the Greymouth/Hokitika area.

E.ric
03-05-2003, 03:55 PM
You could ask "how are you wasting power"

I know someone who has a 100 Watt lamp in there toilet.

Greg S
03-05-2003, 04:19 PM
I have the ultimate solution - but it needs a bit of work. Someone should invent a device that captures all the hot air vented from PressF1 users whenever posting to an OT subject, and channel it into a mill that generates electricity - jeez there'd be enough to power the USA!

Greg S
03-05-2003, 04:23 PM
> There are no power companies that do not own
> generation.
> Some have more generation available after they have
> satisfied their own Customers needs (Meridian,
> Contact, Genesis)
>
> Some have to purchase extra to suppliment their own
> (TrustPower)
>
> Some "brands" are not what you think (Empower is
> owned by Contact, Fresh Start and Bay Of Plenty
> Electricity are both owned by Todd, First Electric,
> Auckland Energy and Mercury Energy are owned by
> Mighty River Power, Energy Online has recently been
> purchased by Genesis.)
>
> In reality all Power Retailers are also Generators to
> some extent (Gentailers), So owning a wind farm could
> be attractive depending on the cost per kWh.
>
> Do not confuse Retailers with Networks (Orion,
> Vector, Powerco etc) as Networks have severe
> limitations on owning generators and the cannot sell
> electricity to anyone, only "convey" it on their
> lines for Retailers.
>
> Likewise Retailers are not allowed to own lines, but
> can own generation

I always like a typically well-thought response from GF

Epsilon
03-05-2003, 04:59 PM
> Someone should invent a device that captures
> all the hot air vented from PressF1 users whenever
> posting to an OT subject

I assume the device would also capture all the hot air vented on On Topic posts from PF1 users as well?

Greg S
03-05-2003, 05:01 PM
> I assume the device would also capture all the hot
> air vented on On Topic posts from PF1 users as well?

Natch! :D

Greg S
03-05-2003, 05:02 PM
> I know someone who has a 100 Watt lamp in there
> toilet.

"All the better to see you with, my dear"
:D

Baldy
03-05-2003, 06:08 PM
> > I know someone who has a 100 Watt lamp in there
> > toilet.
>
> "All the better to see you with, my dear"
> :D

I've got a heat lamp in mine. The loo is a great place for a read

Greg S
03-05-2003, 06:13 PM
> I've got a heat lamp in mine.

Now, that's an outstanding idea - especially if it's an infra-red type, aimed at the back of your neck - how soothing :)

Every dedicated puter user should have one!

roofus
03-05-2003, 08:40 PM
Well a lot of different opinions here, all which in there own way are right.
However I don't think Nuclear will be required, the reason been is that our population is suppose to max out at 4.8Mill. So really all we need is another good sized hydro dam and we'll be right, sure there will be dry winters but we'll live.

Terry Porritt
03-05-2003, 08:46 PM
I thought I'd do my bit by getting a hot water cylinder wrap.

Now I'll have to go and buy a heater to keep the airing cupboard warm :D

roofus
03-05-2003, 09:01 PM
> I thought I'd do my bit by getting a hot water
> cylinder wrap.
>
> Now I'll have to go and buy a heater to keep the
> airing cupboard warm :D

lol
Another point also, there is a lot of scarmongering going on in the media. Comments like the hotwater cylinder will be turned off for days at time even!
Now if they were to do this, that would result in everyone turning on there kettles constantly for the whole day. Another words there would be no net savings made.
Honestly there are some really mentally challenged people in top positions these days.

Clueless
03-05-2003, 09:13 PM
>Now if they were to do this, that would result in everyone turning on there kettles constantly for the whole day. Another words there would be no net savings made.

I don't agree

Sure people would boil the jug to heat the water for the dishes, but if they were to boil the jug to wash themselves, i think it would be a sponge bath, and that uses LOTS less energy.

Been there done that. I lived without electricity or hot water on the West Coast. Quick washes were sponge baths using water heated on the gas cooker. Baths were heated with a fire underneath. Now that i live with the luxury of hot water on tap i waste heaps.

.Clueless

E.ric
03-05-2003, 11:20 PM
OK I first saw this posting the other day and I was not sure weather to be the first replier, But after thinking about my great power saving idea, I just have to let the cat out of the bag (if I had one)

What I have done to save power is to cut out a picture from the local newspaper and sellotape it across the television screen with anti-static sellotape. then leave the radio going 24 hours a day.

Now I can not tell the difference between what I see now and what used to be on TV a few weeks ago when I first put the picture across the TV screen. It looks just like the TV I used to watch a few months ago or last year for that matter.

PoWa
04-05-2003, 01:52 AM
In Invercargill, we got a taste of life in a third world country just a few days ago! Around 5:45pm on Friday, most of Invercargill was completely blacked out. Lasted for about half an hour, but its not all that fun to rely on candles and torches to live. Besides what can you eat for dinner if your whole city is powered down!? It ended up being some fault in the main line somewhere, but we thought Manapouri had run out of power or something. :p

Also if you were to go into the IT Labs at the Southern Institute of Technology, they have over 300 computers there powered up all day and all night churning up power. If SIT had a brain they would power down all the computers at about 10pm each night. The saving on that alone would provide power to about 100 houses, where it is really needed. Why should some of us suffer for their stupidity?

I agree with the streetsign displays as well. The stupid stores can give up their power hungry signs for a while. Who really pays attention to them anyway? When your driving by a sign, do you stop and think 'oooh I might go there cos of the nice flashing colourful sign'. No. The sign barely registers in your brain, unless you are specifically wanting to go to that shop.

Do we really need street lights on? Isn't that what car lights are for?? We can drive fine without them especially if you live out of town and there are none. Why not have just every second street light powered up?

Cheers :p

Susan B
04-05-2003, 11:46 AM
> I thought I'd do my bit by getting a hot water cylinder wrap.

> Now I'll have to go and buy a heater to keep the airing cupboard warm :D

I am in two minds about having one of those cylinder wraps. During winter down here the washing usually comes in a bit damp and if I were not able to "finish it off" in the nice warm cylinder cupboard I would have to put them in the dryer and that sucks power like nobody's business.

Our hot water cylinder is on night rate and is only running from 11pm to 7am anyway so I can't see how I can save power by having a wrap and using the dryer to finish off the clothes.

On the other side of the coin maybe the water would stay hotter in the cyclinder until I have had my shower instead of it sometimes going cold on me since I am usually the last one in.

Hmmm.... save power - (have a HOT) shower with a friend! :p :D

Baldy
04-05-2003, 12:40 PM
You can't go past a clothes horse, or one of those pull up to the ceiling drying thingees.

Cylinder wraps will be a fat lot of use when they turn the hotwater off for 18hours each day

Terry Porritt
04-05-2003, 01:05 PM
Susan and Baldy, Ive wrestled with this problem for over 40 years trying to decide what was best.
When we had central heating in UK, then the hot water tank was just another radiator and part of the house heating system as far as I was concerned.

Electically heated tanks were different too, they all had 5KW heaters not the ridiculously miserable 1KW we found when we came here, at least it's a 2 KW unit now. So with 5KW the water temperature would recover very quickly. The thermostat was also mounted from the top and reached down the tank, it was user adjustable, not like (again stupid) behind a cover mixed up with the heating element and only supposed to be adjusted by an electrician.

At our last house I compromised by having the lagging open at the top to keep the cupboard warm.
On balance by well insulating the tank, the water will keep warmer when the power goes off and less power will be used overall. If a separate heater is put into the airing cupboard then you have full control over the cupboard heating and it can be switched off during warm weather.

Dont buy a cupboard heater, use a towel rail, these cost less than half the price of a cupboard heater.
I put 2 in a wardrobe that tends to get damp and mouldy in winter, a total of just 80 watts, and it is now always dry and warm feeling.

I have sets of 2x 25 watt bulbs in series under certain chests of draws and a dressing table in our bedroom that also gets a bit cold and mildewy with a south wall and a small drainage creek next to it, ( about 1 meter away), That provides just the right amount of heat at very little power consumption to keep the drawers mildy warm and dry.

Neither did we have ripple control in UK, when I discovered that here, I thought it smacked of a communist state :)

E.ric
07-05-2003, 08:55 PM
Auckland is not interested in saving power,


On the way home from work about 6.00pm , there was office after office that had the office lights on, but nobody at home,

Auckland needs "power police" to save power.

Either that or "screen saver" type light switches, when someone goes out of the room, the lights automatically go out, With the motion-heat senser part of it been switched over to use in the bugler alarm over night.

Baldy
07-05-2003, 10:49 PM
Yes , shame on you Orklanders. You only saved 2% [according to 3News tonight] whereas, Otago/Southlanders saved almost 5%

I thought Orkland was supposed to be a hot climate compared to down here.

Baldy:-)

p/s: There is a rumour that Aucklanders are scared of the dark ;-)

godfather
07-05-2003, 11:04 PM
> Neither did we have ripple control in UK, when I
> discovered that here, I thought it smacked of a
> communist state :)

Terry, you often do not have to have ripple control. Most Retailers have tariffs that are not ripple controlled, but the price is not attractive.

For every kW of peak load Transpower (who run the national grid) charge about $85 per year. Typical waterheater elements are 3 kW, so uncontrolled you would be costing the Retailer $255 per year, without the cost of the energy or the remaining delivery charges.

Ripple control keeps a lid on these costs and NZ is lucky to have most Networks equipped with it. Networks would also need to spend millions just to cope with the uncontrolled peak, by installing larger cables, and guess who would be paying.

Unless they turn off waterheaters for more that 12 hours per day, little is saved, as it simply pushes the consumption into other parts of the day.

The savings figure is flawed as well, as its hard to compare given the highly variable weather patterns NZ have, where temperature and light variations exist within the same areas.

agent
07-05-2003, 11:08 PM
That rumour is completely false (with perhaps the exception of my sister, who uses a torch to climb up the ladder into her loft bed... don't ask me why, I mean, I could do it in the dark).

And I see Sky City is doing it's "little" bit: only lighting up the top half of Sky Tower. Now, I ask myself, WTF DON'T THEY JUST TURN ALL LIGHTING OFF AND ONLY USE THE FLASHING RED LIGHTS, THEY'RE JUST AS EFFECTIVE!

And now my opinion:
For a hell of a long time, my family has used less power than most people we know. We don't turn on lights unless they're needed, rarely watch TV (well, used to rarely watch it, now it's more like "tape it and watch it later", so we still watch it). I turn my monitor off all the time when I go away from my computer (after locking the comp, of course, so prying fingers can't change anything). Don't use hibernate, as it wastes 256MB of space on my C:.

Don't use excessive amounts of power.

Now, why the hell doesn't NZ harness the sea and use those "floating duck" devices that make power from the waves? I know! We're going to bring in a big ship to the Ports of Auckland and use it's generator to supply power, just like when we had that big fault in the power lines (mainly affecting the CBD) a few years back.

Now, let's analyse my school: lights (yes, fluorescent, but they still use power) are used uneccessarily. And we librarians have lately taken to flicking the lights on and off (admittedly, only while the staff weren't there...). And during lunchtime... THE WHOLE COMPUTER SUITE IS LEFT RUNNING, MONITORS AND ALL.

I ask you, which crazy Minister was sitting on the toilet when they decided not to act on analysis of our weather/power situation? I suppose Nando's been handing around his big joint or something.

If you ask me, I still think we should turn off the NIWA supercomputer. I wouldn't mind less accurate weather forecasts. And the steel mill, that apparently uses ~20MW of power every time it's run. In any case, we already know what winters' going to be like: rather warmer than usual, with the normal amount of rain. Oh fun, we've turned into a tropical monsoon country, I see. Hot and humid. Sweaty. Buses that are packed full of angry passengers and even angrier drivers.

Oh, the smell...

agent
07-05-2003, 11:20 PM
And while we're at it...

It should be compulsory to have windfarms on top of every large enough roof in Wellington. Now that's power for you.

nomad
07-05-2003, 11:39 PM
we use one heater - he studies.
no one else uses heater. one laptop on a few hrs a day. no desktop PC left on. no cordless fone. tv on like 2hr max a day, news and such for another hr. lounge no heater. generally 3 room wif lights on most.

what ya think about this. intead of punishing each person. we should figure out what amount is a resonable power usages per person in kW value. for those who cannot measure up to it will have x amount of hrs or mins no power each day - not defined at sleeping times. people should be responsible and accept liability than accepting other people to do their savings for them. being a north islander myself i believe people in the S and N Island should not be paying more for power. it should be the same.

this means everyone can live with a reasonable level power than using the 10% figure. which some people are heavy h users and some are low l users like the elderly, poor, students. exceptions businesses, people who contact officials and have evidence for such like business, health, elderly etc..

Nomad.

agent
07-05-2003, 11:45 PM
> it should be the same.

So, basically, we should change our government system to be semi-communist?

agent
07-05-2003, 11:47 PM
*Brings out Australian side*

Australia beckons, with nice fine weather...

nomad
07-05-2003, 11:51 PM
why should some be charge more than others using the same amount of power?? heck it takes more resoirces pumpin tthe damn thing to N Island than jus to S Island.

do we charge a customer more/less depending on location? like telephone.

does any one object to that is its unfair specifying a reasonable amount of kW each household should use?? i find it unfair each household need to reduce 10% if ya poor student flat or if u have 5 tv's, surrround sound and 5 PCs netowkred to play games. one can turn down a few PCs and others to forgo shower?? is that it.

twelvevolts
07-05-2003, 11:57 PM
My electric blanket is warming up the bed while the electric heater is on high and the computer is all systems go. Let's go NUCLEAR and have a genuine FREE Market.

nomad
07-05-2003, 11:58 PM
heck we even turn all the appliances off at the wall too. :D

agent
07-05-2003, 11:58 PM
Oh, well, yes.

So we should shut down 80% of the cybercafes. After all, they are, on average, largely empty, have many high-spec computers with many attached devices running, and there are far too many.

And there was Telecom's fiasco with "unknown services" with 30000 Aucklanders... that could be unfair billing.

nomad
08-05-2003, 12:01 AM
the plan i proposed will be great for u :D

agent
08-05-2003, 12:04 AM
Personally, I find turning appliances off at the wall absolutely ridiculous. All it does for the majority of appliances in my houses is reset the clock, causing me to internall swear when I see an LCD flashing "12:00" at me.

And for my stereo/CD player/computer/computer speakers/electric blanket/lamp... they don't use power when they're off, as far as I know, as they don't have and LCD displays etc that stay on.

raddersnz
08-05-2003, 03:09 AM
> Comments like the hotwater
> cylinder will be turned off for days at time even!

And who is going to come into my home and turn off my hot-water cylinder?:|
Just try and get past me.
There is 1 power feed to the house, which is controlled at the junction box. It is then fed through the fuse box, and to each port on the fuse box some power can be obtained.
So the only way we can turn off a hot-water cylinder is at the wall - usually a switch below the cylinder somewhere. Since the only way someone could turn off my hot water source is either breaking and entering or cutting my supply, either path is going to draw serious dissaproval.
I am a low consumption user, and was annoyed when we blacked out at approximately 6pm Wed 7th.
This was apparently a fault somewhere in the line which was up again after 7pm. However, I think there was some construction going on at Eastgate, to which the fault could have orriginated.

And now I start to ramble:
>> >(this is only an idea, and ideas are never researched)

Late last month, New Zealand was abuzz with the news of reaching 4million residents - is that how many people are in NZ, or how many NZer's.
Anyway, the government seem pleased (as they should) that our community is growing (more people for the benefit eh?:|). We need to be realistic, and let more people in too. For all you out there who hate immigrants, and yet hate our economy more, need to pick which one they would rather have (or not have if you can see where I'm going).
Back when America started its influx of immigrants, they must have realised the benefits. Now they are reaping them - or more speciffically their descendants. (it pained me to use that example). I will give you a visual of the impact:
Johnny has 128MB Ram, 1GHz Athlon, 30GB HDD.
Walter has 512GB Ram, 1THz Thunderbird, 100TB HDD
Now who's computer is worth more? In two years, who's computer will still be running.
If NZ had more residents, our economy would improve. However, this would only occur over time. We need to realise that people are a commodity, and so jobs are a worry. But with more people, more abodes, education, community, and shopping are needed, and those jobs are self replicating.

But here is where it gets iffy. Since man *(you feminists should just relax - after all, you are men too) is made up of approximately 75% of water (off the top of my head, so don't quote me), we are using up all the H2O in the atmosphere. I am not sure, but I don't think there is an infinite supply of H2O. I more so believe that we are one with the nature, and the nature is one with us. We are using up the resources of the Earth and not just the oil. Some people wonder why the globe is warming. I prefer to wonder if it warms to much, what will happen. Since the population of Earth is increasing, the polar ice-caps are decreasing. Once they have gone, what then?:| Will we be able to go on living?:| Or will we ship it in from other planets:O

Now I will start to draw my ranting to a close. Like I said, we have more people. We have less water. And at the moment we have a power crisis. This crisis is brought about from the stupidity of both government, and business mind alike. If the government had not privatised the power sector, it would still probably be in trouble, but they would (should) have made it work for us. Since it is privately run though, it should (could) have made money for the owners. If the owners had realised that the country was growing, we could be blissfully taking 30min showers every day. What is needed is a renewable efficient abundant source of energy. I have heard some people utter the word "nuclear" lately. That is just ridiculous. We have a few plantations of Wind Farms somewhere in the country (if anyone could help) and many Hydro-Electric Dams. Ooops. Aren't we using up a large part of that last power source. I think we need to build more hydro-turbines, not more dams.
If we line up several turbines, feeding each other, could we not make a sustainable resource?:| We already have a few canal systems in place, so setup would be minimal.
I have a basic concept on the fundamentals of Solar power. I wonder if there have been significant advances in its technology?:| Could this also be an option.
How about the government rounding up all the unemployed, and stick them on exercycles. These exercycles could have dynamos attached to some sort of Power box (I really don't know what word to use there). Meanwhile the country is getting some power, and the unemployed still get their benefit - but they have actually earned it, and could even get discount rates on power. What exactly are we paying so much for these days?:| Products which don't meet the requirements?:|
Please, we need someone who can allow for future growth to be running the place. We have evolved over a considerable time, yet occaisionally get stuck in "olden days".


Just something to think about.



Radz:p

raddersnz
08-05-2003, 03:33 AM
> why should some be charge more than others using the
> same amount of power?? heck it takes more resoirces
> pumpin tthe damn thing to N Island than jus to S
> Island.
Because we make all the power down here, we should get the best rates. We could just unplug the Strait Cable, and leave them Dorklanders in the dark - leave the lights out on that "penis in the sky".
With the bulk of the population living in the North, and the bulk of the energy being produced in the South, we surely hold the advantage.

> do we charge a customer more/less depending on
> location? like telephone.
Um, yes. They're called toll calls

> does any one object to that is its unfair specifying
> a reasonable amount of kW each household should use??
> i find it unfair each household need to reduce 10%
> if ya poor student flat or if u have 5 tv's,
> surrround sound and 5 PCs netowkred to play games.
> one can turn down a few PCs and others to forgo
> o shower?? is that it.

I hereby object. With 4 flatmates, it is hard to reduce the power used. Last month we managed to amass 594 Units of power used. 222 of them were MeridianPlus Night units. I don't think that is heavy useage - maybe someone dissagrees, but I don't give a rats ........

Boy, this has taken me a while to write.

E.ric
08-05-2003, 06:14 AM
I don't wish to pick on anyone, and not saying I am a peeping tom, I just notice it from the bus as it goes past.

But go past the blood center between Dilworth school & Market Road on the the Great south Road at 6pm.

The place is lit up inside like a christmas tree, and they have invisable workers busy as a bee working inside in there office. In fact I have never seen any visable person working inside at that time

And there are lots more examples around.

nomad
08-05-2003, 10:34 AM
toll rates yes i know. at least everyone is charged the same plan ... ie whether the call is local, within island or between island.

ie.. we don't see chc call welly different than welly call chc.

ok then we rely on govt data to make sure how many approx individuals (ie IRD, winz) and ages of the people in each house. and followin a formula that be be done. ie.. a house w. 5 pple can consume more power than one of 4. 5 adults can cconsume more than 2 adult/3 v young children. if that kW is over then bye bye..

nomad
08-05-2003, 10:40 AM
there goes nz's clean image :p

nomad
08-05-2003, 10:45 AM
i'm using a P200 win95! :D

nomad
08-05-2003, 10:56 AM
unemployed? i say put a cap on the dole say 8 weeks max per yr. nz is known to be the easiest goin govt i have heard. and its economy consequences. more pple working = the economy.

being a nzder i think its great aussie has said no to assit schemes for nzders. its about time some reality came out. i would change it a bit like after 5yrs u can get dole but its 8 wks max a yr. health and other assit is provided if u work and pay tax to AU. this is gettin off topic so i stop.

Clueless
08-05-2003, 11:12 AM
Sorry but the whole argument about differing power rates is flawed for many reasons.

1/ Its one big grid

2/ Sure, as a rule we "export" power from the mainland, but there are also times (such as last winters "O no the dams are too small" fiasco) when the cook strait cable feeds us.

3/ If we were to argue a "user pays" arguement that the North Island people should pay more than the Mainland because of the Cook Strait cable, we would have to also argue that towns such as CHCH should pay more because of the HUGE expences in getting power to such a trivial population base. Certainly Invercargil and the West Coast would become no electricity zones because of the cost/population factor.

Lets just sit by our home fires and remember the days when electricity was plentiful.

BTW cooking on gas is better and cheaper than elextricity, and seeing the cost of a good gas cooking is often less than the cost of the copper between switchboard and oven, i fail to understand why more people aren't doing that anyway.

When the power goes down, i'll be having a fry up on gas, by candle light, and i'll eat by the fire.

.Clueless

argus
08-05-2003, 11:15 AM
I save by attrition: don't replace lightbulbs as they blow :-)
(once I get down to two bulbs in the living room, I may have to)

Purely by accident, I bought two fittings for the halls (upstairs and down) which won't take more than 40-watt bulbs. It's surprisingly adequate.

As little heating as possible, no baths. And I still feel I'm not saving anything significant.

I've switched off all unnecessary peripherals on the home PC, but I don't switch off the machine itself; I know I should but Win XP (with all my start programs) is a pain to reboot.

And one computer company has a wunnerful idea; a ballpoint pen which glows blue at the tip - so I can write in the dark! (or I could until the ink dried up, as it does surprisingly quickly with these 'marketing' pens).

raddersnz
08-05-2003, 05:54 PM
> 2/ Sure, as a rule we "export" power from the mainland, but there are also
> times (such as last winters "O no the dams are too small" fiasco) when the
> cook strait cable feeds us.

But since the heavy useage of the cable is from the North, then they should have to pay for the upkeep. There is only the occaisional need for us to use the cable, and thats when they choose to drain the lakes - hope they don't try that again.
So since the cable is required for the transition of power to the North, the North should be responsible for the upkeep of it.

> HUGE expences in getting power to such a trivial population base

But in the scope of New Zealand, Christchurch does not have a trivial population. We are tripple the size of Dunedin, but Auckland can boast a 1/3 share in the population stats.
Christchurch is coming in second (http://www.stats.govt.nz/domino/external/pasfull/pasfull.nsf/e17092639373f80b4c2567ed0009410e/4c2567ef00247c6acc256c6f00041998?OpenDocument) (when you look at the first 2 placings you will see) in the population growth race.
And since the bulk of the power travels within a close proximity of the city, why can't we just tap the line.
With the Smelter down in Bluff, Invercargil will be guaranteed power, but only the scraps from Comalco.
And who cares about the coast. Leave them in the dark. ...bunch of yeasty country folk.:p

radz:p

agent
08-05-2003, 06:26 PM
Clueless: the gas is supposed to be gone in (can't remember which) either five years, or by 2005. That's the biggest turn-off, if you ask me.

And also, coming from someone who lives in Christchurch themselves (or used to), it's weird to me that you can call Christchurch's population "trivial".

But as for Christchurch having the second largest population... sorry, but I couldn't find that. What I could see, however, was that the North Island is home to 75.9% of people in New Zealand. And I think you'll find that, no, Christchurch does not have the second largest population for a town/city... following behind Auckland City, I believe is Manukau City. Then North Shore City. Then the westies out in the Waitaks.

Even if I'm wrong, you forgot to say whether you were mentioning Auckland City as the area governed by the Auckland City Council, or Greater Auckland, ie the area governed by the Auckland Regional Council (goes all the way up past Warkworth, that does).

agent
08-05-2003, 06:29 PM
Is it just me, or is this thread, that originally started out as good-willed, is now turning into an argument?

Clueless
08-05-2003, 06:36 PM
>And who cares about the coast. Leave them in the dark. ...bunch of yeasty country folk.

When i lived on the Wet Coast, i didn't need no elec-trickery like them wussy willed people there now!

-----still it was nice visiting those who did.

.Clueless

Greg S
08-05-2003, 07:24 PM
Good point Agent - I've become sick of the multitude OT opinions that degenerate into petty squabbles - I'm now making a habit of unchecking the Watch This Topic check-box whenever I post a reply.

raddersnz
08-05-2003, 09:35 PM
Agent, I never said the largest city. I did however say the 2nd largest population growth. The first 2 placings are actually taken by Auckland and Manukau, but can anyone tell the difference:p
Whoops, sorry but that was last years figures I was looking at.:|

Of the 74 territorial authorities, 43 (14 cities and 29 districts) were estimated to have experienced population growth in the year to 30 June 2002. Auckland City recorded the largest increase (12,700), followed by Manukau City (8,900), Christchurch City (4,900), North Shore City (4,700), Waitakere City (4,500), Wellington City (3,500) and Rodney ......

> Even if I'm wrong, you forgot to say whether you were mentioning Auckland
> City as the area governed by the Auckland City Council, or Greater Auckland,
> ie the area governed by the Auckland Regional Council (goes all the way up past Warkworth, that does).

Do I really give a damn, or is this an exercise in futility.

> habit of unchecking the Watch This Topic check-box whenever I post a reply.
Why reply?:| saves the need for unticking anything. ]:)

rugila
08-05-2003, 11:31 PM
This is an amazingly long thread.

A country run so that we have power shortages is a pretty poorly run country.

If that bothers you, just persuade your local MP to exhort parliament to ensure electricity is priced at the long run marginal cost of new generating capacity.

Additional capacity costs, and someone has to pay for it. Who else but the users?

Susan B
08-05-2003, 11:41 PM
> Is it just me, or is this thread, that originally started out as good-willed, is now turning into an argument?

It must be just you. I am thoroughly enjoying this thread, thanks mainly to you and radz -- haven't laughed so much since Timmy asked how to partition his hard drive. :D

Thanks guys, keep it up. :-)


Hey Greg, don't be so serious, mate. ;-)

raddersnz
09-05-2003, 12:03 AM
> > Is it just me, or is this thread, that originally
> started out as good-willed, is now turning into an
> argument?
>
> It must be just you. I am thoroughly enjoying this
> thread, thanks mainly to you and radz -- haven't
> laughed so much since Timmy asked how to partition
> his hard drive. :D
>
> Thanks guys, keep it up. :-)
>
>
> Hey Greg, don't be so serious, mate. ;-)

I'm gald my goal has been achieved. ]:)
Both of them infact. I'm sure some were attained which I had not planned for - but expected:p

E.ric
09-05-2003, 08:22 AM
OK it pays not too pick on anyone or you end up with red face.

I saw someone last night at that place (at 6pm) I said on another posting (above ?) , that's put a muzzled around my mouth for the pressF1 web site.

I better so to work before I get into trouble

Nomad1
09-05-2003, 03:31 PM
Hey Clueless - I'm alittle confused too - I always thought of the West coast as being the West Coast - yet as has been mentioned some of it isn't.
In Jan '02 I headed south for a week of 4 wheel driving on the West Coast - the "Base" was a motor camp in Westport (their address stated Westport, Buller) - something when sending a deposit to Seddonville (Buller).
Pardon me if I'm wrong - but my impression now is that everything north of the Buller river is considered Buller ?:|

Graham L
09-05-2003, 05:19 PM
Nope. Auckland.

Susan B
09-05-2003, 05:31 PM
LOL! Wash your mouth out, Graham! :D

raddersnz
09-05-2003, 08:50 PM
> If that bothers you, just persuade your local MP to
> exhort parliament to ensure electricity is priced at.....

But the Polutitions have nothing to do with our power. Ever since the private sector gained the power market, the end user has suffered.

Snaggle Puss
09-05-2003, 09:19 PM
Ever since the private sector gained the
> power market, the end user has suffered.

Novel Idea #334: Why don't you try suffering in silence?

bmason
09-05-2003, 09:48 PM
We're saving a little here by turing stuff off rather than using standby. And replacing bulbs with energy efficient ones as they blow.

But overall we're probably using more electricity because we haven't started using the fire (with wetback) yet, if there are powercuts I would rather have the extra wood then.

Greg S
09-05-2003, 11:33 PM
> Hey Greg, don't be so serious, mate. ;-)

Roger :)

raddersnz
10-05-2003, 02:20 AM
*radz curls up in the corner......
> "we don't needs them anyway....."

> > "he thinks we's on someones side.."

> "we's can cope by ourselves...."

> > "but you don't give a damn....."


> "oh my precious...."

raddersnz
10-05-2003, 02:23 AM
Dear Mr Puss

But if I didn't whine, what would be left for you to complain about............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................................................

E.ric
11-05-2003, 12:50 AM
I thought someone might like this to read.

Questions & answers on everyday scientific phenomena
from
http://www.newscientist.com/lastword/article.jsp?id=lw85


Down the tube

Question
As a child 30 years ago, I was told that it was good practice to leave fluorescent tubes switched on rather than using them intermittently over short periods. I thought that this was because each time they were switched on, their life was reduced. Was this ever true, and if so, does it apply to the newer generation of tubes and bulbs? Is there an optimum time below which the light should be left on?

H G Killa , London

Answer
The reduced life of fluorescent tubes caused by switching is a minor factor. Information provided by my local electricity supplier states that "About one hour of life is used at each switching. When equating the cost of lamp life lost against the running cost we get a break even time of about 10 minutes."

I think it is important to note that there is a general misunderstanding about this issue. Many people believe that fluorescent tubes consume much more energy at start up than during running and use this as an excuse to leave them on all the time. This fallacy has been promoted in "green" literature in which people are told that switching on consumes lots of energy and that running consumes very little. This is not true and I have conducted my own measurements. The rule is that if you will be out of the room for more than ten minutes, turn the lamp off.

Peter Seligman , Essendon Victoria Australia