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View Full Version : OT: Phone Line connection fees



csinclair83
13-11-2002, 09:25 AM
has anyone requested a telecom connection quote since they put the prices up for "rural areas"
I totally forgot about that they did that, as yesterday i asked for a quote for me getting my own line so i dont have to worry about mum going mad at me for "taking up the line"
And got a reply this morning....before i tell u the cost, I live in Feilding, a sorta ruralish town, 15 mins drive from Palmy...

the cost is....$300 :o not including a installers visit, which will bump me up a extra $50

My friend lives further away, like 30 mins drive out into the country, he got a line installed for $100, INCLUDING installers fee?
whats going on around here?

sam m
13-11-2002, 09:29 AM
it's called "user pays"
blame society

Craig Bellhouse
13-11-2002, 09:38 AM
No, its called Telecom is "to f-ing greedy", Blame them...

still, i suppose that doesn't help you with getting a new line set up...

csinclair83
13-11-2002, 09:41 AM
yeah very greedy especally with their latest annoucement of a profit but it was down 3.3% (i wonder why)..but i could say if the prices are staying around what they quoted me..it wont be newhere near a profit next time.


http://onebusiness.nzoom.com/onebusiness_detail/0,1245,146902-3-166,00.html <<<news on the profit by telecom...greedy buggers

and what ya mean by users pay?

godfather
13-11-2002, 09:46 AM
Before you rush into it, just make sure they are actually going to give you a "real" second line and not use a "digital splitter", or in their terms a "0+2" system.

That will give you about 28kB connect speed maximum from either line.

Are you in the jetstream area? Thats only about $5 per month dearer than a second line.

sam m
13-11-2002, 09:57 AM
or... you could instal it yourself.
Get the trench dug, buy the wire, buy the jackpoint, spend a few hours installing then order Telecom to connect to the network.
That would work out cheaper, right?

as per godfather said, jetstream would only be a few bucks more.... I was going to get 2nd line installed for the same reason (partner nag was too much to bear) as you until I did the math and even though I am paying more, the benefits of the high speed is heaven.

sam m

godfather
13-11-2002, 10:17 AM
Re self installation, be advised that the cost has little if anything to do with physical installation in this case.

There will most likely already be two circuits into the house now.

Its to do with recovering the investment already made in the network infrastructure. Existing cables, exchange etc.

The theory is that the more rural, the higher the cost as there are less people paying for the extra costs.

godfather
13-11-2002, 10:25 AM
>and what ya mean by users pay?

By "user pays" it means that up until very recently, if you needed a line put into your house in the city right beside the exchange, it cost about $100. If you wanted it put into a second cottage on a remote farm, it cost about $100.

But the average costs of providing the service (including the cost of all existing cables, exchange, buildings, etc) to the city house could be shared with another 20,000 people. In the country the costs could be shared with only 100 people. So the cost per line is very high in the rural area, but has been subsidised by the city folk in the past.

User pays is where you pay the real cost, not the averaged cost.

I am not saying its right or wrong.

Terry Porritt
13-11-2002, 10:34 AM
You're too young to know about the days before "user pays" :)

Back in those golden days, there was such a concept as "Social Responsibility", whereby instead of everyone for themselves we had much more mutual support.

One thing this meant was that most rural places where you lived you had Post Offices, banks, schools, shops, etc, and the costs for utilities were the same as you paid in towns and cities. The costs were spread evenly over everyone. Of course there were some who would take advantage of society for their own ends by sponging, but the New Right thought it would be a good idea to make everyone pay individually the full costs + profit for the services they received.

The same thing was happening in England 10 years before NZ, so it was no surprise when it happened here.

I lived out in the country in UK, and it was District Council policy to levy a uniform main drainage charge on every one, including those who were not on main drainage. We paid 50 pence nominal fee a truckload to have cesspits emptied, but there was no charge if main drainage was extended to a new area, connection was free.
As user pay started to come in, some people protested they shouldnt have to pay for main drainage if they had cesspits. As a councillor, I told them to shut up, as they didnt know when they were onto a good thing. No, the case went to the House of Lords, and they didnt have to pay if they were not on drainage.

Guess what, the cost then to have the cesspits emptied went up to 5 pound per load. Thats what user pays does for you out in the country.

And to think once I was a true blue Tory :)

Clueless
13-11-2002, 12:03 PM
>or... you could instal it yourself.
>Get the trench dug, buy the wire, buy the jackpoint, spend a few hours >installing then order Telecom to connect to the network.
>That would work out cheaper, right?

I did that in seddinville some 10 plus years ago at the house where my son resides. The only fee that was charged by telecon was the standard connection fee

I dug the trench by hand, lay the cable in garden hose and scraps of alcathene pipe, and then rolled up the scrap garden hose clad cable at the nearest pole that had telecon main wiring on it, tying it too the pole as high as the ladder would reach with nylon string.
This connection is still there, and funtional to this day. Maybe the rules have changed, but perhaps it can still be done... Its not that hard, just a couple of days work.

.Clueless

csinclair83
13-11-2002, 01:48 PM
I mite go jetstreaming now..
it was only for a line that has a splitter, not the WHOLE new line..so i'd be looking at more $$ if it was a whole new line..
And...as if mum would let me do any DIY installing...
Unless she knows DIY rescue is on its way hehe...


BUT...
Is there anything i need to know about..
With Jetstream, Like, what plans, and download data caps..
and will i need to install anything like...i dunno because theres 2 installation fees, one is $249, and the other is $99..Also, do they approve of things like kazaa, and having a server etc? As I sorta have one but its not located here...my friend has server, and i use it for my file storage if i need to have files available if i am at home or at college...etc..

Also, what is the recommended Plan/ISP that i should go with?

And also again, what ADSL modem is the best value for price?

jetstream is definately available on the line..have checked that out :-)

Chris

Clueless
13-11-2002, 02:12 PM
paradise jetstart is the way to go!
10gig/month 128kb/sec

local data counts at 1/10th the rate (ie 100gig/month if it was all local, this is infact impossible to move at 128Kb/sec)

other plans involve lower caps and hefty charges if you go over.

.Clueless

csinclair83
13-11-2002, 02:14 PM
pretty alright
i'd check out the paradise website..
will i have to pay ne fees to telecom as well as ISP fees?

crozier
13-11-2002, 02:20 PM
Hi Chris,

I just got Jetstream last week, makes a huge difference. Jetstream Starter costs 29.95 per month. I got Xtra too which brings it to about $65 / month. This gives me a speed of 128mbit, which downloads at about 15kb /second. (tripple my previous download rate)

Installation was $99 but free untill 16 December. I also had to buy a filter ($21 each) for each phone socket. The $249 fee means that you don't need filters, but I don't think you will be able to relocate the PC easily.

I have 3 networked PCs running on this and I've played with Kazaa (but, of course, I only download demos ;) )

I got an external ADSL modem / router connected to my network so each PC can connect independantly of the others. And of course we can use the phone at the same time!

See http://www.telecom.co.nz/content/0,3900,200345-201307,00.html

Clueless
13-11-2002, 02:22 PM
i think the billing is split between telecon and "the ISP"

I don't know because i am on cable so i simply pay telstra with a combined bill for 2 speech phone lines and cable internet of just over $100/month.
Basicly, to the best of my knowledge, the data cap, speed etc is the same be it DSL or cable, except i think paradises servers count as local traffic with DSL, but free traffic with cable. Not that that makes alot of difference.

Anyway, you'll find the info on the www.paradise.net.nz website, best of luck to you

.Clueless

-=JM=-
13-11-2002, 03:45 PM
I personally don't like the whole "user pays" thing. I'd much rather just have it so that I pay that little bit more so that others can pay a bit less.

Out the Sounds we set our own power up. It was going to cost an absolute fortune for all the houses to get their own connections. So instead we set up like a farm does. Quite handy when you know someone that is a lines man :D

There is one power bill and then we end up sorting it all out once every 6 months or something from everyones meters on their houses.

This works fine............ untill you have a falling out with the neighbours. :( It's also not good when something happens to the powerlines between the houses, we have to maintain that ourselves.

nz_liam
13-11-2002, 04:03 PM
> Hi Chris,
>
> I just got Jetstream last week, makes a huge
> difference. Jetstream Starter costs 29.95 per month.
> I got Xtra too which brings it to about $65 / month.
> This gives me a speed of 128mbit, which downloads at
> about 15kb /second. (tripple my previous download
> rate)
>
> Installation was $99 but free untill 16 December. I
> also had to buy a filter ($21 each) for each phone
> socket. The $249 fee means that you don't need
> filters, but I don't think you will be able to
> relocate the PC easily.
>
> I have 3 networked PCs running on this and I've
> played with Kazaa (but, of course, I only download
> demos ;) )
>
> I got an external ADSL modem / router connected to my
> network so each PC can connect independantly of the
> others. And of course we can use the phone at the
> same time!
>
> See
> http://www.telecom.co.nz/content/0,3900,200345-201307,
> 0.html

That would be 128 Kbps not 128mbit :D. (The max speed possible on a ADSL modem is 8mbps)


Cheers

Liam

crozier
13-11-2002, 04:12 PM
>That would be 128 Kbps not 128mbit . (The max speed possible on a >ADSL modem is 8mbps)

Well at least someone is paying attention! ?:|

Graham L
13-11-2002, 04:13 PM
In the days when NZ had a Public Service, and a health sytem and ... it was officially a Good Thing for people to live in remote areas. It was encouraged. If it was possible to get power to a remote settlement, it was done. No charge. If it was possible to get a telephone line to a remote place it was done. No charge. Sometimes a radio link was put in for telephones, even if power couldn't be got there. No charge.

The Post Office installed a phone line in a town for no charge. The idea was that some cost more to install than others, and once a line was installed, the rental charges woulc cover the cost. Most places had a line installed once, and whoever liverd there would use the line. A friend was living in a very old place and got the phone installed. The lines gang arrived and started. They found that the walls were 2 feet thick stone. They went away and came back the next day with the gear they need ed to make holes for the wires. No problem. No charge.

The "user pays" theory is fraudulent theft. Worse is coming. This Public Private Partnership criminal theft system which is coming will be even worse.

godfather
13-11-2002, 07:06 PM
Telecom Jetstream Starter is $29.95 per month.
Xtra ISP flat rate on Jetstream 5000 is $34.95 per month

Thats a total of $64.90.

A second line is $29.95 at the "special" rate.
Normal dial-up access is $27.95 (value pak)
Thats a total of $57.90

So for $7 more you can get about 4 times the speed of dial-up.

Other considerations:
You can have another ISP instead of Xtra, so the $27.95 may be less.
You don't need to pay the cost of installing a second line.
You do need to pay the cost of filters (or fit one per phone at about $20 each, DIY) and the install, which is free until Xmas ($99)
You do need to buy an ADSL modem. ($200-$400) If you can afford it please consider a Router with NAT addressing, it acts as a firewall.

All up the installed cost will be similar to the second line, but it works SO MUCH BETTER

csinclair83
13-11-2002, 07:20 PM
Is filter installing easy?

$7 more for 4-5x faster internet...mmmm nice

Thanks for giving such a detailed explaintion on what i could get for more/less $$

But yeah the ADSL modem...my only mmmm money reason lol..
I might have to stick with paying $99 for the adsl installing fee..sinc eit probably gonna be January before i could get nefing..

*prays that the prices dont rise anymore*

csinclair83
13-11-2002, 07:28 PM
If i asked u to recommend a ADSL modem for me from computer city..
www.computercity.co.nz for a reasonable price..what would u recomend?

godfather
13-11-2002, 07:32 PM
Of course you need to check that ADSL is available to you, it isn't everywhere yet.

Go to this link (http://www.telecom.co.nz/content/0,3900,202045-200554,00.html) to find out if its available at all.

Installing filters is as simple as plugging in a phone. They are a small in-line filter that plugs into the wall socket, and the phone cable plugs into the filter instead of the wall socket.

If you have a lot of phones, you could get a master filter installed, and a separate socket installed for the modem. It may be cheaper than the separate filters.

Download speeds are pretty constant at 16 kB/s.
I get through about 1 GB per month, of which only about 300 Mb is international. You pay extra if you go over 5,000 Mb (5 GB) of international.
I dont download music etc, but I could increase my traffic by 16 times before I would reach the cap.

nz_liam
13-11-2002, 07:35 PM
He he he. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2104676a2580,00.html)

csinclair83
13-11-2002, 07:37 PM
i checked it earlier this afternoon and yeah its available here

we only have 3 sockets in the house, one is for fax, one for phone, and one for the internet connection..

Clueless
13-11-2002, 07:43 PM
i tend to use 8 gig /month, i download music and music video......

.Clueless

csinclair83
13-11-2002, 07:45 PM
I've had 56k connection with a ISp for 3 months now..and have downloaded 2 gig of stuff...
but considering thats 56k...
but of course i'd go double or even triple on a adsl..
someone mentioned 10gig cap on paradise...is that a good deal?
I am deaf so music and music videos are worthless 2 me..only download if a friend wants some...which is once every now and then

Susan B
13-11-2002, 07:57 PM
Chris...... I thought you were moving to Rotorua next year??

csinclair83
13-11-2002, 08:00 PM
u must have a good memory hehe
Nah didnt get accepted in the course up there..which was a bugger

but surprisely got accepted in the same course here in Palmerston North, so just a 10-20 min bus trip every day there and back..and a education...

Thanks for remembering thou hehe :P

Susan B
13-11-2002, 08:56 PM
I remember all the important things Chris. ;-)

Glad to hear that you got into the course closer to home, saves you a lot of hassle. :-)