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View Full Version : A Solution to SPAM - all of it...



Erin Salmon
05-11-2002, 05:28 PM
Hi all,

My first visit to the forum in months is due to a rather brilliant idea I recently heard.

It could be arranged so that whenever a computer sends an email, it is required to perform a basic mathematic calculation. Something that would take a reasonable computer something like a quarter of a second. This would not be a noticable hindrance to an ordinary email user, but imagine what the effect of this would be on a spammer, if they were only able to send 4 emails per second...

:D

The tricky part is making it foolproof, ie the calculation cannot be avioded. What piece of software/hardware makes it obligatory to complete the calculation? This is the catch to the plan, but it should be fairly easy to come up with something... Any ideas?

Erin

roofus
05-11-2002, 05:56 PM
I have heard this too, wasn't it in PC World, or was it on NZoom, i can't remember.

I question, why would a spammer want to use this software that involves them having to perform a calculation for each email. They will just develop software that sidesteps this.

Why doesn't everyone just use digital certificates?
Hence eliminating spammers

gibler
05-11-2002, 07:03 PM
It would also be helpful if ISPs simply tagged spam when it arrives at the mail servers for autoremoval or filtering by the customer. It would save them some disk space.

Alas there are some major spammers out there who would get their hands on certificates through foul means. You'd have to keep some sort of blacklist I'd imagine still.

The offenders simply need to be billed for their activity (at high prices) :-)

TiMİ:*)
05-11-2002, 07:08 PM
.........i dont get u guys........the only get spam mail every 2a month and it doesnt even bother me. its only one email that i just delete?

what r u guys definition of spammers?
am i one?

crozier
05-11-2002, 08:10 PM
> the only get spam mail every 2a month and it doesnt even bother me. its only one email that i just delete?

Then you're very fortunate. I have several amail addresses, onr of them for years, and I was getting up to 50 emails a day.

> what r u guys definition of spammers?
am i one?

Do you send unsolicited emails? Of so then you're a spammer. Otherwise, no.

Erin Salmon
05-11-2002, 09:16 PM
Agreed - the trouble is ensuring spammer perform the calculation... How?

If you get that few spam mails, you should possibly try applying to the guiness book of records...

I've had a hotmail address for about 5 years, and it gets about 75 messages a day... I have the most comprehensive filtering system imaginable, with over 600 blocked senders :)

However, imagine what would come in if I had no filters. ALL off it goes to the trash, and I only keep the account to trap spam - ie, I give that address online etc, then give people my real one from there.

My paradise.net account gets a few every day, enough to piss me off, but not enough to warrant ditching the address.

Erin

Baldy
05-11-2002, 09:43 PM
> Agreed - the trouble is ensuring spammer perform the
> calculation... How?
>
> If you get that few spam mails, you should possibly
> try applying to the guiness book of records...
>
> I've had a hotmail address for about 5 years, and it
> gets about 75 messages a day... I have the most
> comprehensive filtering system imaginable, with over
> 600 blocked senders :)
>

> I've had a hotmail address for about 5 years, and it
> gets about 75 messages a day... I have the most
> comprehensive filtering system imaginable, with over
> 600 blocked senders :)

75 a day, and you have "the most comprehensive filtering system imaginable" I WOULD GET A BETTER ONE....... I have Hotmail / Netscape / Yahoomail accounts and would be lucky to get 5 spam emails per week. Total over the whole shebang.

I am convinced that if you are getting that many, its your own fault Erin. Are you clicking everything in sight?

BALDY:-)

crozier
05-11-2002, 10:00 PM
> I have Hotmail / Netscape / Yahoomail accounts and would be lucky to get 5 spam emails per week.

OK Baldy, you've got to share the secret of your success not :)

Clueless
05-11-2002, 10:06 PM
The now dead pugwash@ihug.co.nz email account died mainly because it was a spam trap, which of course was my own fault as i kept putting the pugwash@ihug.co.nz address into websites and forums such as this.

Spam bots would see pugwash@ihug.co.nz harvest them, and now have yet another dead address in there databases it would get up to 10 spams a day, and it hasn't been round the block near as much as some of the others i have had, including pugwash@clear.net.nz (also dead) and some others i am about to make as spam traps just to waiste the resourses of spammers by putting addresses out there that will be dead in a week.

SPAM WILL ONLY DIE WHEN PEOPLE STOP BUYING STUFF THEY HEAR ABOUT THROUGH SPAM, AND SPAM GOES IN THE "TOO HARD" BASKET

.Clueless

-=JM=-
05-11-2002, 10:19 PM
Why have a calculation, you just make it so that servers don't forward the email on so fast ;)

Or just filter the spam.

csinclair83
05-11-2002, 10:34 PM
yahoomail is spamproof..as signed up yahoo and hotmail same time 3-4 years ago, and i beleive i've not received one spam in yahoo..compared to hotmail lol
i've got a hotmail addy, and yeah for msn, and usually get 200-300 spams a week...
and ever since i now use my isp email addy for MSN, instead of hotmail..all of a suddeen i only get 2-3 spams a day..what is that meant to be?

i just dont use them nemore, just my isp addy, and all is well

Clueless
05-11-2002, 10:36 PM
theres only one trouble with the filtering, how can you illiminate spam from new addresses without also blocking mail from unknown contacts witlegit reasons for contact, such as responding to something posted publicly on a website.

Also there was the time i was blocking 10 new spammers addresses i recieved one morning, and accidentally included my pressF1 notifications in the list of those i blocked... It took a few hours to realise why i was being snubbed by the forums server.

Having send that, blocking senders knocked out ½ the spam. Loosing pugwash@ihug.co.nz killed it all

robsonde
06-11-2002, 12:18 AM
the system I came up with is that the mail server at your ISP get a bit of mail for you and automatical checks to see if the mail server it came from is "open". if it is then the mail is returned to sender asking them to secure their mail server and try again.

this is NOT checking by using a black hole list of any kind.
this is real time checking of every mail server as needed.
this could be setup be any ISP for very little cost.

the only spam that would still come in would be from mail servers that are not open and are used by spamers with the consent of the server owner. servers such as this could be put on a black list.

other spam might come from "free web mail" systems.
this could be limited by setting a limit of how many messages that can be sent per day to 25 or some such munber.

the only other way I can think of is if spam is made illigal in every country and then to take action to make the spamers pay.

please excuse the spelling, it's late and I dont care......

Erin Salmon
06-11-2002, 03:42 PM
Hi,

Yeah, naturally all 75 go into the trash, so they don't really plague me that much, otherwise I would've switched to a new account earlier.

I think that someone may have had the name before me, and I'm getting a bit of their old stuff too. Anyway, I've had it for 5 years or so, and anything I ever needed an email address for was given that one. Now it seems to have been sold to a few other spammers... It mostly collects porn and miracle cures kind of stuff, plus the famous diplomas.

If you were to make mail servers shove mail through more slowly, that would effect everyone, not just spammers.

I think it would have to be buried in the fundamental protocol of SMTP to work.

Erin

Graham L
06-11-2002, 03:54 PM
All that is needed is to exterminate all greedy people. ;-)

mashimaro
06-11-2002, 04:05 PM
I'm using Ihug at the moment and I have 5 email address free from them so what I do is I have a personal one that I only send to friends and set up another account something like "signuponly@ihug.co.nz" for online register to forums, enquires, download registrations...etc.

Once I registered I don't even bother to check or read that account anymore... after a while ... I'll just delete the whole account altogether and create another one like "signuponly2@ihug.co.nz" .. and so on ..

:D

vk_dre
06-11-2002, 04:11 PM
thats quite ingenious Mashimaro. Good idea, i might try that aswell. :D

E.ric
06-11-2002, 08:30 PM
>
> Why doesn't everyone just use digital certificates?
> Hence eliminating spammers


I just delete digital certificate Emails, what if they were to carry a digital virus?

As I keep saying Internet has given me a wealth of information to read, why should I open one more Email to read, just to get a virus.

roofus
06-11-2002, 08:57 PM
> >
> > Why doesn't everyone just use digital certificates?
>
> > Hence eliminating spammers
>
>
> I just delete digital certificate Emails, what if
> they were to carry a digital virus?
>
> As I keep saying Internet has given me a wealth of
> information to read, why should I open one more Email
> to read, just to get a virus.
>
Yea better not use email cause it might carry virus's. Infact better not even have a computer connected to the internet cause of virus's. but hold on that wont stop them so i might as well not have a computer at all!!!

Baldy
06-11-2002, 09:50 PM
> > I have Hotmail / Netscape / Yahoomail accounts and
> would be lucky to get 5 spam emails per week.
>
> OK Baldy, you've got to share the secret of your
> success not :)

Crozier:
All I know is, when I download anything, or sign up for something I want, I spend a little extra time reading the form and MAKE SURE that I don't tick anything that will put me on unwanted mailing lists - and eventually put my email addy on a spamers list.
All I am saying is be a bit careful and you will save yourself some grief.
Oh, and don't remove yourself from mailing lists by clicking the "remove me" link. Thats an open invitation to the spammers that your addy exists.
BALDY:-)

Baldy
06-11-2002, 10:00 PM
Another thing I just thought of was, if you send a funny email to someone who on-fwds it, your email addy can be visible.

Same with those rediculous "Bill Gates will send you a $100 for every email you on-fwd. They would be excellent addy fodder for spammers.

Thats if spammers have programs to capture address' from emails that is

Clueless
06-11-2002, 10:09 PM
one day people will learn what the "bcc" feild is for, and then spammers won't get so many address
we might also see world peace and...........................

.Clueless

John Grieve
07-11-2002, 09:44 AM
Lately I have got so sick of spam that I have started doing the following. I track the mailserver thats sending the spam then I send the company resposible for the mailserver the following message.

"I have the address of your mailserver. I live in New Zealand where we have no hacker laws yet. If I recieve another piece of spam from your server I will knock it offline and keep it offline till I get taken off your spam list"

Surprisingly this works quite often

Chilling_Silence
07-11-2002, 09:51 AM
Well, I dont generally get much spam, maybe one a month, and im serious, but yesterday I got one virus email to my hotmail nbox, and then checking it this morning, i had 2 waiting, and while I've been online (Maybe an hour) I've received 7 more... and Its happened before, I was getting about 2 an hour of the w32.yaha@mm or somthing like that, and so i ditched that mail account, asking abuse@hotmail what could be done and they said nothing could be done.

Some help they were. At least I had a person reply, and look over my mail message and not a bot, which was of little comfort though. damn viruses.... get an antiviral solution and update once in a while, that virus was first found about the 15th june this year, c'mon, it wouldnt kill ya to update once every 3 months even/!?!?!?!

wintertide
07-11-2002, 11:25 AM
i used to get over 150 emails a day, and all spam... blocked up my old email account with hotmail so i created another account and asked the people i trusted with my address to use only that one... and to send emails to me using bcc... works quite well.
i have another account which i recieve all my other newsletters and pressf1 notifications. anything i dont want to get, i put the domain name of the address in my junk mail filter, gets rid of all the emails from one domain which is good for multiple spamming campaigns from the same domain :D

Chilling_Silence
07-11-2002, 12:13 PM
I agree... A hotmail addy for use ase a spam address is quite a good idea if you ask me! I've got one myself, its worked for about the past 6-7 (As long as Ive had it) but now there's viruses coming to my main one... I'm just blocking them all!