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brig
17-03-2003, 03:36 PM
Has anyone with a World-Net Starter account, or any other Jetstream account, been having connection problems over the past two weeks or so, and particularly this Friday and Saturday?

I've been having little success setting up a new jetstream connection (first time) on my

Windows XP Home Edition
Intel Pentium-4 2.0 GHz
ASUS P4B533 mboard
512 MB RAM

...........through a D-Link DSL 504 ADSL Router, sometimes with a second PC (Win 98SE) also plugged in and sometimes not, using straight through cables.

Setting up the Router should have been no more of a hassle than entering my internet ID and password, with all other settings at their default. Then hitting OK and agreeing to the "Reboot Router" request.

I was at the same time involved in helping my wife's employer install his new jetstream starter with xtra...(Win ME on an older PCDirect
resuscitated job- same router brand and model as mine), and once I discovered what the "AUTH.FAIL” message in his router configuration page meant, and rang Xtra to find they had punched in the wrong password at their end of things, the whole thing leapt into life and hasn't missed a beat since.

In the meantime I am going crazy blindly following all suggestions I don't really understand gleaned from all possible sources, trying to get a stable connection. Sometimes I could complete the configuration and get Jetstream up and running (great eh!), but only for a few hours, then alas, no connection. At the times that I could actually access the Router login page, I would get a - "Physical Line Error" message but could do nothing to correct that.

In the past 14 days I have been on a roller-coaster ride with 2/3rds downtime and the rest searching the web for answers to what might be going on, and how to get a stable connection.... would have asked you guys/girls for help but didn't know enough then how to put the problem to you.

Some of the highlights of my tribulations have been:

Returned the first Router to the supplier on the advice of D-link Support, who said it must be dead...on the grounds that the ADSL LINK light was not lit and all other connections being verified by the existing ICS, File and Printer sharing setup.

Replacement Router behaved just the same as the first.

Rang Telecom Jetstream - spoke to a very nice man who said the only thing he could discuss with me was my login ID and password – “Thank you very much, but I already know them”.

Did a firmware upgrade (whatever the heck that is!!!) on the Router, (on the advice of D-Link's Neil in OZ), to an older version, and it did improve things... I could now log in to the Router Configuration page easily. Got half a day’s jetstreaming before it went down again.

Rang and emailed World-Net who said they only gave support for their own routers/modems, but nevertheless did listen to my woes. I had no success in getting them to confirm or deny categorically whether they could be having problems at their end.

My Router reseller/technical advisor/friend said he can give me no more help as I now know more than he does!

The Router supplier won’t talk to me … “sorry,no retail sales”.

My buddy Neil at D-Link Support was decidedly cool the last time I rang him.

The bright part of this story is that I went to bed on Saturday night with the Router powered on but the Link light gone off and no jetstream…..got up early Sunday to commit suicide, and what do you know? ……the Link light had come on sometime during the night with no human assistance, and hasn’t gone off since. That’s at least 34 hours unbroken connection to the adsl network.:)

The trouble is that I have no idea why I now have a good, apparently stable connection, whether it will stay this way, and what to do if it goes again. ?:l

Does anyone have any suggestions?

CYaBro
17-03-2003, 03:42 PM
When you replaced the router did you replace all the telephone cable as well? Could be a faulty cable?
How is the router connected to the line? Do you use filters or have you got a Jetstream only wall socket?

godfather
17-03-2003, 03:49 PM
Are you at the fringe in terms of distance from the exchange? Perhaps it "touch and go" (or stop) in terms of signal availability.

brig
17-03-2003, 04:26 PM
CYaBro
godfather

Thanks for your interest...any and all comments are welcomed, no matter how basic.

I am 200 meters from the local exchange. Telecom installers' line check was excellent.

I have a Telecom installed splitter.

3 different new straight through Ethernet cables have been tried along the way.

CYaBro, you might be on to something. The last change I made prior to the start of the present 'stable' state of my connectivity, was to try a third ADSL (phone) cable....the first two being the ones supplied with the two Routers.

I'll keep your suggestion in mind.

Anyone else care to make a comment or share a similar experience?

godfather
17-03-2003, 04:36 PM
At 200 metres it will not be a lack of signal!

I have has ADSL a while now, and apart from Telecom outages its been fine. I use an Alcatel Speedtouch Pro Router and all PCs connect via the ethernet hub.

I did wonder about how you allocate your own Network IP addresses, but that would not explain the ADSL light being out. It could otherwise explain suddenly losing connectivity though.

I use the ADSL Router to assign the IP addresses, and it works like a dream.

Clueless
17-03-2003, 04:37 PM
I tend to agree with godfathers thoughts on the matter. If you are not close to the exchange, you could be effected by anything from damp underground cables to rotton crimp joins on your line.

I would be tempted to bleat like a banshee at telecom if the service doesn't get more consistant. Often a line that is fine for speech is not fine for DSL. Make sure you are paying that maintanance part of your phone bill, then telecom will be ablidged to not only connect your house to a better copper pair, but rewire your house if need be. (I got some VERY dodgy and complex wiring that i had done myself with scrap replaced that way once)
It seems you have illiminated everything else!

From my experiances with having had multiple telecom phone lines here at home at one time, i know that some lines are definatly better than others, even in the same street. Conditions that might make a dial-up connection slower may kill DSL alltogether

:D

.Clueless

Clueless
17-03-2003, 04:42 PM
Mental note:
......must see if original post has been added to before posting my 2 cents worth! :p

.Clueless

CYaBro
17-03-2003, 04:45 PM
Just for your interest we use a D-Link DSL-500 router here at work and had lots of problems with disconnections etc. It would happen randomly so it was a real pain to trouble-shoot. Sometimes connection would work for 2 weeks or more before it would die. All I had to do was turn router off and on and it would work again.
When it did happen the ADSL connection light would still be on but you couldn't get to the routers web configuration or ping it so it was like the ethernet port on the router was faulty but the rest was fine. After a few tests and cable changes I updated the firmware and have had no problems since then. (About 6 months now)

Billy T
17-03-2003, 04:47 PM
That's quite a saga Brig

I can't be much help infortunately, but through my experiences with a 3Com modem that behaved similarly, if the link light went out it was likely to be a telecom line fault. I dumped it in the end and bought a router.

Now I have a Nokia Ni500 and the only way to get the link light to go out is to disconnect the Telecom line. I am therefore wondering whether your leads/house wiring/telecom connection at the exchange are intermittent.

One point though, is your phone system 2 wire or three wire? Telecom only warrants their ADSL service on two line systems.

If you don't know which you have, look at the wall outlet and if it doen't have a 2 on it, that is a clue, but not necessarily definitive. If your phone system wiring is not more than 2-3 years old it should be two wire, but you can always look at the back of the socket and see how many wires are connected, and whether they are a pair. i.e they should be base colour & base colour + white stripe.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Kame
17-03-2003, 07:01 PM
I wonder if anyone has come across External Routers overheating?

You can expect random problems if this is the case. I've not opened my one to see how the CPU is cooled but I've placed an external fan on the unit and problems I had before are not heat related anymore.

brig
17-03-2003, 08:25 PM
Thanks for all the thoughtful comments.

Been at it since before 4am and getting tired now.....will reply more fully tomorrow.

Before going, the latest episode:

checked the temperature of the Router by lifting it very gently to feel underneath...(kames' suggestion) - it was warm, well over 40C but has been since I got it. Power pack is too hot for my liking, over 50C I'd guess.

As I held the Router in my hands the Link LED went off and that was the end of my jetstream connection.

28 minutes later it came back to life, and I'll tell you tomorrow what I did during the downtime

g'nite all

brig
18-03-2003, 07:13 AM
Good morning to all

Last nights' brief outage of my adsl connection seems to have been triggered by my physically disturbing the quite hot Router to feel it's temperature, after reading Kame's post about CPU overheating. Highly suspicious........I wonder, do these complex electronic gizmos have a heat overload cut-out built into the circuitry? Could my touching it have set it off if it was at the very brink of it's temperature limit?

Lifted the still powered on Router off the desk onto wooden blocks and directed a strong blast of cool air from a domestic fan onto both the Router and it's very hot power adapter. Both soon cooled dramatically, but after 20 minutes the Router Link light was still off, and configuration page still reporting the usual "physical line error".

I should have gone to bed then, but being an impatient character and without nearly enough time left in this world to scientifically test all potential variables, I tried one more suggestion that I found somewhere on the web.......I unplugged the Router power adapter from the spike protected power box and plugged into its own mains wall outlet.

Powered up the Router and in less than 5 mins it had automatically connected.

Switched off the Router and went to bed....got up early,switched on, and within a few minutes the automatic connection was made.


Maybe someone will make sense of this sorry tale , I'd sure like to hear from them.

Until I can establish with some certainty what the problem is I wont dismiss any suggestions made, and will post anything useful to others here .

godfather......IP addresses are assigned automatically as per instructions

clueless......I have a 19 year old house with several additions to the original telephone setup. Might be something to look at, but the Telecom technician installed a splitter before the line reaches the other possible junk. I would have thought that would avoid any kind of interference from any problems after the splitter?

Billy T.....my phone master wall outlet has two red, one white and one blue wire attached to the female plug bit and other coloured wires of unknown origin lurking in the background.

Kame....you may have resolved the problem for me by raising the temperature issue....after D-Link (obviously), Telecom, and World-Net, this one will head my list of suspicions to be watched in the coming days.

Clueless
18-03-2003, 07:33 AM
brig,

While the "other junk" in your wiring can always be a factor, it sound like you have narrowed down the problem to something completely different. Seems a little rediculus that your router will require an exteranal fan. It also seems a little on the not too safe side of things, if regular overheating is indeed the problem.

.Clueless

Billy T
18-03-2003, 09:36 AM
Brig

I really don't think router temperature is your problem, and neither is the plug pack. Plug packs can get very hot, but as a general rule it doesn't affect their performance.

Fans are an interesting diversion but not particularly helpful. If you want to keep the temperature down a bit, you can temporarily improve heat dissipation simply by standing the router on one end to allow both top and bottom to radiate freely.

Subjective assessment of temperature is not always very accurate, so if it is a real concern to you, it is better to get one of those cheap indoor/outdoor electronic thermometers and tape the outdoor sensor to the case. I did this when I read that my first Nokia Ni500 was prone to overheating, but although the case felt hot, it never exceeded 35 degrees. The "runs cooler"replacement sits at around 25-27 degrees, depending on ambient temperatures. Internal temperature will stabilise after about an hour of operation and after that, short term thermal effects are unlikely.

The real answer lies in the performance when cold. If it doesn't work then, it is unlikely to be temperature related. Also, you mentioned that it came on after a long period and stayed up for 34+ hours. The reverse would be more likely if temperature was the cause.

Finally, your router and plug pack are not unique, therefore other users should see the same temperatures, allowing that there is nothing unusual about your operating environment, i.e. you are not working in an abnormally heated area. That makes temperture even less likely to be the cause. In the absence of a specific component failure, if one unit overheats, all will overheat.

It might be a silly question, but are you using the correct plugpack? I have so many leads lying around that one day I accidentally plugged the wrong one into a new device and it was only the fact that the voltage was too low rather than too high that saved me!

Finally, can your router be interrogated via a serial port/telnet connection? The Nokia can, and the diagnostics will record why the connection is down. If there is no serial port, is there any diagnostic software provided?

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Billy T
18-03-2003, 09:58 AM
Brig

I forgot to ask, are your VPI and VCI settings correct. For Telecom they should be 0 & 100 respectively.

I still think your problem is wiring related and it sounds like your cabling is three wire. You could try disconnecting/unplugging every other device from your phone line and see if that helps. I also wonder if your filter and wiring to the router are correctly installed. From memory it is a straight through connection to your ADSL outlet and a low pass filter to the rest of your phones.

If Telecom installed a filter at the point of entry, you should now have a dedicated cable pair from that point to a dedicated adsl outlet. Logically that should be a new outlet installed at the time that the filter was fitted. All other phone services run off the other two wires out of the filter.

I don't actually know how Telecom handles this aspect of the installation because I had prewired everything and all they had to do was install the filter.

A description of your actually connection from the router to the filter is the one thing missing from this saga, and if it isn't a dedicated line with nothing else attached then that could be your problem.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Billy T
18-03-2003, 10:04 AM
Brig (& other thread watchers)

This Thread (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=28043&message=108220&q=adsl+filter#108220) gives more info on adsl filters and phone wiring. It will help you check your system if that proves necessary.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :)

Jim B
18-03-2003, 10:12 AM
If it is working OK with the the spike protected power box bypassed isn't this indicating a problem with this unit.

Billy T
18-03-2003, 11:38 AM
The presence or absence of a spike protected power box (or phone outlet) for that matter would have no effect whatsoever on the adsl reliability. Spke protectors are level dependent and do nothing until a major input overload appears.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

drcspy
18-03-2003, 12:07 PM
well having eliminated the spike protector and after taht the system works.......its obvious to me that the spike protector is the problem.......test this easy by plugging it in again.....

if it continues to appear that the spike protector is the problem ......take it to someone who has a voltmeter and check the output from the wall socket then check it from the spike protector AFTER it's plugged into the same socket.........possible that somehow it's just not putting out enuf voltage.......

brig
18-03-2003, 12:49 PM
Hmmmmm..............I have some serious rethinking to do!

I'll get back to you all later.

In the meantime we are still jetstreaming away merrily here, and I'm hooked. Can't imagine life without it now :D

Jim B
18-03-2003, 12:59 PM
Theory is fine as far as it goes but what you actually observe has to be believed.

godfather
18-03-2003, 02:23 PM
A surge protector is essentially a level limiter AND can be a "fast transient wave" blocker (i.e. a low pass filter)

Some telephone line surge suppressors CAN distort/attenuate the ADSL signal.

Your mileage may vary

Billy T
18-03-2003, 03:27 PM
Too true God, but from Brig's description, this was a power spike protector, not a phone line unit. He clearly stated that he plugged the power pack into it.

If his phone lines are compromised (unbalanced), just moving things around will alter the signal balance on the input to the router, and that could already be very marginal if he doesn't have the correct wiring from the splitter onwards.

IMHO the spike protector aspect is a red herring hiding behind a coincidence, however his mileage is definitely varying at present so something has changed.

Time will tell.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

godfather
18-03-2003, 04:50 PM
Ahh... Perhaps I should have read the post!

Power spike protectors will NOT affect the operation as you say.

Cannot help but wonder why the unit is ever turned off? I leave mine on 24x7

As there is a shortage of IP addresses, I have a greater chance of always having one by never diconnecting. That would not cause the link indicator to not work though .... or would it?

BTW the Alcatel router barely gets warm.

brig
18-03-2003, 05:07 PM
I have to say that I'm very grateful to you all for your continuing interest.

Having jumped into this project and found that the water was way deeper than I anticipated, you are like a lifeline, and it's making me feel a whole lot better.

Billy T.......my power adapter has a 12v DC 1.0A output, and is definitely the one that came with the Router.

Yes, there is a serial port connection, but I have no idea what to do with it, nor would I understand any data gathered via it....perhaps later on up the learning curve!

I do have a Line Condition facility in the Router configuration web page. Below is the current data showing and it seems to be updating every 10 secs. Most of this data is gobbledygook, but looks impressive. ;\

VPI and VCI settings are as you say

I will crawl under the house and check that the wiring is as you say it should be...it's what I understood I was paying for- a splitter with a dedicated line to the adsl wall plug.


Something has definitely changed since this time last week. Apart from a short outage yesterday that I described above, everything has run sweetly for 60 hours now and so it's not a good time for any experimentation as to whether any of the changes I reported actually have contributed to the present stability.
I relocated the Router and power adapter so that they are receiving better air circulation than before, so I no longer have the fan on them.


Read out from the Router display:

Line Condition

Protocol
Operation Mode T1.413
ADSL State Showtime

Rate
Downstream 7616 kbps
Upstream 832 kbps

SNR
SNR 14 dB

ATEN
ATEN Downstream 9 dB
ATEN Upstream 7 dB

Loop Distance
Loop Distance 2 K ft.

Near end
FEC 6
CRC 0
HEC 0

Far end
FEC 297
CRC 0
HEC 0

Packet Counter
Transmit Packets 61987
Receive Packets 73306

Cheers

brig
22-04-2003, 09:49 AM
This is a follow up to the awful problems I was having getting my new Jetstream connection up and running.

The disconnection problems worsened until I had a complete break for 2 days about 10 days ago, after which I some serious telephoning.

The upshot was that "there is a known problem with the D-Link DSL 500 series Routers and Telecom's gear". The technicalities of the problem are beyond me, but for anyone interested the following thread is revealing!

http://unixathome.org/adsl/archives/2003_04/0049.html

After I reinstalled the original firmware and making the "itex command" changes suggested, my jetstream connection was established within minutes and hasn't missed a beat for a week now.

I am starting a new thread for anyone who may be having connection problems with their D-Link Router and might need further information.

In the meantime, thanks to everyone who took the trouble to make the many helpful suggestions

brig