PDA

View Full Version : advice RE: my new web page



robsonde
17-04-2003, 04:41 PM
I have started to look at learning html and makeing a web page for my self and my rantings.

the page is : http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~robsonde/



as you can see there are still broken links and such like but i would like feed back from all any any who look at it.

thanks

Graham L
17-04-2003, 04:55 PM
To many words in the heading. I can guess it's a home page. :D
Spelling: "opion". Uncertain tense: "This page is was". The "Under Construction" thing is probably not needed. ;-)

I'd suggest marking links to non-existent, or "Under Construction" so people don't link to them until they are ready. You probably want the links there for your testing, but you could have a temporary divider in your links frame separating "Released" and "Not Ready" pages. That way anyone who does get a 404 or empty page has noone to blame.:D

honeylaser
17-04-2003, 05:00 PM
"This page is was made as a place for me to have a rant about anything I have an opion about"

robsonde
17-04-2003, 05:36 PM
noted and fixed.

I will be uploading new version of the site through the weekend.

Oxie
17-04-2003, 05:39 PM
Derek,

You have started, and that is great. Now you know you can make a web page, and will have a new sense of achievement. We all have to start somewhere, and as you become more proficient your pages will improve. Keep experimenting. Rome was not built in a day.

Oxie

flyer590
17-04-2003, 06:01 PM
I started learning HTML a few months ago. It was frustrating at first, but the more I did it the more things made sense. Now I have this website (http://blundin.orcon.net.nz), made completely (well, almost completely) in notepad. The site actually has no purpose - it is only there for me to test out my HTML. ;-)

Murray P
17-04-2003, 06:20 PM
Well done. Was it hard, how long did it take? (about to try my hand at a web page myself).

When do we get to read the rants :)

Cheers

Murray P

Greg S
17-04-2003, 06:50 PM
I suggest... Ditch the frames, and remove the counter - they're both graphic examples of amateurism in site design. Frames also have the negative effect of decreasing your site's chances of being found by any search engine crawler.

Good luck with the development - it's a fantastic new media out there just waiting for you. I recall all the blood, sweat and tears I had when I first started out on homepage creation - man, it was so heady I'd be up at 4:30AM to try out something I knew could be done, but buggered if I could get it to work! lol

robsonde
17-04-2003, 06:58 PM
the page so far has only taken a few hours to make.

Ditch the frames?? how do i get a static section on the top and the left with out frames?

and the counter? I want a way to keep track of how many hits i get.

stu140103
17-04-2003, 07:48 PM
> Ditch the frames?? how do i get a static section on
> the top and the left with out frames?

Have a look here http://lvcac.orcon.net.nz/test/
You can download these files here http://lvcac.orcon.net.nz/test/test.zip

> and the counter? I want a way to keep track of how
> many hits i get.

Why donít you move it to the left hand side of the website not in the middle????

stu140103
17-04-2003, 07:54 PM
> > Ditch the frames?? how do i get a static section
> on
> > the top and the left with out frames?

You can use frames have a look at the above example
Or you can use tables????

robsonde
17-04-2003, 07:55 PM
is that not just frames with out the lines???


BTW I have thought about the counter.

if i set it to only be 1 pixel in size (web bug?) and it will still count up.
then if i view the page with a sepcial version of the code it will show me the counter and thus how many hits.

stu140103
17-04-2003, 07:56 PM
> > Ditch the frames?? how do i get a static section
> on
> > the top and the left with out frames?
>
> Have a look here http://lvcac.orcon.net.nz/test/
> You can download these files here
> http://lvcac.orcon.net.nz/test/test.zip
>
> > and the counter? I want a way to keep track of how
> > many hits i get.
>
> Why donít you move it to the left hand side of the
> website not in the middle????
>
> Edit: robsonde your are welcome to use those pages that I just quickly made :)

stu140103
17-04-2003, 07:57 PM
> is that not just frames with out the lines???

yep :)

robsonde
17-04-2003, 08:00 PM
it's fine with me just that greg_s said "Frames also have the negative effect of decreasing your site's chances of being found by any search engine crawler."

stu140103
17-04-2003, 08:01 PM
> BTW I have thought about the counter.
>
> if i set it to only be 1 pixel in size (web bug?) and
> it will still count up.
> then if i view the page with a sepcial version of the
> code it will show me the counter and thus how many
> hits.
have a look here http://www.sitemeter.com/ for a counter it is a bit better then the one you have :)

Greg S
18-04-2003, 01:54 AM
Yep Stu, but not quite eh. Tables are somewhat different.

Frames can be made without "lines", just as tables can too.

sc0ut
18-04-2003, 02:22 AM
>http://lvcac.orcon.net.nz/test/test.zip
on offence put i'm not going to bother to open a zip file to see HTML code

FRAMES X-(
makes it harder to select text
makes bookmarking difficult
makes scrolling a b**ch
makes printing dam anoying
makes old PC run slow
makes new window navigation anoying
makes Server Side Programming a nightmare

the sooner you get off frames the better

if you had of noticed only about 5% of major sites use frames (google is the only one i can think of now)

robsonde
18-04-2003, 03:09 PM
ok so i wnt to get rid of the frames, how??

I still want the layout to look the same-ish (dont need the borders)

how can i do this wiht out haveing the content of the left frame in every HTML page on the site (using lots of disk space) and makeing a change to the left frame a change to every html of the site??

stu140103
18-04-2003, 03:29 PM
Have you thought about using tables???

robsonde
18-04-2003, 03:33 PM
I dont know much about tables.....

I can see how the layout would be easy with tables but how can they solve my problem of content repeated on every html file??

do you have a demo??

stu140103
18-04-2003, 03:39 PM
> how can i do this wiht out haveing the content of the
> left frame in every HTML page on the site (using lots
> of disk space) and makeing a change to the left frame
> a change to every html of the site??

You can use a left frame (for easy of updating page) of the nav & just table for the right hand side stuff.

See this page: http://lvcac.orcon.net.nz/test/UntitledFrameset.htm

stu140103
18-04-2003, 03:42 PM
does that help??? :)

You can download that file here (http://lvcac.orcon.net.nz/test/demo.zip)

robsonde
18-04-2003, 03:46 PM
that would still be frames........

not what i want.

stu140103
18-04-2003, 03:55 PM
> that would still be frames........
>
> not what i want.

so you dont want any frames??? At all???

robsonde
18-04-2003, 03:58 PM
well after what scout says and what i have read i have decided that frames are not the best toy.

I dont mind changing the layout a bit but i do waht the nav section on the left and the main content on the right.

stu140103
18-04-2003, 04:01 PM
Is this more what you want:

http://lvcac.orcon.net.nz/test/demo/demo_02.htm

With no frames :)

Let me know if you want the code

Greg S
18-04-2003, 04:04 PM
Unless I've missed it from an earlier post, It would be great if we knew how you're authoring your pages - ie - are you coding by hand, using a wysiwyg editor etc - Frames normally aren't the default setting in the few wysiwyg's I've seen, so the fact that you ask how to get rid of them makes me ponder as to how you gottem in the 1st place.

robsonde
18-04-2003, 04:15 PM
hand coding with notepad is how i am working at the moment and how i would like to keep it.

stu140103
18-04-2003, 05:34 PM
robsonde : is my above post what you are sort of looking for??? :)

robsonde
18-04-2003, 05:42 PM
stu: yes that layout looks fine, will it still work like it is in a frame??

I started doing frames beacuse i dont want to have the html for the nav section in every page which is how your version would work. yes?

with frames i can have one html file for the nav and only have one place to update when i add a page.

E.ric
19-04-2003, 12:00 AM
> When do we get to read the rants :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Murray P

Yes that was what I was thinking, do you think PressF1 might like a "rant" page that get deleted every week? never to be seen again, I think we need more rants.

robsonde
19-04-2003, 12:06 AM
open ranting on a forum like this would often turn to flame wars......

I expect to be ranting about issues in the news, goverment , goverment departmnets i have delt with.

robsonde
19-04-2003, 12:07 AM
I expect to have many spelling mistakes on the site :-)

robsonde
19-04-2003, 12:08 AM
might even make a "have your own rant" section............

E.ric
19-04-2003, 12:18 AM
> I expect to have many spelling mistakes on the site
> :-)
>


You could call it "spell_your_way"
how are you storing the rants? with ASP, PHP, ?

robsonde
19-04-2003, 12:22 AM
asp ??? what is this php ??? what is that???

all of the site is just HTML done in note pad.

if you have a better way then please help me.

BTW is there anything wrong with just losts of html.

be back on to this tomorrow, off to bed now.

Lizzie.B
19-04-2003, 12:28 AM
One thing I would like to know is, when I clicked on the "contact me" I got the following message:

if you want to contact me then email me at robsonde at hotmail

Its the first site where there hasn't been the full emaoil addy (underlined) as a direct link. I think the way you have done it looks a bit silly

I am looking forward to the rants. I am thinking about starting up a site about Balclutha Rants. This place suks (Balclutha, not PressF1)

E.ric
19-04-2003, 12:43 AM
I have a page at the web site were a visitor can make comments for other visitors to see, I used PHP to save the comments and it writes the comments to a text file, I was going to use SQL to save the comments, but the web site page ended up been a flop with no interest, so I never got around to upgrading to SQL,

I think the only way to use HTML to save web site comments is to a "bulletin board" service.

As for what is PHP, popalong to http://www.php.net ASP, JSP does much the same thing.

E.ric
19-04-2003, 12:52 AM
My guess was, it might of been done that way to stop those Terry-bull spam robots getting hold of robsonde email address,

Spam mail has really screwed internet.

Lizzie.B
19-04-2003, 01:02 AM
couldn't they go:

robsnde@hotmail.com on a bit of paper then fill it in electronically?

stu140103
19-04-2003, 01:23 PM
They use Bot's to collect e-mail address

That is why when I post my e-mail address on this forum I use * those instead of . & @

stu140103
19-04-2003, 01:32 PM
> asp ???

Active Server pages (it is a scripting language that runs on windows IIS servers)

>php ???

This is what they say on the php.net site on what PHP is:

PHP is a widely-used general-purpose scripting language that is especially suited for Web development and can be embedded into HTML.

Hope this helps.

Dylan
19-04-2003, 01:38 PM
advice?

get rid of frame borders, use noresize or resize=0.

Use gifs/jpegs for titles. The GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) will do the job and its free :D

Your getting there mate, just keep hacking at it. I started HTML when i was 12 (im 15) and i've made serveral sites for clans and businesses (www.houselifting.co.nz - my latest). You'll get better over time.

stu140103
19-04-2003, 02:42 PM
> Your getting there mate, just keep hacking at it. I
> started HTML when i was 12 (im 15) and i've made
> serveral sites for clans and businesses
> (www.houselifting.co.nz - my latest). You'll get
> better over time.

Dylan is right, it does get easy when writing html.

I also build website as well :) http://stuartw.orcon.net.nz

Not bad site Dylan :)

Also if you still do this one you have flinched school (as a careered)(like I have, you will be ably to make a lot of money.) or even now if you find your own work or work with a website design /deployment company you could make a few $$$.

robsonde
19-04-2003, 03:31 PM
I have decided to make a form for comments and posting your own rant.

having an open posting system will make for some problems of flaming and offencive posting.

as for frames?? I have decided to stick with frames for now but remove the borders.

Greg S
19-04-2003, 03:57 PM
Remember - if your site is only a half dozen pages or so, and you're hand-coding, then any chunk of code, eg the table that has your menus in it, can simply be copied and pasted to each page when you need to update it. But generally your menu links in the table won't be changing all that much, so there's little disadvantage in using a table instead of the frame.

On this (http://www.kiwiflorists.co.nz) site I've put my page links on the top, within a table, and If later I need to add a new page to the site, then I do it just once, and copy and paste the table into each other page.

Having said that, I also use Dreamweaver, and it makes changing things like a menu bar in a whole site a doddle; although I'd only really use that function if I had a site with upwards of 20 pages.

robsonde
19-04-2003, 04:08 PM
I can see how that would be good for only a few pages with only a few changes but i hope to be changing the nav section of the site almost every day as i add new content. the site will become lots of pages and it would be very hard to update all of them by hand. the other donw side to having the nav on each page is that it will use lots more disk space.

Greg S
19-04-2003, 04:14 PM
Agree that it will become a bit more tedious the more pages you have, specially if you change the nav section frequently. But... from a design perspective, wouldn't a bit of consistency in the nav be better? Also, that's where high end editors come into their own, as they take the slog out of it for you.

Re using much more disc space, I have to disagree on that one - the tiny bit of html links on each page should be negligable, unless you use roll-over images. Also, the advantage in terms of site size, is that each frame is an entire page on it's own, which I should imagine will take more time to load and use more space, than a repeated table on each page.

Greg S
19-04-2003, 04:18 PM
Just checked - on the site url I gave earlier - the maximum file size of any page there is only 4 - 7KB, excluding the images. Not enough to make a dent into any server's disc space allocation, free or otherwise.

Greg S
19-04-2003, 04:19 PM
You could always subscribe to a free third-party forum, which you can manage yourself, so as to block or delete any unsavoury postings.

robsonde
19-04-2003, 05:16 PM
I have just uploaded a newer version of the page with one rant, a mail to form, no borders on the frames and a few new mistakes for you all to find :-)

sal
19-04-2003, 07:58 PM
wow, a load of replies, might as well add mine two cents,

about the site, it looks really simple and newbie-ish, not a nice site to look at ...
*watchs robsonde counter with 'but its content that matters' *
but its all good, i bet youve put a lot of time and work into this, so its all 'base work'.
you guys have already talked about whether or not to use frames, framesets are the 'usual' for people learning html (well, imo), and i think a 'better' alternative design wise could be an iframe, technically still a frame, but its inline, supported just as well as frame-sets are across the broswer range, and can look pretty cool (still wont impress the frame-haters though :_|), heres a small code sample to get an idea of how it would for your site,


<table width="760">
<tr>
<td colspan="2">title goes here</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="30%">list links here</td>
<td>
<iframe id="main" width="100%" height="100%" src="home.htm"></iframe>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

thats just a basic code structure, so not to hand it to you on a plate, but ill explain a little about the iframe layout above.
first off, its all laid out in a table, row 1 has one column, row 2 has two columns.


+-------------------------------------------+
| BANNER | < row 1
+-----------+-------------------------------+
| NAV | IFRAME |
| | |
| | |
| | | < row 2
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
+-----------+-------------------------------+

i dont want to get into how a table is structured with html, etc, sorry, but it would get too indepth, but anyways, how this iframe system would work goes like this.
each link in the NAV would have a target attribute, much like the way a frameset works, and you would target the iframe.


20-04-2003 (20042003.htm)

21-04-2003 (21042003.htm)
...

each time you wanted to make a new 'entry', you would make a new file (say '22042003.htm'), and add the link to the index.htm file (the one with the iframe on it),


22-04-2003 (22042003.htm)


with this method, your only working with one primary file, making new 'entry' files, and adding a new link to the index page along the way,

after all this, it kinda makes you appreciate what goes on behind the scenes of things like this, are you familiar with blogging? theres a few, which ill say advanced, systems which fully automate all of this for you, i wouldnt expect you to understand whats ACTUALLY happening behind the scenes, but heres a few links that might be worth a look, concerning the purpose of your site

http://movabletype.com/ - cgi based journalling system, really popular, one of the best.
http://somery.danwa.net - a php based blogging system (was just off the top of my head, cant say how good it is).

this is probably just a passing interest for you, but i got really interested in it early last year, and im fully addicted, personally i found it easier to learn via a good, solid web design/programming community and its forum, they were real helpful, if i could force some ideas (ideals?) on you, they would be

- code to xhtml standards (http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/default.asp) (at least transitional)
- learn about css (http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp)
- NEVER use a font tag *shudder*

grtz sal.
tga

robsonde
19-04-2003, 10:04 PM
iframe looks good......

what is the advantage of iframe over the frames system i am using now??

and yes i know the site is not much to look at yet but it will come togeather over time, i hope :-)