View Full Version : Open Discussion (No flames) - Why do you use your OS?

23-03-2003, 02:27 PM
After reading through that thread on the Linux Problem, I decided to start this thread:

Why do you use your OS?

Why would you wanna use Linux?

Why would you not want to use it?

Which version of Windows do you use, and for what reason? (PC specs cant handle any newer version... Dont like Version X)

This is an open-for-debate topic, but not a flame session or a 'come to the light side of the world of OS's' topic, Im just curious!

This is for everybody too- not just the PF1 regular posters :-)

So who wants to start?



23-03-2003, 02:29 PM
What do you do if you dual boot? or have more than one PC that you use? ?:|

23-03-2003, 02:37 PM
LOL - Okay, I'll start:

I use Windows 2K, XP, and RedHat 8.0 on my PC (tell just themain PC you use, or all your home PC's, i dont mind..)

I used Win2K for a while, but when I was given XP, found that the DX9and XP gave better gaming results.

Ive recently moved to using RedHat 8 a lot, just coz its something different, and something fun to learn.

Everything that I do in doze, I can do in RedHat, except use my el cheapo webcam, and my Wireless LAN.

I dont use ME, as I found it too crash prone, so never looked into it.
95 is just too old for use now, and 98 is getting that way, and although its good for slower PC's, I dont really use it personally :-)

Ive begun to use Linux coz its something new, and free, so why not?

Anybody else?

23-03-2003, 03:23 PM
I have/use win98 simply cause I like it, & it does all I want it to do. very stable, user friendly.Apart from that it is the only one I've got.

23-03-2003, 03:37 PM
I run windows XP because it runs well on my system and is better than 98.

I have tryed to run linux but i cant get my onboard sound to work right.

for any linux foke who can help i have a CD of mandrake 8.3 and a soltek sl-75drv5 system board.

23-03-2003, 03:48 PM
Err... Try opening an XTerm window, type:
su -
enter your root password
Try specifying a different driver for it to use, as I found that about 10 different drivers worked with my Laptops Crystal Audio System which didnt have native drivers :-)

23-03-2003, 03:52 PM
worth a try......

I dont have linux installed at the moment but i will try it soon...

23-03-2003, 04:05 PM
I've got Win XP on my main pc, which I quite like now that I'm used to it. I've got 98se dual booting on my main pc cos some of my software won't run on XP. I've got 98se running my "rest of the family's" pc, cos that came with it and it works well. I haven't tried Linux for no other reason than that I have had no reason to. Windows does all I want and is compatable with work stuff.

23-03-2003, 04:07 PM
2 machines..

'98 on Vanessa... because it always has been since Vanessa was first born.. sorry made.

SuSE on Sam because i very much wanted to try Linux, and a friend came over with the SuSE box set and said copy these disks, so i did, and we set Sam up that night.


Jen C
23-03-2003, 04:12 PM
On my main (new) PC I run XP Home with NTFS as I like the pretty toolbars and start menu :p ; and it is supposedly more stable.

On the second PC I run Windows ME and Linux Lycoris. Windows ME is a nice OS but struggled a bit for me with certain combination of programs and goes through blue patches, hence the choice of XP in the new machine. Lycoris was added (although I did have SuSE 8 at one stage) as a challenge for me to learn a non-windows OS. Lycoris is aimed at the home-user market and has GUI features similar to XP, which makes it a good starter linux OS (lessens the freak-out value;\ ). I am currently considering kicking off ME and going solo with Lycoris on that machine as a way of enforced learning.

As I only have the one monitor/keyboard/mouse at present to share between two PC's, ME/Lycoris does not currently get much attention from me.

23-03-2003, 04:24 PM
One point worth remembering. There are two main groups of people who use computers. 1. Those who want to do work or play games etc.,but have no real interest in comps. as such. 2. Genuine hobbyists,geeks, computer nuts, call them what you will.
Those in group 1 will want an operating system that works, does what they want to do. In other words thy use Windows.
Those in group 2. will use Linux and probably several other operating systems all together. They use Linux because it is different,it makes them feel more clever than other people. It's probably not working properly, thats why they have other os's.
If you want a reliable computer that runs properly then there is realy no choice.
If I could install Linux smoothly and it would pick up all peripheral drivers and then no more crashes than windows I would use it, because of my hatred of Microsoft and all it stands for.
But it doesn't, It doesn't even come close.
Enough said,

23-03-2003, 04:40 PM
Are you just stirring or what?

>They use Linux because it is different,it makes them feel more clever than other people. It's probably not working properly, thats why they have other os's.

Well i use Sam (SuSE) as my gateway seeing there is no way i want a gateway that crashes every other day like vanessa does if ('98) run 24/7 does.

You are kind of right.. i use Linux as a learning tool, but i don't feel "clever" for using it.. indeed as i get behind the scenes i feel "Clueless" (hence the original reason for choosing the name). Clueless, but learning.

BTW, theres a few people who like Linux because generally it's uptime is decided by how long you can keep the computer powered up. My experiance has shown me why the servers that run the WWW are mainly Linux


The Student
23-03-2003, 04:53 PM
My reasons are pretty most the same as Chilling_Silence and a bit from everybody else....

I do have 5 different Operating Systems to choose from: XP Pro, 2000, 95, 9SE, 2kServer, Linix Man 8.0 but only have XP Pro and Win2k as my operating systems installed.

My reasons were because of 'mainstream' in that I tend to follow business side of things. In such instances, Linux does appear every now and then (for skill requirement) to work with, but most users from organisations are either just have migrated to Win2k or using that as their primary OS.

Meanwhile, although I'm pretty influent with Windows 2000 more than other O.S, I found using Linux quite 'hair raising' stuff. Although, the majority of users I have known, state that it is easier to use than Windows, yet I'm still struggling to try and install the O.S. again, just for the hell of it........

I wouldn't mind knowing more about linux. I have in the past have installed it, but found my reasons were not fufiled yet to comply with all my needs.

23-03-2003, 04:57 PM
Hi Folks
I was running W2K and found it very stable and compatible with most of my work stuff.I upgraded to XP Pro because I won it so what the hell,
I have found it more stable and more compatible so I have stuck with it.And a noted by an earlier post it is nicer to look at.
My daughters PC is running Win98 se and I have had no complaints from her she mostly on MSN and hotmail and burns a few Cd's. Only thing is it has to be rebooted at least every couple of days. Unlike XP which has been up for 38 days. Lastly I run W2K on my laptop which is totally dedicated to work, I connect to work over a VPN and this can be a little flaky at times wether that is the OS or something else I'm not sure. I like W2k,s ability to use LPR for printing this is important to me as I connect to a lot of different printers in my work day and win XX does not support LPR natively

Billy T
23-03-2003, 05:39 PM
1) Win98 on Old Faithful because it is 100% reliable and does everything I want.

2) W2K on two other boxes and my new (2nd hand) Toshiba portege because I'm not a Luddite and it works well for those boxes.

3) W95 on my old Toshiba Libretto because it came with that OS and why would I change it?

4) DOS 6.22/WFWG 3.11 on an old Compaq notebook to maintain access to older DOS based instrument software that doesn't like anything more recent and I can't be bothered wasting time trying to make it work.

5) Linux? Probably a fine OS and very interesting to play with, but I can't see any reason to embark upon a learning curve that I don't need when all my existing equipment and current needs are well met by items 1-4.


Billy 8-{)

23-03-2003, 06:33 PM
The OS's I have running are.....

Win98 so I can still use my scanner which caused lock-ups on ME and 2K even with new drivers installed.
WinME which is on two machines one of which is the music/gaming beast LOL and runs the printer.
Win2K which currently has all my back-up files.
Mandrake 9.0 which is the main PC that I use to access the web.
SuSE 8.0 which is what I use to monitor the network as it has some great tools.
SuSE 6.4 for the http server.
Then there is seven PC's with Mandrake Clic as I wanted to play with the setting up of a cluster.

Apart from the cluster (seperate KVM block) and one ME PC all the other PC's are hooked up to KVM switches so that I can quite often be flicking between PC's and OS's when online.

Also I have all PC's running 24/7 and don't suffer BSOF or any of those problems. The Win PC's are never up long before a reboot though due to the patches ;) There are probably just as many patches for linux, but you don't need to reboot after them :)

23-03-2003, 06:43 PM
I have two operating systems on my computer:

- Windows XP Home
- LindowsOS 3.1

Soon Yoper 1.0 pack will be there as well. I use LindowsOS most of the time just because a lot of the software is better (such as the GIMP), but have Windows XP there just in case I muck things up a bit (which happens far too often ;-)).

23-03-2003, 06:50 PM
I use Redhat 7.3 only since it is free!!! , very stable and does everything that I want. I have a digital camera, zip drive, CDRW, Epson C61 printer and 32Mbyte USB pen drive all working very well. OpenOffice is my main application but there are heaps of other good apps supplied with the distribtion. THis PC also acts as an internet gateway for two other PCs running Win98.

Eventually (in time) all PCs at home will be Linux - I am not buying anymore MS OSs.

23-03-2003, 07:49 PM
Well I've got three computers at home.

My family's computer (mainly stepfather and little sister) is running Windows 98SE as it is a nice stable OS and the computer only has 120MB of RAM for it to use. It's also because he only has experience with the 9x based OSs. I would probably put XP onto it so that I can give them limited accounts if I ever get around to grabbing some more RAM for it.

My main computer is running Windows XP Pro because it does the job for me and has lots of nice we features that 9x doesn't have. If I screw things up big time I'm seriously considering putting Windows 2000 Pro on because I know of quite quite a few people that find it heaps better than XP and I'd like to have a valid opinion in why I like XP so much more. I also like the ability to be able to skin the OS though it doesn't help make it do things better, it's just something nice to play with.

My other computer is currently running Slackware 8.1 though before that it was running Longhorn and before that it was running 2000 Pro. Thats all in a matter of days. This computer is KVMed with my main computer with the main computer running IIS to give it access to the interweb. I have this computer so that I can screw around with things all I like and still have a computer that *hopefully* will still work.

23-03-2003, 07:51 PM
>Why do you use your OS?
Because I have to maintain compatability with all of the clients, who all use MS Office based programs.

>Why would you wanna use Linux?
I am proficient (or I was) in command line interface systems, including Unix and if I had the time to devote to re-learning I certainly would. If 100% compatability with my clients interface could be achieved, then I would have done it ages ago.

>Why would you not want to use it?
Lack of compatability is the only reason. I probably will have a linux box here one day, for renewing experience with*nix systems. And because of the geek background.

>Which version of Windows do you use, and for what reason? (PC specs cant handle any newer version... Dont like Version X)

Use Windows XP. 4 Machines, 3 of which were upgraded from 98SE or ME. Why? I am one of those "early adopters" by nature and technical engineering is my background. The Win ME platform certainly worked well for me, better and stabler that 98.
I cannot really justify the transition from ME to XP, as the only gain in stability is that the OS does not need rebooting when an application dies. In ME I simply rebooted whenever I was taking a break and that solved any resource issues.

I have to also thing of my partner, she was trained in windows based products and is not a geekess, therefore a switch to Linux would be a bit too much. Open Office type apps are not compatable enough unfortunately, her work involves e-mailing fully formatted documents for clients to review and print. The clients all run MS office, so absolute 100% compatability is required.

23-03-2003, 08:25 PM
> My other computer is currently running Slackware 8.1
> though before that it was running Longhorn and before
> that it was running 2000 Pro.

Where did you get Longhorn from?

23-03-2003, 08:33 PM
I have Windows XP home edition and SuSe 8.0 I believe. I don't really remember because it's been a while since I used Suse because on a regular basis programs just seemed to crash, has anyone else experienced similar problems?

For those of you familiar with SuSe, I quite regularly used Kspread. When I for instance used a function like cut/paste within the Kspread app, it just crashed, losing everything I had just done.
Can something be done about this?

23-03-2003, 08:55 PM
> > My other computer is currently running Slackware
> 8.1
> > though before that it was running Longhorn and
> before
> > that it was running 2000 Pro.
> Where did you get Longhorn from?

must just be me and my wishful thinking. It was Windows Server 2003 RC2 that I was using.

MS haven't let out Longhorn for us regular folks yet ;)

23-03-2003, 09:00 PM
> >Why do you use your OS?
> Because I have to maintain compatability with all of
> the clients, who all use MS Office based programs.

Crossover Office is there for those who use Office 97/2K. Im hoping to look into it soon :-)

Longhorn can be downloaded off the web.. somewhat illegally i guess.. but just use a P2P proggy...

BTW - how much did Lindows cost?

23-03-2003, 09:00 PM
I'm running 98se & Mandrake 9. Windows is still default, but only because it gets rebooted more.

Win98 came with the computer, it runs the older games I play, and win2k/xp is frigging expensive.

I started using linux because it was something new to play with. Also I use it at university so its convienient & I didn't have to buy any windows development software which is also frigging expensive.

I'm still using Mandrake because thats what I started and it hasn't annoyed me enough to get around to installing debian yet.

My biggest problem with linux is installing 3rd party software. The mix of all the failed dependencies and badly packaged software is a pain in the ass. Linux apps can be easy to install, unfortunatly the only real examples I've seen were commercial.

23-03-2003, 09:17 PM
Lindows cost me US $99 which at the moment is probably around NZ $175. I think it was well worth the cost, although Lindows isn't for everyone. For example, if you already use Linux and are happy with it then you probably will not like Lindows.

23-03-2003, 09:24 PM
XP for me. I upgraded from 98 and am very happy with XP. I can't change things too much or Mrs Wotz gets upset.

23-03-2003, 09:33 PM
i've gone from windows 3.1 through to win XP pro ( which I use now )

I'm somewhere in the between in terms of abilitys and game player

I like xp ( as being a early adopter - I had the XP Pro Beta ) and went from ME to XP Pro because I like the fact its still ( relatively ) new and its interesting to see what doesn't and does work with it ( drivers/games/apps etc )

And I love the Knoppix CD! I'm worse than Clueless ( no offense ) in terms of *nix based OS! lol

I can use the GUI ( kde ) command line = lost ( but I can type!! ) and I still don't know what half the progs/apps do! :D


23-03-2003, 11:14 PM
i'v used Windows 3.1 ;-) ,95,98,98se,2000,2000pro,XPhome,XPpro,NT,NT server,Dot NET Server (my boss got it about 6 weeks ago) ;-) & Redhat 7&8
and they all have there advantages
currently i use at home 2000Pro
i had XP but it was all frills
i would like a real gamers OS 2000 is ok but it has its flaws for games
i think for all internet server jobs Linux is the way (but dot NET is craping in)

23-03-2003, 11:18 PM
>(but dot NET is craping in)
sorry i ment CREAPING not crapping

23-03-2003, 11:28 PM
1.Why do you use your OS?

Without it I'd find that I couldn't do much on a computer. The OS has made it much similar than what it use to be in that Primitive age of Computing.

2.Why would you wanna use Linux?

Linux has boosted my games overall performance (fps, texture, etc), Also opensource has helped my programming by giving me ideas. Linux was basically a new thing to try out at the time and it was worth the new experience.

3.Why would you not want to use it?

Because I would have created my own OS by then and Linux and Windows will be brought down due to my OS popularity (dreaming!). I couldn't think of a reason why not to use it. Possibly because I know MS won't let me live if I'm hiding weapons of mass destruction?

4.Which version of Windows do you use...

Win2k SP2 and XP Pro SP1 only because I prefer them over the prior versions and more hardware support.

Curiosity killed the Chilling_Silence.

Murray P
23-03-2003, 11:29 PM
Win2k pro on a box recently put together for (new) business purposes. Still running 98 as comfort blanket on this box but have hardly looked at it since w2k was installed. Will let go shortly.

Win98 on the old box which is now the family comp which is networked and sharing net with the 2k box.

Win95 on the older box sitting on the floor with the lid off and looking very sad. I've been thinking of giving Linux a crack on this one (P133, 6.4GB) mainly out of curiosity but am finding it hard to find time at the mo.

One old, old Digital box with DOS 6.something which I never really came to terms with before getting the 95 machine. Still boots up ok if I want to go there, which I don't.


Murray P

24-03-2003, 12:25 AM
Oh well here goes..

I use Windows XP Pro SP1 and Mandrake 8. Mostly I use the XP because it only crashes once every 2 days on average and because it has the games, office, internet, and I know my way around with it.

Mandrake on the other hand I use for backing up my important files from XP. Like it was very useful when somehow the windows partition filled itself completely, using all the hard drive space...then it wouldn't boot and was impossible to fix! Linux did its job by mounting the xp and then I could delete some stuff to make it go again.

I haven't tried getting games to go in linux...anybody know how?? I don't think I'll use linux fully as an operating system unless it can run anything and everything...eg all the windows stuff as well as linux.

Dolby Digital
24-03-2003, 09:50 AM
>>it makes them feel more clever than other people
Sorry, I may well be smarter than other people :D, but I don't run Linux for that reason. Do people buy Mac's because they have more money that other people?

Dolby Digital
24-03-2003, 09:54 AM
>>I don't think I'll use linux fully as an operating system unless it can run anything and everything
It never will. Too much trouble.

Linux comes with quite a few games as standard.

24-03-2003, 10:08 AM
We use WinME on both of the computers at home, one is for work and the other is just a muck about. We find WinME generally very stable. On the laptop it is win95 as that is what was on it when I laid my hands on it, at work the laptops are a mix of win95 and win98 and the office pc's are win98, some are networked and some are not.

24-03-2003, 08:29 PM
3 x Win98se; from a P120 to AMD XP2000+

Stable, huge compatibility with programs/drivers/other users, real DOS - so why pay to upgrade.

Have thought about Linux, but it would be purely a hobby-type machine; and I don't have the time or energy to spend in learning a complete new OS that will invariably require command-line tweaking with less overall compatibility.

Terry Porritt
24-03-2003, 09:13 PM
May as well add my 2d worth ( that's 2 pennyworth for the younger ones :) )

Got 3 networked computers 2xWin98SE, 1xWin95B. Also another 3 hard drives in caddies that can be booted by plugging in, with Mandrake 9, DOS6.22+ Windows for Work Groups, DOS 3+Windows 1 :D

WFWG goes blindingly fast with an Athlon 1.33GHz !

I still use several DOS programs from time to time,including various utilities and electronic circuit simulation/test, and printed circuit board layout and drawing using an HP plotter to draw direct onto pcb for one off etching.

I played with Mandrake just for the experience, but I have too many peripherals like scanner, video camera and things and too many apps that wouldnt work with Linux, so thats why I will stick with Win98 and DOS for as long as is practicable. Win98 does all I want.

24-03-2003, 09:27 PM
>>Sorry, I may well be smarter than other people , but I don't run Linux for that reason. Do people buy Mac's because they have more money that other people?
Thank you for the light touch,I love these good posts,but like a humorous touch,much appreciated.
Not seen anything to convince me to try linux,best left to those who live in that world.
With regard to Mac,not seen one person mention having one on here,are they ashamed or what;)

24-03-2003, 09:45 PM
> I haven't tried getting games to go in
> linux...anybody know how?? I don't think I'll use
> linux fully as an operating system unless it can run
> anything and everything...eg all the windows stuff as
> well as linux.

Man - NOBODY must have read my review on Wine-X

Have a look through the PF1 archives coz that'll let you do a lot of gaming. It comes with lots of games too, as previously mentioned :-)

24-03-2003, 09:48 PM
> >>Sorry, I may well be smarter than other people ,
> but I don't run Linux for that reason. Do people buy
> Mac's because they have more money that other
> people?

Apparently MAC users are smarter than most PC users with 75% more being online!

24-03-2003, 09:58 PM
Two boxes - both Win98 SE.
Both are really stable and a pleasure to use with old and not so old programs. The old box still has the original 5.25" flpoppy, upgraded over the years to also have 3.5", CD-R and had a CD-RW until I shifted that to the newer box.
The newer, a gift from a son, has two CPU's but as the Win98 uses only one, I feel that I should move it up to XP to see what, if any, benefits there are.
Also, and probably more important, I enjoy helping out as a tutor at SeniorNet and many of the old dears (of both sexes) are fronting up for tuition having recently purchased boxes with, of course, XP and all the trimmings. (It can be a bit frustrating using Pub 98 and Word97 at home but having to teach the upgrades at the club.) Our club has 2 of the 5 systems on XP now and will upgrade the others soon. They have also just installed a new VNC system which will allow tutors to show what they are demonstrating on all the machines very easily. Interesting - but I haven't made the leap tp XP just yet.

24-03-2003, 10:35 PM
> >(but dot NET is craping in)
> sorry i ment CREAPING not crapping

...so you type it again :P

can i ask, for all you folks running multiple versions of windows, are they all LEGAL? hehehe....

25-03-2003, 02:33 AM
On my main pc i run xp pro & 2000 pro
On my second one i run 2000 server & 98se
On mac i run 9.1 & 10.2

25-03-2003, 10:58 AM
i use winxp coz thats what i got with my computer :D thats my answer lol...i dont actually care what os i use..or what computer i use...as long i can use to do a assignment..or talk 2 some ppl online..and at a good reasonable spped...also, able to play games on it :D

25-03-2003, 11:20 AM
On my 47 computers I have one of each:D

25-03-2003, 11:28 AM
are u saying tehres 47 OS around? what are they then?....

25-03-2003, 11:29 AM
so ur saying theres 47 OS around..if yes..what are they

25-03-2003, 11:38 AM
>>>so ur saying theres 47 OS around..if yes..what are they
I could tell you,but would have to kill you;)

mark c
25-03-2003, 11:57 AM
Win 98 se because that't what the shop recommended in 2001 when we bought them.

"Why not something later?" asked I.

"Because it's tried and proven. Anything later you'll be dealing with patches and fixits and other problems you won't want to know about."

Fair do's, been humming along a couple of years now.

Cheers mc :D

25-03-2003, 12:50 PM
> can i ask, for all you folks running multiple
> versions of windows, are they all LEGAL?
> hehehe....

Depends which PC you look at... ;-)

Oh the joys of RedHat and having its boot loader first :p

25-03-2003, 12:52 PM
> >>>so ur saying theres 47 OS around..if yes..what are
> they
> I could tell you,but would have to kill you;)

Does that include all the different MS-DOS versions?

I might be able to make it close...

*Starts counting*



John H
25-03-2003, 01:48 PM
I used to use MacOS - from 1986 to about 1999. Unfortunately, client demand meant that I had to shift over to Windows, buy a PC box, and re-learn. Many clients could not handle attachments that were emailed from a Mac, even if the attachment was a Windows doc created within Virtual PC (which works very well by the way).

Office for the Mac platform when I gave up on the Mac was (IMHO) better on the Mac than on the PC at that stage (Office 97). Microsoft's dreadful Word 6.0 for the Mac was universally reviled and they lost customers. They then came out with a much improved Office 98, that some PC gurus considered much better than Office 97 for Windows.

However, whilst a Windows box could read an Office file created on a Mac (and vice versa) enough things were subtly different (eg font sizes) to cause real difficulty - page layouts etc.

So the Mac had to go. Sob.

Since then I have used Win 95, Win 98SE, and now XP Pro. Each one has been an improvement on the previous version in terms of stability, and the search for a stable platform is the reason why I have upgraded. XP Pro is now almost as stable as MacOS 8 or 9, whichever was the last MacOS version I used (Alzheimer's Rules, um, what?).

I have not tried Linux because of the same incompatibility issues, and because I am too busy to spend the time on setting up and learning another OS that may or may not meet my needs.

When I retire, my computer usage will presumably be internet and other recreational activities. That being the case, I would like to flick Windows and go to the current incarnation of MacOS. I have only had a brief introduction to it, but it is pretty awesome.

There now, that wasn't a Mac-Windows flame, was it?


25-03-2003, 06:08 PM
I use Win98Se.
I would use Linux but I like to be able to run games with a minimum of hassle.
98 runs fine, haven't had a problem in 2 years so why change it until I have to?

25-03-2003, 08:04 PM
I originally ran winME on this machine. Because I was having endless trouble with it, I was about to install a pirated Chinese version of win2K. I am just glad I got given a copy of XPPro. It is easy to install - so easy, I had it on the same drive 3 times. YES 3 times at once. So I wiped it and put it on just once more - alone on its own partition.
I have a data partition - NTFS 5.0
And on the last 3GB I have RH7.2
I have to use a floppy to boot to RH, and don't have a modem for it.
Hence I prefer to stay with windows and tweak XP so that it will run how I want it to. I have only had small (tiny)(minimal) problems with XP, and it does seem to be secure. I would prefer to play with linux more, but do not have the capability to at the moment. With HP training up Linux users, I think there will be a shift in the market very soon.
My attempt at installing linux was seamless, and only went on the once. However I had a practice run at my course - where I got it from.
I look forward to the opportunity to fully experiment with linux, and have some fun playing around with it.


25-03-2003, 08:53 PM
cos i have to. i have exp only with windows.
i have been trained from day one on MS products.
now onto win2k as being more stable. XP looks too fairy tale.